Cinder
Smash Master
^Nope...I think Fox can, but Falco's has too much lag...
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Who needs help with Combos, Damages, Advanced Tactics for Falco, etc.
- Thread starter DaShizWiz
- Start date
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
i think the place where my falco needs the most work right now is with shield breaking. ive got a friend who spams shield grabs so ive been trying to work on beating him to the punch. a technique ive seen other falcos use and one that i think would be realy useful is the one where they shine and JC it, and then shine again before leaving the ground. this isnt limited to just two shines before the third one cant be JCed, so i need to learn it. i know the timing of it since i can do it when i change the position of my hands so my right one lies face down on the controller, but its too hard to switch on the fly. i was just looking for any advice on how some of you pull this off with just the thumb. i use x to jump btw, and it would be really hard to change that at this time. thanks
Enzyme
Smash Apprentice
It's not that hard to change for one technique. You just need to get it into your muscle memory, and most people do use either Y or Up. You don't need to change, it's definitely doable with x, you just need to work on getting faster fingers.
With Up you can just sort of "flick" it up then down again, and with Y you can slide from Y to B without hitting other buttons.
In the end it is just a matter of being fast enough. Practice practice, good luck.
With Up you can just sort of "flick" it up then down again, and with Y you can slide from Y to B without hitting other buttons.
In the end it is just a matter of being fast enough. Practice practice, good luck.
Adi
Smash Lord
You don't need to learn how to multishine to beat someone's shield grab if you L-cancel your Dair into a shine properly.
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
I'm actually a Marth main, and a Kirby Low Tier Main. Both characters of mine are pretty solid. I wanted to try out Falco. Kirby and Marth have pretty fast jumps, so their wavedash are easy. I can wavedash 80% of the time with Falco. When it comes to waveshining (D-air to Shine To WD) my fingers get messed up and I usually mess up. Wave dashing is crazyishly (Is that even a word?) slower than my usual characters. Even I don't even have trouble with most other characters, who I can wavedash 99% of the time. Just Falco (Not even Bowser) I have trouble WDing on? Any tips, pointers? I'm pretty sure my Falco is half way solid. Maybe if I could speed up or even WD on him, I could be one step closer on becoming a solid Falco. I'm not trying to be noobish like "OMG WDing ISH 2 HARD". It's just a habit I have to get rid of, moving hands faster for faster hoppers and hands slower for slower hoppers.
HOLY CRAP! Did I just answer my own question by saying that I have to get ride of that habit?!?!? Anyways could anyone explain to me a technique they've used to to move their hands slower for Falco's wavedash, though it's not that slow.......
Greatly Appreciated..... *Does The Thumbs Up (b-'_'-)b*
HOLY CRAP! Did I just answer my own question by saying that I have to get ride of that habit?!?!? Anyways could anyone explain to me a technique they've used to to move their hands slower for Falco's wavedash, though it's not that slow.......
Greatly Appreciated..... *Does The Thumbs Up (b-'_'-)b*
Falco Rising
Smash Cadet
umm...when i SHL the laser alawys seems 2 go over the other character?!? is that becasue im usin the Y button 2 short hop rather then x or im just not doin it coreetctly?!?
some1 plzz get back
some1 plzz get back
Cinder
Smash Master
^You're just shooting too high...using Y or X has no effect...just time it better, and fastfall it...
Cereal Rabbit
Smash Lord
Don't shoot to early. It's a bad habit because most people want to shoot fast and fast means earlier, but faster fall and wait a few splits of a second.
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
actually, cereal, i was a sheik main, where i learned to WD 100% of the time, so i feel your pain. it did take a while to get falcos wD and waveshine to 100%. in addition to just saying practice it more, i had one thing working for me. i WDed with sheik with R, and when i went to falco i changed to L. that cut down the muscle memory and made it like a new action altogether. i definitely feel L is the right button to WD with falco, but maybe thats just in how i hold the controller. i had to grip the right side harder to wd with R which slowed down SHL and shffls (again, that may be back to me using x to jump). either way, believe me, when you nail falcos you'll have everyone in the game. i guess if you use R you might try L but whether it works better is completely dependent on how you hold the controller and what other buttons you use.
come to think of it, there was one more thing that helped me a lot. with shiek WD was entirely one motion, almost simultaneous, and thats what made it so hard to learn falcos. but falcos is like a two step. think of it as what it literally is; a jump, and a air dodge. try to actually make two motions, a jump or SH, and a wavelanding motion. in time it will become one motion but for now it might be easier to think of it as two. anyway, just a thought. hope it helps.
as for my previous question, enzyme, i don't get to see people controllers! do you think any pros make such a serious switch in game? i can recall one time i saw shiz do like 20 consecutive shines on the ground without WDing down as a taunt, and i can see how he could have easily changed there, but midgame is a bit much for me. i actually had considered changing the way i played all the time to a manner in which my right hand was face down on the controller, with my pointer finger on b and ring on X. it worked amazingly fast, and everything was fluid, but it would take forever to get used to. what do you think?
come to think of it, there was one more thing that helped me a lot. with shiek WD was entirely one motion, almost simultaneous, and thats what made it so hard to learn falcos. but falcos is like a two step. think of it as what it literally is; a jump, and a air dodge. try to actually make two motions, a jump or SH, and a wavelanding motion. in time it will become one motion but for now it might be easier to think of it as two. anyway, just a thought. hope it helps.
as for my previous question, enzyme, i don't get to see people controllers! do you think any pros make such a serious switch in game? i can recall one time i saw shiz do like 20 consecutive shines on the ground without WDing down as a taunt, and i can see how he could have easily changed there, but midgame is a bit much for me. i actually had considered changing the way i played all the time to a manner in which my right hand was face down on the controller, with my pointer finger on b and ring on X. it worked amazingly fast, and everything was fluid, but it would take forever to get used to. what do you think?
Falco Rising
Smash Cadet
alright thnkx cuz the ppl tht i play wit told me tht i have 2 start usin x but i guess i dont have 2 but thnkx again
Enzyme
Smash Apprentice
There are people out there who use "The Claw," but the vast majority don't, and consider it a bit silly.
However, if that's what you like doing, then go for it. Everyone's style is different, and if it works, do it.
However, if that's what you like doing, then go for it. Everyone's style is different, and if it works, do it.
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
as it turns out, it doesn't.. too unstable. speed isn't worth it when everything else takes a hit.
i did try using up and y though. not for everything, but just for specific things, and it worked well. since they were things i wasn't already doing, it wasn't hard to just give a new tech a new button.
thanks for the help though.
i did try using up and y though. not for everything, but just for specific things, and it worked well. since they were things i wasn't already doing, it wasn't hard to just give a new tech a new button.
thanks for the help though.
finalcloud13
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
- Messages
- 99
I need some advice against my friend's Sheik. He evades all of my attacks by rolling and dash grabs me a lot and hits me hard with ftilt and utilt. He also dtilts and I get owned by it because it has good range and when I hit him he gets the crouch cancel and continues pummeling me. All in all his range is greater and attacks seem to be more spammable. The needles stop me from recovering too, any way around this?
And, how badly is Pillaring affected if you miss fastfalling and L-Cancelling the dair?
Also, X vs. Y. Which do you recommend I use to jump? I've been using X, I don't know why.
And, how badly is Pillaring affected if you miss fastfalling and L-Cancelling the dair?
Also, X vs. Y. Which do you recommend I use to jump? I've been using X, I don't know why.
Cinder
Smash Master
^I haven't gotten used to Sheik, so I can't give you any tips there...
Pillaring becomes almost useless if you don't L-cancel...
It doesn't matter if you use X or Y...whichever works best for you...
Pillaring becomes almost useless if you don't L-cancel...
It doesn't matter if you use X or Y...whichever works best for you...
finalcloud13
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
- Messages
- 99
It's best to jump cancel a Shine by pressing up?
How about if you want to Waveshine? Still better to come out of the Shine with up?
How about if you want to Waveshine? Still better to come out of the Shine with up?
Cinder
Smash Master
^Idk...I guess you could do it either way, but I'd just wait for a more knowledgeable Falco user to answer that one...
finalcloud13
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
- Messages
- 99
I don't understand how to laser on the edge. Everytime I shoot my laser, Falco doesn't grab back on and dies.
Is this right:
While hanging, press down and immediately jump and press B?
Is this right:
While hanging, press down and immediately jump and press B?
xyouxarexuglyx2
Smash Lord
Yeah, that's correct. You're probably taking too long to jump, taking too long to press B, or both. Taking too long to jump makes it so that you don't go as high, which means you have less time to let the laser's lag wear off. Taking too long to press B makes it so that the lag goes away later (because it starts later)
finalcloud13
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
- Messages
- 99
Thanks for the reply. Wow, so if I'm too slow that I can't even do 1 laser, I wonder how much faster I'll have to be to do a double laser D:
You roll to the edge, and while you're rolling hold Z to light shield, also hold towards the edge. This is an edge hogging trick against marth, and a few other less mentionable characters.
It works by ASDI and some other interesting things.
It works by ASDI and some other interesting things.
Big_R
Smash Champion
I did it to Drew's Shiek yesterday. and he said it wasn't possible. scrub...:D the light shield trick that is.
teh_spamerer
Smash Master
knightpraetor
Smash Champion
- Joined
- Oct 20, 2005
- Messages
- 2,321
why do i always see falco's ccing fox's dair into shine? does that mean the fox was trying for something like downair to grab?
do falco players normally just always try to shine if the dair connects? after all i don't see why you wouldn't; in that situation i guess you should always be trying to either queue a spotdodge, shine, or roll (will roll get you away before the grab? i'm guessing it should)
do falco players normally just always try to shine if the dair connects? after all i don't see why you wouldn't; in that situation i guess you should always be trying to either queue a spotdodge, shine, or roll (will roll get you away before the grab? i'm guessing it should)
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
finalcloud, imo...
pillaring needs l cancel and fast fall, ESPECIALLY on lighter characters and those that fall slowly.
i use x too. seems to be slightly weaker at a few things but works fine. dont forget you can use both.
the reason why it might be slightly faster to JC shine with up would be that it doesnt require the right thumb, so the right one can move straight to attack. if you intend to catch the opponent on the way up from the shine ( or at really high damages, hit them at all) then up should be faster. and for waveshines, since L/R and a direction cant be pressed right after jump, you should be able to use any jump method without costing you anything. having said that, people are successful with any combination for these techs, but some will definitely be easier to pull off than others so try them all. (you can jc different ways in different situations if need be)
as for the laser, im assuming your talking about ledgehop double laser? if so, you cannot grab the ledge again, you have to land on the stage. the timing is rough too, so press down to fall, jump (seems more common to use up here) and then nuetral b. as long as you hit b again before the laser is over to shoot the second one, you can push forward to move onto the stage without worrying about doing the forward b phantasm. as for the ledgehop single laser, it is possible to grab the ledge after, but you end up shooting way above their heads if they are on the ground and the timing is extremely precise. it also would make you extremely vulnerable to your shiek friend and a fair.
hope something helps you out
pillaring needs l cancel and fast fall, ESPECIALLY on lighter characters and those that fall slowly.
i use x too. seems to be slightly weaker at a few things but works fine. dont forget you can use both.
the reason why it might be slightly faster to JC shine with up would be that it doesnt require the right thumb, so the right one can move straight to attack. if you intend to catch the opponent on the way up from the shine ( or at really high damages, hit them at all) then up should be faster. and for waveshines, since L/R and a direction cant be pressed right after jump, you should be able to use any jump method without costing you anything. having said that, people are successful with any combination for these techs, but some will definitely be easier to pull off than others so try them all. (you can jc different ways in different situations if need be)
as for the laser, im assuming your talking about ledgehop double laser? if so, you cannot grab the ledge again, you have to land on the stage. the timing is rough too, so press down to fall, jump (seems more common to use up here) and then nuetral b. as long as you hit b again before the laser is over to shoot the second one, you can push forward to move onto the stage without worrying about doing the forward b phantasm. as for the ledgehop single laser, it is possible to grab the ledge after, but you end up shooting way above their heads if they are on the ground and the timing is extremely precise. it also would make you extremely vulnerable to your shiek friend and a fair.
hope something helps you out
finalcloud13
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2007
- Messages
- 99
Thanks for the reply anotherdeadcow, it has helped a lot.
As for the ledgehop laser though... I can't even do a single one and grab the ledge again. Someone said before that it must be because I'm too slow, maybe that's it. I think maybe I should try pressing down, up, B instead of down, Y, b so that my right hand can shoot the laser as early as possible.
I also tried playing with Y as my main jump button instead of X and now I think I'm getting comfortable with it. I do notice that I can shorthop more consistently and the B button is slightly in better reach.
Thanks again.
As for the ledgehop laser though... I can't even do a single one and grab the ledge again. Someone said before that it must be because I'm too slow, maybe that's it. I think maybe I should try pressing down, up, B instead of down, Y, b so that my right hand can shoot the laser as early as possible.
I also tried playing with Y as my main jump button instead of X and now I think I'm getting comfortable with it. I do notice that I can shorthop more consistently and the B button is slightly in better reach.
Thanks again.
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
as for the grabbing the ledge after single laser, the timing is extremely exact. i was not able to do it consistently without changing the position of my hand, and like i said, its not possible to shoot it low enough to hit someone standing on the ground, making its uses extremely limited. most of the time it will look like hes done shooting but still wont grab the ledge in which case you barely missed the timing (his lag wore off right below the ledge). as for how to jump in this situation, somewhere on this thread shiz himself said he uses up on the control stick, so id recommend trying his advice and seeing if that works before trying anything else (i tried it too, X still worked better for me...)
as for the X/Y part, i personally use both. to cancel shine with a jump or a SH (or a WD for that matter) i use X, by sliding my thumb across a to hit X. this works fine in this direction, since A does nothing while in a shine, but it does not work the other way (sliding from X to B) since in a jump, A DOES do something. for those situations (like many JC shines without leaving the ground), i use Y. you can slide from B to Y or from Y to B without hitting A. i also use up, but only in two situations: the ledge hop double laser, and to shine in the air, JC, and hit someone on the way up from the shine. the latter has a lot of uses for finishing, and if near the edge you can dair for a kill (its less expected than a normal dair) in low damages, or you can bair for a kill at higher percents. its also a good thing to use on fastfallers like fox when they get to the percentage where a dair hitting them on the ground gives them some air (around short hop range). ex: dair, l cancel, SH to catch up to them while they are stunned, shine, control stick up JC, c stick bair or dair.
as for the X/Y part, i personally use both. to cancel shine with a jump or a SH (or a WD for that matter) i use X, by sliding my thumb across a to hit X. this works fine in this direction, since A does nothing while in a shine, but it does not work the other way (sliding from X to B) since in a jump, A DOES do something. for those situations (like many JC shines without leaving the ground), i use Y. you can slide from B to Y or from Y to B without hitting A. i also use up, but only in two situations: the ledge hop double laser, and to shine in the air, JC, and hit someone on the way up from the shine. the latter has a lot of uses for finishing, and if near the edge you can dair for a kill (its less expected than a normal dair) in low damages, or you can bair for a kill at higher percents. its also a good thing to use on fastfallers like fox when they get to the percentage where a dair hitting them on the ground gives them some air (around short hop range). ex: dair, l cancel, SH to catch up to them while they are stunned, shine, control stick up JC, c stick bair or dair.
Adi
Smash Lord
Say wha? Lol, thanks I guess but I don't think I've helped people as much some of the other people in this thread. I try to play my part.
Gracen
Smash Cadet
I use to play sheik, and I picked up falco like a month and a half ago.....I can't say I have much trouble with falco that can't be fixed with time.....BUT....I am having an INCREDIBLE problem canceling out of my shine when it comes to crunch time.....has anybody had this problem when they first picked up falco?
Adi
Smash Lord
What's the problem, you're not pushing it too fast, or you're having trouble doing moves out of the shine?
Gracen
Smash Cadet
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
lai, you might be hitting jump too fast. the number of frames you have to wait before you JC it is different when it actually hits someone, so practicing JCing it solo doesnt mean that youll jump out of it when it hits someone.
just a thought, anyway. im not really 100% sure what you are asking...
just a thought, anyway. im not really 100% sure what you are asking...
Adi
Smash Lord
Yup, this something many people often overlook, the hit lag prevents you from jumping out immediately so you have to wait a couple frames before jumping.
Gracen
Smash Cadet
Actually...that never really crossed my mind.....I KNOW thats my problem.....thank you guys so much!
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
adi.. so its the hitlag that does that? since the hitlag increases with damage increase, does that mean that the JC time does too? i just ask because the difference between hitting and missing stood out so much, but i havent noticed anything related to damage percent.
or am i misinterpreting what you mean by hit lag?
or am i misinterpreting what you mean by hit lag?
anotherdeadcow
Smash Apprentice
and also while im at it adi, you had mentioned something earlier about dair to shine when i asked about multishine but i still get shield grabbed a lot and im wondering what really defines "properly". i asked him to try to SG me so i could work on it, but due to the lag on falco when the dair connects to the shield, he could usually get a grab it. the only way i could avoid this is forcing the dair to connect lower to the ground, adn he made sure to show me that he could easily connect with something else before the dair connected. i was just wondering what are the most efficient times to ff and to have the dair connect. he plays fox, btw.
thanks, and sorry for all the questions/double post adi
thanks, and sorry for all the questions/double post adi
You're either not fastfalling or L-cancelling correctly. It's pretty difficult to shield grab a Falco out of a pillar, and it must be done after the shine. I always thought it was because the shine wasn't cancellable in the first few frames, and not about the hitlag, but I don't think that it would increase with percentage.