What Make Someone a "Video Game Character"

[JonSmash]

We all know there are some people who want non video game characters in smash 4th party i think people call it ? & say sakurai said only video game characters should be in smash meaning the must originally appear in a video game 1st BUT

Sakurai already broke that "rule" by adding Lucario to supper smash bros brawl. As Lucario 1st appeared in
Pokémon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew in japan on July 16, 2005 & the video game Lucario appeared in came out in September 28, 2006

so witch is he ? a video game character ? or a movie character ? his 1st appearance WAS a movie not a video game.

Example:

to contrast Ralph from the movie Wreck it Ralph was released october 29 2012 BUT his video game Fix it Felix jr. was Released BE FOR his move around July 2012 ! & a actual working arcade machine was made & playable to the public be for that ! so by 1st appearance Ralph IS A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER 1ST & FORMOST

SO what makes a character a video game character ??? dose being in a video game 1st not make you a video game character ? can you be in a movie/tv/manga 1st & still be considered a video game character ? I see people argue a lot about "them" (who ever is being discussed) not being a video game character B/C they need to 1st appear in a game.

I'd like to see your opinons ? PS: this is my 1st post HI ! & why is my type font changed ???

 

[Union of Darkness]

Look I know this is inevitably going to be about Goku. So let me cut to the chase and just say he shouldn't be in regardless of what he is.

 

[ArkhaosZero]

The intentions are the defining elements. Lucario appeared first in a movie, sure, but he was designed primarily for a video game. In fact, the movie served to promote the games. Since Pokemon is a video game franchise first and foremost, anything directed at the core is naturally centered around the games. If he was designed in the movie, and was later added then it'd be more debatable, but even still, Pokemon's identity as a whole is centered around the games.

Goku (and other anime characters) are conversely designed as anime/movie/whatever characters. It's their home medium. I'm sure there's some oddball case out there where a movie tie-in game, or maybe even a toy, was released before the movie itself was, but similarly because this character is intended and designed for another medium, that's where their identity lies.

The reason Goku is so contentious, is because he's seen as entirely unfitting for Nintendo (even if Lucario was a movie only thing, he still ties directly back to Nintendo), and opens the flood gates for other even-less-fitting inclusions. Smash is about Nintendo's history, and so far all characters have some relevancy to Nintendo.

 

[JonSmash]

No its not about goku its about the idea of what is a video game character ( goku is not a video game character ) & Lucario is a weird exeption so far the same could be said for ROB.

Iteresting Take ArkhaosZero but you mostley talked about goku what about Ralph ? he was a video game character 1st but it was to promote a movie, a movie about video game characters like bowser sonic & so on so if Intent of a character matters would he be a video game character ? his intent for the movie was to be a video game character & apeared in a game 1st His situation & perseption to me is very interesting

 

[ArkhaosZero]

No its not about goku its about the idea of what is a video game character ( goku is not a video game character ) & Lucario is a weird exeption so far the same could be said for ROB.

Iteresting Take ArkhaosZero but you mostley talked about goku what about Ralph ? he was a video game character 1st but it was to promote a movie, a movie about video game characters like bowser sonic & so on so if Intent of a character matters would he be a video game character ? his intent for the movie was to be a video game character & apeared in a game 1st His situation & perseption to me is very interesting

Yeah, Ralph is definitely an extra layer of complexity to the problem, no doubt. However, I'd still say that his intended purpose was as a movie character. It was a movie ABOUT video games, but that's the artistic premise.

To use another example, Woody from Toy Story. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but for the sake of argument let's just say that he technically first appeared as a toy a month before the movie release. Well, naturally, Woody is still a movie character. He was designed by movie makers, for a movie, and the toy served directly to promote the movie. Toy Story is featured in games, shows and what not, but its' identity is centered around movies. Same case with Ralph, I'd say.

 

[Oddball]

Personally, I'd say Wreck-it Ralph falls into the category of characters like Captain N, Segata Sanshiro, and even ROB. They are a "videogame character" (with quotation marks) or an Honorary Videogame character. The might not be from the same place as videogame characters, but they know the same people and get invited to the same parties so to speak.

Now to add another layer to this.
What about an original character that was created for a videogame BASED on a licensed product? Here's an example, maybe you don't know them, but Tora and Shogun were two character created for TMNT2: the Arcade game. They hadn't appeared in anything else before that. They were created FOR a videogame. Do they count as Videogame characters? Personally, I'm going to say "no". Likewise any original character that appears in a Batman, DBZ, Terminator, or whatever game. They default to being a (insert original medium of the licease here) character.

 

[EpicElliot]

I say ralph could pass for a "Video Game character" like say if sakurai wanted to add sora (is he a video game character ? as if TMNT2 characters don't count then sora wouldn't count since he is just there in a Disney game based on movie characters then ?) & Disney said they would only give sora if they also add ralph to promote his movie / games, I feel sakurai would consider him based on his video game based theme & a few smash characters where in his movie & he did start out as a game so I'd say ralph is just a potential "special case"

as for Lucario I'd say the movie was more of a promotion of the game & TV show since all pokemon media is based on the video games like the show following the games structure like gyms & so on. BUT on that's note is ash greninja a TV character ? he is only in 4 pokemon games & if he can't be transferred over to gen 8 then was him appearing in the games just to promote the show, & the show is just to promote the games so Hmmm & then there is ash hat Pikachu Hmmmm ???? lol even so I'd say if they are a pokemon then they are most likely a video game character......but what about white snorelax he was movie short only ???? my head hurts ??? lol

very interesting topic that isn't just "goku in smash"

 

[Fane]

To me, a Video Game Character is something or someone that originates from games or gaming consoles themselves.

So this DOES include R.O.B., as he is a gaming peripheral. He directly relates to gaming first and foremost.

Characters like Goku or Wreck-It Ralph aren't video game characters. Their origin is of a different media. Hell, even if a Dragonball Character made their debut in a video game, I'd still say they aren't. Their origin is still directly from Dragonball, which did not start out as a video game.

That's just me though. Every character in Smash thus far has originated from gaming.

 

[Sephazon]

We all know there are some people who want non video game characters in smash 4th party i think people call it ? & say sakurai said only video game characters should be in smash meaning the must originally appear in a video game 1st BUT

Sakurai already broke that "rule" by adding Lucario to supper smash bros brawl. As Lucario 1st appeared in
Pokémon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew in japan on July 16, 2005 & the video game Lucario appeared in came out in September 28, 2006

so witch is he ? a video game character ? or a movie character ? his 1st appearance WAS a movie not a video game.

The purpose of Lucario's inclusion in the movie is to promote the video game series. The anime can be seen as a marketing tool for the video games, and this purpose can be seen as far back as the very first episode in which Ho-Oh appears to promote the then-in-development Pokémon 2 game, which would eventually become Pokémon Gold and Silver.

to contrast Ralph from the movie Wreck it Ralph was released october 29 2012 BUT his video game Fix it Felix jr. was Released BE FOR his move around July 2012 ! & a actual working arcade machine was made & playable to the public be for that ! so by 1st appearance Ralph IS A VIDEO GAME CHARACTER 1ST & FORMOST

SO what makes a character a video game character ??? dose being in a video game 1st not make you a video game character ? can you be in a movie/tv/manga 1st & still be considered a video game character ? I see people argue a lot about "them" (who ever is being discussed) not being a video game character B/C they need to 1st appear in a game.

In the reverse, although the arcade cabinet was available for the public to briefly play prior to the movie's release, it was still developed solely as a promotional item for the movie. I would argue that Wreck It Ralph is entirely a movie character whose conception is drawn from video games. To continue, as far as I know, there is nowhere you can currently play this arcade game in the world. In my opinion, he is not a video game character.

 

[JonSmash]

"To me, a Video Game Character is something or someone that originates from games or gaming consoles themselves."-Fane

BUT by that logic Ralph is a video game character as he originates from fix it felix jr. witch is a video game B4 the movie & in the movie it revolves around him not wanting to be a bad guy in the fix it felix jr video game so by that logic Ralph would BE a video game character as games is his orrigen & intent

EpicElliot your thought on lucario make a lot more sence

Sephazon not just his arcade game but fix it felix jr. was also released to the public in web & moble form as well (B4 the movie came out ) as in the wii & 3DS Wreck it Ralph video game as an unlockable game & the arcade machine is playable to the public at Disney Land. Ralph was by design to be a video game character

 

[Fane]

JonSmash I also said their debut has to revolve around an actual video game or console itself.

Wreck-It Ralph's core origin is from the movie, not a game. The little mini-game was made because of the movie to promote it.

Otherwise Lucario would be an anime character.

 

[Sephazon]

not just his arcade game but fix it felix jr. was also released to the public in web & moble form as well (B4 the movie came out ) as in the wii & 3DS Wreck it Ralph video game as an unlockable game & the arcade machine is playable to the public at Disney Land. Ralph was by design to be a video game character

That's a bit of reverse reasoning. For example, the Pokémon Lucario was designed for the video game prior to being in the movie — i.e. despite being appearing in the movie, Lucario was first and foremost created for the core Pokémon video game franchise. Lucario would have existed had the movie been created or not. The Fix-It Felix game was created solely for the purpose of promoting a movie, and would not exist had that movie not been created.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

It depends. Although Lucario did debut in a movie, pokemon debuted as a video game. Yes this thread will eventually debate Goku, so i'm going to say that Dragonball was first a cartoon. But pokemon is seen as a video game, not just a cartoon.

 

[Sephazon]

Easy question to ask yourself if a character is a video game character or not:

Would the character exist independently in a real video game if other media forms did not exist? e.g. would Lucario exist if that particular Pokémon movie did not exist? Yes. Would Fix-It Felix exist if Wreck It Ralph was not a movie? No. Would Goku exist if Dragon Ball was not created as a manga?

Here's where it becomes a gray area. Would Sora exist without Disney animation? I'd argue that Kingdom Hearts in its current form couldn't exist without Disney animation. That said, Sora could exist in a video game not featuring Disney IPs and was also created independently of other media (Kingdom Hearts wasn't created to promote Sora in other media such as comics or movies). Therefore, based on the question presented, Sora is a video game character.

 

[Mogisthelioma]

Sora is probably never going to happen anyway. Another area to discuss is how are they seen. Goku is an anime character. Shrek is a movie character. Steve from Minecraft is a placeholder name (Oh God please don't let Steve in)

 

[Dee Dude]

...Being a video game character by originating in a video game?

The and arguments don’t work because despite not technically debuting in game, they are still Nintendo characters regardless and are designed as game characters.

 

[MrRoidley]

I think if say, a series is created since the beginning as a multimedia series and one of its original media is games, than a character from it counts as a videogame

Which is the case of , and I see Jibanyan thrown around and gets flack because the anime debuted first or whatever, but ever since the franchise's conception, Yokai Watch was supposed to have games as its core. It's basically the Lucario situation, I believe
Conversely, say, Wreck-it-Ralph is first and foremost a movie. The game is basically a promotional tie-in I guess? Just like the immense majority of Disney movie-related games
And let's go to the main point: Goku. Dragonball was first and foremost a manga. Then it was adapted to anime because of the manga success. AND THEN it spawned games because of the whole series's success. So, he's not a game character
And the argument: R.O.B. is basically the original amiibo. Something outside the games that works with them. He's made for said games. This argument really doesn't count

 

[Fane]

I don't understand why people bring up Lucario calling him an Anime character bc his initial appearance to the public was through a movie.

He was already created for a video game initially, and Pokemon itself debuted as a video game initially.

As long as a character's debut at it's core(as in their initial appearance/conception) is related to video games, they're a video game character.

This renders Goku, Wreck-It Ralph, and others as non-video game characters.

R.O.B. still ties in as a video game character with this 'rule' as his initial appearance was directly related to video games and activated and worked with video games. He didn't start out as a children's toy and then later modified into a video game character. He was a peripheral for a gaming console, he never had anything else to do with other media.

 

[DarthEnderX]

Any character from an IP that started out as a video game.

Sakurai already broke that "rule" by adding Lucario to supper smash bros brawl.

The IP is still Pokemon though, which started out as a video game.

 

[BonafideFella]

ROB and Lucario's descent are intertwined with video games. Without video games, the characters wouldn't exist.
There's only so many times this thread will cycle along the exact same beats.
"Without video games, this character wouldn't exist."
"But Wreck-it Ralph is inspired by video games so in theory, he wouldn't exist without video games and also this and that,"

 

[dav3yb]

Sakurai already broke that "rule" by adding Lucario to supper smash bros brawl. As Lucario 1st appeared in
Pokémon: Lucario and the Mystery of Mew in japan on July 16, 2005 & the video game Lucario appeared in came out in September 28, 2006

so witch is he ? a video game character ? or a movie character ? his 1st appearance WAS a movie not a video game.

I feel like for this argument to work at all you have to show that Nintendo (or Ken Sugimori) conceptualized and designed Lucario specifically for the movie first, before designing him a Pokémon for any of the games.

 

[Opossum]

Lucario first appeared in what basically amounts to an hour-and-a-half long video game commercial. He's a video game character. R.O.B. is a video game product, and as such, a video game character.

 

[JonSmash]

So the consensus on what makes a video game character is INTENT to be a video game character or being attached to a known video game franchise with characters like ralph & sora being in a debatable gray zone very interesting thanks for the discussion guys

 

[Opossum]

So the consensus on what makes a video game character is INTENT to be a video game character or being attached to a known video game franchise with characters like ralph & sora being in a debatable gray zone very interesting thanks for the discussion guys

Personally I don't think there's any doubt with Sora. He's 100% a video game character.

 

[Mgl]

Lucario is from an anime based on a video game so I think it checks out

 

[ErenJager]

Lucario was likely designed for his role in the movie and for merchandise as opposed to primarily for the video game. As the same went for Lugia, who was the only Pokémon to not appear in beta versions of his games.

But idk Franchise still debuted as a video game and he appeared in the video games.

But if you think about it from a movie story board and toy marketing perspective they would need to conceptualize for the movie first. Lucario couldnt fulfill a lugia type role and Lugia wpuldnt be able to be like a side by side partner/ companion in the same capacity like Lucario could be.

He was designed to be a cool edgey-ish character that wpuld sell movie tickets and toys.

 

[Sean Wheeler]

Well, I was wondering the same question. And personally, I would think that anyone who appeared in at least one game could be considered a "video game character." But the consensus at SmashBoards looks like both the character's franchise would have to start at video games, which is why Lucario is a video game character despite appearing in a movie two years before we played through Sinnoh. Sora's a weird case because of his strong ties to Disney. Most people here consider him a video game character but I see him as a similar case to Galen Marek. Kingdom Hearts is a Disney game where you travel between worlds that are based on Disney movies, and Disney characters such as Donald Duck, Goofy, Maleficent, Mickey and Pete have major roles in the series, and Sora has Mickey's trademarked logo on his default weapon. There are Final Fantasy characters in the series and World Ends With You characters in Dream Drop Distance, but that's mainly because the Kingdom Hearts creator Tetsuya Nomura was involved in those series. The Disney characters far outnumber the Square Enix characters. There are tons of worlds adapting Disney movies, but no worlds that are based on Square games. Also, Sora's original outfit from Kingdom Hearts I was based on Mickey Mouse. So to me, Sora is more of a Disney character than a video game character. Would he exist without Disney? No he wouldn't. He has too many ties to Disney. Kingdom Hearts is a Disney game. To deny Kingdom Hearts ties to the Disney brand would be like denying Dragon Ball Xenoverse's ties to the Dragon Ball brand.

 

[Venus of the Desert Bloom]

Lucario is a video-game character that comes from a predominately video game series. Regardless if he can eout first in a movie, he is more attributed to video games. I don’t think that’s exactly an issue and is pretty cut and dry. In regards to ROB, he was a NES accessory that transitioned into video games such as Mario Kart, F-Zero, and kinda Star Fox.

Wreck It Ralpha is based off video games but, other than that, has very little connection to gaming in general.

So....a video game character is a character who originated or had a strong association with the gaming media upon being created from a company who largely apart of the video gaming community. Mickey Mouse, Ralph, and Goku are not video game characters. RoB and Lucario are video game characters.

I think a better question to ask is where does the character Jibanyan Fromm Yokai Watch fit as he first appeared in gaming with several successful games followed by anime/movie appearances which were equally successful.

 

[Amazing Ampharos]

It's not really about the order of events but their significance. Just think of it this way. For any given character, you can say they belong to one medium and then must immediately say they are NOT members of every other form of media. So if you want to say Goku is a video game character, you're saying he's not an anime character. That would be obviously absurd; Dragonball Z itself is way, way more important than whatever games. Likewise, while Lucario has appeared in a movie, a TV show, and a card game, if you assign him to those things, you're saying he's not a video game character which is kinda silly since Pokemon as a video game series is just so much more important than all of that stuff to the overall brand and the definition of what is within. I think you'll quickly find that, if you don't try to be difficult and just look at every character in a straightforward way as though they can only possibly belong to one form of media and must instantly reject all others, that every character who is remotely plausible is very easily classified.

And yes, Sora is a video game character. Kingdom Hearts, a video game, is the most important defining thing for who Sora is. Mickey Mouse appears in Kingdom Hearts but is not a video game character. His appearances in a huge array of western style cartoons over the past 80ish years are the main thing that define him; Mickey Mouse as a character is barely impacted at all by his role in Kingdom Hearts. Sora is "eligible" to appear in Smash, not that he necessarily or even likely will, and Mickey Mouse will never be a Smash character. See, it's easy.

 

[Crainy]

Sora is more of a final fantasy character than a Disney character though. He is a mix, he wouldnt exist if it werent for Disney, but he also wouldnt exist if it werent for Square Enix and Final Fantasy. He was designed as an original character, for an original game, that has some elements from Disney. He isnt tied at his core to a different medium, like someone like Goku is.

If anything, he is the representation of Disney, not Disney movies, in the video game world, which makes him a notable video game character.

 

[link2702]

The difference with lucario is while he appears first in an animation, he was created to be part of something that started as a game series.

The original Pokémon anime was more or less used to promote the games. The video games have always been the series focus, had the anime not taken off as well as it did, chances are we’d only be seeing Pokemon games. Lucario the game character and lucario the cartoon character were likely created in conjunction, and again, the Pokemon franchise is still primarily about the games.

Also the series is more or less owned by Nintendo, and the rules really don’t quite apply for their own properties. Same reason rob got in.

Now, let’s look at the character who this topic was more or less created because, Goku.

He did not originate as a game character, nor was he created to promote/in conjunction with a video game. He was made to be a manga character first and foremost, his popularity, mostly during his teen and adult year, are what pushed him into video games, long after his first manga released.

 

[Quillion]

Let's make this difficult: how would we classify Geralt of Rivia?

 

[praline]

Let's make this difficult: how would we classify Geralt of Rivia?

He’s from a book first so he wouldn’t be in Smash.

 

[FirestormNeos]

Lucario & The Mystery of Mew is an "Anime movie that exists to promote a VIDEO GAME series."
Star Wars: The Force Unleashed is a "Video game that exists to promote a MOVIE series."
Wreck-It Ralph is a "(disney) MOVIE about video games."
Kingdom Hearts is a "VIDEO GAME about (disney) movies."

Bonus Round:
Shrek is a "MOVIE about fairy tales"
Dragon Ball Z is an "ANIME about fight scenes"

Let's make this difficult: how would we classify Geralt of Rivia?

The Witcher games have developed a cultural identity that has evolved beyond the book it was based off of, just like how many films develop a cultural identity beyond their source material, for better (Ready Player One, the second Hunger Games book & film) or worse (2001: A Space Odyssey, the first Hunger Games book & film), making him a video game character.

Unlike the Force Unleashed, which despite whatever good qualities it may have, is ultimately a niche game that didn't really "evolve" past its origin franchise in the cultural psyche like The Witcher games did, ultimately making Starkiller a "movie character that has never been in a movie."

 

[Fell God]

I really liked Lucario and the Mystery of Mew as a kid. Er, wait, we're supposed to contribute something? I don't think I'd add much that hasn't already been said.

 

[pupNapoleon]

you mostley talked about goku what about Ralph ? he was a video game character 1st but it was to promote a movie, a movie about video game characters like bowser sonic & so on so if Intent of a character matters would he be a video game character ? his intent for the movie was to be a video game character & apeared in a game 1st His situation & perseption to me is very interesting

I'd like some sources for this. Disney doesn't even have an active Video Game division. It is the most baffling area of entertainment neglect (that I am expecting to be targeted by 2022). I have never read anything to indicate Ralph was not first and foremost a movie, one of Disney's primary terrain's.

 

[JonSmash]

Disney did have an active video game division thats why we had to wait so long for kingdom hearts 3 as the head of the division at the time didn't want to other companys using there IP but when there toy to life game faild they closed down. & a sourse for what exactly ???

 

[**Gilgamesh**]

Sora is basically a Disney character. Kingdom Hearts for all intents and purposes is a Disney game. You never travel to any FF world. You even have Disney characters in your party. If your okay with Sora in Smash; then You're okay with Disney inevitably pushing their IPs into Smash in some fashion onto Nintendo with Sora.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Disney did have an active video game division thats why we had to wait so long for kingdom hearts 3 as the head of the division at the time didn't want to other companys using there IP but when there toy to life game faild they closed down. & a sourse for what exactly ???

Disney's two biggest video game landmarks have been Disney Infinity, created by Avalanche Gaming, and Kingdom Hearts, developed by Square and Disney Interactive Studios.

Disney Interactive Studios was around for under 30 years (1988-2016), and was indeed their de facto "video game division," although they for decades stuck mostly to tie-ins, and had more responsibilities than just catering to gaming.

That does not change that Disney does not have an active video game division, and that it was on the decline for a long time (defunct just after Wreck-it-Ralph came out).

All that said, I'd like to see sources stating your claim, which was "his intent for the movie was to be a video game character & appeared in a game 1st His situation & perseption to me is very interesting." If you merely meant that he is a video game in his character, that does not make him a video game character in our world. Just like Jasmine and Cinderella are not "Real Princesses" in our world.

 

[JonSmash]

oh ok I'd have to find the interview then I'll post the link when i find it