Who else is worried Brawl might not be that good?

[Xsyven]

To sum up what Buzz was saying:

Dylan, you're stupid.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Ok, you know what? I've found a new forum for my brawl discussion. But just because you managed to piss me the hell off.

Please don't tell me you are basing this off the Nintendo World trailer. First off, trailers are never final. If you listen to the SmashCasts, you will learn that the trailer just prior to Melee's release was extremely different from the actual game. So, you are prejudging the game.

how ****ing stupid do you think I am? Hitlag was upped in the melee trailer and reduced in the final game, and expect the same for brawl. However, if fox is falling slowly, then I doubt that's gonna change.

Also, if there are '' low gravity'' levels, then thats just completly ******** for reasons I don't even have to explain.

And no I am basing this off the 15 second movie that was released with the release date, notice that after fox does his up B he falls a hideously slow pace. But yes he is in a space level.

Nintendo brings more balance to the game, and you say that it sucks more? It sounds like you are more of a Fox lover than a smash lover. If it is pointless then ignore it. Melee has plenty of pointless techniques, yet you love it.

How the heck do you know footstooling is gonna be balanced? Your optomism can be backed up the same way my pessimism can. They cant. Its speculation. You dont know anything for fact and thats what you're trying to nail me for, yet saying things like ''nintendo brings more balance to the game'' when you haven't even so much as seen a video of the technique being used.

And now dare you say Im more of a fox lover than a smashbros lover? Ive been playing smash for almost 8 years, fox has only been my main in melee for the past 2 months. I play all the characters by the way so you can take your little judgements elsewhere.

This is the worst reason of all. The competitive smash scene has thrived without wave-dashing. Not only was there a period where it didn't exist, Japanese players win all the time without wave-dashing. I cannot believe someone would avoid an entire game based on one little tactic.

I wouldn't win vs the best brawl players if I couldn't wavedash. Over the past few years it has become way too much of a habit for me in melee, I cant stop doing it if I want to

BUT do not think that I am a wavedash spammer. I actually am trying to dashdance more, but I always throw in random wavedashes for spacing

Wavedashing is probably six percent or less of all my in-game actions.

And I love falco, but what would he be without waveshining? Sure you can sh then double out of your shine or fulljump double out of your shine to chase a person who doesn't DI, but if they go left or right out of your shine, how are you going to techchase them to death?

Now take a look at the current state of Brawl. Every character is receiving special treatment just to look his or her best for the game; the graphics are amazing compared to what we've seen so far on the Wii. We have the DOJO giving us daily updates because Sakurai knows how important this game is to the community!

These things all give me hope for Brawl. But some of the updates have just been rubbing salt in the faces of competitive smashers. I sincerly doubt Im the only one pissed about footstooling and ZSS item nonsense.

WTF? You have proof of Captain Falcon being in the game? And he is what is keeping you hopeful about the game?

Well considering hes part of the original cast, I would bet you 6 trillion dollars he'll be in Brawl. No, I do not have proof, but Id seriously bet the collective souls of my family and unborn children with satan that Captain Falcon will be in brawl.

He is keeping me hopeful because he is one of my 3 mains that I am tournament ready with, and with him I do not need to wavedash. At all.

I do wavedash with falcon out of habbit, but I think WDing just doesnt work for him

Without wave-dashing, what does the game lose? And what about the supposed new "fast rolls" we have seen in the videos? Are those unworthy replacements?

Wow, you're actually asking me this? Cmon man, you know that a roll goes a set distance, and can't be attacked out of immediatly.

The wavedash allows you control over it's distance. By angling the stick a certain way for a perfect wavedash, and another for a stilted wavedash. the roll is a set distance. Unworthy replacement? Not a replacement at all, just a boosted up dodge-roll.

Wavedashing isn't about being invincible either, quite the opposite, its purely about maneuverability. Unless you ledgehop wavedash to recover, then you get a few frames of invincibility.

You are extremely provocative in the way you approach discussions, and you have a reputation for throwing any thread off topic. I visited several threads and noticed people complaining about your presence driving the discussion haywire. You do not do so hot at keeping to the topic.

Prove it. Seriously, point out one thread where I'm the reason the thread went off topic, and not the person who responded to me with things like :

OH MY GOD **** YOU HOW CAN YOU BOYCOTT BRAWL WITHOUT WAVEDASHING YOU HAVE NO LIFE, ANIKI DUN WAVEDESH, KEN IS CHEEP, UR GAY. etc etc etc..

when I had meerly stated my opinion. Yes, I remember the ZSS samus thread and how it was ''my fault'' it became a flame war.

But thats only because I was flamed. Why? Because I didn't like the update. I didn't say anything that should have offended anyone, but scrubs are whiney babies and think that whatever I say, Im going to force them to believe in too, just because I posted it online.

Does it make you happy that your thread had thousands of replies?

What a stupid question. No, quality over quantity. It made me happy that that thread had some of the best discussions of all time. I was there for all 400 pages of it. You weren't, so why don't you stop talking about things you didn't experience?

it was not the best thread ever

Yes it was. Who's with me? Oh thats right, a whole bunch of people who are so tired of these forums that after the closing of my we joined a new forum, and already have over 20 members in a week and more coming.

Trust me, theres way more than 20 of us though. Who are ''we''? You'd know darn right if you had been a part of my thread.

but the aspects you choose are so tiny and so specific that it's a real miracle that you like Melee at all.

Thats funny, because all the things I don't like about brawl, are things that have changed from melee.

Here lets qutoe me from six months ago :

Let me start by saying that I think Super Smash Brothers Melee, is PERFECT. It is an amazing game that I can play for 10 hours a day 1-3 times a week and never get bored of.

So how is it a miracle I like melee? I've loved smash since it came out and I play it every chance I get

I love this game with my heart and soul, I find it dispicable that you'd suggest otherwise meerly because I am nervous about the sequel.

To sum up what Buzz was saying:

Dylan, you're stupid.

Thanks oh so much.

Do you guys have any idea how much I hate you? Thank god almighty I have somewhere to go where sane people populate the forums, who won't flame me at every chance they get and look at my opinions under a microscope.

But I will never ever hesitate to defend myself against judgemental jerks.

 

[Gojira]

Lmfao

6. Invincibility during B moves?

Doesnt mario, Doc, luigi, bowser, falco, fox, marth, peach, shiek, and yoshi have "6. Invincibility during B moves?".....your an idiot.

If you re-read the thing on dojo, they are adding non-flinching qualities to the heavy characters. This is probably to help balance speed vs power....... seriously....WTF is wrong with that?

About your wavedash complaints.........I would not like to see it go, but if it does, so be it........we can play without wavedash.....

 

[chansen]

OMG, will the madness ever stop!?

What the hell guys, seriously, I have respect for the both of you. But this could easily be resolved in pms and i think your posts are scaring away non-experienced forum goers. Seriously, its starting to get out of hand.

 

[Takeshi245]

OMG, will the madness ever stop!?

What the hell guys, seriously, I have respect for the both of you. But this could easily be resolved in pms and i think your posts are scaring away non-experienced forum goers. Seriously, its starting to get out of hand.

They're just having a debate. If you want, sit back and watch.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Doesnt mario, Doc, luigi, bowser, falco, fox, marth, peach, shiek, and yoshi have "6. Invincibility during B moves?".....your an idiot.

No, I'm not. Point out one B move in the game (aside from shiek transforming) that you can't be hit during.

Especially mario, lets look at this

Up b : You can be fsmashed while doing this by any disjointed hitbox
forward b : you're not invincible
down b : you're not invincible
neutral b : projectile.

bowser :

up b : you be hit during this
forward b: works like a grab. You can be hit while doing this
neutral b : projectile, you can be hit
down b : lol I don't even have to point this out

Falco

Up b - you can be hit
forward b - you can be killed easily beyond belief if you do this the wrong way
down b - shine doesnt make you invincible, just comes out in one frame
neutral b - projectile

fox

Same thing

Peach

forward b - not invincible
up b - umbrella is disjointed. Peach isnt invincible
down b - turnips
neutral b - counter. Yes, you are ''invincible'' while doing this, but your timing has to be amazing. More often than not youll be hit during your counter.

Ok, theres one. down b with marth/roy and neutral b with peach offer ''invincibility'' for a small ammount of time. Ill admit. Nothing like ''HES NOT FLINCHING!!11'' though.

shiek/zelda

down b = invincibility while you transform. Also lag. Youll be grabbed.

Yoshi

yoshi is weird, hes got that glitch he can abuse to take no damage but its incredibly hard to do and by no means practical for most yoshi players

up b : nope
forward b : nope
down b : nope
neutral b : nope

If you re-read the thing on dojo, they are adding non-flinching qualities to the heavy characters. This is probably to help balance speed vs power....... seriously....WTF is wrong with that?.

The problem with that is giant characters shouldn't be slow. Why would you give a giant target less speed so that he couldnt evade attacks?

Ok sure, bowser is *supposed* to be a big, slow dragon. But if we learned anything from melee, bowser has a good moveset, but his lag and his speed are his problems.

I dont think this ''non flinching thing'' offers balance half as well as reduction of lag and increased speed for bowser.

About your wavedash complaints.........I would not like to see it go, but if it does, so be it........we can play without wavedash.....

Yup, Im not saying the game will suck for everyone without the wavedash, just that if it wasnt there, I wouldnt be able to compete with anyone who wasn't captain falcon. Personal feelings, purely.

 

[Adi]

Hah, this is starting to turn into a repeat of the first couple of pages of the other thread Dylan made, history repeats itself I guess..

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

And once again I can back up everything I'm saying.

I wonder what todays update will be....

I hope its peach.

And I hope to god they didnt get rid of her dsmash or something equally lame to please the scrubs.

 

[raphtmarqui]

BTW, isnt captain falcon pretty much confirmed since he has a symbol. I know symbols dont automatically mean a character will be in, but common now he was in the two previous games as well.

 

[Takeshi245]

BTW, isnt captain falcon pretty much confirmed since he has a symbol. I know symbols dont automatically mean a character will be in, but common now he was in the two previous games as well.

I also have a feeling that Captain Falcon's going to be in the game.

 

[Adi]

Lol @ people who think Captain Falcon might not be on the roster.

 

[MookieRah]

I wouldn't win vs the best brawl players if I couldn't wavedash. Over the past few years it has become way too much of a habit for me in melee, I cant stop doing it if I want to

I don't understand what you are saying man. If you can't stop doing wavedash just out of habbit then you will never be good at melee, cause you have to remove as many "habbits" from your game in order to be good. Instead of being stubborn you really need to just take a deep breath and rethink things.

How the heck do you know footstooling is gonna be balanced? Your optomism can be backed up the same way my pessimism can. They cant. Its speculation.

It's not optimism, it's actually pretty apparent why that helps balance things. In melee, only a handful of the cast has an aerial spike, but in brawl, every character will have some form of a spike, even if it is only the footstool jump.

As far as your thread goes, I tried to filter in and out, but for the most part I just saw spam about all sorts of stuff. I'm not saying it was devoid from good discussion, but that was definitely the minority. There are plenty of other threads that have engaging subjects with a lot of high quality posts but aren't 1000 pages worth. The problem with large threads is that people have to filter through all the crap and read the good stuff, or more reasonably jump right in and try to talk about the subject, which tends to lead to a lot of repeated arguments and the thread goes in circles.

 

[TheZizz]

The problem with that is giant characters shouldn't be slow. Why would you give a giant target less speed so that he couldnt evade attacks?

Ok sure, bowser is *supposed* to be a big, slow dragon. But if we learned anything from melee, bowser has a good moveset, but his lag and his speed are his problems.

I dont think this ''non flinching thing'' offers balance half as well as reduction of lag and increased speed for bowser.

From a balance standpoint, I agree that large characters have enough against them without also being slow. But a fast Bowser would just be a crime against all that is good and holy.

At first, the knockback resistance seems more like a compromise, a "necessary evil" in order to preserve the lumbering characters' identities. But again, if executed correctly it would not only help the character balance but it would be yet another move attribute to consider, another layer of depth, not to mention another distinction between the characters. All of which would not be provided with a simple across-the-board speed increase for the slower characters.

I'm not arguing that your alternative wouldn't be safer and easier for the designers. But where this game is concerned, I like risks. And I have faith.

And my immediate impression of what Sakurai said was that this resistance was not necessarily associated with B moves. I can imagine, for example, Bowser's f-smash in which the first few (or last few) frames before the smash give him resistance. Either way I'm pretty confident that whatever maneuver is given resistance will have their windows, just as a rolling dodge does all but guarantee your safety.

Having said that though, I do hope the resistance is designed in such a way that it could be capitalized upon. It might serve as a counter to a hit-and-run pinpricking opponent, who could in turn adapt to that by going on the defensive, spotdodging and punishing the resistance spammer. What good is resistance if there's nothing to resist after all. Unless of course the opponent switches it up... and so on.

 

[raphtmarqui]

From a balance standpoint, I agree that large characters have enough against them without also being slow. But a fast Bowser would just be a crime against all that is good and holy.

At first, the knockback resistance seems more like a compromise, a "necessary evil" in order to preserve the lumbering characters' identities. But again, if executed correctly it would not only help the character balance but it would be yet another move attribute to consider, another layer of depth, not to mention another distinction between the characters. All of which would not be provided with a simple across-the-board speed increase for the slower characters.

I'm not arguing that your alternative wouldn't be safer and easier for the designers. But where this game is concerned, I like risks. And I have faith.

And my immediate impression of what Sakurai said was that this resistance was not necessarily associated with B moves. I can imagine, for example, Bowser's f-smash in which the first few (or last few) frames before the smash give him resistance. Either way I'm pretty confident that whatever maneuver is given resistance will have their windows, just as a rolling dodge does all but guarantee your safety.

Having said that though, I do hope the resistance is designed in such a way that it could be capitalized upon. It might serve as a counter to a hit-and-run pinpricking opponent, who could in turn adapt to that by going on the defensive, spotdodging and punishing the resistance spammer. What good is resistance if there's nothing to resist after all. Unless of course the opponent switches it up... and so on.

I agree that the resistance thing would make more sense to balance out heavy characters rather than just making them faster. I mean they were slow in the first place for a reason.

 

[Xsyven]

Thanks oh so much.

Do you guys have any idea how much I hate you? Thank god almighty I have somewhere to go where sane people populate the forums, who won't flame me at every chance they get and look at my opinions under a microscope.

But I will never ever hesitate to defend myself against judgemental jerks.

Lololol.

I don't think you understand. When people think of an idiot Brawl speculation, they think of Dylan_Tnga.

The only reason you say things like this if for attention. Have your mom drive you to the doctor's office, and tell the nice doctor that you need some ritalin.


If that's not the problem, then you're disgustingly pessemistic. I'd reccomend suicide.

 

[raphtmarqui]

Lololol.

I don't think you understand. When people think of an idiot Brawl speculation, they think of Dylan_Tnga.

The only reason you say things like this if for attention. Have your mom drive you to the doctor's office, and tell the nice doctor that you need some ritalin.


If that's not the problem, then you're disgustingly pessemistic. I'd reccomend suicide.

lol

 

[Wolf_FTW]

ya it was really full of alot of spam

 

[Linari Sabre]

Umm. Dylan is only defending himself and his points. Now it comes to realize that he said that he wouldnt play the game competitively if there was no Wding but that just one of the things he said somewhere in these forums

Please stop attacking dylan I did once And I GOT OWNED PLEASE DONT LET ME RELIVE THOSE MOMENTS

 

[chansen]

Dylan is not to be fukced with. I mean seriously the guy's got some debate talent. But just let the debate go on. He doesn't need ritalin to calm down, he needs a bong rip, and a good pantera song wouldn't hurt either. Let them settle it, I tryed to interfere once too, it isn't worth it.

/Primal Concrete Sledge FTW!

 

[Gojira]

ignore this post net was farted up

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Dylan is not to be fukced with. I mean seriously the guy's got some debate talent.

You have got to be kidding me. Dylan has some of the worst debate skills I have ever seen. It is OK to have an opinion, but avoiding a whole game because of one missing tactic? If anything, that just goes to show how bad he is at Melee. And of course, he will come back with something like "I don't only wave-dash; I use tons of tactics!" This also works against him because then it establishes that his dislike of Brawl for lacking wave-dashing is completely irrational.

 

[psicicle]

I would prefer a brawl with WD than without WD.

About the invincible stuff... it really isn't practical invincibility. Sure, for 1 frame you are invincible, but has anybody got timing and prediction skills enough to ever use that frame? It's just stuff that looks cool in the perfect control vids and is pretty much impractical.

The only character that has flinch resistance that I can think of (besides CC) is yoshi during the second jump, which is completely reasonable because when you are hit you don't regain the second jump.

With the heavier characters being flinch resistant, I think that is supposed to have some practicality. I think that it is a good addition that makes the game a little more... realistic to the smash universe.

"What the heck are you smoking.....bowser is not supposed to be even DK fast....in all the mario games he has been slow and strong. now that i mention DK, he should even be slightly slower then he is, however he is noticebly weaker then ganondorf an bowser for the speed he has. Plain and simple, power characters should not be made faster to balance it......that is just stupid."

DK is roughly the same speed as ganon, I think. Ganon may even be faster, but ganondorf just has more power. I think that the slow characters could have been given some sort of "ganondorf"-like properties for balance. Ganon can definitely be used fast.

"It is OK to have an opinion, but avoiding a whole game because of one missing tactic? If anything, that just goes to show how bad he is at Melee."

Where is the logic? I could hate SSB64 all I want because it doesn't have a wavedash, it does not make me any worse at melee.

"And of course, he will come back with something like "I don't only wave-dash; I use tons of tactics!" This also works against him because then it establishes that his dislike of Brawl for lacking wave-dashing is completely irrational."

Using WD at the right time is not the same as WD spamming. If you use it at the right time, it can still be a large part of your game and make a difference. I'm trying to say here that you don't have to spam WD to make it a key part of your game. Quality over quantity in this case.

Lololol.

I don't think you understand. When people think of an idiot Brawl speculation, they think of Dylan_Tnga.

The only reason you say things like this if for attention. Have your mom drive you to the doctor's office, and tell the nice doctor that you need some ritalin.


If that's not the problem, then you're disgustingly pessemistic. I'd reccomend suicide.

Logical flaw here. It does not matter if his intentions were purely for attention. He can still be correct. He could've been wrong EVERY SINGLE PAST ARGUMENT and be correct here. Basically, there is no argument or logic in this post, it is just a personal attack. Same with all the other "he's an idiot" posts, no matter who they are directed to.

 

[Xsyven]

Psicicle, it was a personal attack.

Chansen, there's a difference between being a good debater, and being stubborn. He's the latter.

THIS THREAD IS ********.

I don't see how it hasn't been re-closed.

 

[Ophelius]

A video game can't be balanced! It's impossible. And sure, a wavedash would be nice, but there's bound to be some other glitch we can abuse. Remember the first time wavedash was discovered? Nobody was expecting it, and look at it now. Everyone loves it. Just because Brawl may be missing one thing, there's bound to be other things we'd be able to find to take place of the precious wavedash.

But if the wavedash is still in, then we have ourselves more options. Thus, a more competetive game.

 

[Adi]

I've got a feeling Sakurai won't take out the wavedash, he didn't take out any of the advanced techs from smash 64 so I doubt he'll take them out from melee.

 

[TheBuzzSaw]

Where is the logic? I could hate SSB64 all I want because it doesn't have a wavedash, it does not make me any worse at melee.

Last I checked, Dylan said that he cannot win without wave-dashing, so that is why he will not participate in Brawl.

 

[psicicle]

?? What excactly is the point of the personal attacks? They don't help any argument or further any discussion.

 

[psicicle]

Last I checked, Dylan said that he cannot win without wave-dashing, so that is why he will not participate in Brawl.

Well, WD is in melee. If you can't win without WD does it make you bad at melee? I personally can't win without the A button. I'd say 75% of my game at least uses it. THat doesn't make me bad at melee, just bad at winning without the A button.

 

[Xsyven]

?? What excactly is the point of the personal attacks? They don't help any argument or further any discussion.

Hahaha. You should read posts before confronting them.

Do you not understand that I'm trying to get this thread closed?

I don't want to help any argument or further any discussion.

 

[Gojira]

No, I'm not. Point out one B move in the game (aside from shiek transforming) that you can't be hit during.

Especially mario, lets look at this

Up b : You can be fsmashed while doing this by any disjointed hitbox
forward b : you're not invincible
down b : you're not invincible
neutral b : projectile.

bowser :

up b : you be hit during this
forward b: works like a grab. You can be hit while doing this
neutral b : projectile, you can be hit
down b : lol I don't even have to point this out

Falco

Up b - you can be hit
forward b - you can be killed easily beyond belief if you do this the wrong way
down b - shine doesnt make you invincible, just comes out in one frame
neutral b - projectile

fox

Same thing

Peach

forward b - not invincible
up b - umbrella is disjointed. Peach isnt invincible
down b - turnips
neutral b - counter. Yes, you are ''invincible'' while doing this, but your timing has to be amazing. More often than not youll be hit during your counter.

Ok, theres one. down b with marth/roy and neutral b with peach offer ''invincibility'' for a small ammount of time. Ill admit. Nothing like ''HES NOT FLINCHING!!11'' though.

shiek/zelda

down b = invincibility while you transform. Also lag. Youll be grabbed.

Yoshi

yoshi is weird, hes got that glitch he can abuse to take no damage but its incredibly hard to do and by no means practical for most yoshi players

up b : nope
forward b : nope
down b : nope
neutral b : nope

Mario and Doc can only be knocked out of their Up-B's with a disjointed hitbox....otherwise he cant Be hit during his up-B. So is the Up-B cancel out of shield stupid?

Bowser/Fox/Falco
Bowsers up-B beats everything in the game. It comes out in 4 frames the first few being invincible. At best you can clink with his Up-B.....oh wait....it can be beat..by none other then the fox and falcos shine wich can only be penetrated by another disjointed hitbox.

Peach
I am 100% sure peach is invincible during the start of her up-B

Marth
you didnt even talk about his Up-B.....but yeha he is invincible during it.

Yoshi
You cant knock yoshi out of her up B period.

Im just saying some are invincible....and your complaint was that some in Brawl are going to be unflinchable.......onyl difference is they take damage but dont flinch.....

The problem with that is giant characters shouldn't be slow. Why would you give a giant target less speed so that he couldnt evade attacks?

What the heck are you smoking.....bowser is not supposed to be even DK fast....in all the mario games he has been slow and strong. now that i mention DK, he should even be slightly slower then he is, however he is noticebly weaker then ganondorf an bowser for the speed he has. Plain and simple, power characters should not be made faster to balance it......that is just stupid.

Ok sure, bowser is *supposed* to be a big, slow dragon. But if we learned anything from melee, bowser has a good moveset, but his lag and his speed are his problems.

Its he size and ANYTHING interupting things he does that is his problem.........him not flinching during his Forward smash (wich is slow) and his other slow power moves is the best way to balance him.....not going against the slow but power rule and making all the power characters faster.

Yup, Im not saying the game will suck for everyone without the wavedash, just that if it wasnt there, I wouldnt be able to compete with anyone who wasn't captain falcon. Personal feelings, purely.

ok

 

[Adi]

Why the hell did you post that again lol, I thought Psicle already refuted that argument by pointing out the small windows of invincibilitly irrelevant

 

[Gojira]

My internet was farted up.

Psicicle.....now i ask you, what are you smoking? Dk is in everyway faster then ganondorf.......faster air attacks minus F-air, Faster tilts, overal faster smashes, I think a faster grab, and even a faster running speed. DK is the fastest of all the power houses hands down..but definatley the overall weakest....but lets not take this off topic.

I still say the balance is fine by adding in no flinching to the slow characters.

 

[psicicle]

Oh. Well I thought that they were roughly around the same level of speed, though I could be wrong on that because I don't main DK and I do main ganon. I thought that overall, ganon's gameplay was around the same speed as DK though but I could be wrong on that.

I also think that balance will be fine with the no flinch thing.

 

[MookieRah]

"It is OK to have an opinion, but avoiding a whole game because of one missing tactic? If anything, that just goes to show how bad he is at Melee."

Where is the logic? I could hate SSB64 all I want because it doesn't have a wavedash, it does not make me any worse at melee.

"And of course, he will come back with something like "I don't only wave-dash; I use tons of tactics!" This also works against him because then it establishes that his dislike of Brawl for lacking wave-dashing is completely irrational."

Using WD at the right time is not the same as WD spamming. If you use it at the right time, it can still be a large part of your game and make a difference. I'm trying to say here that you don't have to spam WD to make it a key part of your game. Quality over quantity in this case.

I'm sure the reason you posted this was simply because you are unaware, but from my readings on Dylan's posts it seems apparent that he is married to the wavedash. Whether or not he spams it, he is adamant about how he would be much worse without the wavedash. It's very obvious that his feelings on the matter are very irrational, and on top of that it does show that he is indeed a lesser player because of it. There are tons of other options at your disposal, and a lot of times wavedashing isn't the best one. If you can accredit your success to a single technique then it REALLY shows a lack of diversity and adaption on your part.

I would hate to see the wavedash go, so would most other competitive players, but I, nor many others, would be too phased if it wasn't included in Brawl. I would just adapt and move on, which Dylan seems unable to do. Every good player knows how important it is to adapt to the situation.

And no, this isn't a personal attack towards Dylan. If anything I am agreeing with some of Buzz's arguments towards the matter. A lot of what he is saying is true, regardless of how it makes Dylan look, and I will be ashamed if Dylan fanboys and others try to squelch him for speaking the truth.

Now, to steer this post on topic:
The no flinching thing is a great idea. It's already been put to good use in more traditional fighters and it's a really good way to balance the slower characters without making them fast. As long as the slower characters still have a few solid fast attacks in their arsenal it should make the slowbies able to dish out AND take the pain. I also very much doubt Nintendo would make it broken.

I honestly would like to see all of the biggest characters, Bowser, DK, Wario, etc. have a move that just makes them not flinch. If it had the properties of Fox and Falco's shine in terms of coming out fast and lasting as long as the user and you can jump out of it then it would make them ****ing insanely tactical to play as. I'd definitely be a bowser main if he had a move like that, and honestly, while that would be ****ing great it still wouldn't be quite as good as the shine. Actually it's pretty much just a slightly better version of crouch canceling. Still good though, and being able to use that in the air while falling back to the stage would prevent a lot of those nasty gimp KOs.

I think I've speculated a little too much :-P. I'll just stop now.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Do you not understand that I'm trying to get this thread closed?

WTF is your problem?! If it has to do with Dylan deal with it with PMs. You don't have to take it with everybody else by trying to close the thread. One more of those posts and I'm reporting your *** off.

Do yourself a favor and GTFO.

Sheesh.

Well, personally I'm ok with the no flinching crap because it will do something for those poor, heavy *******s down the Tier list. Wavedashing? It will be a blow to my chest if it's out, but if they still have more important techs around it won't be so much of a problem.

Fox falling slowly? I don't like that as I'm constantly using Fox, but just like Fox was at the top someone will rise in Brawl to kick everyone else's *****. And lots of people will main him.
Fox will still be the champ at Melee. I was a Ness main at smash64 and I found it rather infuriating that he is such a bad character at Melee. Things have to change, don't they?

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Lololol.

I don't think you understand. When people think of an idiot Brawl speculation, they think of Dylan_Tnga.

The only reason you say things like this if for attention. Have your mom drive you to the doctor's office, and tell the nice doctor that you need some ritalin.


If that's not the problem, then you're disgustingly pessemistic. I'd reccomend suicide.

Reported. Continue to make off topic posts and personal attacks here and I'll see to it that the mods are aware. My thread was closed for being off topic, and everyone is on topic here, except you.

Do you not understand that I'm trying to get this thread closed?

I don't want to help any argument or further any discussion.

Wow! are you proud of yourself? Like I said. Keep it up, Ill keep reporting you. I dont want any troublemakers ruining discussion out of spite for me. That's petty and childish.

Its a lot easier for you to leave than for the thread to be closed. As for you personal attacks? Oh boo hoo, people on the internet dont like me. The fact that you waste your time with petty remarks proves that my posting style is indeed getting on your nerves, which is of course a victory for me.

Bowser/Fox/Falco
Bowsers up-B beats everything in the game. It comes out in 4 frames the first few being invincible. At best you can clink with his Up-B.....oh wait....it can be beat..by none other then the fox and falcos shine wich can only be penetrated by another disjointed hitbox.

That being the point my friend. with ''Invincible'' attacks from melee, aside from counters, and shiek/zelda transformation (where nothing can hit you and things pass through you) a disjointed hitbox will interupt the attack, marths sword being the best example.

In Brawl, ike could be hit by a fully charged tipper smash from marth during aether and it would do damage, but he would not move and the attack would continue.

This kind of invincibility during B attacks is what I meant, however I was unclear when I said ''invincibility during attacks''

power characters should not be made faster to balance it......that is just stupid.

Well I disagree completly. Perhaps his running speed shouldnt be that fast, but the lag after his attacks is inexcusible.

Reducing bowsers lag will do way more for him than unflinchingness during attacks, as he can avoid be punished with L cancelling.

You have got to be kidding me. Dylan has some of the worst debate skills I have ever seen. It is OK to have an opinion, but avoiding a whole game because of one missing tactic?

How... does my choice in game purchases reflect my ability to argue a point?

If anything, that just goes to show how bad he is at Melee

I don't see how. if my love of the wavedash extended to spamming the technique or using it inappropriatly in melee then definatly it would be interfering with my smash ability. However Ive been playing melee for quite some time, I know how to use a wavedash, and when not to.

But If I don't want to play brawl because they took out a great technique? Personal opinion.

Once again, if I said something like ''No one should play brawl if there is no wavedashing'' then I would deserve the harassment that I get. But I'm not, so you people are nitpicking over someone's personal choices which he does not wish to force on other people.

It'd be like if you flamed me purely because I didn't want to try a new version of my favorite style of pizza, with removed pepperoni and added something else because you were convinced the new pizza was gonna be the best thing ever!!1!!1

"I don't only wave-dash; I use tons of tactics!" This also works against him because then it establishes that his dislike of Brawl for lacking wave-dashing is completely irrational.

Once again wrong, I said the removal of the wavedash would definatly affect my ability to actually win a match vs competitive players at a high level

BECAUSE I don't use wavedashing very much. But where I do use it, it is an essential part of my spacing game.

And yes, I play super smash bros 64 competitivly and online. I play captain falcon, and ssb64 is an entirely different game, I would not want wavedashing in that game.

But lets face it, whats brawl gonna be like, melee? or ssb64? It looks identicle to melee with a few touchups to the graphics, but even then I still think melee is a beautiful looking game.

How it will be played we have yet to see, but from the trailers it looked a lot like melee action, and we can see that sliding on the ground is still in the game. We just dont know if the airdodge causes it or not. Which is probably will.

I'm sure the reason you posted this was simply because you are unaware, but from my readings on Dylan's posts it seems apparent that he is married to the wavedash. Whether or not he spams it, he is adamant about how he would be much worse without the wavedash.

Married to the wavedash eh? I use it just as much as the next person.

And it's the truth. While it may only be a fraction of my game, I doubt I could compete with the best players without it.

Vs my friends and people my level and below I would be fine, but a tourney I would stand less of a chance than I do now, I'm certain.

You might say ''well you already cant beat the best players in the world'' and I can't. But I can at least fight them (yes I do play with some of the top players in north america regularily)

Without the wavedash Id be getting 4 stocked everytime probably.

It's very obvious that his feelings on the matter are very irrational, and on top of that it does show that he is indeed a lesser player because of it. There are tons of other options at your disposal, and a lot of times wavedashing isn't the best one.

How many times have I stated this ^^ ? Anyone keeping count?

I use shffling/dashdancing way more than I use wavedashing. I used to spam wavedashing too much and I am actually trying to wavedash less and wavedash more, WHEN ITS A GOOD IDEA

Dashdancing >>>>>> wavedashing back and forth like a newb.

Dylan's fanboys

They're my friends. And were they my fanboys theyd agree with everything I say. Which they don't. aproximatly two thirds of the who else is nervous about brawl sucking thread community are people who I intially had flame wars with in various other threads.

You have no right to be so judgemental. I don't mind your post because it was intelligent, but you do realize calling someone a ''fanboy'' is an insult and that you probably offended some people?

I don't need people backing me up. I'll defend myself as I see fit, people respect my debate skills for a reason.

 

[Y34HDUD3!!!]

Off topic post that Y34HDUD3!!! has to write because it's an emergency, then uses an off topic coupon so he will not get an infraction from MODs that are closing in on me because I have a Alias with lots of 3s, 4s, and exclamation marks:

Dylan, can you post a link to Play 2 Win?
I'm at my uncle's house and I don't have any in my list...

POTATOES.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Pfft who could give you a warning. You spam with a purpose, a purpose sakurais mindgames cannot even comprehend...

Buttscratcha?!

Last I checked, Dylan said that he cannot win without wave-dashing, so that is why he will not participate in Brawl

Hmm, ok, well if can you post a video of someone who isn't aniki winning a tournament match without wavedashing (with a character whom wavedashing is a big part of their game) ?

You probably can, but it's rare.

Wavedashing is definatly not why I win. Its sliding. Its sliding forwards and backwards and im not invincible while doing it.

the reason I win a lot of the time is because I play situationally. I look at smashbrothers like a game of chess set to intergalactic warp drive. I know well about mixing up approaches / defensive strategies, using mindgames, and making/breaking patterns.

I Know how to play smash darnit, I'm a competitive melee player, I know just as much as the next guy.

But wavedashing is a big part of my game. And its a big part of a lot of peoples game.

To ask someone who uses it all the time to enter a tournament, and do well, without using the wavedash would probably be an intresting challenge. Intresting, but also pointless.

Do you understand? The wavedash isn't why I win. It's just a part of a bigger picture. The bigger picture is what decideds when I win or lose, but without wavedashing, a big chunk of my spacing game would just dissapear entirely.

I also abuse wavelanding a lot, fox vs marth, when youre in the air.. what are you gonna do? Land and get grabbed, nub out and do a firefox and hope for the best? Or waveland, dodge the grab, then punish with a grab of your own, uthrow, uair, ggs.



link : http://z11.invisionfree.com/Play_2_Win/index.php?act=idx

Join!

 

[Xsyven]

It's really funny that you want me to stay on topic while everyone else is talking about Brawl updates, Dylan's queeney attitude, what characters are invincible during certain attacks, Donkey Kong's speed/power, etc...

Hypocrites.

The only reason I wanted to get this closed waaas... drumroll please... because it was already off topic! I may seem like a ******** son of a ***** to most of you, but hey. I'm not.

Edit: And look, Dylan's advertizing. You freaking Queen.



ON TOPIC. (omg, new concept.)

Everyone is going to have a similar feeling-- that Brawl isn't going to live up to Melee awesomeness.

And chances are, that it's not. But that doesn't mean that it'll suck.

It's a whole new game, and there's a whole new mountain to climb. There are new concepts this time around, and with these new concepts, there will be new fighting styles, new advanced techniques, and sadly, loss of previous techniques and fighting styles.

The fact that it's a game in the Super Smash Bros. series though, is something that we can be happy about. We all loved the first one, and though the second one took some getting used to, we now love Melee more than we ever loved SSB64.

Chances are, the same feeling will happen this time around. For some of you, it won't. Luckily, Wiis are backwards compatible. But hey, better to try to build a new game rather than a slightly improved old one.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

Meh, I don't see why you're hatin on the thread, but I'm really not gonna be mad at you after that post. Good stuff, I pretty much agree.

And yeah, smashbros brawl is gonna be a NEW game. I just hope to god it's a GOOD game.

I dunno, just the fact that its on wii makes me think itll be too easy... I don't a trust a gaming console that wants old people to be part of their demographic.

Meh Im a hardcore gamer, like most of ya. Capcom difficulty level ftw XD