What second Bandai-Namco rep do you want?

Who do you want?

  • Agumon (Digimon)

    Votes: 23 12.0%
  • Heihachi Mishima (Tekken)

    Votes: 26 13.5%
  • Klonoa (Klonoa)

    Votes: 22 11.5%
  • KOS-MOS (Xenosaga)

    Votes: 29 15.1%
  • Lloyd Irving (Tales of Symphonia)

    Votes: 41 21.4%
  • Nightmare (Soulcalibur)

    Votes: 16 8.3%
  • Other

    Votes: 35 18.2%

  • Total voters
    192

Al-kīmiyā'

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#41
Mine pick is definitely KOS-MOS, though Heihachi would probably be the most likely choice. I first discovered Xenosaga after researching the company whom made Baten Kaitos--and eversince, I've been obsessed with the series. Sadly, though, I've never had the chance to play Xenosaga.

If we did get a Soul Calibur character, I'd want it to be Tira, since she would wield a totally unique weapon. Although, I don't know if Tira has appeared on a Nintendo console or not.
Tira has not appeared on a Nintendo console
When it comes to Soulcalibur. Nightmare is seen as the most recognizable. There's also Other so he fits into that.
But he's in Soul Calibur AND Tekken.
 

Gemini-Gene

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#43
For an Echo I would go with Ms. Pac-Man, and for a unique newcomer then I vote goes to Nightmare. As naive as I was during Smash 4 speculation I thought Nightmare was teased for a reveal when Final Destination was revealed. I speculated that each half of the stage was inspired by the Soul Calibur and Soul Edge swords. Even the stage and background transitions would be fitting for a final boss stage in a Soul game.
 

Gemini-Gene

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#46
Other: Yoshimitsu
He would function as both a Tekken, and Soul Calibur rep! What's not to like?
It would be pretty interesting if Yoshimitsu even had a special design for Smash Bros due to him always having a new design in Tekken and Soul sequels.
 

Standlord

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#50
I have to say Yoshimitsu too, I think I would main him instantly. Although I would love to have Nightmare too.

Lloyd could be interesting for having dual swords, and I like the guy even without having played any Tales game. I wouldn't be opposed to KOS-MOS either. I love Agumon but I feel he would be too much work for just one character (he would be a four in one if we want to do him justice, otherwise I think he would be too boring).
 
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#51
Tira has not appeared on a Nintendo console

But he's in Soul Calibur AND Tekken.
The Yoshimitsu you see in Tekken isn't the same one in Soulcalibur but just a lineage descendant from the same clan that's taken the mantle. Both Soulcalibur and Tekken are set in the same universe but in different time periods.
 
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Perkilator

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#52
https://nintendoeverything.com/yoshizumi-on-including-tales-characters-in-next-smash-bros-more/
Yo****o Higuchi was the director in charge of Tales of Symphonia, Lloyd's debut game.


I hope you realize that Tales has seen far more game sales than Digimon (not a surprise given that Digimon games barely average a quarter million sales per game). Tales has sold over 25 million units in mothership titles alone, it's the third biggest traditional JRPG behind Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest, has just as many mangas as Digimon and only one less anime, was considered for a ride at Universal Studios Japan alongside Sailor Moon, Final Fantasy, and Detective Conan (Digimon wasn't), and has an annual multi-day festival dedicated to it that's hosted in stadiums and sees over twenty thousand visitors every year. Tales games have been some of the most best selling titles on various consoles, and Tales is without a doubt one of the most high profile franchises in its genre. Lloyd's game alone has sold more copies than a quarter of the Digimon games have combined. You're definitely underestimating Tales here.
I love how nobody noticed the accidental censor in your quote.
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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#54
Digimon is still more iconic overall and far bigger as a literal series. It has tons of merchandise, manga, anime, etc. I don't know if it necessarily would outsell the Tales of series, though. A lot of the shows are so merchandise-driven that a lot of things can't happen due to this factor. For instance, Digimon Frontier only got upgrades past the "first two transformations" for two characters due to the toys being easier to sell. And the toys didn't sell that great even then. Digimon Xros Wars was one of the worst sales toys-wise too. The series is still not niche and quite iconic, regardless. It's just not as popular as it used to be(and being there's no defining game overall that was truly best to players, instead of many games that are arguably good depending the era of the fan), this makes some sense.
I'd keep in mind that Tales has a ton of merchandise as well. Looking at Wikipedia, I'm seeing around $2 billion for Digimon across the board. Tales has almost certainly broken that number as well - take 25 million units sold for mothership titles, drop the average price from $60 to $50 to account for potential sales and discounts, and we're already sitting at 1.25 billion without counting the two dozen escort titles (including several mobile games), any of the manga, any of the animes, any of the movies, any of the pachislot stuff, any merchandise, or the festival (20k visitors every year, ticket prices range from $69 to $127) - and that's discounting anything in the last two years, as well as the fact that one of the most popular Tales titles is about to be re-released on the Switch. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that Tales has grossed more than Digimon all in all.

Between that and the evidence we have that Tales has permeated japanese society more than Digimon (Festival, USJ ride consideration, cameos), I'd say that the only area in which Digimon might actually have Tales beat is international reach thanks to the success of the early animes.
 

Ahm Skittish!

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#56
I'd keep in mind that Tales has a ton of merchandise as well. Looking at Wikipedia, I'm seeing around $2 billion for Digimon across the board. Tales has almost certainly broken that number as well - take 25 million units sold for mothership titles, drop the average price from $60 to $50 to account for potential sales and discounts, and we're already sitting at 1.25 billion without counting the two dozen escort titles (including several mobile games), any of the manga, any of the animes, any of the movies, any of the pachislot stuff, any merchandise, or the festival (20k visitors every year, ticket prices range from $69 to $127) - and that's discounting anything in the last two years, as well as the fact that one of the most popular Tales titles is about to be re-released on the Switch. I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to hear that Tales has grossed more than Digimon all in all.

Between that and the evidence we have that Tales has permeated japanese society more than Digimon (Festival, USJ ride consideration, cameos), I'd say that the only area in which Digimon might actually have Tales beat is international reach thanks to the success of the early animes.
That's why I said iconic. Digimon has a serious head start and more overall influence in the world. Tales of has an issue of being niche to a degree(though that is clearly changing) due to the JRPG thing a bit and not appealing to nearly as many people.

I actually was saying Tales of likely had more overall sales too. Mostly cause a lot of the Digimon toys(no, I don't mean the original Tamagotchi-like video games) sold like crap. They're not high quality.

I don't know how Tales of influenced JRPG's as a whole, to be fair. I'm sure it did in some way. Digimon has influenced Pokemon a bit too via Mega Evolution, which is clearly an ideal concept that Digimon did first. Digimon wasn't even influenced by Pokemon. They both had the same influence, based upon popular monsters being raised, a huge concept(I believe both were after Persona, which did it first and popularized the idea). Did you know Breeding as a mechanic started with Dragon Warrior? That actually influenced other series to do so. This includes the idea of gaining new moves via breeding only. Another thing Digimon did first was Mode Changing. Pokemon never did a true case of Dark variants, though, as the ones that existed were just basic recolors(though Digimon did that first of the two, that's a common rpg trope). Pokemon's "Dark" variants were just Rocket Pokemon and was referring to them being evil. I think the anime actually did make a few evil fake Pokemon, though. Whether or not Digimon made that idea first is harder to say. Pokemon The First Movie had a lot of clones, but I don't think Digimon influenced that idea at all. Same with the idea of Pokemon having experiments made(Porygon, Mewtwo, two of the major ones).

They both do share a similar idea of that some Monsters are realized through non-natural stuff like human waste resources(sludge, etc). And many ideas of how Pokemon and Digimon are created can be shared. Not the exact same concept, just the general core idea. But yeah, Digimon is way more known for variations of mode changes, etc. The only time Slide Evolution exists is in a Pokemon Manga with Eevee able to go into any of its previous forms. And that is clearly influenced by Digimon as well. It's otherwise not seen often among Monster games as is.
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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#57
Yuri Lowell. Vesperia is the best Tales game and the Defenitive Edition is coming out on the Switch.
Yuri is incredibly unlikely, I'd say. Symphonia is far more popular with the general gaming audience, sold far, far better than Vesperia, ToV:DE wasn't a factor when the roster was decided upon, Sakurai has openly stated as late as 2016 (a full year after the roster was likely picked) that Lloyd is without a question the definitive Tales representative, and the director of ToS and ToV said that he's pushing for Tales representation, but that the representative has to have had a major Nintendo console release. All of that, plus Lloyd is far more well known that Yuri due to both the massive sales difference and the time and environment in which their two games were released.

I don't know how Tales of influenced JRPG's as a whole, to be fair. I'm sure it did in some way. Digimon has influenced Pokemon a bit too via Mega Evolution, which is clearly an ideal concept that Digimon did first. Digimon wasn't even influenced by Pokemon. They both had the same influence, based upon popular monsters being raised, a huge concept(I believe both were after Persona, which did it first and popularized the idea). Did you know Breeding as a mechanic started with Dragon Warrior? That actually influenced other series to do so. This includes the idea of gaining new moves via breeding only. Another thing Digimon did first was Mode Changing. Pokemon never did a true case of Dark variants, though, as the ones that existed were just basic recolors(though Digimon did that first of the two, that's a common rpg trope). Pokemon's "Dark" variants were just Rocket Pokemon and was referring to them being evil. I think the anime actually did make a few evil fake Pokemon, though. Whether or not Digimon made that idea first is harder to say. Pokemon The First Movie had a lot of clones, but I don't think Digimon influenced that idea at all. Same with the idea of Pokemon having experiments made(Porygon, Mewtwo, two of the major ones).

They both do share a similar idea of that some Monsters are realized through non-natural stuff like human waste resources(sludge, etc). And many ideas of how Pokemon and Digimon are created can be shared. Not the exact same concept, just the general core idea. But yeah, Digimon is way more known for variations of mode changes, etc. The only time Slide Evolution exists is in a Pokemon Manga with Eevee able to go into any of its previous forms. And that is clearly influenced by Digimon as well. It's otherwise not seen often among Monster games as is.
Tales pioneered a lot of elements that have become staples of modern JRPGs, from the LMBS to genre blend and affinity mechanics. Tales also helped establish a lot of classic JRPG tropes, like consistent animal mascots andPhantasia-Symphonia/Zesty-Bersy style lore relation, and some of the biggest JRPGs out there were heavily inspired by Tales, such as Star Ocean (which flat-out references Tales at times) and Yakuza.
 
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Ahm Skittish!

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#58
Yuri is incredibly unlikely, I'd say. Symphonia is far more popular with the general gaming audience, sold far, far better than Vesperia, ToV:DE wasn't a factor when the roster was decided upon, Sakurai has openly stated as late as 2016 (a full year after the roster was likely picked) that Lloyd is without a question the definitive Tales representative, and the director of ToS and ToV said that he's pushing for Tales representation, but that the representative has to have had a major Nintendo console release. All of that, plus Lloyd is far more well known that Yuri due to both the massive sales difference and the time and environment in which their two games were released.
One thing to note about the Director of ToS and ToV as well; he actually is looking more at his own opinion of which Tales of character to add. It's clear a character's game does not need a major Nintendo release(hell, they don't need a Nintendo appearance either, though it helps), as proven by Cloud. In this case, it's clear he feels that it should be important, but Sakurai has already made it clear that isn't important to him.

Tales pioneered a lot of elements that have become staples of modern JRPGs, from the LMBS to genre blend and affinity mechanics. Tales also helped establish a lot of classic JRPG tropes, like consistent animal mascots and Phantasia-Symphonia/Zesty-Bersy style lore relation, and some of the biggest JRPGs out there were heavily inspired by Tales, such as Star Ocean (which flat-out references Tales at times) and Yakuza.
What's LMBS?? A lot of this stuff I'm not familiar with, but I kind of stopped playing a lot of JRPG's recently, so that's probably why. I couldn't play past FFIX, and only own X and X-2(not a fan of taking a traditional turn-based system that FF was known for and removing it altogether for a pure action rpg. I don't think it fits the series well and isn't a real evolution at all. It's a fine system, but only for multiplayer mainly. And ToS is a great game that I enjoyed, but it's a very different series from FF and I think they should stick to traditional turn-based in some way moving forward with FF and DQ as is. To note, FFVIIr removing the battle gauge system isn't even an evolution at that point, it's changing the core gameplay because SE thinks people hate turn-based, which isn't remotely true. Not everyone is interested in it, and that's fine. But it's still very popular. Otherwise why would D&D be one of the most popular tabletop games to this day?).
 

LaughingLefou

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#59
Yuri is incredibly unlikely, I'd say. Symphonia is far more popular with the general gaming audience, sold far, far better than Vesperia, ToV:DE wasn't a factor when the roster was decided upon, Sakurai has openly stated as late as 2016 (a full year after the roster was likely picked) that Lloyd is without a question the definitive Tales representative, and the director of ToS and ToV said that he's pushing for Tales representation, but that the representative has to have had a major Nintendo console release. All of that, plus Lloyd is far more well known that Yuri due to both the massive sales difference and the time and environment in - accidentally deleted
I didnt say he had a good chance; I just like him more than Lloyd.
 

blueneuronDOTnet

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#60
What's LMBS?? A lot of this stuff I'm not familiar with, but I kind of stopped playing a lot of JRPG's recently, so that's probably why. I couldn't play past FFIX, and only own X and X-2(not a fan of taking a traditional turn-based system that FF was known for and removing it altogether for a pure action rpg. I don't think it fits the series well and isn't a real evolution at all. It's a fine system, but only for multiplayer mainly. And ToS is a great game that I enjoyed, but it's a very different series from FF and I think they should stick to traditional turn-based in some way moving forward with FF and DQ as is. To note, FFVIIr removing the battle gauge system isn't even an evolution at that point, it's changing the core gameplay because SE thinks people hate turn-based, which isn't remotely true. Not everyone is interested in it, and that's fine. But it's still very popular. Otherwise why would D&D be one of the most popular tabletop games to this day?).
LMBS refers to the Linear Motion Battle System, the combat system that Tales titles utilize. Tales is a JRPG series with a dynamic action combat systems as opposed to the turn-based systems you mentioned, and Tales pioneered the implementation of that battle system, as well as the blending of action RPG mechanics and JRPG mechanic. You can read more about the specific elements, different variations, and some examples of series that have adopted the system at times here. The Aeslia wiki entry on it also goes into further detail on the specific implementation of the system in each mothership title.
 
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#61
I really want Klonoa... But I’m honestly afraid Namco is going to shove Tales down my throat just as they have been doing all these past few years.

Really going to make having no Pac-Man World material even more intolerable for me, Honestly.
 

Sabrewulf238

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#62
I voted for Llyod because he's the one I have the most connection with.

Though I guess I also have a connection with Digimon, it feels weird voting for Digimon since I've always heavily associated it with being an anime, even if the tamagotchi did come first....

So yeah I'm not really desperate for another Bandai Namco rep, but if we do get one I'd like to see either Lloyd or Agumon.
 

Arcadenik

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#64
More Namco characters would be nice. I believe the obvious top picks would be:
  • Heihachi Mishima
  • Lloyd Irving
  • Ms. Pac-Man (Echo)
 
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#68
These are all great picks tbh. Tales of Symphonia was one of those most have Gamecube games, Klonoa fits in really well with the crowd, Nightmare was another great Gamecube title and he'd be pretty cool to have in Smash after Link got to cross over so many years ago
I'd rather have Greymon over Agumon, but Digimon Vs Pokemon is the dream crossover, it'd be like having Sonic in Smash. The only thing I don't know about is if Digimon Qualifies, being that it originated as a V-pet... though that's about the same level as Mr. Game and Watch, huh?

I think I cast my vote to Klonoa though.
 

Megadoomer

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#69
I'd like to see Heihachi in Smash (from my limited experience in Tekken, my favourite character is him, with Kuma in second), since I feel like having a villain as a third party representative would be a nice change of pace, and I'd be interested to see the crazy juggling combos that he has.

I wouldn't say no to Agumon, though; Digimon was one of my favourite series growing up, and games like Digimon Rumble Arena 2 make it seem really clear how he would work in Smash.
 
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#72
I really want Klonoa... But I’m honestly afraid Namco is going to shove Tales down my throat just as they have been doing all these past few years.

Really going to make having no Pac-Man World material even more intolerable for me, Honestly.
I really wanted to say that "Klonoa" should be here in Ultimate.
 

DjinnandTonic

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#74
Voted Lloyd. Hoping for Yuri or Velvet. I just want a Tales character. Lloyd is the most iconic. Yuri is the most likeable (and his moveset could include his canine partner Repede to keep him from being "just another swordsman"). And Velvet is the most well-written character (and most recent), she could also count as a "villain" rep for this Heroes vs. Villains theme that Ultimate seems to be going for based on her status as an Anti-Hero, and has a unique non-sword-based moveset.

KOS-MOS or Heihachi are also cool. And a Digimon vs. Pokemon fight might be interesting. But mostly I just want Tales of Smash.
 

RetrogamerMax

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#76
Voted Lloyd. Hoping for Yuri or Velvet. I just want a Tales character. Lloyd is the most iconic. Yuri is the most likeable (and his moveset could include his canine partner Repede to keep him from being "just another swordsman"). And Velvet is the most well-written character (and most recent), she could also count as a "villain" rep for this Heroes vs. Villains theme that Ultimate seems to be going for based on her status as an Anti-Hero, and has a unique non-sword-based moveset.

KOS-MOS or Heihachi are also cool. And a Digimon vs. Pokemon fight might be interesting. But mostly I just want Tales of Smash.
Lloyd was a DLC Mii costume back in Smash 4 just like: :ultinkling:, :ultkrool:, :ultchrom:, and :ultisabelle:.

So Lloyd has a very high chance of getting in the roster along with Heihachi because of that and Namco Bandai working alongside with Nintendo to give us this dream game.
 
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Royaru

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#77
I'd love to see some rep from Digimon however I think Agumon would be pretty boring unless he can digievolve. But If Agumon digievolve and we can play as Greymon,Metalgreymon and Wargreymon... Dunno four characters in one for a third party that is not "important? I think Omegamon (he is also iconic) would be much better.
In the other hand, Lloyd Irving and KOS-MOS are more likely in my opinion
 

SmashBro99

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#79
Lloyd.

Symphonia is my favorite game, he's not my favorite character (Reeeegal) but I'd love my favorite rpg rep'd in smash!

And no, he wouldnt be another boring **** FE character haha. He'd be more like Meta Knight, bringing unique moves instead of "slash bigger slash thrust"
 

Flyboy

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#80
Selfishly, KOS-MOS. I have a friend who has had her as her number one most-wanted since high school and the joy on her face when she realizes who it is in the trailer will be enough to power several metropolitan areas. Also, I really liked the first Xenosaga as well and am looking forward to playing the others.

Realistically, Lloyd. Symphonia was huge for the Gamecube and Tales is a great series. I've only played Xillia 2 and some Berseria but loved them both so I would be very happy with Lloyd. Plus, my Xenosaga friend's wife loves Symphonia and Tales in general, so win-win I guess?

Either is great for me. I love Soulcalibur but I don't find a character from it to be that exciting apart from maybe seeing them mix it up with Link again and I was big into Digimon as a kid but Agumon in Smash just sort of baffles me as a concept. Dunno why. I also love Tekken but Heihachi isn't as iconic as someone like Ryu to me to warrant a spot. Even my Tekken main, Alisa, I'd balk at being added. Mii costumes for all these franchises would be awesome, though.
 
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