Where you AGT? The Official Toon Link General Discussion/ Video Thread!

[AznGamer405]

Mario actually has a lot of **** on T.Link that, if you're a campy/runaway player, you're going to have to adjust to.

His fireballs are, in some cases (not all), more spammable than T.Link's projectiles. He has the cape to send poorly thrown projectiles back at you and he can gimp you very hard with his cape and b-air.

That's not to say T.Link has nothing against Mario. He can combo him decently, and his mobility is much better than Mario's and if there aren't any walls he can edge guard Mario with his (mindless) Aerial Up-Bing on the ledge.

imo I've always felt the matchup to be like 60-40 Mario. But I'm not 100% on that with 2.6 so I'll get back to you on that.

Ah alright.

Yeah, I ended up in Grand Finals on that friendly tourney and Mario's close range game is pretty strong as well - often getting me locked into hitstun before taking a forward air from Mario.

I'm not so sure what I did wrong though. Perhaps its the stage choices I made?

When it was my choice to pick the stage, I chose:

Yoshi's Island (Melee)
Hyrule Castle
Delfino Plaza
Dreamland

I won on Delfino and Hyrule, but I lost on Yoshi's and Dreamland.

With Yoshi's, I thought I would have been able to pressure the opposing Mario with my offensive playstyle. I was winning too, until I failed to connect a combo, leading myself to be comboed instead.

As for Dreamland, I thought of playing more defensively, and hoped the large ceilings of Dreamland would help. Which they did, until I failed to connect Bomb-Jumps which lead to my demise.

 

[B.W.]

Other people might have other experiences with Mario than myself and therefore they might have different advice as well.

Mario's strong everywhere except, save for fireballs, his neutral game. He's got high priority moves, and he gets to combo almost anyone he wants for days. You want to use your projectiles to force him to approach, and use your superior dashdance and try to get him to make mistakes. That said T.Link does better with a lot of space. It's good to know how to be on the offense, but fact of the matter is, you have to be able to spam efficiently. Big stages allow more room for running away and throwing, though there are characters that would make you want a smaller stage, Mario is not one of them.

Hyrule Castle is a dumb stage, but if it's legal it's probably pretty good for spamming.

Dreamland is usually my stage of choice as T.Link. Lots of space, platforms help you run around, the high ceiling and far away blastzones allow you survive as well since T.Link's recovery is pretty good. I also like PS2.

 

[BRLNK88]

Mario's bair is like most BS move in the game.
The hitbox is ABSURD, and it's so frikin fast. Even if you glide toss effectively, there's not much you can do when Mario drop zones a bair in your face.

 

[AznGamer405]

Other people might have other experiences with Mario than myself and therefore they might have different advice as well.

Mario's strong everywhere except, save for fireballs, his neutral game. He's got high priority moves, and he gets to combo almost anyone he wants for days. You want to use your projectiles to force him to approach, and use your superior dashdance and try to get him to make mistakes. That said T.Link does better with a lot of space. It's good to know how to be on the offense, but fact of the matter is, you have to be able to spam efficiently. Big stages allow more room for running away and throwing, though there are characters that would make you want a smaller stage, Mario is not one of them.

Hyrule Castle is a dumb stage, but if it's legal it's probably pretty good for spamming.

Dreamland is usually my stage of choice as T.Link. Lots of space, platforms help you run around, the high ceiling and far away blastzones allow you survive as well since T.Link's recovery is pretty good. I also like PS2.

Isn't Hyrule a legal stage though?

My friends and I assumed that if a stage was legal in any past Smash Bros. game, then it would be legal for tourney play in P:M.

I guess I'll start playing the Boomerang/Bomb/Fire Arrow game more often then aha.

Well timed cape swings will probably slow me down I bit I guess.

Besides my offensive playstyle, I also use TL's hookshot offensively. I guess it's a carryover from how I play vBrawl TL? I alternate between the various Smash games if you're wondering.

Mario's bair is like most BS move in the game.
The hitbox is ABSURD, and it's so frikin fast. Even if you glide toss effectively, there's not much you can do when Mario drop zones a bair in your face.

Yeah, it's a funny move to say the least... Cape, and Fire Balls are hard to get around for their own respective reasons too imo.

 

[B.W.]

Whether or not a stage was legal in a previous Smash game doesn't matter. Hyrule Castle's walls, and its blastzones make the stage banned from tournaments. It's a fun stage, but not usually a legal one. At the end of the day though, whether or not a stage is legal is up to the TO.

It'd help more if you had footage of yourself so we could pick your plays apart and tell you where you do good and what needs improvement.

 

[AznGamer405]

Whether or not a stage was legal in a previous Smash game doesn't matter. Hyrule Castle's walls, and its blastzones make the stage banned from tournaments. It's a fun stage, but not usually a legal one. At the end of the day though, whether or not a stage is legal is up to the TO.

It'd help more if you had footage of yourself so we could pick your plays apart and tell you where you do good and what needs improvement.

Hm... I'll see what I can do.

I think the Hyrule Castle game was saved on my friend's Wii.

That or the SSE: Jungle game that I also lost on aha.

Would I need to buy a Dazzle Recorder or something of the sort just to show off the replay?

Edit:

Ah I see. TO has the Final say whether or not it's legal.

If you're wondering, my strategy on that stage was to get the Mario near the Tent. I figured if 64 Link can pull off his shenanigans there, PM TL might as well imitate that.

 

[Fuzzyness]

Imo TL is strongest on small stages (wario ware/yoshi's story in particular). Edge cancelled dairs/up+bs are godly on those stages, it's way harder to avoid him cornering you (and his grab/projectiles/up+b are 500x better vs people with limited space), people die really early from his kill setups and the platforms are really good for his vertical combo game (especially WW).

Alo try not to categorise your playstyle as offensive/defensive, it's way too black and white and it just ends up limiting your options in the long run. Just do what's necessary and focus on good decision making.

- Jolteon

 

[BRLNK88]

Yo Fuzzyness, you played a guy from Texas at EVO, TSC. He's from Houston, just thought I'd throw that out there lol.
I'm honestly not a big fan of Toon on small stages because of how badly he handles pressure. Yeah, he can get early kills and quick combos, but it sort of get canceled out by that.
I think FD is my favorite, followed by Dreamland.
Castlevania is OK. I love to waveland on platforms but they move so much you can accidentally air dodge and get punished.

 

[AznGamer405]

I personally find the Dracula's Castle to be obstructive to TL's projectile game due to the constantly shifting platforms.

I'll try picking WarioWare next time against my opponents. I still have to find my comfort zone on some of these stages.

What are the thoughts of going Battlefield/Yoshi's Story as Toon Link? I like using the three platforms to my advantage.

 

[B.W.]

I don't think any stage is T.Link's best stage, Dreamland just happens to be my preference in most cases.

The matchup really decides what stage is best.

I actually like WarioWare with T.Link. the top platforms are great for spamming bombs. battlefield is also a good stage for T.Link depending on the matchup. Same for Yoshi's Story.

Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk 2

 

[Deleted member]

TL does good on every stage IMO

 

[BRLNK88]

TL does good on every stage IMO

Does well.

 

[AznGamer405]

The match up dictates whether or not Toon Link does well on certain stages.

For example, against Spacies, I'm fairly certain you wouldn't want to pick FD or Smashville.

That's pretty much a death sentence.

 

[Tehtigerfist]

is toon links wave dash even worth using, it's so short and i can only think of it being useful to ledge guard.

 

[Deleted member]

I use a lot of wavedash, its not short IMO. It's useful for my movement. Maybe not yours.

 

[Tehtigerfist]

I use a lot of wavedash, its not short IMO. It's useful for my movement. Maybe not yours.

yeah, with practicing with it, i feel its does really good

 

[AznGamer405]

TL's wavedash is more of a positioning/escape tool than anything imo.

 

[BRLNK88]

lol, TL's wavedash isn't short, it's not anything like Marf's, but still very useful.

 

[AznGamer405]

Alright, this might be a dumb question to ask here on this thread but, how restrained is a player's gameplay if he was using a Wavebird by any chance? Is there really noticeable input lag behind it?

Because I use one, and I'm thinking about switching to a wired controller. Thoughts anyone?

 

[SpiderMad]

Because I use one, and I'm thinking about switching to a wired controller. Thoughts anyone?

I'm pretty sure they add 1,000 frames of lag, I'll be happy to take it off your hands =)

 

[AznGamer405]

No wai. It's my controller of choice for playing GCN games!

But if they add that much lag to my game, I will be using a wired one for Smash.

 

[Deleted member]

They probably add somewhere around 1 to 3 frames of lag on inputs. There is literally no drawback to a first party wired controller, because you shouldn't even be that far from the crt.
If you didn't get it, the 1000 frames of lag was a joke

 

[AznGamer405]

They probably add somewhere around 1 to 3 frames of lag on inputs. There is literally no drawback to a first party wired controller, because you shouldn't even be that far from the crt.
If you didn't get it, the 1000 frames of lag was a joke

Nah it was fairly obvious lol.

Apparently Wavebirds are rare these days? I got three of them back when they were still new, and much cheaper than they are now aha.

But anyways, I actually don't play on a CRT unfortunately. I play on a 720p HDTV, but I never noticed lag on it lol.

 

[Deleted member]

You don't notice lag because you're used to the input delay. If you compared it side by side you'll notice it. I have a wavebird myself, I got it for free. They are KIND of rare.
By the way guys, this weekend at LTC, I pulled out my TL vs. Denti game 2. I won game 1 with marth and we went halberd and he went ganon. I 3 stocked him, but the fun part was this. We were on the stationary part of halberd, and I fire spiked him into the ground, read where he would getup-roll, Grab then D throw, up b kill and he ragequit. He was on his last stock regardless and I was on my third, but I feel accomplished with a true low tier

 

[AznGamer405]

Ah I see.

Hopefully I can snag a fourth wavebird for cheap off of eBay before they become true collectors items aha.

I tried playing with my wired controller today, and it was an interesting experience. Much faster, and I can do all of my tricks at that.

Also, nice job on LTC. Any recordings by any chance?

Speaking of the Fire Spike, is there some sort of technique to get it off, rather than relying on chance? I know that in order for the spike to get off, it needs to connect to the Master Sword's hilt, but is there a way to get it off more consistently? It would be a nice option if available for use.

 

[Deleted member]

I get the fire spike really consistantly actually. Since its the top of the dair hitbox, I will jump offstage and throw out a dair to my opponent but stay under them. They always jump over me because they think I'll just die, but I got down the spacing do where if they double jump it hits them. There is NO RNG/CHANGE/LUCK TO IT. It is 100% spacing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQACIbrkwc Heres a video of me getting the fire spike. It wasn't a double jump, but thats how I generally space it. (Also the shield break was really really nice)

 

[GunBlaze]

I get the fire spike really consistantly actually. Since its the top of the dair hitbox, I will jump offstage and throw out a dair to my opponent but stay under them. They always jump over me because they think I'll just die, but I got down the spacing do where if they double jump it hits them. There is NO RNG/CHANGE/LUCK TO IT. It is 100% spacing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mHQACIbrkwc Heres a video of me getting the fire spike. It wasn't a double jump, but thats how I generally space it. (Also the shield break was really really nice)

Spoiler

 

[BRLNK88]

Does anyone else get really frustrated when you go to someone's place to play Smash and they only have an HDTV?
You have to painstakingly explain to them why it's a problem, how Nintendo was dumb enough focus on their gimmicky motion controls over better specs.
You have to adjust your whole playstyle to account for the lag, re-time your SHFFLS, slow down wavelands and wavedashes, carefully time your edgeguarding and recoveries. Meanwhile your opponent who's used to the TV claims he doesn't notice any lag, which just frustrates you more.
The worst is a friend of mine that insists "a true test to see how good you are is if you can adjust to the lag". I wanna smack him in the face...
>_>

On a side note, I also get fire spikes pretty consistently when I want them.
bair -> fire spike FTW

 

[AznGamer405]

Oh yeah.

I feel your pain.

I visited my friend who mains Mario today, and after switching to a wired GCN Controller, his lag was pretty noticeable. Not bad, but the timing of my hits was excruciatingly off.

I should have mentioned awhile back that the tourney I placed second in, also was using an HDTV. It's rather unfortunate.

-------------------------

On another note, does anyone know what kind of devices are good for recording P:M or vBrawl matches? I'm going to a vBrawl tourney hosted by me on Thursday, and I'd really like to know what are my options.

I hear Dazzle is good, but are there any other cheaper alternatives to that?

 

[B.W.]

There's a CRT in my car so it's always there when I need it.

 

[BRLNK88]

There's a CRT in my car so it's always there when I need it.

I don't always have my car with me when I go to play Smash, and you have to talk the other people there into using the CRT.
The life of a hardcore Smasher....

 

[BRLNK88]

Why the hell is this board so damn dead???
Is TL that bad of a character?

 

[GunBlaze]

Nah. Just not too much life.

 

[BRLNK88]

I wanna know why, there're weeks where it's fit to bursting with activity, then gets nothing for several days.
The Link board for example gets a constant stream of traffic.
My only explanation is TL is repped to be one of the worse characters thus far.

 

[AznGamer405]

Discussion dies when there's no room to improve on it imo.

For example, when I kinda revived this thread with my discussion, it couldn't go further because I lacked footage of what I was describing to you guys.

I would LOVE to show off some nice replays but I don't have a capture device or anything of the sort to get at it.

 

[SpiderMad]

Do u got any type of camera like a cellphone

Sent from my HTC One V using Tapatalk 4

 

[AznGamer405]

I mean, I could record from my phone, but the quality will most likely be horrible unfortunately.

I'll see what I can do though.

Also, the reason why I think the Link board gets so much traffic compared to the TL board is most likely lack of interest within TL as a character.

Many people who play Smash Bros. (from at least, what I've seen), just do not like TL's games such as the Wind Waker.

 

[SpiderMad]

How horrible, just do/try it

 

[B.W.]

Quality only matters if it's so bad that we can't tell what's going on

 

[SpiderMad]

Yeah seriously, stop making excuses to not make videos people: even getting "real" recording equipment better than a decent Camera at the TV only makes the effort harder because you have to set it up and everything.

This is a $50 Phone, I either upload the videos to Youtube and use the Youtube remix/editor to combine videos; or I upload to Box.com and download to computer and edit with Premiere.

For recording my hands I have a chair with a footrest, and I put the phone on the footrest and put a glass or something on it to keep it on while the camera hangs off. Then I sync the two videos later, which I've been thinking to try and SCREAM or something to make the syncing easier through Audio.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjpvlB8pMPQ