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What to ban? What to counterpick? Discussion!
- Thread starter Timbers
- Start date
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
....what? How does THAT make sense? He can be potentially be dragged to death at 0%
Nurotasama
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 465
I have no clue why he has Norfair listed as Bowser's best stage, especially considering no one in that thread even mentioned Bowser stages at all.
MysticKenji
Smash Master
It helps to look through character boards.
Nurotasama
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- May 29, 2008
- Messages
- 465
I still don't see how it helps him too much. He can usmash through the platforms on the corners and it makes it easier to dodge projectile camping from Wolf and the like, but thats really all I see that can help him on that stage.
MysticKenji
Smash Master
Bowser loves platforms and this stage is made entirely of them.
Only certain characters can camp well here and Lucario is not one of them.
There are 6 ledges and 10 platforms so Bowser should always recover.
You do not benefit enough from platforms to CP a stage that is made entirely of them.
Lava helps Bowser kill you.
The stage layout favors him.
There is no reason to CP Norfair vs a Bowser.
Only certain characters can camp well here and Lucario is not one of them.
There are 6 ledges and 10 platforms so Bowser should always recover.
You do not benefit enough from platforms to CP a stage that is made entirely of them.
Lava helps Bowser kill you.
The stage layout favors him.
There is no reason to CP Norfair vs a Bowser.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Personally, I would counterpick Final Destination against Bowser, if not for his grab release. Even so, it's a stage that prevents Bowsercide with its width, and allows us to show off our air superiority. It also allows for gimping, which Bowsers hate.
But yes, any stage that allows Lucario to combo Bowser into a gimp easily is a good counterpick, and Final Destination is a good Lucario stage anyway.
But yes, any stage that allows Lucario to combo Bowser into a gimp easily is a good counterpick, and Final Destination is a good Lucario stage anyway.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
Isn't it a good idea to ban Norfair against Pit?
I would go to Frigate against Boswer, maybe Japes. He was is grab releasing you then i would go to Japes and camp on the outer most platforms and spam AS. He can't duck under them.
I would go to Frigate against Boswer, maybe Japes. He was is grab releasing you then i would go to Japes and camp on the outer most platforms and spam AS. He can't duck under them.
Timbers
check me out
Lucario is at 130%. His aurasphere is capable of shutting down every approach you have at that percent, dealing a disgusting amount of damage. He's capable of killing you at 110% at any point of the stage.
What are you going to do about it. Sonic has no safe fulljump approach, something that is normally a pain in the *** to deal with as Lucario. Lucario is able to keep Sonic in front of him the entire match, making his defense a very difficult one to get through. As Sonic, your low priority approaches will be screwed by ftilt, aurasphere, fsmash, and even fair.
You're more than welcome to post the video, but you should be more than prepared to hear criticism.
Japes for Bowser sounds pretty good, however it's generally a stage you want to take a character to that lacks a decent aerial approach. Bowser's fair has a substantial amount of range on it, and firebreath I'd imagine would be pretty annoying to deal with considering you're trapped on the small platform. I can't say anything else about this, as my knowledge on Bowser is minimal.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
I don't like taking Snakes to Japes. That stage is so dark that you can't see his C4 and nades sometimes. Sometimes it's hard to hear it also because tournies are so freaken loud.
Timbers
check me out
Japes is still one of the best stages to take Snake though. I've never really had a problem with the c4. They tend to place it on the main platform a lot, so just look out for it and avoid it. You really should be abusing the sides most of the time anyways.
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Yea, i havent looked around, so don't pester me if this has been said.
But for diddy-
Counterpick: Norfair,
Norfair is multi leveled, and that will put a hinderence to his bananas. Will it stop them completely? No. But less banana trouble is a good thing. Secondly, diddy has a harder time killing then lucario, so at Norfair, Cario will have a little more % stashed away.
Plus the lava will help lucario more then diddy (adding %, "resetting the field"), and theres many ledges for both of them to save them selves on.
Ban: FD
Its flat, open game for bananas.
*on a side note, yes not every diddy uses banana's. And yes majority of these stages are because of bananas, but banana's are great and annoying at the same time. And any stage that can alter the ability of bananas is great.
-t2
But for diddy-
Counterpick: Norfair,
Norfair is multi leveled, and that will put a hinderence to his bananas. Will it stop them completely? No. But less banana trouble is a good thing. Secondly, diddy has a harder time killing then lucario, so at Norfair, Cario will have a little more % stashed away.
Plus the lava will help lucario more then diddy (adding %, "resetting the field"), and theres many ledges for both of them to save them selves on.
Ban: FD
Its flat, open game for bananas.
*on a side note, yes not every diddy uses banana's. And yes majority of these stages are because of bananas, but banana's are great and annoying at the same time. And any stage that can alter the ability of bananas is great.
-t2
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
Against anyone who can't abuse the stage: Luigi's mansion.
If these stages are legal and you don't have reason to ban anything else, ban: Corneria, Green Greens
Against Ike: If you are going to counterpick Frigate, be careful when the stage flips unless you want to be star ko'd at any %. Otherwise it's a good counterpick. Luigi's is good, as is Jungle Japes. You want to be on a stage he can't kill you too quickly on. Ban Corneria and Green Greens. If either of these stages are already illegal, ban Delfino. Ike can abuse the walk offs better than you, and if you touch water you'll probably die.
Against Sonic: Go to as big of a stage as possible, but not too flat. If he doesn't ban it, or have any secondaries that can abuse it, there's no reason not to pick Luigi's Mansion. Yoshi's, Frigate, Japes, or any other stage you'd counterpick on any generic character works. Ban Rainbow Cruise (he can abuse it more than you can), and FD.
Against Marth: Anything big is good. Flat is also good. FD, Pictochat, Luigi's, Japes, etc. Ban Battlefield and Green Greens. Marth loves platforms and small stages.
If these stages are legal and you don't have reason to ban anything else, ban: Corneria, Green Greens
Against Ike: If you are going to counterpick Frigate, be careful when the stage flips unless you want to be star ko'd at any %. Otherwise it's a good counterpick. Luigi's is good, as is Jungle Japes. You want to be on a stage he can't kill you too quickly on. Ban Corneria and Green Greens. If either of these stages are already illegal, ban Delfino. Ike can abuse the walk offs better than you, and if you touch water you'll probably die.
Against Sonic: Go to as big of a stage as possible, but not too flat. If he doesn't ban it, or have any secondaries that can abuse it, there's no reason not to pick Luigi's Mansion. Yoshi's, Frigate, Japes, or any other stage you'd counterpick on any generic character works. Ban Rainbow Cruise (he can abuse it more than you can), and FD.
Against Marth: Anything big is good. Flat is also good. FD, Pictochat, Luigi's, Japes, etc. Ban Battlefield and Green Greens. Marth loves platforms and small stages.
o_O;
U-throw>jablock
edit:
F-throw>jablock
U-tilt>jablock
D-tilt (hit into ceiling) > jablock
Alus
Smash Champion
lylat is nice you cant forget that!
aside from the fact that bowser has like... no vertical game in his recovery.
it has lag in it... if he goes above the edge (without grabing it)with upB and you already charged a aura sphere its best to use it like at a close point... or you could F-smash or Dair (i dont know about dair)
his landing lag makes him easy to gimp and soon as he (in my case sense i cant jab->jab-> dtilt -> FP) lands above the edge like a fool jab-> jab-> dtilt-> SH->dair or whatever you want...
tch...hell... during his recovery you can just ES around the edge and grab the edge...
PS: Cant bowser jab out Aura sphers like ike and pit or only BAS?
Samuelson
Smash Lord
I think Lucario is effected by Lylat a lot more then Boozer. There are better stages to take Bowser to then Lylat IMO.
Alus
Smash Champion
i have no problems in lylat... well...now anyways
how is it a problem to lucario at all? and what does "IMO" stand up for?
Samuelson
Smash Lord
IMO = In My Opinion
It effects Lucario in a couple of ways. The stage tilts which makes it harder for us to use AS effectively and the stage destroys our recovery sometimes. The platforms on this stage really suck for us against some characters, Marth comes to my mind. This is a good stage to bring Wolf to but i wouldn't go here against any other character.
Timbers
check me out
this. while it is possible to tech the ceiling (and it's fairly easy given sonic's somewhat-laggy uthrow) it's better to not risk it. Mansion also encloses you towards the ground and gives you less room to work with. Something tells me this is a stage that Sonic can actually abuse.
I haven't played Sonics here, but whatever.
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
HGAGAHAGGAGAAA!!!!!! I CAN RESTRAIN NO LONGER!!
No "s".
Thank you.
It's MENOunderwater.
No "s".
Thank you.
Timbers
check me out
muh bad
Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
Sonic does well there against anyone not named R.O.B.
Azen Zagenite
Smash Champion
=^_^=
Battlefield might be good against Diddy. This one Diddy 2 stocked me on FD and then next match I 3 stocked him on BF lolllz.
Battlefield might be good against Diddy. This one Diddy 2 stocked me on FD and then next match I 3 stocked him on BF lolllz.
manhunter098
Smash Lord
D-air stall owns DKs down b, at least as far as platforms are concerned. Norfair I am not sure about, but as a DK second I can agree Lucario needs to avoid Brinstar, its pretty much DKs best stage, but more-so because its small and he can kill you there at incredibly low percents, and he can take advantage of the goo stuff to extend attack frames for things you really dont want to get hit by, EVER.
bludhoundz
Smash Ace
vs Marth..
Ban Lylat above all. It's his best stage, even better than BF.
Ban Lylat above all. It's his best stage, even better than BF.
Rapid_Assassin
Smash Master
I guess it depends on their play style, and how good you are at teching. Living to 300% is nice though, but only practical if they don't go for this (Most Sonics I've played don't).
Browny
Smash Hater
you know guys... its actually possible to destroy luigis mansion. there just about nothing stopping certain characters from running around taking it all down since you cant exactly camp with AS or that will bring ti down even faster
Timbers
check me out
Even if the mansion wasn't there, it'd still be a good stage for Lucario. Huge, flat stage. It'd basically be a Final Destination with a higher ceiling.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
I thought Snake benefited from BF. All those platforms do impede on counteraction against Snake's explosive set ups, plus i allows for his tilts to be moar amazing than they are to begin with.
Timbers
check me out
Snake is good on battlefield. He's also really good on lylat and brinstar.
Lucario is at least good on battlefield (kinda) whereas lylat and brinstar are living disasters.
Lucario is at least good on battlefield (kinda) whereas lylat and brinstar are living disasters.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
I could only imagine how much Snake would **** on Brinstar. I never gave it any thought until now...
deepseadiva
Bodybuilding Magical Girl
The Peach's have this going on so far:
Lucario
Counterpick: Corneria, Green Greens, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon, Pictochat, Yoshi's Island, Final Destination
Thought I'd share.
Lucario
Counterpick: Corneria, Green Greens, Rainbow Cruise
Ban: Luigi's Mansion, Frigate Orpheon, Pictochat, Yoshi's Island, Final Destination
Thought I'd share.