Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.

[SCOTU]

Yo ragingasian I like your avatar lots.....SWEETNESS. BTW did you draw/color that in yourself?

Also.....yo scotu you say you need to do it after the 5th frame.....or on the sixth...can't you just interrupt the jump animation with a shine...isn't that the concept cuz you're making it out to be much harder than it actually is.

Well, you can, but if you don't input it to come out on exactly the 6th frame, you won't land on the ground in the lag time, so you'll be stuck in the air, not the ground.

 

[0m3n5150]

i wouldnt call myself a noob, but im definately not a pro. i would like to know how you can shine so fast. every time i try, i have to wait a bit until it lets me use something else... is there some sort of shine cancel you can do that i have overlooked?
thanks in advance

 

[SCOTU]

if you are talking about double shining / multishining, don't worry about it. It's mostly for flash and show. You jump. then you shine. and land during the lag. It's a frame perfect thing. Called Multishining. I can't count how many times i've explained how to do it, or frame counts involved with it, so you can use the search function if you really want to know. Or look at one of the last 7 pages, i probably explain it several times.

 

[Repryx]

Simple Jump out of the shine Easy and Like Scotu Said Multishinig IS mostly for show but its Priceless When Pillaring Ilike to use it but Only when Im loose Because it is VERY easy to miss it and ruin your Pillar

 

[SCOTU]

I want some advice for my falco before FC, My falco is lacking the crazy **** my fox has, but i want it to do well anyway, so here it is, please help me make this sh*t better.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5534443618643628161

Thanks.

 

[darkchrono_09]

question about edge teching. Do i hit l/r right when i get hit or do i have to wait a bit before/after i get hit?

 

[clowsui]

vary stage returns a bit more; i know its a peach but i noticed a few situations where you could've done something different (i.e. ~38 secs; could've ledge drop - walljump - phantasm'd or ledge drop - grab - lhdl all as fast as you can; ~1:13 lhdl - fsmash - nair would've sent her right off the edge)
more nairs, it's a bit risky on fod but nair is quick and has good enough power...more tilts, too; fod makes it hard but jabs/utilt/ftilt would help a bit XP
overall it's a solid falco, just don't try to play as conservatively
for fc i'd say you should friendly people using falco, but use cf and fox for main matches? but i'm not too good at falco, so i shouldn't say anything XD

 

[DaShizWiz]

Scotu, your falco should use more shine combos. Mostly all of your combos are aerials which isn't a bad thing. But shine combos are better, it keeps them in the air and going back and forth so they don't have much control. And your falco is not that fast. I think you should quickin your pace. When they're shielding. Do Shine, Nair shine nair and repeat. Its very hard for them to shield grab you out of that. That alwas works really well on Marth aswell. And if you don't feel like pressuring they're shield. While they're shielding approach with a Nair, then shine, then just jump cancel grab out of the shine. It works really good and most people don't expect it.

 

[lexxil]

I want some advice for my falco before FC, My falco is lacking the crazy **** my fox has, but i want it to do well anyway, so here it is, please help me make this sh*t better.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5534443618643628161

Thanks.

What I see is...

Work un your survival DI ...
You always (often) jumped of the edge, peach attacked you, no rejump, falco is dead...

And get more speed, for example, fast falling every ****ing **** ^^
Your laser game should get more flexible

 

[Adi]

Hehe, yeah I agree with shiz, JC grab out of shine is a really underused tactic. Anyways, to add on to his post I noticed that you shielded and rolled a lot when you were on the platforms. Was that because you were trying to waveland or because you were nervous? In any case there's no need to play defensive on the platforms, you're aerials will outprioritize hers from above so don't be so passive. I would also have liked to have seen a lot more lasers, espicially vs. a Peach. Although the platforms can screw it up, when they're high you can stand under them and camp until they jump, at which point you can catch them. I found this to be a very effective strategies but I'm sure Falco's like Shiz's will tell you differently since they're a lot more aggressive than I am.

 

[dReAMCloUd - Assault K 40]

JC grab outta shine is definitely more effective with fox. Just the two cents.

 

[Handorin]

Good thing this is a falco forum then, dreamcloud.

Another thing I do that gets people is laser approach, then they expect you to shffl dair/shine, but you run and grab them instead.

 

[SCOTU]

question about edge teching. Do i hit l/r right when i get hit or do i have to wait a bit before/after i get hit?

You hit L/R within 20 frames before being hit (subract hitlag from this). You can't press L/R during hitlag or you will miss the tech guaranteed. unless you SDI into the edge and hit L/R that frame.

vary stage returns a bit more; i know its a peach but i noticed a few situations where you could've done something different (i.e. ~38 secs; could've ledge drop - walljump - phantasm'd or ledge drop - grab - lhdl all as fast as you can; ~1:13 lhdl - fsmash - nair would've sent her right off the edge)
more nairs, it's a bit risky on fod but nair is quick and has good enough power...more tilts, too; fod makes it hard but jabs/utilt/ftilt would help a bit XP
overall it's a solid falco, just don't try to play as conservatively
for fc i'd say you should friendly people using falco, but use cf and fox for main matches? but i'm not too good at falco, so i shouldn't say anything XD

Yeah, watching that match i didn't mix up my edge returns much. Thanks for the suggestions.

Scotu, your falco should use more shine combos. Mostly all of your combos are aerials which isn't a bad thing. But shine combos are better, it keeps them in the air and going back and forth so they don't have much control. And your falco is not that fast. I think you should quickin your pace. When they're shielding. Do Shine, Nair shine nair and repeat. Its very hard for them to shield grab you out of that. That alwas works really well on Marth aswell. And if you don't feel like pressuring they're shield. While they're shielding approach with a Nair, then shine, then just jump cancel grab out of the shine. It works really good and most people don't expect it.

Do i combo peach with just a dair>shine>bair, or do i go all marthstyle with a dair>shine>DJ dair>utilt>stuff? Nairshine pillaring? never heard of it really, i'll have to try it. Why exactly is this better than normal dair pillaring against peach/ marth?
I know you're disappointed in my falco, because i've got no tech skill compared to my fox, I can't combo too well, my laser game is ok at best, and i overall just jump around like a moron spamming high priority attacks.

Any good suggestions for specifically speeding up my falco? or is it just an overall pace thing?

Hehe, yeah I agree with shiz, JC grab out of shine is a really underused tactic. Anyways, to add on to his post I noticed that you shielded and rolled a lot when you were on the platforms. Was that because you were trying to waveland or because you were nervous? In any case there's no need to play defensive on the platforms, you're aerials will outprioritize hers from above so don't be so passive. I would also have liked to have seen a lot more lasers, espicially vs. a Peach. Although the platforms can screw it up, when they're high you can stand under them and camp until they jump, at which point you can catch them. I found this to be a very effective strategies but I'm sure Falco's like Shiz's will tell you differently since they're a lot more aggressive than I am.

Shine grabbing is really underused, I'll have to add that to my falco's game as well. I didn't notice the rolling on platforms much. When i want to waveland, i waveland (or airdodge through it).

JC grab outta shine is definitely more effective with fox. Just the two cents.

I use this technique way more w/ fox, something i'm trying to work into my fox strategy is mixing it up between shinegrabbing and doubleshine>jc grab.

Good thing this is a falco forum then, dreamcloud.

Another thing I do that gets people is laser approach, then they expect you to shffl dair/shine, but you run and grab them instead.

I know a guy who used to main falco and would do this a lot. Yeah, i should use it more.




Thanks for all the help guys, hopefully i'll work this into my style on saturday, so it'll be ready by FC.

 

[Secks.]

Yeah, FoD isn't a great stage for Falco especially against Peach. There are certain characters you definetly want to laser spam and Peach is one of them. Although you can't laser spam often on FoD, take advatange while the platforms are high enough to do so. I tend to stay away from neutral airs and go for simple down air and multishines. Also, try to stay above the platforms themselves. Its easy to get caught in a down smash by a peach when you try and hit from below. What I find effective is doing the quick l-cancled ariel onto a platform and into another quick l-canceled ariel below the platform into a u-tilt or w/e you want. Still not sure if thats quicker than the Isai drop don't think it is, but its fast enough to be effective and much easier. FoD gives Peach a better advantage. You'll want to always play conservative against a Peach via laser spaming ect. I always ban FoD for the simple fact that it gives other charcters big advantages over Falco because you lose the ability to laser spam/keep your distance.

 

[Miharu]

utilt combos work fine on Peach.

I'd actually prefer FoD over YS against peach because the odd platforms make it easier to pull off dair chains on Peach. It's also a bit better for spacing lasers, as opposed to YS.

Also, how do you play against Pikachu? Just lost to one a week ago at a biweekly.

Hydrokirby (Falco) vs AfroJustin (Pikachu)
Hydrokirby (Falco) vs AfroJustin (Pikachu) 2
Hydrokirby (Falco) vs AfroJustin (Pikachu) 3

 

[SCOTU]

Well, I won't ban FoD because falco isn't great there, i main fox, 2nd CF, and if counterpicked w/ FoD, i won't pick falco, well actually i did in this match, but that was for a challenge.

*watches Hydro Kirby's vids, and recalls stuff against Pikachu*

You've got the gist of how to play against a pika, like fsmash edgegaurding, just make sure to not get grabbed by the edge, cause more aggressive gimpers will kill you.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=10&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=5
http://video.google.com/videoplay?d...=10&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=6
Now, I never beat anther's pika w/ falco, but this is how i try the matchup.

 

[Force Frontal by Chicken]

SHL's stop Pika's quick attack so if you are good with lasers it is fun to see how many times you can prevent Pika from getting on the edge.

$5 says scotu throws left handed.

 

[SCOTU]

$5 says scotu throws left handed.

yeah... i throw w/ the control stick, not the c-stick... but what does that have to do w/ anything... and why did you guess that?...

 

[Force Frontal by Chicken]

**** yeah I guessed that. I am the ****.

And scotu... you owe me $5 now.

Good Day



Anther's pika is so good.

 

[SCOTU]

Uhm. no. i didn't bet against you. but technically, i throw downward w/ c-stick. so if anything, i'd only owe you $4. which i dont. but, i'll MM you at FC if you're going (i have no idea what state you live in).

 

[Force Frontal by Chicken]

I'm going but you have to find me first, this will be a game.

 

[Anther]

Against Pika, run at him with SHL, approach with Dair, Shine out of it. Repeat about 60 times, and he'll be out of stocks while you have 0% damage.

(This is assuming its a 60 stock battle)

 

[Miharu]

Against Pika, run at him with SHL, approach with Dair, Shine out of it. Repeat about 60 times, and he'll be out of stocks while you have 0% damage.

(This is assuming its a 60 stock battle)

He can just DD back then run forward and grab/JC usmash.

 

[Anther]

I'm just coming in here trying to make falco players worse against Pikachu >.>

 

[Miharu]

I'm just coming in here trying to make falco players worse against Pikachu >.>

Gee, thanks. lol.

 

[Adi]

Meh, I think if you get your lasers lower you'll be fine ^^

 

[Junpappy]

How do you fight against Ice Climbers? Assuming that the stage set is the neutral stage set.....
I lost to an IC player who was attending a tourney for his first time.....(Not saying he was bad or anything. I just played horribly against him because I had no idea what to do)

 

[Gojira]

Don't forget that the light shield edge hog will also pressure marth to land on the stage instead of sweet spotting, which will make you grab the ledge and set you up for a ledge hopped back air during marth's up-b lag.

or you can do a drill shine back air like my falco does.

 

[Adi]

Raging, there's already a thread at the following link

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=108088

 

[Salaad]

How can I SHL against a Fow who will just use reflector to send them back at me?

Since I'm also pretty new to Falco (I use Marth unless against Fox). How do you Ledge hop double laser or >B. (Sorry if I sound like a noob)

 

[Fallen C]

you can shoot a low laser and then sh over it when it comes back at you and then hit them with whatever.

when hanging on the ledge, hit down and then jump and then hit b very quickly.

 

[SCOTU]

Try not shooting at their shine. if they're just standing there waiting for you to shoot, don't.
for LHDL, it's all about the speed at which you press b after jumping, not about how quickly you jump. In fact, you should wait a little before jumping to get level lasers just above the ground. An easy way to do it is to slide your thumb from y>bb.
I'm guessing your third question is how to ledge hop illusion? You let go of the edge, jump, and quickly press side b. That's it.

 

[Salaad]

Thank's guys, I can Ledge hop illusion now but the Ledge Hop Double laser needs some practice. xD

Btw, it's kinda hard not shooting but SHL is a habit, but I'm gonna break it. Cold Turkey.

 

[DaShizWiz]

Thanks for everyone thats been helping others out(Especially Scotu, I see alot of his posting helping others out )

BTW, just got back from a tournament yesterday. People who are interested in seeing matches of DaShizWiz vs Forward should check it out. He was in Florida for the tournament.

70 people entered. When the matches come out I'll let you guys know. Right now some matches are up from the tournament which are in the Tournament Videos section under LTEC2. Check it out.

 

[Pye]

Hey Shiz. I haven't been in here in a while, lol. I have a quick noob question.

I've heard from many good Falco players that it's a good idea to try approaching with a shffled nair to shine instead of a dair. Why is this? What advantage does using nair give you that it's worth mentioning?

 

[SCOTU]

I've actually wondered the same... i've always guessed it was becuase it comes out quicker and has more frontal priority, but that doesn't really seem to justify using it too often, so I'd appreciate that clarification too shiz. Thanks.
*goes to check out LTEC2 vids*

 

[Miharu]

I've always wondered about that as well, but it does seem easier to shffl nairs on an opponent's shield. Probably due to the fact that it's a bit easier to fastfall an nair on someone shield. Also might have something to do with how long the hitbox of nair stays out. Anyone want to clarify?

 

[Teczer0]

hey shiz idk if any1 asked this already (sry it jus takes too long to look thro 100+ pages of stuff) but wat do u think is a good counterpick wit falco as in like where forward mains falco and then counterpicks shiek u know???

like do u jus main falco then counterpick fox? cuz i used to play falco way back when and my bro's falco kinda inspired me to play falco (prob cuz he watches u and forward like all the time )

also in your opinion how useful is JC shining like alot i dont think i see forward do it but u tend to make people do irrational moves when u do it to others.

btw u tend to double jump more than most players... wat advantages do u see in it besides when people jump into u to often?

lol i asked too many question lol anyway on a side note im tryin to plan to go to LTEC so maybe i can c u there

on a side not i wuz very sad to see u lose to drephen i mean he is a great player and all but i thought u had it and wuz gonna win it o well ure too good (btw im talkin bout pound 2 lol)

 

[Pye]

hey shiz idk if any1 asked this already (sry it jus takes too long to look thro 100+ pages of stuff) but wat do u think is a good counterpick wit falco as in like where forward mains falco and then counterpicks shiek u know???

like do u jus main falco then counterpick fox? cuz i used to play falco way back when and my bro's falco kinda inspired me to play falco (prob cuz he watches u and forward like all the time )

also in your opinion how useful is JC shining like alot i dont think i see forward do it but u tend to make people do irrational moves when u do it to others.

btw u tend to double jump more than most players... wat advantages do u see in it besides when people jump into u to often?

lol i asked too many question lol anyway on a side note im tryin to plan to go to LTEC so maybe i can c u there

on a side not i wuz very sad to see u lose to drephen i mean he is a great player and all but i thought u had it and wuz gonna win it o well ure too good (btw im talkin bout pound 2 lol)

I can answer a few of those questions.

Counterpicks are determined by who your opponent is using. If you're having trouble against a Marth, for example, and you have a solid Shiek, you can counterpick her. My secondary character to Falco is Marth, personally.

As for doubleshines, they aren't particularly useful, but they look **** cool (and they do actually have their uses if you can do them fluently enough. See prosmashertim, though Falco's doubleshines aren't anywhere near as good as Fox's).

As for the doublejumping, I can't really answer, but I think it's just a playstyle. Some players like using doublejump mindgames more then others. Unless you're talking about like an immediate doublejump out of shine, to combo fastfallers? That's because a doublejump like that is actually a little lower then a longjump, so you can FF it earlier and come back down with the dair sooner.

 

[Teczer0]

well yea i know that counterpicking in general is about wat characters u dont like to face but i wanna know wat other characters does he think r good along wit a falco main u know? for example im hesitant to use falco sheik like forward cuz he seems to have problems wit IC's(match up wise anyway) but i dont wanna jus counterpick for jus ONE character cuz if thats the case ill pick some1 that jus does awful vs like peach and counterpick YL(also im not chu lol it wuz an example)

about the double shine i heard alot of people sayin it aint all that useful but if i think about it shiz uses it alot(maybe cuz he can do it easily idk) well watever jus wondering if itll b worth investing time into