What do you think was Super Smash Bros. Melee's biggest fault?

[Dylan_Tnga]

To all the people complaining about L-canceling and wavedashing:
Please stop talking like you know something about the tournament scene.

Why L-canceling should require timing: If it didn't require timing it would make the game a little bit easier to play, but at the same time it would take a little bit of skill out of the game. The more we take out of that magic pot of skill the less deep the game becomes. Everyone misses l-cancels, but the better you are at it, the less prevalent they become. I love abusing other peoples mistakes, and that is a HUGE part of this game. Taking that away from smash would only dull it.

Besides, when it comes to balance, EVERY character benefitted from l-canceling equally. It sped everyone up. If they had huge lag before l-canceling, they still had more lag than everyone else on it after l-canceling. It only served to speed up the game.

Why wavedashing is good: It is a great option for maneuverability. It didn't really detract from balance because a lot of the lower tiers actually have pretty darn good wavedashes. Hell, Fox and Falco's wavedashes aren't that great in comparison, it's their shine that made it so good, which would still be abused without wavedashing (to a lesser extent). I for one think there should be as many options to maneuver your character as possible. Yes, wavedashing has a somewhat steep learning curve, but it isn't so hard that it requires months of practice or anything.

To sum it all up, don't whine about something that is hard when it adds so much to the game. Just learn it and stop complaining, and for god sakes, don't spread bull**** like "these things made the game unbalanced" when you are pulling it out of your ***. Next you'll be telling me that the death penalty deters crime.


You made a mistake, YOU messed it up, not the game engine. How do I know this??? Because there are PLENTY of skilled people who don't mess it up :-P.

I agree with you in -every- way, shape, and form, on multiple planes of existence.

 

[eep the defiler]

The way they put Wolf in the beginning video thing but he wasn't actually in the game

such a disapointment

 

[errtu]

online play
clones
u couldn't save your settings for the matches, so i had to change time for stock every time i played, pretty annoying man

 

[MzNetta]

clones.

ten characters

 

[Xanderous]

Link is a sword-fighter with a few projectiles.

Young Link is a projectile fighter with a sword.


Trust me, there's QUITE a difference.

Character-wise, I mean.

 

[tingo249er]

Melee's fatal mistake...clones. Clones have to be the worst idea ever!! Why waste time designing clones when you could be doing something useful like making a different unique character? Just doesn't make sense to me...

 

[_Phloat_]

online play
clones
u couldn't save your settings for the matches, so i had to change time for stock every time i played, pretty annoying man

They did that because there were so many settings that it would just be a hassle if someone came over and did their custom matches.. It would be a hassle to just change it back, instead you simply know what to change every time you play, and you do it

Only the things that took time like random stage select and the item switch were preserved, and for a good reason, setting those every time would suck..

 

[KernelColonel]

What the hell is with people *****ing about the balance of a game??

The only thing that is unbalanced is the skill of the person holding the controller. If you are whining about the cheapness of a character, then you are making excuses. EXCUSES. It stands a huge chance that you made no effort to improve yourself against the same tactics that ***** your face off, and instead, you decided to call the characters unbalanced. YES, some are (substantially) faster than others, but they require tons of combos and small attacks to rack up damage. The slower ones (Ganondorf, Peach) are still competetive. It just depends on the player.

I'm thinking that everyone who complains about balance doesn't know how to WD well.

Of course, some characters are just really bad and hard to win with (Pichu comes to mind). But if you're playing with them, you're a bad smasher and should switch your mains.

 

[bluebomber22]

-no character intros
-change in physics from ssb64
-the crowd chanting/reaction
-scale of characters (look how big the characters are on the Corneria level, that is supposed to be big enough to house the entire starfox team and 4 arwings. There is no way fox could even fit in the cockpit without lying down. lol)
-overall glitches and the games feel of being rushed and incomplete
I give ssb64 a 10/10 and melee 8.5/10
I hope Brawl will be much better.

 

[LaniusShrike]

I agree that the VS. settings should have been saved. Saying that it'd take too much time to change things back after someone else plays them is silly- it takes tons of time to change all the settings from the default, regardless of how often you do it. Saving the settings would overall waste a lot less time, and I really can't see any logical argument against it.

The characters really are unbalanced. If we are assuming that the creators balanced the characters without wavedashing in mind, then it is pretty clear that bowser and mewtwo are fairly pathetic compared to many of the other characters.

Also- I always did find it funny that momentum was simply drawn from the most recent attack, so a tap could stop someone who was about to blast off the stage.

Kill stealing via weak projectiles seems a little silly. If an attack doesn't contribute to an opponent's death, it shouldn't be counted. Of course, Sakurai has directly said that Fox's blaster will still KS... eh.

Edit: And I think it would've been cool if you could alter more things with VS. matches, such as gravity and certain players starting with certain conditions etc...
basically, the ability to make multiplayer event matches.

 

[_Phloat_]

I agree that the VS. settings should have been saved. Saying that it'd take too much time to change things back after someone else plays them is silly- it takes tons of time to change all the settings from the default, regardless of how often you do it. Saving the settings would overall waste a lot less time, and I really can't see any logical argument against it.

The characters really are unbalanced. If we are assuming that the creators balanced the characters without wavedashing in mind, then it is pretty clear that bowser and mewtwo are fairly pathetic compared to many of the other characters.

Also- I always did find it funny that momentum was simply drawn from the most recent attack, so a tap could stop someone who was about to blast off the stage.

Kill stealing via weak projectiles seems a little silly. If an attack doesn't contribute to an opponent's death, it shouldn't be counted. Of course, Sakurai has directly said that Fox's blaster will still KS... eh.

Edit: And I think it would've been cool if you could alter more things with VS. matches, such as gravity and certain players starting with certain conditions etc...
basically, the ability to make multiplayer event matches.

Yeah, more custimization is always good, I would love a meta knight almost 0 gravity battle !

Or a .001 gravity falco battle, I would call it "Dont jump without shorthop or you die"

Not to catchy, but nothing but the troof..

 

[Wyvern]

Number one for me is (suprise suprise!) character balance. The game has 26 characters, but you barely see a quarter of those playing in tournaments with any regularity. How many Links, Bowsers, Pichus, Roys, Game & Watches, Zeldas, and Mewtwos combined do you see in a serious tournament for every one Sheik? Highly disappointing...especially if the fast, light characters just aren't your style. I know the balance will never be perfect, but I want to see some variety in tournaments!

I guess once that's worked out, the next big thing should be beefing up the game modes. A more robust 1-player game would be nice, as many have said already. And why can't I play slow-mo single-button three-stock 100-health Stamina Mode if I feel like it? A lot of the special melees were disappointing because of the lack of customization (especially Stamina Mode!).

I can't really complain that much about clones, seeing as how very fun it is to play as Ganondorf. I'm actually really sad that he's going to lose his moveset in Brawl...I hope they find some way to let him keep his basic kill-or-be-killed strategy, at least.

 

[HideousBeing]

The removal of unique character entrances. 'Nuff said.

T.T I wanted to see Bowser come in on his Koopa Clown Car.

 

[Walgreens Pharmacist]

Too many pointless moves. Ganon's utilt/neutral b, Peach's side B, Ness's Dsmash...

peaches smash b was a recovery move, and gannon's neutral b can be used as an edge guard....

 

[A-Laon]

5 playable stages.

(I refuse to consider Fountain worthy of being a neutral stage)

 

[Endless Nightmares]

I can't find anything wrong with Fountain...o_O

My roommate hates Fountain because he says there's too much going on in the background and he can't see on that board.

Johnz

 

[HideousBeing]

5 playable stages.

(I refuse to consider Fountain worthy of being a neutral stage)

No stage is really neutral, even without hazards. Even a stage like FD favors some characters more than others. Links love FD. Bowsers hate it. Both for reasons that it aids or hinders their character in general. There is no such thing as a neutral stage. When I first was introduced to competitive play, I was surprised that they allowed stages that I considered un-neutral. FoD has moving platforms. YS has the cloud and shyguys that can hinder or aid certain moves. DK 64 has moving platforms and the barrel cannon. PS undergoes weird changes that sometimes have moving environment and the very transformation itself is stage alteration. I thought the only neutral stages were FD, BF, and Hyrule Temple. Of course, camping was never an issue for me back then...

 

[OnyxVulpine]

I am not an experienced player, nor do I know anything about tournament play.
-Clones. They may have changed them up a bit but just a little more unique moves would be nice.... Which makes me think, would you notice a clone if they were exactly the same except for moves?
-Some stages.. I don't know the names but some irritated me beyond belief like that air balloon one.
-Online, I'll let it slide.
-Balance. This is probably the one they are mostly working on since the new characters and maybe new moves. With every solved problem creates a few new problems. Don't expect to see a godly balanced game. But could it be that most people just like fast play and use the fast characters? Every character can be godly with a great player behind it. Take um.. Halo for example, some noob with a sniper rifle can be taken down with a skilled Magnum user (Seen it happen... Very embarrassing..) The sniper rifle has advantage over long range, but if the Magnum user can avoid the shots and get close enough the Magnum's chance increases greatly.
-Wavedashing and whatever else there is. I've never used these since I never learned how. I'm just going to say, it wasn't meant to be used like that, but it is. And apparently it is a good technique to use and every character is different within it. They might leave it in, they might not. IMO they will leave it it.

 

[wazgood]

-Wavedashing and whatever else there is. I've never used these since I never learned how. I'm just going to say, it wasn't meant to be used like that, but it is.

ahh why yall gotta be hatin

 

[OnyxVulpine]

ahh why yall gotta be hatin

I'm not "hatin" I was just saying, it wasn't meant to be used the way it is. But it is continuously used in that way even in competitive play. So obviously its a skill and makes the game have alittle more to it.

 

[Dylan_Tnga]

I'm not "hatin" I was just saying, it wasn't meant to be used the way it is.

Many people have the same opinion as you, wherin the wavedash was ''non intentional'' or it wasn't meant to be in the game.

I would ask you to consider for a moment, the Formalist school of thought when it came to critisizing a work of art, which I would classify SSBM under, videogames to me are an artform.

Aesthetically speaking, formalism is the concept that everything necessary in a work of art is contained within it. The context for the work, including the reason for its creation, the historical background, and the life of the artist, is not considered to be significant.

In laymans terms, this means that once something is created, the intentions of its creators do not matter, and the object itself lives sepperate from its creator and even from the world in which it exists.

I use this philosophy when looking at the wavedash. Perhaps it was not intended, but it is in the game. And once a game is released, the intentions of the developers do not matter as the game exists as a sepperate entity from it's creators altogether.


EDIT : Vulpine this is not directed at you, it is directed at the argument that wavedashing should be out since it wasnt intentional as a whole.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

I don't know what that means!... And I didn't say for them to take it out. Even if it was a glitch/exploit or whatever. I'm going to end up using it in Brawl if it is left in.

 

[WIND SMASHER X]

Character Balance,some people say its not a big deal but I would love to see the best Mewtwo and best Marth/Fox go at it. Its pretty obvious who has the advantage there. I don't think high tier characters need to be nerfed but lower ones need to be buffed IMO.

 

[Teben]

nerfed kirby =(

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Now that I think of it more.... Basically balance... It's EVERYTHING (Including Wavedashing and what not).. Other than Online I suppose.

 

[Icetrash]

I hope you realise characters will never be balanced. When creating SSBM they probably did their best to balance all characters but it is us that find the weaknesses and strengths in characters. Brawl will probably be the same, but in Brawl they may send an update that balances.

Also in the offical DOJO website is says "An easy-to-use character, Mario sets the standard for balance." under Marios character profile. Is this referring to Mario been once again a middle teir meaning there are characters both below and above him in Brawls new tier?

 

[WIND SMASHER X]

I hope you realise characters will never be balanced. When creating SSBM they probably did their best to balance all characters but it is us that find the weaknesses and strengths in characters. Brawl will probably be the same, but in Brawl they may send an update that balances.

Also in the offical DOJO website is says "An easy-to-use character, Mario sets the standard for balance." under Marios character profile. Is this referring to Mario been once again a middle teir meaning there are characters both below and above him in Brawls new tier?

Yeah I realize its hard to balance the characters in a fighting game,especially one like Smash Bros. Thats why its a pretty good thing that they have plenty of time to work on Brawl.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

Yes, of course balance is hard to obtain. Nothing is perfect, we're just going to have to find out maybe a year after Brawl comes out. Which are on top and which are on the bottom yet again.

 

[Takeshi245]

Yes, of course balance is hard to obtain. Nothing is perfect, we're just going to have to find out maybe a year after Brawl comes out. Which are on top and which are on the bottom yet again.

Except this time, I don't think it'll be too bad since they have balance in mind, even if it won't truly be balanced.

 

[SSB_FANATIC]

The worst thing was that it didn't have online.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Actually, the best thing was that is didn't have online.

 

[Nintendofreak]

But if was not online, how could you get to play people that you would want to across the globe? I know that tournements show up and local people, but online really can bring out the game's real potential of pros that you can face.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

If think that if SSBM had online, the competitive metagame would not have advanced as much, and it wouldn't be as social a game as it is now. The best part of Melee for me is going to smashfests and tourneys to play with guys in your neighborhood. I just don't think there would have been as many social smash gatherings if it were online.

Plus there would've been lag.

 

[Nintendofreak]

True, the games would not be social, but the wii might have headset compatibilites. Now about lag...that will have to be nintendo's miracle to fix that.

 

[DMStudios]

. . . . .Fox. . . . . . .

 

[M.K]

The sheer fact that any n00b who knows how to hold a controller can get Fox to do anything.

-.- I hate how everyone idolizes him SO much

 

[Icetrash]

-.- I hate how everyone idolizes him SO much

Everyone? Woah I must be missing out on some fun then.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Yeah me too lol. I missed the part where Fox became an idol.

 

[WIND SMASHER X]

If anything more noobs try to use Marth more than Fox imo.

 

[OnyxVulpine]

!!!!! Wii needs headset!! ><.. I agree with that online thing though. Social... But if the Wii had a headset then...