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What match ups do you avoid using Snake?

-Ran

Smash Master
Joined
Feb 16, 2008
Messages
3,198
Location
Baton Rouge
What's that? You're some conceited 'Snake Main' that doesn't change your character even when you're fighting a horrible match up? Oh, you actually aren't. You actually realize that there are other characters in the game, and have used them? =p

Seriously though, what characters do you use, and in what match ups, and why?

Falco
Answer: Marth.
With as campy as the metagame that has developed, the thought of accidentally losing a stock to an early grab to a spike if my SDI fails me just flat out annoys me. With Marth, I'm only losing a stock if I personally screwed up. I enjoy the ability to be the aggressor at early percents, and the raw combo-ability that Marth has against Falco. More so, since many Falcos rely on Jab to throw, I can break their chain with Up B. If I save this tactic for later in a stock, it's almost always a kill.

Toon Link
Answer: Marth.
Snake doesn't out camp Toon Link, and to be honest he's just too slow for me in this match up. If Toon Link is in camp mode, Snake can't catch him. Sure Snake is heavy as sin, but his options drop dramatically offensively against a character that spins 99% of the match in the air. With Marth, I can keep up with the speed of Toon Link, deal with his projectiles with a fair, and once again, remain an aggressor and threat at all times. At the moment, my major flaw is that I utilized Up B too much in this match up, which results in me taking needless damage. If I remove this problem, Hyro is going down. =P

Pikachu
Answer: Marth.
Pikachu can do some pretty nasty things to Snake, and though we can speak about how Snake is going to live forever, you cannot forget that Brawl has changed. This is a game about percents, and people are willing to run and camp as necessary to win. If Pikachu has a lead of 90%, they aren't going for the kill, they are just going to safely run away and knack on damage if they can. With Marth, it's a fair fight. No tricks, just spacing and power shielding. As with most match ups, I turn to Marth when I feel I need 'speed.' I tried the Pikachu match up one more time with Snake after an incredibly close match with my Marth against K Prime at Hobo, and I was destroyed. Never again. =v

King Dedede
Answer: Meta Knight
On Saturday, I lost to the last D3 I'll lose to with Snake. I hate the match up. It's a match up that I never wish to practice or do in friendlies because of how incredibly boring it is. Our entire ground game is destroyed by D3's ability to shield and grab. This match up becomes a total chore if the D3 has even the slightest of leads. I attempted this match with my Marth on Saturday once, and things were going well until I noticed that D3 lived until 180%, and had a bair that ate through my Fair. Needless to say, the answer is either to learn the Ice Climbers to do the easiest infinite in the game, or learn a character that will actually have utility in other matches. I anticipate to have my MK ready for the next tournament.

Wario
Answer: Marth
I remember a time when Wario's didn't SDI out my Nair all the time. Those were the days, a quick grab, and then I'd suddenly have 20-30% damage on them, and possibly a kill. Now I'm stuck dealing with a character that has the ability to punish most of my moves, but more discouraging run away once he has the lead. Wario is just too fast for my Snake, and so I resort to Marth [especially now that I've learned up the Release grab to F-Smash tipper.] Wario cannot effectively run from Marth for long, and Marth has aerial, and ground options that work extremely well against Wario.

Diddy Kong
Answer: Marth
Another case of Snake just being too slow. Diddy dominates the ground against Snake [as long as he has a banana in hand.] With Marth, I am able to safely get inside, deal damage, and then retreat as necessary. Bananas even provide me with a significant tool to deal with Diddy, and I find that Marth edge-guards Diddy exceptionally well.
 

Attila_

The artist formerly known as 'shmot'
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 22, 2008
Messages
6,025
Location
Melbourne, Australia
I picked up ice climbers as a second a while ago, because they beat pretty much everyone i would otherwise struggle with.

King Dedede
Answer: Ice Climbers

I really think this MU is stupid for snake (winterfest anyone?). one grab should result in so much pain with proper edgeguarding, or even worse, d3ciding. imo its about 65:35 (i know people disagree but whatever, at least japan agrees with me). so i get my ics to **** him. suddenly he's running from my grabs. the mu was originally thought to be 70:30 but recently people decided it wasnt that bad; its still hella hard for d3.

Olimar
Answer: Ice Climbers

Olimar outcamps snake, and pivot grab can answer any of your approaching options. and if youre playing on battlefield, he's gonna lol all over you. so once again, choose a character with a better grab game. pivot grabbing becomes dangerous for him, and grabbing him upon landing is generally pretty easy. apparently 60:40, which sounds about right to me.

Pikachu
Answer: Ice Climbers

Argh he's so annoying. camping him can be difficult if theres lots of platforms everywhere. and one grab under 70% should lead into bring you to 80% plus (whether it be from dthrow or fthrow). and thunder makes recovering difficult too. he lacks aerial range though, so just use ics and grab him 3 times and end the match already. save yourself the trouble; pikachu definately wins the mu.

They're pretty much the only ones who ill obligatorily switch characters for. that being said, certain stages make other character choices necessary...

Pit
Stage: Rainbow Cruise or Jungle Japes or similar
Answer: Lucas

Lucas? A low tier character? Only because of a few horrible matchups. Pit happens to be one that he doesnt play to badly on. and he completely shuts down any attempt at hard camping on stupid stages by characters with an absorbable projectile. not to mention pit wont be gimping him on these stages, which turns the mu back in his favour. much easier than trying to outcamp pit with snake...

Falco
Stage: FD
Answer: Ice Climbers

Yeah ics **** falco pretty hard. i dont consider it a particularly bad mu for snake, but on a stage like FD, things can become difficult. ics take all your worries away here; poor falco.

Falco
Stage: Jungle Japes or similar
Answer: Lucas

Similar reasoning to the Pit mu decision. Stops him for running away and camping. and lucas has no problems killing sideways either. and lucas loves aerial approaches also, so approaching a falco sitting on the side isnt of particular concern, either.

And i'll generally switch it up if im in a pinch and need to change the momentum. or if im taking the piss or just wanna get more tourney practice for my seconds. im sure there are other times, but they seem to escape me now.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
Meta Knight is always the solution :laugh:
whats funny is this is what I do.....lol. When will people realize snake isn't that good....xD

anyways, heres mine

pikachu
answer:luigi

I dont like being chaingrabbed and camped by a ******** rat who's impossible to hit <_< I find this easier with luigi and more fun as well. Its not like snake vs. pika is that bad of a mu I Guess, its just annoying

wario
answer:luigi

its not that this is even a bad matchup, but its alot of fun to do with luigi. I try to use luigi any chance I get. I might use mk if its on a dumb stage tho like RC.

idk theres more but I dont really switch my character enough to really be able to say I use someone else for them. If anything, gay stages are what I switch from snake because of.
 

professor mgw

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 31, 2008
Messages
2,573
Location
Bronx, NY
NNID
Prof3ssorMGW
Zero Suit Samus

Character to use: Olimar
Stage: Battlefield

Snake vs zero suit samus: my ratio 50:50 Even

Both characters have tools that can outweight the battle (I.e. Snakes nades & mortar/zeros stunner and juggling) but personally I hate this match-up b/c zero suit can juggle the heck out of snake.

I choose olimar mainly because he can out camp zero suit. He can bait and make her approach in no time, which is something zss shouldn't be doing. Battlefield is the stage I choose because its one of olimars best stages ever. He can utilize all most of his moves effectively here against most opponents.

Pit:

Character: Meta knight, marth

I really don't feel like explaining this paticular 1
 

Yumewomiteru

Smash Master
Joined
May 25, 2009
Messages
3,367
Location
Allston, MA
NNID
yumewomiteru
As you all know I dual main Snake and Falco so expect to see alot of Falco as answers.


Snake

Answer: Falco
I personally really like this matchup because of how devastating a grab is against Snake and how easy it is to juggle him. My favorite move by far in this matchup is D-throw, because of how bad Snake's options are from them that it quite easy to follow up. Also the chainspike is too sexy, especially if I can finish it off with a footstool off a C4 jump. Although Falco can sometimes have trouble killing Snake, he still have lots of good options, Fsmash works wonders on a landing Snake. As well as some early uair kills because of how high Falco can jump, he can easily intercept Snake off his cypher. And everyone loves dem lasers and dem dairs.

Olimar
Answer: Falco
I play this matchup pretty aggresively, and Falco just have better offensive options against Olimar than Snake does. Its good to actually hit pikmins off w/o getting punished.

King Dedede
Answer: Falco/MK
This matchup isn't actually that easy for me with Falco, but its not as bad as with Snake. Although I wont take massive damage from a chain grab, Id get killed around 100% and he can live consistently above 250%. Its not as easy as ppl say. I actually find the matchup easier with MK, Tornado to get the lead, and just camp and stall and force Dedede to approach. I actually find MK to have better escape options than Falco so I can camp Dedede better with MK than Falco. And early Shuttle Loop kills are sexy.

Diddy Kong
Answer: Falco
Because of his reflector I find that overall this matchup is easier with Falco. If I get my hands on a naner I can pull off some nice tricks esp. with the glide toss. And the chainspike can net me an early kill too if I can predict his recovery. Plus I don't get ***** offstage like Snake does.

Zero Suit Samus
Answer: Falco
Reflector makes the suit pieces less annoying. I wont get ***** by her aerials and up b while trying to recover. And I can camp her better with Falco.

Toon Link/Link

Answer: Falco
I can actually camp! =D
Falco just does better against them than Snake does because Falco can fight them in the air. And rthe eflector will generally force them to approach rather than projectile spam.


theres a few other chars I would consider like Marth and DK, but I don't have that much experience against them.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
3,695
Well, I just started playing Snake competitively, and intend to use him as a serious secondary in actual tournaments.

Falco:

Lazers, caming, and the DownThrow ChainGrab is really annoying to deal with. I'd most likely just go Yoshi.

Olimar:

Naturally is't 60:40 Olimar's favour, hard to approach, Snake gets shut down and needs to camp the entire match. I'd stick with Yoshi.

Meta Knight:

I'd probably just rage or play Meta Knight.
 

rPSIvysaur

[ɑɹsaɪ]
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
Messages
16,415
I picked up ice climbers as a second a while ago, because they beat pretty much everyone i would otherwise struggle with.

King Dedede
Answer: Ice Climbers

I really think this MU is stupid for snake (winterfest anyone?). one grab should result in so much pain with proper edgeguarding, or even worse, d3ciding. imo its about 65:35 (i know people disagree but whatever, at least japan agrees with me). so i get my ics to **** him. suddenly he's running from my grabs. the mu was originally thought to be 70:30 but recently people decided it wasnt that bad; its still hella hard for d3.

Olimar
Answer: Ice Climbers

Olimar outcamps snake, and pivot grab can answer any of your approaching options. and if youre playing on battlefield, he's gonna lol all over you. so once again, choose a character with a better grab game. pivot grabbing becomes dangerous for him, and grabbing him upon landing is generally pretty easy. apparently 60:40, which sounds about right to me.

Pikachu
Answer: Ice Climbers

Argh he's so annoying. camping him can be difficult if theres lots of platforms everywhere. and one grab under 70% should lead into bring you to 80% plus (whether it be from dthrow or fthrow). and thunder makes recovering difficult too. he lacks aerial range though, so just use ics and grab him 3 times and end the match already. save yourself the trouble; pikachu definately wins the mu.

They're pretty much the only ones who ill obligatorily switch characters for. that being said, certain stages make other character choices necessary...

Pit
Stage: Rainbow Cruise or Jungle Japes or similar
Answer: Lucas

Lucas? A low tier character? Only because of a few horrible matchups. Pit happens to be one that he doesnt play to badly on. and he completely shuts down any attempt at hard camping on stupid stages by characters with an absorbable projectile. not to mention pit wont be gimping him on these stages, which turns the mu back in his favour. much easier than trying to outcamp pit with snake...

Falco
Stage: FD
Answer: Ice Climbers

Yeah ics **** falco pretty hard. i dont consider it a particularly bad mu for snake, but on a stage like FD, things can become difficult. ics take all your worries away here; poor falco.

Falco
Stage: Jungle Japes or similar
Answer: Lucas

Similar reasoning to the Pit mu decision. Stops him for running away and camping. and lucas has no problems killing sideways either. and lucas loves aerial approaches also, so approaching a falco sitting on the side isnt of particular concern, either.

And i'll generally switch it up if im in a pinch and need to change the momentum. or if im taking the piss or just wanna get more tourney practice for my seconds. im sure there are other times, but they seem to escape me now.
You Use Lucas :D
Hurray! You're going on my friends list ;D
 

xLeafybug =D

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 22, 2009
Messages
3,385
Location
Brampton, ON, Canada
Hmm, Snakes all seem to avoid similar matchups.
anyhoo, for me.

Marth
Answer: Meta Knight
Ah, Marth. The bane of my existance. This for me would be the most dreaded match-up to play with Snake. Everything he does causes problems, and he juggles Snake into Oblivion. MK is an obvious answer to this.

Snake
Answer: Marth / ROB
The dreaded Snake ditto. There isn't a chance in hell that I'll ever play this match, as it's just too gay. I originally learned ROB just to deal with this match-up, but my Marth does the job pretty good as well.

King Dedede
Answer: Meta Knight / Ice Climbers / Marth
I hate this match-up more than any other, even the Snake ditto. D3 shuts Snake's ground game out so bad, that I have no choice but to use just about anybody but Snake.

Olimar
Answer: Marth / Meta Knight / Ice Climbers
Olimar is stupid. GAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY *** Olimar. Marth ***** him, so why not.

Falco
Answer: Marth
Falco's camping is pretty gay, Marth shuts him down.

Zero Suit Samus
Answer: Meta Knight / Marth / Falco / Ice Climbers
Like Marth, ZSS is pretty annoying to deal with. ZSS juggles Snake into oblivion just like Marth. Meta Knight deals with this matchup pretty well, but I use just about anybody for this one.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
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Messages
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Is Marth really that bad for Snake? I heard it's a slight 55:45 for Marth at the most. Not that bad.

It's still better than the 70:30 matchup ratio for Yoshi vs. Marth.
 

Darkshadow7827

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 21, 2007
Messages
1,532
Location
Lower reaches of Shelbrunkand
Hmmm... This is what I WANT to do, but I fear I'm trying to learn/get better with too many characters.

DDD:
Marth/Pit
His CG is just too **** on Snake. I don't know what to say, CG is annoying, bair is annoying, grab range is annoying. Also, Snake isn't exactly safe when DDD shields an attack so.

Falco:
Marth/Pit
Marth can be aggressive and is fast enough to cut down on the SHDL lasers > side b camping. I have an easier time edge guarding as marth too. Pit might not have to worry about lasers as much, but I don't play pit competitively, so I'll shut it.

Olimar/Marth/MK/Pika
No clue: haven't really played any competitively yet.

I think Marth and Pit are okay. I don't really wanna change my controller scheme for Pit though. From the looks of it, he seems to be a toned down marth with projectiles. Not saying he's bad, just different. I'm trying to use Samus seriously, but that helps with no matchups - only in low tier tourneys. She can plank though :)
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
Joined
Sep 2, 2008
Messages
3,695
Yes, I know Yoshi sucks. Especially against Marth.

And Iliad is really good and Marth is really gay and a raging flamboyant queer, so it's only natural that the matchup is hard.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
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Messages
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Iliad = scrub
If I had used Meta, he would have gotten rayped. :D
Iliad isn't a scrub, he just plays bad because he loses focus and gets irritated.

Plus, Meta Knight goes 70:30 against Marth or something, and GtaN is literally swarming with good Meta Knight players.

Although our scene is pretty diverse.
 

.Marik

is a social misfit
Joined
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Messages
3,695
:p

My bad, then. :yoshi:

I didn't think you were being serious, guess I just felt like it stating it regardless.
 

napZzz

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 4, 2008
Messages
5,294
Location
cg, MN
Kosk's Ganon
your avatar is amazing

<3 one piece and everything from enies lobby

and trying to stay on topic, I'm trying to avoid the olimar matchup by using luigi, but haven't really tried it yet. : |
 

xMPDx

Smash Cadet
Joined
Jan 21, 2009
Messages
27
Location
Carolina, PR
The only match up im afraid of with snake is against Olimar. For that character i go R.O.B.

Snake Dittos... hell no.. lol Its either king DDD or Shiek.

Vs DD kong i dont find it hard against snake, i think its just pretty even.

still here are some videos of my snake vs a DD kong

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=30OXOmFoAGE
on this first video he manages to win, i still love how i played. talk about i new way to camp DD kong :p at least on that stage.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhtqYY2wNRY&feature=channel

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QdJhVbaS1-Q&feature=channel
 
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