When do YOU use Sing and Rollout? How successful are you?

[noodlelord17]

..........

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Not to be rude but this is a known thing, since the first game. It's cool that you figured it out on your own though.

 

[♫ Zura ♫]

This isn't useless, I've caught many people like this before and rested afterwards.
There's much more ways to utilize sings such as reading your opponent from a roll, or you can just create a set up.

Also, like Zero said this is a known method.

 

[RedBeanPorridge]

This isn't very useful about 60% of the time as it becomes pretty predictable hte more you use it. if the opponent doesnt get caught in that first 'Ji' They have time to hit you either before the hitbox is active or just slightly after the hitbox is no longer active and you are *just* about to grab the ledge.

The only times I've found sing very useful is during close combat. I would use it while jumping, that way there's a chance ( a very slim chance mind you) that jigglypuff can whiff an enemy attack, then proceed to put them asleep. You're left with a lot of sing end lag so this only really ever works if done at higher percents so the opponent stays asleep for longer.

 

[Ieven]

I wonder if a sing can stop an ennemis attack ?

 

[SyncNatsyu]

I wonder if a sing can stop an ennemis attack ?

This was discussed earlier:
http://smashboards.com/threads/analysis-sing-custom-upbs-and-sing-stopped-attacks.373896/

Don't be fooled, doing it this way is much too risky even if it is rewarding. everything shown was set up to work, it'll be rare to land one in a real match. Not saying Sing isnt useful in other ways.

 

[Desu~]

In any ways, it's better to know that there is some use about Sing nowadays instead of just the usual taunt-baiting Sing on edge.

 

[SyncNatsyu]

In any ways, it's better to know that there is some use about Sing nowadays instead of just the usual taunt-baiting Sing on edge.

yes, i never meant to imply it can't be used, instead I mean that if you're going for one it should be a last effort thing and even then not to expect it to work. But yeah it does make sing have a use outside ledge(or singing falcon/warlock punches). The main thing making it difficult besides the periods of vulnerability for start-up and between hitboxes is the fact that the enemy must be grounded or close enough to be considered grounded for sing to even work.

 

[OmegaSorin]

I tend to use sing when I'm just about to land on the ground next to the opponent, usually when I do that it tends to hit roughly 65% of the time. Of course idealy you want to land behind the opponent who's in mid attack and use sing, cause if you drop infront of them theres a chance it could be countered easier then from the back.

 

[OddCrow]

I get a useful, "needed" Sing off in about 1/10 jigglypuff matches. In 2/10 I get kills using rollout though so there's that.

 

[toadster101]

Sing is easily the worst move in Jigglypuff's arsenal, but I've used it effectively before.

 

[OmegaSorin]

Sing is easily the worst move in Jigglypuff's arsenal, but I've used it effectively before.

I wouldn't say worst, there are less effective moves to use in a heated combat scenario... but its up there.

 

[Desu~]

I've heard from countless people using Jiggs that Sing is incredibly useful when reading a roll from your opponent since Sing's range have actually increased.

I need to put it to practice though.

 

[ZeroJanitor]

Sing is definitely a good cheese tactic for people who don't know it well enough. I've had instances of using Sing and people would stand close and charge a smash attack, but then they get hit by the end hitbox and I get a free Rest.

 

[lRasha]

Hey everyone! Before I start, if you don't feel like reading all of this then read the last paragraph instead. Now I'll just go straight into it. My main is Sheik. When it comes to this game, I'm interested in the underdogs also. Jigglypuff is kind of one of them. I say "kind of" because it seems like some people here are seeing her more as a threat. I only base that off of this thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/swf-...6th-28th-december-3-votes-from-now-on.379736/ Right now she's not at the bottom. Tier lists may not mean much to some people, but to me the tier list being formed in that thread at least shows what the people here are thinking about. I don't know what the other communities are thinking though.

I'm a player that wants to utilize all of the special moves (or B moves) of a character. Jigglypuff is obviously a high risk, high reward character. In fact, 3 out of 4 of her B moves are high risk, high reward to me. It seems like a Jigglypuff player can go a whole match without using those 3 B moves (Rollout, Rest, and Sing), even Pound, because she's the lightest character in the game and she really needs to not be vulnerable. I've seen good talk about Rest (like setups), videos on it, and that it's better than Brawl Rest. I'm pretty content with the Rest discussion.

Sing seems to get mixed views. Some people here like it and some I believe don't use it. I've seen testing on it. I even tested it (not like a full-on extensive omega test or anything). IDEALLY, Sing should be a move where you use it and then be able to land a KO attack. IN REALITY, that's not always the case for some. I've tested it with an average damage percentage on the CPU. I stood next to the CPU and used Sing. That CPU instantly (or near instant) went to sleep and slept long enough for me to Rest. I guess in a real battle your opponent is moving here and there which is a different story. The opponent may not stand still long enough to get hit because they're moving or they launch an attack quick enough. Just a guess/thought on why the testing result on a still CPU may not be have the same results in a moving battle.

I'm not sure if I see much talk about Rollout (except the glitch that was taken away). Rollout can easily be predictable if you're just sitting there charging in place while your opponent just watches you. I feel like this move for the most part can be treated as a Smash attack. If you fully charge a Smash attack, you will likely not land it in a 1-on-1 battle. I see Rollout as potential to use as a "charge it enough to where you just aren't rolling slowly" move and a "don't charge so much to where it's seen coming" move.

All-in-all, I want to be able to use these two moves in a 1-on-1 battle. I would hope that the fourth installment of this game and additional input from whoever worked with Sakurai this time around was a good sign that the characters may be better used. My question is... When do YOU use Sing and Rollout? For example: Using Sing after predicting someone's rolling, using Sing when someone has lag at the end of a move, etc. Maybe you even use it after doing rolls. Your opponent might expect you're trying to roll near them and Rest, so he shields. You, however, use Sing instead to throw him off. These are the kind of things I mean. What are moments that you can share? How successful are you? If you've read all this, thanks for hearing me out!

 

[Jiggly]

I never use rollout, but I have been using sing a lot, trying to see its uses. Here are the ways I use sing.

1. Many people have been using the Approach > Air Dodge > Bair behind the enemy maneuver. I do this, except replace Bair with sing, so you can punish the utilt / stilt / U smash / S smash / grab.
2. Ledge cancel sing. Basic enough, won't work on smart opponents
3. Certain moves. Lots of sonic's specials and dash Attack can be canceled with sing, along with Gannon's flame choke and falcon's raptor boost.
4. Out of shield. Take a hit, and instead of punishing with a grab or SHFF aerial, throw in a sing. Nice for high percents, to steal that KO instead of fishin for chipping damage
5. Approaching from head level. Often times of you approach from head level, the opponent will spot dodge in an attempt to dodge an aerial, but instead of attacking, throw out a sing to send them sleeping at the end of the spot dodge. This one is tricky and you can easily get punished if you don't do this one right.

 

[Chacrecon]

I'll put this into practice, currently I only make use of sing when Im close to the opponent, but not close enough to reliably rest. The sing usually hits and then I CAN rest.

 

[Lime Cultivist]

Idea for 3ds (not really):
Sing enough that your opponent mashing awake breaks their circle pad.

 

[MarioMeteor]

I used to think Sing was useless too. Until I actually used it. One of my favorite things to do is to use Sing when I get off the respawn platform. They never see it coming. If you know how to read your opponent Sing can be your free win card.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

I used to think Sing was useless too. Until I actually used it. One of my favorite things to do is to use Sing when I get off the respawn platform. They never see it coming. If you know how to read your opponent Sing can be your free win card.

Above 120%, it can. Otherwise, you have to rely on the inexperience of your opponent.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Above 120%, it can. Otherwise, you have to rely on the inexperience of your opponent.

It really depends on how viciously you mash. I've put people to sleep at 90% and killed them.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

It really depends on how viciously you mash. I've put people to sleep at 90% and killed them.

That's my point. If it depends on how they mash it's not really a "Free win card". If you do the work to land sing and they get out and kill you for it, that honestly feels awful.

Also, all you have to do to mash out as soon as possible is rotate the control stick as fast as you can. No button presses needed.

 

[MarioMeteor]

That's my point. If it depends on how they mash it's not really a "Free win card". If you do the work to land sing and they get out and kill you for it, that honestly feels awful.

Also, all you have to do to mash out as soon as possible is rotate the control stick as fast as you can. No button presses needed.

If you're using Sing at a percent where they can mash out and kill you you're doing something wrong. Most of the time Sing is a last-ditch or desperation move anyway, so you damn sure shouldn't be throwing it out casually. They have to be 90% or below for the sleep time to be short enough for you to get punished. If you're at like, 120%, you're definitely going to eat something regardless of whether you mash or not.

 

[The_Jiggernaut]

Yeah, you want to avoid getting punished for it. Don't forget that you also have to hit with the close hitbox of sing or else you're going to eat an fSmash in the end. Actually, I wonder if you always slept longer when closer to sing and it's not a recent change...

 

[MarioMeteor]

I hate it when this damn site copies posts. Would a delete button be too much to ask?

 

[DanielMota]

Sometimes, as soon as I respawn, I go towards the player and use Sing. Rolling I do it as a taunt. I'll slowly roll about. It looks cute!

 

[Darklink401]

Rollout is good for killing, but the sad fact is, the opponent can simply get you. Very often you will miss and get punished.

Sing is good cuz it can sleep Captain Falcon when he tries to falcon punch.

 

[CCCM89]

follow up a fair at mid to high damage with rollout, make sure you touch the floor before you hit them, though for the horizontal knockback. as long as you Fair low and it knocks them prone, you can usually guarantee a hit. similarly, a fair really high in the air at low to mid percentages into a partial rollout can net you a surprise kill.

 

[Putuk]

Interesting thing I noticed about Rollout is that a fully charged one won't be hit by Shulks Vision.
You'll go through him before he can hit you and you can hit him on the rebound.
Quite satisfying.

 

[JimmyTheCaterpillar]

I usually use Rollout when I'm trying to recover from the topleft/topright of the stage. It works pretty well, as a lot of people have trouble predicting where I'm going to land and can't really punish. More often than not, I actually get a hit in as well.

I don't like to use Sing very often, because it just doesn't seem like worth the risk. I might do it when I still have the invincibility from being KO'd to try my luck, but otherwise nah. I know there are a lot of instances where it pays off, but I just don't trust myself enough yet as a Jigglypuff player to start attempting them.

Rest? Of course I use Rest. I won't lie, when I get KO'd, most of the time it's because of my getting greedy with it, but I'm working on it.

I use Pound a lot. It's a staple in Jiggs' game in my opinion. It's really great for setting up for aerials and just a good option for spacing in general, what with the great range and lasting hitbox.

 

[Yoroi]

For sing I use it as a move canceller when someone's going for a slow or predictable attack or if I catch them off guard from behind. Sing's hilariously effective against characters like sonic and even works against other jigglypuff's rollouts. They just slide right through you across the stage if it's rollout or raptor strike.

For rollout I like to use it as a fakeout/recovery move because you can fire yourself onto the ledge if you hit it just right and when my opponents think I'm about to ram them they go for a smash attack when I just grab the ledge or they back up and I ram them with it unexpectedly. It's a grand finish, rollout and rest are my best means of K.O's. Rollout is a great fakeout move and if you know where it's going to stop you can even spot dodge and sing and nail a foe with rest. And after conditioning your opponent into thinking you never use rollout straightforwardly you can just roll right at them and get a surprise K.O.

Jigglypuff OP, yo.

 

[sparkyb]

If I can catch someone off guard when the are edge guarding or something I can try to use sing. Sometimes it works, sometimes not. I'll have to keep practicing for viable uses for it.

 

[gameplayzero]

I use sing when my opponent and I are right by the edge or if they keep doing the same getup option off stage.There is little they can do if you space it properly and if they are the ones closest to the edge they might freak out and roll right into it. Don't rely on it too much unless they are too dumb to learn from their mistakes or roll too much. Its gonna work a couple of times, but any smart opponent will see through it.

Only do this at higher percents when its killing time or 2v2s.

 

[Jay-kun]

I use sing when my opponent and I are right by the edge or if they keep doing the same getup option off stage.There is little they can do if you space it properly and if they are the ones closest to the edge they might freak out and roll right into it. Don't rely on it too much unless they are too dumb to learn from their mistakes or roll too much. Its gonna work a couple of times, but any smart opponent will see through it.

Only do this at higher percents when its killing time or 2v2s.

You say "little they can do"...take a C.Falcon. He is on the ledge. You sing. He knees you.

 

[drakeirving]

Yeah. In general any ledge drop - double jump - aerial is an obvious punish since they need to be grounded for Sing to work. I mean you do end with "any smart opponent will see through it", but it's like why even bother unless you're just toying with them anyways.

 

[gameplayzero]

You say "little they can do"...take a C.Falcon. He is on the ledge. You sing. He knees you.

obviously you aren't going to do it if they aren't going to make a move. If you prematurely do it and they are patient then GG. Thats why I said "if they keep doing the same get-up option on the ledge" then you can do it once or twice. Though the only get up option that will work with sing is the normal one and rolling one. Attack get up obviously won't work and if you see them trying to attack the ledge then you would be foolish to try to sing them.

Yeah. In general any ledge drop - double jump - aerial is an obvious punish since they need to be grounded for Sing to work. I mean you do end with "any smart opponent will see through it", but it's like why even bother unless you're just toying with them anyways.

Thats not a smart idea. Thats why I specifically said "if they do the same get up option". You use it against predictable opponents. Not just randomly. Just like with roll reads if you aren't feeling confident about timing the rest punish. Singing is much safer if you know the roll is coming. I know some of you guys dismiss sing, but in the right situations it still has its uses. We all still get hit by silly moves from time to time (falcon punches for instance) or moves that are so stupidly obvious but we run into them (forward smashes), so lets avoid the whole "thats still not going to work" argument. We are humans after all . Plus I've done it "smartly" from time to time.

 

[Jay-kun]

obviously you aren't going to do it if they aren't going to make a move. If you prematurely do it and they are patient then GG. Thats why I said "if they keep doing the same get-up option on the ledge" then you can do it once or twice. Though the only get up option that will work with sing is the normal one and rolling one. Attack get up obviously won't work and if you see them trying to attack the ledge then you would be foolish to try to sing them.



Thats not a smart idea. Thats why I specifically said "if they do the same get up option". You use it against predictable opponents. Not just randomly. Just like with roll reads if you aren't feeling confident about timing the rest punish. Singing is much safer if you know the roll is coming. I know some of you guys dismiss sing, but in the right situations it still has its uses. We all still get silly moves from time to time (falcon punches for instance) or moves that are so stupidly obvious but we run into them (forward smashes), so lets avoid the whole "thats still not going to work" argument. We are humans after all . Plus I've done it "smartly" from time to time.

Not really. i'm not trying to brag, but pros like me never make those "mistakes' :/
Don't know what you were talking about...
What COULD happen is if an opponent whiffs an aerial and you use sing <--that is THE most successful way to use it in tournaments.~<3

 

[Quarium]

I usually take quite a few victories using rest on for glory. What I do is not use it during the entirety of the match and on the second stock I try to be defensive so my opponent builds confidence and and rushes to attack all the time, if you start noticing their habits you can land a good sing at high percent and just rest them or forward smash, it feels great. Rollout is usually good to use rarely as well, as there at times the enemies just won't expect it or they get confident enough to use an attack with a lot of lag if they see you being shy with approaches, these are super risky though and they are good to use with mind games or just to really get your opponent salty and messing up their morale so they start being sloppy.

 

[gameplayzero]

Not really. i'm not trying to brag, but pros like me never make those "mistakes' :/
Don't know what you were talking about...
What COULD happen is if an opponent whiffs an aerial and you use sing <--that is THE most successful way to use it in tournaments.~<3

who said anything about fighting pros? Totally off subject. We are just discussing the possible uses of sing, not the BEST uses. And yes pros do make mistakes. Nakat kept rolling constantly against false this one match and kept getting punished hard for it. M2k (the proiest of pros) got hit 3 times by a falcon punch from zero. You'd be lying to say you haven't made silly mistakes like that. It may not happen often, but it happens to all of us at some point where we something coming or someone just does a really laggy move, but we still get hit by it.


and what quarium said was exactly what I just said about using it on predictable opponents at high percents. I just named some scenarios to where it "could" be used. It seems like at this point you are just arguing just for the sake of arguing and I'm not interested in since I hate conflict lol. Lets just discuss the uses of sing and rollout .

 

[Jay-kun]

who said anything about fighting pros? Totally off subject. We are just discussing the possible uses of sing, not the BEST uses. And yes pros do make mistakes. Nakat kept rolling constantly against false this one match and kept getting punished hard for it. M2k (the proiest of pros) got hit 3 times by a falcon punch from zero. You'd be lying to say you haven't made silly mistakes like that. It may not happen often, but it happens to all of us at some point where we something coming or someone just does a really laggy move, but we still get hit by it.


and what quarium said was exactly what I just said about using it on predictable opponents at high percents. I just named some scenarios to where it "could" be used. It seems like at this point you are just arguing just for the sake of arguing and I'm not interested in since I hate conflict lol. Lets just discuss the uses of sing and rollout .

I dont mean to be harsh but maybe your feeble mind no comprendo what I am saying. I dont make mistakes, everything is with a purpose. If you make mistakes gfy. Just don't try to make your statement justly by name-calling others.
What is the name of the thread? When do You use sing and rollout? How successful are you?
Now let's
not respond if you REALLY hate conflict please ignore or accept.
As mentioned be4, I do not mean to be harsh, I am just trying to get my point through. Ty