Where you AGT? The Official Toon Link General Discussion/ Video Thread!

[xXDarkRisingXx]

can anyone give me a complete break down on the Toon Link vs Mewtwo matchup?

 

[Deleted member]

Throw bombs/rang to keep out constant hitboxes since hes kind of fat, if you hit him juggle him. Punish him for Up B'ing away. Fairly simple, probably +1 or +2 for toonlink

 

[B.W.]

Way more manageable than 3.02 that's for sure.

 

[xXDarkRisingXx]

Throw bombs/rang to keep out constant hitboxes since hes kind of fat, if you hit him juggle him. Punish him for Up B'ing away. Fairly simple, probably +1 or +2 for toonlink

I can see how the boomerangs and bombs can keep Mewtwo back. and Toon Link combos mewtwo pretty hard as well. but then here's the issue. Mewtwo can combo Toon Link just as hard and edge guard him with no effort. he also has a deflector. do I just try to keep my distance and bait out he's reflector and grabs?

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah, offstage gameplay vs mewtwo is pretty rough. Although, you can throw bombs at him on your way back with AGTs

The main point though is that you can easily compete with his neutral game, so theres no real problem

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

So I'm picking up T. Link as my new main and have some questions about tech. I got down t-bombing, both short hop and full hop but I can't seem to SH away and do it. That option seems better since it keeps him mobile, can someone explain the controls/timing for when I should drop the bomb and SH away?

Also, when/how should I be using t-bombing and AGT as opposed to just chucking out bombs whenever I can?

 

[Player -0]

T-bombing?

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

That's what it was called in the video on the first page. It's when you short hop > z-drop > arrow. It sends the bomb at an angle.

 

[Player -0]

Why not just throw it?

 

[AndrogynousOkami]

I can't seem to find what you're talking about, but I'm pretty sure Tink's fire arrows automatically blow up bombs. Do you mean bomb punting, when you hit it with zair? It's neat but situational; the added distance is cool, but it's not always worth the extra time it takes. You can shorthop away and do it on the ground or do it moving forward by running shorthop > AGT forward or forward up > zair. It takes practice, though.

AGT is something that you should probably almost always be doing since Tink is almost always in motion even when he's camping. You can make it a substitute for a grounded glide toss by AGTing horizontally just as you exit jumpsquat.

I would also recommend learning spin dropping (grounded up-b, but falling off a ledge before the hitboxes appear, which makes you do a falling aerial spin attack). It's not really tech, but getting down the timing for shorthop > airdodge > zair as an attack would be good too.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

I can't post the video because of low post count but at the very bottom of the first post it's titled How to AGToonLink Pt.1 by daze. Second part is T-bombing.

Short hop > z-drop > arrow. I can do that, but when he SHs backwards, I can't seem to pull that off, was asking about the timing.

 

[B.W.]

I remember T-Bombing.

Quickly after its discovery the answer was never. It won't do anything to help you win.

I'm not even sure if it's still possible to do.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

Ah okay, so it's really not important? And yes you can still do it, I've been practicing it. So what are the essential Toon Link ATs?

 

[B.W.]

AGT... That's kind of it.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

Alright. And that leads me to my other question, how/when is AGT important? Is it solely used as a way to inch in a direction while throwing out a hitbox? What makes AGT so important as opposed to just throwing out bombs?

I'm sorry if these sound like stupid questions, I've never really played a zoning character before.

 

[B.W.]

AGT is useful with recovery. I also like to use it to move upward when throwing a bomb to ensure I don't get hit by the explosion.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

I can definitely see it useful with recovery. I actually have a question about that I forgot to ask. In the video I posted about, it looks like he is Up-Bing, and then pulling a bomb and jumping again before touching the ground. I can't seem to do that. After my Up-B I'm only allowed to pull another bomb before hitting the ground again. Is this a 3.5 change or am I missing an input here?

 

[B.W.]

Link me to the video? I don't see which one you're talking about.

 

[Player -0]

Are you talking about bomb jumping? You need to AGT up + throw bomb up then Up-B into the bomb then SDI up/towards stage then down-B without fast falling. repeat.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

I can't link tot he video because I need more than 10 posts but it's in the first post of this thread.. T-bombing and bomb jumping are two different things. I guess t-bombing is pointless since no one knows what I'm talking about.

And yeah, with bomb-jumping I don't know how to remain bomb-jumping in the air without touching the floor. In the video he's continuously getting hit by the bomb, pulling one out, jumping, and AGT into the next bomb. If you're still confused I can link the video by my next post....

Edit: Here's the vid: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zwoOEgVN9hE

 

[B.W.]

You don't get your jump back after you bomb jump.

What he's actually doing is AGT Up > Up-B so he gets hit by the bomb > Down-B > AGT Up > Up-B.

 

[AndrogynousOkami]

AGT is kind of like an aerial wavedash every time you have a bomb in your hand, so it's useful to keep moving both on and off stage.

 

[Player -0]

Or it's like a glide toss... but aerial.

 

[Deleted member]

Theres a reason we have Glide Toss and Aerial Glide Toss

one is on the ground, one is in the air.

 

[AdmiralSnackbar]

You don't get your jump back after you bomb jump.

What he's actually doing is AGT Up > Up-B so he gets hit by the bomb > Down-B > AGT Up > Up-B.

I can never Down-B before touching the ground, though.

 

[AndrogynousOkami]

I was just trying to offer a way of looking at it. It's a short burst of movement, like a wavedash, as you throw a bomb.

@ A AdmiralSnackbar : Are you sure you're not fastfalling the bomb pull?

 

[Samwisely]

What do you guys think about the Bowser MU? I have a Bowser/Sheik/Zelda (but mainly Bowser) player in my first bracket pool match this weekend.

 

[B.W.]

If you lose you're a fraud, that's what I think about the Bowser Matchup.

Real advice, just don't let him go anywhere small.

 

[Player -0]

Don't do anything dumb or you're getting punished hard. Also don't be super hasty with any of your options.

If you're going for some close combat damage/combos then use Grab/Up-Throw to set up, Bowser's jump is fairly slow so it shouldn't be too bad. Just don't spam it and set up for it with a bomb -> Fair -> grab and stuff.

If you're circle camping don't lose your double jump if you think he might hit you, offstage + no DJ = bad.

 

[AndrogynousOkami]

http://www.twitch.tv/stockcancelgaming/v/3989938

Please watch my dreams get crushed at 2 hours 20 minutes and give me advice on how to have my dreams slightly less crushed in the future!

What should I have done about the counterpick in the second game? He left WarioWare open and I was like A-W-E-S-O-M-E and I said "Let's go to WarioWare" and he was like "Okay, lemme switch" and I looked up and Ganondorf was on the screen.
You know that feeling you get when you turn a game off and then realize you didn't save? That's what it felt like.

 

[Ola]

I've got some more matches, if anyone wants to watch/critique them. I'm curious what others think I should stop doing or do more of during games.

1st match against a pikachu, 2nd against an Ivy.
https://youtu.be/qMOQ8LhoPnM?t=3h9m59s

 

[Ola]

http://www.twitch.tv/stockcancelgaming/v/3989938

Please watch my dreams get crushed at 2 hours 20 minutes and give me advice on how to have my dreams slightly less crushed in the future!

What should I have done about the counterpick in the second game? He left WarioWare open and I was like A-W-E-S-O-M-E and I said "Let's go to WarioWare" and he was like "Okay, lemme switch" and I looked up and Ganondorf was on the screen.
You know that feeling you get when you turn a game off and then realize you didn't save? That's what it felt like.

One thing I would suggest is trying to be more aggressive in general. You constantly retreated while throwing projectiles, but rarely ever pressured your opponent. I would recommend holding your ground more often, and be less willing to give up stage position.

 

[Poloflipx]

https://youtu.be/KEdJAJwuc_4?t=49s

Grand Finals against Big D's D3 and ICs from a weekly yesterday, I basically get wrecked until game 3 where I remember how to play the ICs matchup somewhat at the last stock. I almost reset the bracket but Big D is too magical. I would appreciate some advice in the MU, or some criticism on what I did wrong against D3 / stage choices

 

[-_Face_-]

you didn't pull a bomb until 7:25. it's sort of the same idea as fox/falco. you have unlimitted ammo...use it

 

[Player -0]

He pulled a lot of bombs, not sure what you're talking about..?

- Try to hold space better. A couple of instances you gave Big D stage control for free.
*Ex: 8:22.
- Don't jump randomly or waste your DJ. You seemed to jump a lot in a space where DDD threatens and he would just Fair you offstage and you were boned.
- I'd advise you to brush up on your combo game a tad. Right now you're not punishing DDD as hard as you could be. If you're not sure I'm sure you could watch Lunchables a bit.
- This is somewhat connected to randomly jumping. You used a lot of options that didn't really do much for you besides leave yourself open. It's as if you're unaware of the stage/positions of both characters.
*Ex: 8:25, you airdodged far away from Big D. You should airdodge when you think he'll throw out an attack and then get to the ground asap without leaving yourself too open. What you did was gave Big D a free edgeguard. Instead of airdodging you could've also done an early Up-B (would've likely been Faired to other side of screen but you would'e been much higher vertically giving you more time to AGT bombs.)
- Stop fishing so much lol. Play patiently. Your strongest move isn't your best move.
*Ex: 12:15. You F-Smashed like 4 times in the span of 10 seconds.

 

[Poloflipx]

Thanks @ Player -0 , I definitely felt I picked up the slack after game 3, but what you mentioned are definitely habits I need to get rid of, and having someone point them out really helps.

 

[McLefty]

In the next update for Project M, do you think they should add Young Link? After all, the "M" in Project M stands for Melee. And the project was to add all Melee elements including, gameplay, items, and characters. Since Young Link is in Melee, should't he be added? I know i'm not alone either. A lot of people want Young Link back. Please put him in the game. it would be so much more fun.

 

[Player -0]

Oh snap. Did he just say...

After all, the "M" in Project M stands for Melee.

 

[McLefty]

Oh snap. Did he just say...

I'm only telling the truth. If they truly want Project Melee, they need Young Link and Pichu.

 

[AndrogynousOkami]

After all, the "M" in Project M stands for Melee.

No, it doesn't. While that particular letter could possibly have been chosen in reference to Melee, and ProjectMelee was seen in certain media for a time, it is not Project Melee, and with good reason.

"ProjectM" was taken on those outlets; it wasn't until later that we adopted the use of "ProjectMGame" over the always-available ProjectMelee. The individuals who initially made those accounts also were not leaders of the project, so their naming of the accounts is not really indicative of anything.

We care about which people refer to it as because it's an issue of branding. We've worked very hard over the course of 5 and a half years to build up a reputation as Project M, with no ability to sink money into advertising campaigns or anything like that. Because of this, it's quite frustrating when people refer to the game name incorrectly, and more so when people insist (factually incorrectly, mind you) that it used to not be named Project M. Doing so works only to perpetuate this misinformation and confuses newcomers to the series/game, and harms our branding. That's it, and we would greatly appreciate it if people would respect those wishes.
-Strong Bad, member of the PMDT

And the project was to add all Melee elements including, gameplay, items, and characters.

Are you trolling? Genuine question.

Project M hopes to achieve a game similar to Super Smash Bros. Melee in many respects. It does not, however, intend to be a 1:1 Melee clone.
-The official site

If they wanted to add all Melee elements, they wouldn't have changed ledge invincibility or buff characters like Mewtwo, Roy, and Ganondorf. It's not Melee, it's Project M.

If you want Young Link in Project M that much, find a mod for him, or request one, or heck, learn to do it yourself. Otherwise bring it up with the PMDT or something; we already have a thread for Young Link, and you've already posted in it.