What Would Get You Guys Interested in Project M?

[Raccoon Chuck]

SD remix anybody????

I'd try some SD Remix once may Wii's setup for it.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

SD remix anybody????

Now theres a fun game :D

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I do agree that Project M's not perfect.....yet.
1. The physics need some slight tweaks.
2. Sonic
3.Some Characters still need slight buffs, Veterans and Other-wise.
4. Give Lucario a buttery smooth feel(might just be the unfinished physics refinements.)
However, the amount of things they've gotten right leaves my anticipation unfathomable.
1. Physics are getting pretty damn close.
2. Squirtle is a real kick to play.
3. Mario never fails to impress in that Doc hybrid fashion.
4. Shun's Melee head Fox texture pack(not relative, but awesome)
5. The Knee of Justice rises again.
6. All around character individuality.

 

[Qzzy]

It's a demo, and I've never been into that kind of play environment. Holding off until it's final before I decide if I actually want to pick it up.

Also, don't like the idea of trying to make everyone top tier like fox/falco. I think I would be more comfortable with the design goal of trying to make everyone High tier (marth/sheik/peach/Falcon/Jiggs kind of range) or just a little lower (Not as bad as mid.)

Stages are way too big.

Still hope it turns into something I play regularly and something I might go to tournaments every once in a while.

 

[Double Helix]

Honestly, although I can't speak from a developer point of veiw, I think they know there WILL be a tier list, but they seem to be patching it in such a way that we don't have HUGE numbers between character performance. Counters are a big part of competitive Smash, and something I can't see leaving.

Basically, what you are saying is, there will be a matchup chart.

I think my biggest problem with this as opposed to Melee is it changes what is being counterpicked. Melee is mostly a stage counter-picking game (though some characters DO hard counter others) but PM is gonna be more about the characters because, as Bones said, the stages are too big. I will add to it a little and say that most of the platform game (which is part of stage control I guess) seems diminished simply because the stages are bigger.

Anyways, in Melee, while some character choices in Melee (like mine, Ness) are clearly at a disadvantage, stages were ridiculously influential. I mean, I will use my main as an example. Unless you are Falcon, you probably won't go Dream Land against Ness. Yoshi's is awful because sometimes fly guys eat your recovery. It just sucks. But that is fine. I just won't go back there. But in this game, why would I stay Ness? I should go Puff because Falcon has predictable recovery. I will punish that instead. Ness may not be the greatest example due to the fact that he could be considered "negligible" but I feel it proved a point.

This game feels like a paradise for those who cannot do tech skill in Melee consistently (like me). I can play spacies all day on PM, but on Melee I consistently flub everything. I feel like tech skill is much much easier to pull off which, while it is not a bad thing, it could cause that clunky feel. In Melee, all the tech skill was smooth with the physics but in PM it feels forced.

All that said, I have nitpicked a bit much on a demo to a mod it seems, but I think that may be why I just never put down Melee.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I feel like tech skill is much much easier to pull off which, while it is not a bad thing, it could cause that clunky feel. In Melee, all the tech skill was smooth with the physics but in PM it feels forced.

This is my biggest problem with the game. The developers have done good with what they were working with, but the brawl engine is a piece of crap compared to melee.

 

[R2_GP]

Lucario man! he feels awesome now!

 

[CyberZixx]

I'm with you all on the stage issues. I much prefer the stage list in melee. In PM they are overall too big, some are barren, others have weird slants and overall I feel they are more "janky" and don't allow for the same level of stage control.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I'd opt for smaller stages, especially with stage control characters like Snake, Project M Zelda, and the like. Hopefully, future updates will eliminate any traces of the Brawl Engine during the Project M SD Card usage.

 

[Frame Perfect]

let's face it. project m is just a gateway game for melee...

 

[AppleAppleAZ]

I'll play it more after it's finished and I know that characters are not going to be changed. Seems rather pointless to try to master a game that could be totally different in a couple months.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

The key word is "Demo" 2.5, and Brawl hacking seems to evolve much quicker than Melee hacking. Honestly, I wouldn't be surprised if Project M winds up with a near exact replica of the Melee physics engine, as oppose to the floaty-as-hell "Hedgehog" engine.(I find the name ironic)

 

[JKJ]

I actually was interested in a debate over Project: M after my post, but nobody big in Project: M has replied to refute me.

#Disappointed.

 

[EpixAura]

I actually consider Project:M my favorite Smash game. Better balance, well designed characters, easily customizable in terms of music and textures, and very accurate physics compared to Melee. (I the physics aren't 100% perfect, but I feel like most of the complaints are just graphics-induced illusions or something similar.

That said, my problems are as follows:

1. Spacies. Of course they should be good, but I feel like they're still number one. If spacies are still the best characters, and everyone knows how to play them, it feels like there isn't incentive to play other characters. The way I see it, the three options for dealing with them are as follows: Nerf them (A huge turn-off for Melee vets), buff the rest of the cast to be on par with them (A lot of work, and there's just so much that could go wrong with that), or make characters specifically made to beat them (Could be very frustrating for spacie mains, but as long as the characters don't counter them ridiculously hard, I see this as the best solution). In addition, I feel like a lot of the new stages benefit spacies more than a lot of the cast.

2. Sonic. He's even more annoying than Puff by a pretty noticeable margin. Truth be told, I haven't had much experience playing as or against him, so I don't particularly know what to do about him.

3. Not enough players. I believe that if P:M gets enough players, it will grow exponentially. It's very well made, the few problems that it has can be corrected eventually, and it has numerous advantages over both Melee and Brawl in my opinion.

4. Miscellaneous minor problems. Balance, for one thing, although it's much more balanced than Melee or Brawl. The physics aren't entirely perfect, but they're way closer than I think people make them out to be. Recoveries are also very strong, but many of the high tiers in Melee had recovery that as just as good (Fox, Peach, Puff. The only high/top tier character with a 'bad' recovery would be Falcon.) Lastly some of the characters (arguably) don't seem particularly Melee-esque. Snake, Lucario, and Sonic are great examples, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, as both Snake and Lucario are among my favorite character designs. As long as it's not overdone, it's a very good thing.

Of course, like I said earlier, P:M is my favorite Smash game, so I don't mean any offense to game by this (in case my being so defensive of the game wasn't incredibly obvious already).

 

[JKJ]

I actually consider Project:M my favorite Smash game. Better balance, well designed characters, easily customizable in terms of music and textures, and very accurate physics compared to Melee. (I the physics aren't 100% perfect, but I feel like most of the complaints are just graphics-induced illusions or something similar.

That said, my problems are as follows:

1. Spacies. Of course they should be good, but I feel like they're still number one. If spacies are still the best characters, and everyone knows how to play them, it feels like there isn't incentive to play other characters. The way I see it, the three options for dealing with them are as follows: Nerf them (A huge turn-off for Melee vets), buff the rest of the cast to be on par with them (A lot of work, and there's just so much that could go wrong with that), or make characters specifically made to beat them (Could be very frustrating for spacie mains, but as long as the characters don't counter them ridiculously hard, I see this as the best solution). In addition, I feel like a lot of the new stages benefit spacies more than a lot of the cast.

2. Sonic. He's even more annoying than Puff by a pretty noticeable margin. Truth be told, I haven't had much experience playing as or against him, so I don't particularly know what to do about him.

3. Not enough players. I believe that if P:M gets enough players, it will grow exponentially. It's very well made, the few problems that it has can be corrected eventually, and it has numerous advantages over both Melee and Brawl in my opinion.

4. Miscellaneous minor problems. Balance, for one thing, although it's much more balanced than Melee or Brawl. The physics aren't entirely perfect, but they're way closer than I think people make them out to be. Recoveries are also very strong, but many of the high tiers in Melee had recovery that as just as good (Fox, Peach, Puff. The only high/top tier character with a 'bad' recovery would be Falcon.) Lastly some of the characters (arguably) don't seem particularly Melee-esque. Snake, Lucario, and Sonic are great examples, but I don't necessarily think that's a bad thing, as both Snake and Lucario are among my favorite character designs. As long as it's not overdone, it's a very good thing.

Of course, like I said earlier, P:M is my favorite Smash game, so I don't mean any offense to game by this (in case my being so defensive of the game wasn't incredibly obvious already).

1. Spacies are in no way the best in P:M. Absolutely not. Characters already have been made to counter them; in fact, one of my main issues with P:M is the big F**K YOU it issued to spacies. "We didn't like them being good in Melee, so we are going to develop ten new characters that all have ridiculous easy combos on them. And then we'll make Wolf, who has all the good parts about fox and falco, his spotdodge is god, and his recovery is leagues above fox and falco's. Oh, and he can combo Fastfallers as well as mid weights with relative ease." Wolf is an objectively better spacie than fox or falco. They gave many characters intentional chaingrabs on fox and falco. Every single new character was given preset tools to fight fox and falco. THe only reason they are performing better is because they have 11 years of metagame development behind them, and the P:M characters have what, five months behind them?

2. Agreed, sonic is the best character in the game, hands down.

3. More players? Every Melee noob and their mother plays P:M cuz its easier to perform better, as P:M rewards spammy playstyles and eliminates punish opportunities for the player's opponent even if the player is playing terribly. P:M is easier, and, since easy, technical (seeming) gameplay is appealing to noobs, its scene is already astoundingly large . P:M is a great crutch for those who cannot handle Melee. P:M tournies (locally) get a huge turnout compared to melee locals, at least in my region.

4.BALANCE? HA! For a game that prides itself on balance, they have succeeded in about as much balance as Melee has, and Melee is heavily imbalanced. The physics are a work in progress, but right now, they suck a**. If playing melee is equivalent to typing on a keyboard, P:M is typing with closed fists: Sloppy, imprecise, and frustratingly impossible to be consistent with.
Puff and Peach are the only Melee characters with even COMPRABLE recoveries to some in P:M. That is to say, they have very good recoveries. Compared to P:M, every melee high tier excluding those two has a SH*T recovery. And btw, are you forgetting about Falco's recovery? Icies? And the designs of Sonic, Snake, and Lucario are not only not melee-esque, they are not Smash-esque. They take every concept that makes smash a unique fighter and smushes it into a bleary and unfocused mess of gamebreaking mechanics. You also forgot to add Ivysaur to that list.
They are overdone, and its not a good thing.

 

[Yung Mei]

are you trying to launch a massive debate with a dude who just listed his personal problems with PM

 

[JKJ]

Maybe.
I just want a debate
I have a lot to say on the topic


Also, I disagree with nearly every one of his problems with the game.

Spacies aren't number 1, in any way, P:M has a huge playerbase already, and its not more balanced than Melee or Brawl.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I'd say that it is most definitely more balanced than Brawl, and people have been able to combo Spacies without a big problem for years. The thing that keeps Spacies in the ring is the fact that they use their own combo prowess as a kind of offensive defense, but once they get grabbed etc.....they get combo'd REALLY bad.

 

[EpixAura]

1. Spacies are in no way the best in P:M. Absolutely not. Characters already have been made to counter them; in fact, one of my main issues with P:M is the big F**K YOU it issued to spacies. "We didn't like them being good in Melee, so we are going to develop ten new characters that all have ridiculous easy combos on them. And then we'll make Wolf, who has all the good parts about fox and falco, his spotdodge is god, and his recovery is leagues above fox and falco's. Oh, and he can combo Fastfallers as well as mid weights with relative ease." Wolf is an objectively better spacie than fox or falco. They gave many characters intentional chaingrabs on fox and falco. Every single new character was given preset tools to fight fox and falco. THe only reason they are performing better is because they have 11 years of metagame development behind them, and the P:M characters have what, five months behind them?

2. Agreed, sonic is the best character in the game, hands down.

3. More players? Every Melee noob and their mother plays P:M cuz its easier to perform better, as P:M rewards spammy playstyles and eliminates punish opportunities for the player's opponent even if the player is playing terribly. P:M is easier, and, since easy, technical (seeming) gameplay is appealing to noobs, its scene is already astoundingly large . P:M is a great crutch for those who cannot handle Melee. P:M tournies (locally) get a huge turnout compared to melee locals, at least in my region.

4.BALANCE? HA! For a game that prides itself on balance, they have succeeded in about as much balance as Melee has, and Melee is heavily imbalanced. The physics are a work in progress, but right now, they suck a**. If playing melee is equivalent to typing on a keyboard, P:M is typing with closed fists: Sloppy, imprecise, and frustratingly impossible to be consistent with.
Puff and Peach are the only Melee characters with even COMPRABLE recoveries to some in P:M. That is to say, they have very good recoveries. Compared to P:M, every melee high tier excluding those two has a SH*T recovery. And btw, are you forgetting about Falco's recovery? Icies? And the designs of Sonic, Snake, and Lucario are not only not melee-esque, they are not Smash-esque. They take every concept that makes smash a unique fighter and smushes it into a bleary and unfocused mess of gamebreaking mechanics. You also forgot to add Ivysaur to that list.
They are overdone, and its not a good thing.

1. The general consensus is that spacies are still number one, and there's even been a good deal of talk about nerfing them (although admittedly, given the attempt at a P:M matchup chart, general consensus may not be the most reliable thing to go on). Still, while I can see spacies potentially losing their number 1 spot, I can't see them as being anything less than top tier, and I don't really see any characters with a solid advantage on Fox at the moment, especially since being able to do a dashing Usmash easier was a larger-than-expected indirect buff.

2. *Hums Sonic music*

3. I haven't seen P:M getting nearly as much attention as Melee or Brawl in my area (to say nothing about larger-scale tournaments).

4. Look at Puff and Marth. It's pretty well acknowledged that despite having next to no changes from Melee, they've dropped on the tier list. Falcon is also a good example. Despite having received minor but noticeable buffs, he's generally placed lower on the tier list than in Melee.
As for the physics, I haven't seen people have an awful lot of trouble switching from game to game, even when they have no experience in P:M in the first place. I personally have had no trouble being consistent in P:M. I find things to be a good deal easier than in Melee.
In regards to recovery, please don't imply Fox's recovery is bad. Falco's is decent at the very least, although it doesn't compare to a lot of P:M's. Low range, yes, but very versatile, and difficult to edgeguard without the right tools. M2K has shown us that Sheiks recovery shines in an area other than recovering, and Marth's, while fairly meh, still covers a lot of distance with Dancing Blade. Unlike a lot of P:M recoveries, it still has offensive purposes as well (although I suppose this relates back to what you meant by some things being overly simplified). Ice Climbers, I just kind of consider "Ice Climber Tier" rather than high or mid tier, so I just kind of subconsciously left them out. Either way, most of the characters with recoveries on par with Puff and Peach have such ridiculous recoveries because they lack something else, with a few exceptions.
And yes, I did forget to add Ivysaur to that list. I like him too, though. Still, I don't think any of these characters are all that less Smash-esque than Ice Climbers or Puff, and they are certainly much better designed.

Maybe.
I just want a debate
I have a lot to say on the topic

I second this. It's all in good fun.

 

[Theftz22]

When everyone's super, no one will be. [evil laughter]

But for real, I think the proper role for pm is to bring people from brawl to melee.

 

[Shadow Huan]

lol of course Fox is still the best character in P:M

it's freaking melee Fox. they gave more characters specific ways to deal with Falco's lasers than there are "counters" to Fox lol. I will say that it's probably a little more stage dependant than it is in melee tho

my issues with P:M

this will be a single point list 'cause overall I like it lol.

1: nearly no changes to top melee vets. this is literally me beating a dead horse now, but tweak some stuff. add new animations, give them a brawl and/or 64 move or two. obviously balancing figures in, but would Melee Falco players really not play Project M Falco if he had his brawl fsmash animation? Why does Falco's Dair continue to be a full half second of "**** you"? esp when mango and Dr pp both went and played Pal Falco and adjusted no problem? Fox is trickier because he has changed very little throughout the games so far, but a tweaked animation or two wouldn't hurt imo. do spacie players have a problem learning something new about a familiar character? none that I have talked to in person have expressed any issues with these so i somehow doubt it.

Why does Marth need two moves that have the same hitboxes and basically do the same thing, only one is very situational/stays out a bit longer and the other kills without being charged and is generally better in every way, except that you have to space it? on top of the brawl animation being the way that he does the move in his canon anyways? basically the only answer I got to the shieldbreaker question last time i asked was "Because Melee" lol. before my copy of Project M crashed it was giving me brawl's shieldbreaker on melee Marth, and it worked just fine and actually looked pretty badass... until the game started crashing constantly lol ._. also the frame data on brawl Marth's upb startup is better than melee's, that would be a very simple buff. unless it's already like that lol

other examples I would use is giving falcon his 64 fsmash, and ganon at least one move that involves his sword, and perhaps widening the cloneish gap between them a bit more.

but yeah, I know that this is a more or less "casual player" rant. but that's what i am dang it lol.

feel free to ignore, flame, whatever, I don't care lol

 

[Divinokage]

Falcon got nerfed not buffed.. His throw combos don't even work nearly as well like in Melee. Idk if its because of the way weight works or something... He has less setups and forced to play the patient game which isnt always favorable for him.

It's also harder to edgeguard a good part of the cast which tips the balance quite a bit for a lot of characters. I mean the character design is good overall but the interaction of that design with the stages can become pretty ridiculous.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

The worst part is that Hyrule 64 doesn't have tornadoes. Seriously PMBR get your **** together

 

[SunJester]

ITT: Melee vets get protective about their game.

Also regarding johns about new characters.

Spoiler

Except Sonic, 'cause, jebus.

 

[Dark Lady]

Sonic is enough to turn me away atm. I'm glad that he's really technical, but he's easily almost Meta-Knight status in P:M; with a bit more skill involved.

And buff Zelda plox.

 

[Divinokage]

ITT: Melee vets get protective about their game.

Also regarding johns about new characters.

Spoiler

Except Sonic, 'cause, jebus.

Learn the game and matchups properly before making ignorant statements.

 

[MountainGoat]

Project M is just too much of a cluster**** for me. Changes constantly, has so many random and wacky mechanics, so many possibly viable characters it just feels random when I play instead of like melee when I'm playing matchups that are well developed, technical, and extremely difficult. It's way better than brawl but I'm not that much of a fan.

 

[Raccoon Chuck]

I'm sorry, but I kinda loled at the whole "Sonic is technical" thing. But yeah, he still Jebus.

 

[Soft Serve]

Falcon got nerfed not buffed.. His throw combos don't even work nearly as well like in Melee. Idk if its because of the way weight works or something... He has less setups and forced to play the patient game which isnt always favorable for him.

It's also harder to edgeguard a good part of the cast which tips the balance quite a bit for a lot of characters. I mean the character design is good overall but the interaction of that design with the stages can become pretty ridiculous.

Throw combos got messed up due to how brawl handles throw and throw release points iirc. It also made fox's uthrow-uair not connect as reliably, and makes marth's spacie chain grabs awkward at some percents.


I love project M, but a lot of the complaints about it in this thread are warranted. Although I have no experience with 2.5 sonic, his hit boxes and priority are pitiful. For a vortex character, he has loads of trouble with projectiles and lingering hit boxes. Link just walks all over him.

Someone beat me to posting the brokentier T-shirt, man.

 

[thespymachine]

- It's currently being updated, so I feel better putting most of my investment in Melee (because, 1, the 'feel' can change dramatically, and, 2, I want to know what character to pick up for sure).
- Lack of light-shield and wavedash OoS

And, I forget I own a Wii sometimes, lol.

Honestly, I don't see much wrong with it, especially since they're still working on it. I can't wait to see the final product.

 

[PhantasyStar]

As someone who has been playing PM a bit more than Melee recently a few things have struck out to me (this is all just a smash nobodies opinion):

1.I started playing PM last year because I heard that it was supposed to be more character balanced although a lot of characters are not even to a lot of the other characters in the game (Ness/Pikachu/Lucas/ZSS) and are simply gimicks. A big draw for me was that I would be able to play characters like Lucas and would be a fair matchup to Fox/Falco at least. But it's not.

2. Obviously this game does not feel like Melee which is shown greatly in the characters (Fox/JigglyPuff/Falcon) so I can understand why a lot of Melee players aren't crazy to pick it up.

3. Certain stages are just entirely too big which result in just going back to Melee stages.

4. I've seen through the forums a lot of people are fine with the Melee mains they've invested years to, so why make the switch

5. Sonic (I remember in 2.1 a major problem was also Ike).

6. It's still a demo.

 

[Europhoria]

I'd be more interested if new characters didn't all get some combination of multiple jumps + ways to stall in the air +some kind of float mechanism +the ability to do anything after their up+b >_>

I just think the way the game is being designed moving forwards reflects who's making it lol (see sheiks down throw - the logic for the change to it is good only if you apply it across the board, but the opposite happened lol). Physics engine is whatever. As long as the promise to fix it is there I would at least still be interested/hyped.

I don't think just bloating moves with invincibility is a good idea either. I'm kinda curious if strong bad put that forwards or if it was someone else and he just adapted it to DK.

 

[oukd]

1. maybe if PM was more responsive? idk i sweeeaarrr it feels like its a little laggier than melee for some reason even with the new updates. MIGHT JUST BE ME SO IGNORE THIS POINT COMPLETELY

2. a finalized release would make me play it a lot more. right now i just dabble around in it for funsies

3. if you guys get lightshield to work i would be pretty happy

game balance isnt an issue to me - stuff like this should be completely up to the devs and im ok with playing within their rules/modifications and letting the metagame run with it over time. with that said

4. i think recoveries should be nerfed a little overall

5. do a pal-type nerf on fox/falco too. saying this as a falco main (if that means anything)

im hoping all characters will have a reasonably viable neutral game and punishment game, but i havent played/watched pm enough to see if this is the case

The ledges still feel Brawlish, with Sakurai reaching his hand out to grab you from far away.

lmao perfect

 

[dRevan64]

I've got a list
1. fix the physics, they're clearly not all there yet, I'm sure that's WAY more difficult than I'm making it sound too
2. make fox as hard as he is in melee so I don't feel bad playing him in pm
3. fix resets so they work like melee
4. make judge and turnips not random, yeah I know they're not really unbalanced in melee but it would soothe my aching semi-autistic fury if you managed to make those work without RNG
5. rebalancing characters–obviously that's an ongoing process, but you know. I'd like homing attack to be less free, personally, but balance is mostly up to the PM devs and that I trust them with very much

that's basically everything
I really truly do enjoy project m at this point but it's hard to play it for more than like an hour without thinking damn, I could be playing melee instead right now, and then I go back to melee and everything works *just right*
obviously you don't want the game to be identical to melee but the physics really should be as smooth as they are in it, and once you've accomplished that (is it even possible in brawl's engine?) then that'll be the game for me

The PM devs are doing a good job with taking the platform fighter genre and doing what sakurai chose not to–expanding on and advancing the established mechanics to make the game deeper. Melee was the groundwork for what could've been a brilliant progression of game design that unfortunately was eschewed in favor of brawl, and PM is doing what I've wanted to be done for years. They don't have it perfected yet by any means but I feel like, with some work, it can be done.

And if not this is good experiencing for making a smash-style platform fighter with no ties to nintendo and distributing it independently

 

[Battlecow]

-Take out randomness

it's ****ty in competitive melee, people put up with it because no other option. I'm a peach player and dear god if I ever see a PM tourney won with a stitch face I'll find Strong Bad and force feed him cake until he's morbidly obese.

nerf a lot of recoveries a lot like everyone else said

and more than that make the edgeguards interesting and multidimensional. Like edgeguarding spacies, not edgeguarding sheik where you can only sit on the edge then hop up and bop her if you can and the only factors are edgehogging vs getting up and regrabbing at the right times.

 

[Bones0]

it's ****ty in competitive melee, people put up with it because no other option. I'm a peach player and dear god if I ever see a PM tourney won with a stitch face I'll find Strong Bad and force feed him turnips until he's morbidly obese.

Fixed.

 

[Giygacoal]

1. Spacies are in no way the best in P:M. Absolutely not. Characters already have been made to counter them; in fact, one of my main issues with P:M is the big F**K YOU it issued to spacies. "We didn't like them being good in Melee, so we are going to develop ten new characters that all have ridiculous easy combos on them. And then we'll make Wolf, who has all the good parts about fox and falco, his spotdodge is god, and his recovery is leagues above fox and falco's. Oh, and he can combo Fastfallers as well as mid weights with relative ease." Wolf is an objectively better spacie than fox or falco. They gave many characters intentional chaingrabs on fox and falco. Every single new character was given preset tools to fight fox and falco. THe only reason they are performing better is because they have 11 years of metagame development behind them, and the P:M characters have what, five months behind them?

2. Agreed, sonic is the best character in the game, hands down.

3. More players? Every Melee noob and their mother plays P:M cuz its easier to perform better, as P:M rewards spammy playstyles and eliminates punish opportunities for the player's opponent even if the player is playing terribly. P:M is easier, and, since easy, technical (seeming) gameplay is appealing to noobs, its scene is already astoundingly large . P:M is a great crutch for those who cannot handle Melee. P:M tournies (locally) get a huge turnout compared to melee locals, at least in my region.

4.BALANCE? HA! For a game that prides itself on balance, they have succeeded in about as much balance as Melee has, and Melee is heavily imbalanced. The physics are a work in progress, but right now, they suck a**. If playing melee is equivalent to typing on a keyboard, P:M is typing with closed fists: Sloppy, imprecise, and frustratingly impossible to be consistent with.
Puff and Peach are the only Melee characters with even COMPRABLE recoveries to some in P:M. That is to say, they have very good recoveries. Compared to P:M, every melee high tier excluding those two has a SH*T recovery. And btw, are you forgetting about Falco's recovery? Icies? And the designs of Sonic, Snake, and Lucario are not only not melee-esque, they are not Smash-esque. They take every concept that makes smash a unique fighter and smushes it into a bleary and unfocused mess of gamebreaking mechanics. You also forgot to add Ivysaur to that list.
They are overdone, and its not a good thing.

1. I don't think you understand what the term "objective" means. However, it's my opinion (and the PMBR's intention) that Wolf is the least stupidly effective yet best designed and most fun to play with/against spacie. His laser and down-air are both worse and harder to use than Falco's. His shine isn't as dumb as Fox's. His smash attacks are a lot weaker than Fox's and Falco's; in general, it's a lot harder for him to land finishing blows. So if you really think Wolf has ALL the good parts of Fox and Falco, then you've probably tried a different game. Also, Fox and Falco were ALREADY combo food in Melee.

3. Project M is supposed to be a bit more offensively-oriented than Melee. If punishing isn't always completely easy, the the PMBR is doing something right. Also, Falco's laser is still one of the most spam-rewarding moves in the game.

4. Didn't you say in #3 that P:M is easier to perform better in? How is it that you now think P:M feels "sloppy, imprecise, and frustratingly impossible to be consistent with"? Also, you clearly haven't tried recovering with many characters in P:M. Zero and Mario in particular have good recovery options. Also, you're just too narrow-minded about the character designs. Snake and Sonic were in Brawl, so they do qualify as "Smash-esque". Lucario is just badass; I don't understand why people need to complain about his playstyle. Really, Project M IS better balanced than Melee. You need to get to the lab and learn how to play the game properly.

Project M is just too much of a cluster**** for me. Changes constantly, has so many random and wacky mechanics, so many possibly viable characters it just feels random when I play instead of like melee when I'm playing matchups that are well developed, technical, and extremely difficult. It's way better than brawl but I'm not that much of a fan.

So you're basically saying "I don't know how to play the new matchups now that most of the characters are actually viable, therefore it feels random". Lol.

 

[Bad Cupboard]

3. Project M is supposed to be a bit more offensively-oriented than Melee.

HAHA
WHAT

 

[Giygacoal]

HAHA
WHAT

I'm not joking. That's what it says on the official website. Of course, it's a work in progress, but that's the goal to be reached.

"The balance of offense and defense changes depending on the exact matchup and playstyle, but overall tends to favor offense slightly." -Official Website, project goals

Unless the PMBR changed its goals suddenly...

 

[Bad Cupboard]

If you read it it says that it's an aspect of Melee that they're trying to carry over to Project M, not an improvement they're trying to make