What do the pros think?

[Prax]

I think he will be high mid tier to low high tier. He would be better if he wasn't so easily gimped by projectiles.

 

[payasofobia]

mmm i wonder how many posts more do i need to stop being a smash noob...

anyway,now, lots of the other characters need a lot of hits to manage to ko an opponent, while ike can rack up damage quickly and then, somewhere between 60-90 percent, ko them, while most of the other characters ko ike at 150-250 because he is heavy.
also, i think ike is very good because he has a lot of moves hat can be used in different sittuations
an opponent is attempting to perform a star ko on you?neutral b
edgehoggers, driving you crazy? a well timed aether will do it
your projectile- less enemy is playing defensively? charge up your forward b and wait for the right moment
your pesky opponent is attempting to recover? why bother trying to spike them in midair
when you can just spike them on the ledge with your down a
see?

 

[payasofobia]

Woooooot!!!

 

[Prax]

Woooooot!!!

What is that for?

 

[payasofobia]

im no longer a smash noob
read my post before that

 

[Prax]

oh, ok then, you could have just edited it out though.

 

[Falconv1.0]

That's where bair, counter, AAA, spacing, and mindgames come into play. But for the average player, yea ike can be easily overwhelmed.

Any character can sue mindgames I believe, plus, COUNTER SUCKS YOU MORON.


And AAA is not a defensive option, and we're talking about his ability to defend himself.

Eruption is a better counter than counter...period.

And seriously, stop basing arguments off of videos. It's getting reaaallly ****ing annoying.

 

[Endless Nightmares]

Status is just based on posts, it's not important.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Any character can sue mindgames I believe, plus, COUNTER SUCKS YOU MORON.


And AAA is not a defensive option, and we're talking about his ability to defend himself.

Eruption is a better counter than counter...period.

And seriously, stop basing arguments off of videos. It's getting reaaallly ****ing annoying.

Somebody's anal cavity wasn't massaged properly last night.

 

[e105beta]

Well i been playing ike for quite some time now and yes it does seem that you cant Really focus on aerials with ike but to do follow up combos with ike is not impossible and not bad at all. Like you can easily do a jab jab combo into down smash which would send your opp up maybe lead it to an up smash, but in reality ike will not be top tier but be high tier. How high? not #1 but high.. and his aerials can make spacing so easy if done correctly

and lots of you might not now me but i do play competitive and live around the best : / md/va ftw <--(shamelss plug)

I like Ike's aerials, personally. Dair and Nair are good for doing damage and are fairly easy to hit. Jab jab combo down smash does sound like it has potential...
Ike will not be top tier. I am 99.9% sure he will not even be top 3 high tier. I'm guessing he's going to end up around low high to high mid. Then again, I don't even see why I care now, since I play Ganondorf...now he's been frustratingly nerfed.

There are no pros..."up until now"....in 2009!

Seriously ,we don't know. Anyone who thinks Ike is set to be permate top/high/mid/low/bottom tier for sure is RETARTED! Everyone who's played Brawl SUCKS SO FAR! Good Players are NOT Born, they are made, after hundreds of hours of hard work, determination, and AT LEAST two years of practice.

Seriously, how dumb can you people get? What next, the return of the "omg1!!!! Megaman Confirmed in Brawl (with Broly) " thread, or what=???

TIRES DON EXITS IN BRAWLZ....yet!!!...

Yeah, but we can discuss our opinions, can't we? In the original post I was actually just calling out to melee pros, since they seem to not only have the disk, but the relative skill and are the "best" players playing brawl right now. That's not saying much.

Now I'm not saying Ike can't win, I just don't think he will be anywhere near high tier. I mean hey, I played G&W in Melee, I know it's possible for every character to win.

Good point. It just requires a bit more effort to win with lower tiers.

Any character can sue mindgames I believe, plus, COUNTER SUCKS YOU MORON.


And AAA is not a defensive option, and we're talking about his ability to defend himself.

Eruption is a better counter than counter...period.

And seriously, stop basing arguments off of videos. It's getting reaaallly ****ing annoying.

He's right, mindgames aren't just for slow characters. Ike's counter especially sucks. It's probably the most situational move in the game, and 19 times out of 20, there's a better move.

The game has been out long enough that everyone arguing their points should have played or watched (in person, because amazingly, banter actually helps you understand how a game is played better.) brawl before making a point.

Status is just based on posts, it's not important.

Completely true.

 

[VersatileBJN]

"He's right, mindgames aren't just for slow characters. Ike's counter especially sucks. It's probably the most situational move in the game, and 19 times out of 20, there's a better move."

Situational translated to sucking....when? I must of missed that one in my 5+ years of playing fighting game competitively.

Counter will be ineffective if it is used in an ineffective manner. Ike recovers from counter almost instantly after it's active frames. Same situation for Marth. This is far different from the situation Marth and Roy were put in upon missing a counter in Melee.

The reward is still the same, 1.2x the damage the move would of done PLUS the same knock back. In a game where everything is slower and far more deliberate in execution, counter will see far more use than in Melee.

It is used to punish predictability or when you anticipate an attack. If used in this manner it is not useless.

Falconv1, AAA is not a defensive move? It is used as offense and defense.

News flash, most character's ONLY defensive options are what everyone else has: a side step, air dodge, roll, and shield. Ike has all of these

Other means of defense normally stem from moves.

AAA knocks back, comes out quick and has solid priority. It is a defensive move just as much as it is an offensive move.

Saying Eruption is a better counter than counter baffles me. Eruption is certainly a good move when used correctly, but it's SA frames only occur when he brings the sword down. How that will counter, say, a smash attack or a short hopped aerial is beyond my comprehension.

 

[e105beta]

"He's right, mindgames aren't just for slow characters. Ike's counter especially sucks. It's probably the most situational move in the game, and 19 times out of 20, there's a better move."

Situational translated to sucking....when? I must of missed that one in my 5+ years of playing fighting game competitively.

Counter will be ineffective if it is used in an ineffective manner. Ike recovers from counter almost instantly after it's active frames. Same situation for Marth. This is far different from the situation Marth and Roy were put in upon missing a counter in Melee.

The reward is still the same, 1.2x the damage the move would of done PLUS the same knock back. In a game where everything slower and far more deliberate in execution, counter will see far more use than in Melee.

It is used to punish predictability or when you anticipate an attack. If used in this manner it is not useless.

Falconv1, AAA is not a defensive move? It is used as offense and defense.

News flash, most character's ONLY defensive options are what everyone else has: a side step, air dodge, roll, and shield. Ike has all of these

Other means of defense normally stem from moves.

AAA knocks back, comes out quick and has solid priority. It is a defensive move just as much as it is an offensive move.

Saying Eruption is a better counter than counter baffles me. Eruption is certainly a good move when used correctly, but it's SA frames only occur when he brings the sword down. How that will counter, say, a smash attack or a shop hopped aerial is beyond my comprehension.

Well, that sentence only works when the whole thing is read together. When something can only be used in only a few scenario's and be effective, and also considering the fact that usually, there's a better move, it becomes a pretty sucky move.

Marth and Ike's counters have little lag after the move, but Ike's doesn't come up as fast as Marth's. That's where eruption comes in. If you have the time to press B and initiate the attack, you don't flinch, and with the huge splash range, it CAN (emphasis on can) counter a short hop. And it's more powerful.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Falconv1, AAA is not a defensive move? It is used as offense and defense.

News flash, most character's ONLY defensive options are what everyone else has: a side step, air dodge, roll, and shield. Ike has all of these

One could argue that means any offensive move could be used for defense..

Saying Eruption is a better counter than counter baffles me. Eruption is certainly a good move when used correctly, but it's SA frames only occur when he brings the sword down. How that will counter, say, a smash attack or a short hopped aerial is beyond my comprehension.

When I said it's a better counter, I didn't mean use it like counter, but I find it more effective as a means of stopping an attack than counter.

Tried using counter the way you said, and I'll take back my statement that it sucks, but I find other moves to be easier and more effective to use. Meh, certain things will prove me right or wrong in the future, I dont really care.

 

[Zukaza]

One could argue that means any offensive move could be used for defense..



When I said it's a better counter, I didn't mean use it like counter, but I find it more effective as a means of stopping an attack than counter.

Tried using counter the way you said, and I'll take back my statement that it sucks, but I find other moves to be easier and more effective to use. Meh, certain things will prove me right or wrong in the future, I dont really care.

In the end, its just what works for you. I know alot of players who dont use all of a characters moves simply because they dont like it with their playing style. It just depends how you feel like playing the character. Of course some characters are meant to be used more for just running in and downright brawling. As to where some characters play it safe and stay back and launch stuff at you.

 

[VersatileBJN]

Well, in response to you saying that any move can be used defensively...not really dude.

Defensive moves need priority, speed, and preferably range.

Move like, say, Ike's forward smash lacks the first two. It really cannot be used to keep someone out. Aether can't be used in a defensive manner, either. Same for most of his tilts.

Speaking of tilts.

What's the word on Ike's down tilt? I don't see it used much at all. I know it's slower than Marth's down tilt. Does it have similar properties?


Beta, if a situational move always has a better option in front of it then yes it does suck. However, I do not see that as the case with counter.

Is there a better option to punishing an anticipated smash attack or a powerful aerial? Not really. Especially when he's so **** slow and he needs time to develop his attacks. You could say that AAA is a better move for the above situations, but much a lot the time these aerials and smashes are safe, and even when they aren't, a countered move that does, say 22%, multipled by 1.2 + the same knock back properties is infinitely more rewarding and puts you in a better spot than doing AAA which was probably weakened by spamming it.

Really, I apologize if I'm acting like I know what's up. I know I do not have the game yet, but I do believe I posess the intelligence(as do all of you) to analyze what has been found so far and apply it to realistic scenarios to formulate proper approaches to how the character should be played before we can even get our hands on him.

just my 25 cents.

 

[e105beta]

Aether can't be used in a defensive manner, either. Same for most of his tilts.

Aether is a very defensive move! The super armor at the beginning of the move makes it so. Opponent approaches you, use Aether, problem solved.

What's the word on Ike's down tilt? I don't see it used much at all. I know it's slower than Marth's down tilt. Does it have similar properties?

I know that it spikes...

Beta, if a situational move always has a better option in front of it then yes it does suck. However, I do not see that as the case with counter.

Is there a better option to punishing an anticipated smash attack or a powerful aerial? Not really. Especially when he's so **** slow and he needs time to develop his attacks. You could say that AAA is a better move for the above situations, but much a lot the time these aerials and smashes are safe, and even when they aren't, a countered move that does, say 22%, multipled by 1.2 + the same knock back properties is infinitely more rewarding and puts you in a better spot than doing AAA which was probably weakened by spamming it.

Really, I apologize if I'm acting like I know what's up. I know I do not have the game yet, but I do believe I posess the intelligence(as do all of you) to analyze what has been found so far and apply it to realistic scenarios to formulate proper approaches to how the character should be played before we can even get our hands on him.

just my 25 cents.

I would agree with you if it wasn't Ike's counter. The idea of a counter is to be quick and unexpected. Ike's isn't instant.

I still stick with eruption for that, because it shoots above you, and it can't be interrupted. Yes, you might end up taking some damage, but it usually seems worth it.

I have no problem with you discussing it in a reasonable manner as long as it stays reasonable. I mean, it's not like you're calling us n00bz or anything.

 

[VersatileBJN]

"Aether is a very defensive move! The super armor at the beginning of the move makes it so. Opponent approaches you, use Aether, problem solved."

Not really. Even with SA frames you still take damage, and it will only connect on the ground up close. If I were fighting Ike I would just block that and punish him badly.

Counter may not come out insantly, but it's start up is fast enough to counter something if anticipated. No question.

 

[SCOTU]

counter also prevents juggling sometimes, can work as a ledgehop, and can stop some edgeguards.

 

[Hokkaido]

Well, in response to you saying that any move can be used defensively...not really dude.

Defensive moves need priority, speed, and preferably range.

Move like, say, Ike's forward smash lacks the first two. It really cannot be used to keep someone out. Aether can't be used in a defensive manner, either. Same for most of his tilts.

Speaking of tilts.

What's the word on Ike's down tilt? I don't see it used much at all. I know it's slower than Marth's down tilt. Does it have similar properties?


Beta, if a situational move always has a better option in front of it then yes it does suck. However, I do not see that as the case with counter.

Is there a better option to punishing an anticipated smash attack or a powerful aerial? Not really. Especially when he's so **** slow and he needs time to develop his attacks. You could say that AAA is a better move for the above situations, but much a lot the time these aerials and smashes are safe, and even when they aren't, a countered move that does, say 22%, multipled by 1.2 + the same knock back properties is infinitely more rewarding and puts you in a better spot than doing AAA which was probably weakened by spamming it.

Really, I apologize if I'm acting like I know what's up. I know I do not have the game yet, but I do believe I posess the intelligence(as do all of you) to analyze what has been found so far and apply it to realistic scenarios to formulate proper approaches to how the character should be played before we can even get our hands on him.

just my 25 cents.

On the contrary, I found Aether amazing in keeping my opponent wary of approaching me from the sky, mainly because of its super frames and because hitting the opponent with his sword often sucks them into the rest of the attack. Sure, the lag isn't good if you miss, but it's still a good defensive move.

Remember Link's D-Tilt from melee? It's about that. People have spoken about SAFs on this move as well, but I haven't managed to pull this off correctly a single time during play yet (except when I'm edgeguarding with it). I've seen it hit and the angle it knocks characters at is interesting (something like 45%, perhaps a bit more horizontal) from what I've seen, but I don't really incorporate it into my serious play...

Time to do more research on that D-Tilt.

 

[VersatileBJN]

counter also prevents juggling sometimes, can work as a ledgehop, and can stop some edgeguards.

I didn't even think of the last two dude. Good ****

Using that off a ledge hot would probably mess people up some kind of fierce until they adjust and you're forced to swtich up. Still, having it as an option afterwards is tight.

As for edge guarding, I actually did think of this in the past, but the auto sweet spot mechanics of the ledge made me disregard it. Maybe if you can counter their attacks before that happens it could be amazing.


Run off the stage and counter FTW.

Hok, I was referring mainly as using Aether on the ground. I didn't think of the air much, but I suppose that could be solid too! Only if all 3 hits connected consistently tho. Do they?

Thanks for the analysis of down tilt.

 

[Hokkaido]

I didn't even think of the last two dude. Good ****

Using that off a ledge hot would probably mess people up some kind of fierce until they adjust and you're forced to swtich up. Still, having it as an option afterwards is tight.

As for edge guarding, I actually did think of this in the past, but the auto sweet spot mechanics of the ledge made me disregard it. Maybe if you can counter their attacks before that happens it could be amazing.


Run off the stage and counter FTW.

Hok, I was referring mainly as using Aether on the ground. I didn't think of the air much, but I suppose that could be solid too! Only if all 3 hits connected consistently tho. Do they?

Thanks for the analysis of down tilt.

Yep, I meant starting Aether while Ike was on the ground- instead of shielding/side-dodging then grabbing out of your shield (or using another quick attack to punish their whiffed aerial), Ike's Aether for the most part pretty much makes a large part of the space directly above Ike dangerous to recklessly fly into... assuming it doesn't miss the opponent.

If you use the grounded Aether near the edge while an opponent's trying to recover, you can autospot the ledge and hope to use the second to last hit to send them downwards off the stage.

Ike's Aether is really only like Kirby's in appearance (and without the beam at the end); the part where he throws his sword up, spins and catches it dishes out more combo-hits than I can remember, and if the opponent is caught in the first sword throw he usually gets pulled down, is automatically hit by his descending strike and gets bounced back up again by the point where his sword hits the ground (also opening up some sweet chase options)

 

[Falconv1.0]

e10, Aether can be predicted, and dodged. Then someone can grab Ike, and start punishing...

Aether is a fun move, but you're analysis of it is just wrong...

Holy ****, suddenly I like using counter as much as eruption.

>_> I feel like a hypocrite.

 

[Hokkaido]

e10, Aether can be predicted, and dodged. Then someone can grab Ike, and start punishing...

Aether is a fun move, but you're analysis of it is just wrong...

Holy ****, suddenly I like using counter as much as eruption.

>_> I feel like a hypocrite.

Using Aether fresh out against a grounded opponent (or an opponent that's dashing towards you to approach, in other words) isn't something I'd recommend... sure, it can work, but I can think of plenty of better options that have the same startup and either similar or less overall lag after the finish...

Unfortunately, I'm still not completely sure about Ike's counter. I know that it starts a bit later compared to Marth's insta-happy one, but I'm not sure if the frame of time for it to initiate is like Roy's or closer to Marth's (I actually spent an entire round screwing around with it, but I haven't gone into training to test it out yet). Either way, it's always rewarding when I did it successfully (bonus points for counter kill), but I stuck to using the SAF moves since I was more familiar with them =/

 

[Falconv1.0]

Using Aether fresh out against a grounded opponent (or an opponent that's dashing towards you to approach, in other words) isn't something I'd recommend... sure, it can work, but I can think of plenty of better options that have the same startup and either similar or less overall lag after the finish...

Unfortunately, I'm still not completely sure about Ike's counter. I know that it starts a bit later compared to Marth's insta-happy one, but I'm not sure if the frame of time for it to initiate is like Roy's or closer to Marth's (I actually spent an entire round screwing around with it, but I haven't gone into training to test it out yet). Either way, it's always rewarding when I did it successfully (bonus points for counter kill), but I stuck to using the SAF moves since I was more familiar with them =/

Just the amount of power behind counter is pretty broken though. XP

 

[VersatileBJN]

Yeah, like, if you're looking to counter a weak move like a jab or a weak tilt it probably isn't worth the risk.

Though I would argue that there are situations in fighters when you are in such a zone where you have absolute mental dominance over his opponent to the point where it isn't even applying educated guessing and anticipation to your decisions. You simply KNOW exactly what they will do before they even know. That is the best feeling you could possibly experience in any sort of fighting game to me.

Went off into my own little world there, but counter should probably come into play when you expect something powerful so that you can really make them hurt for it.

Countering a 7% move with Ike gives you like a 10% return with very little knock back. So that kind of situation is meh to me.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Yeah, like, if you're looking to counter a weak move like a jab or a weak tilt it probably isn't worth the risk.

Though I would argue that there are situations in fighters when you are in such a zone where you have absolute mental dominance over his opponent to the point where it isn't even applying educated guessing and anticipation to your decisions. You simply KNOW exactly what they will do before they even know. That is the best feeling you could possibly experience in any sort of fighting game to me.

Went off into my own little world there, but counter should probably come into play when you expect something powerful so that you can really make them hurt for it.

Countering a 7% move with Ike gives you like a 10% return with very little knock back. So that kind of situation is meh to me.

But countering an attack that originally 20%...

^_^;

lol, Eruption is fun to use against the stupid *** computer.

 

[e105beta]

e10, Aether can be predicted, and dodged. Then someone can grab Ike, and start punishing...

Aether is a fun move, but you're analysis of it is just wrong...

Holy ****, suddenly I like using counter as much as eruption.

>_> I feel like a hypocrite.

A LOT of moves can be predicted and dodged...especially if you use them too much, which I'm not suggesting.

Went off into my own little world there, but counter should probably come into play when you expect something powerful so that you can really make them hurt for it.

Countering a 7% move with Ike gives you like a 10% return with very little knock back. So that kind of situation is meh to me.

I guess that works. I'm just used to Marth's counter so much, I enjoy the quick "bring up the sword" time and it's nice and consistent.

Not really. Even with SA frames you still take damage, and it will only connect on the ground up close. If I were fighting Ike I would just block that and punish him badly.

Counter may not come out insantly, but it's start up is fast enough to counter something if anticipated. No question.

True, you do take damage. Blockwise, it depends one when you use it, and what the situation is. I mean, you can't really just say "I'd block it. End of story." If I use it out of range, then yes, it won't work, but then I'd use something else...

 

[Zukaza]

This nonsense of Ikes counter not being instant is getting to me. So exactly how much downtime until the counter is initiated. I noticed one time i used my counter and i was punished by a falcon punch It took me and my friend completely off guard. He even thought that the counter shouldve punished him instead. I dont have the game yet so i cant go test it. Any one know exactly whats up.

 

[Falconv1.0]

This nonsense of Ikes counter not being instant is getting to me. So exactly how much downtime until the counter is initiated. I noticed one time i used my counter and i was punished by a falcon punch It took me and my friend completely off guard. He even thought that the counter shouldve punished him instead. I dont have the game yet so i cant go test it. Any one know exactly whats up.

Zukaza, you really, really need to lurk moar. Ever single time I see you, you're asking a question that isn't that hard to figure out by looking around, or you're making an uninformed statement.

:burst:

 

[blizzard138]

I'm no pro, but I consider myself fairly unbiased towards characters.

Ike is really good. He's no Roy. He's really good in ways Captain Falcon was considered good in Melee, and more! He has great killing strength, insane hitboxes, and awesome mobility.

I disagree, his mobility sucks

 

[Digital Angel]

Bottom tier.

 

[xYz]

lol, you guys obviously don't know how hard it is to approach a good ike. Everyone here is pretty much a scrub/noob with ike.... Challenge me thru Wifi, i'll show you what it's like to fight a god tier.

*BRING IT !!!!

brawl fc is on the left.

 

[ama(m/t)]

i've been challenging your dumb butt since you've been hosting those fl brawlfests

 

[Eddie G]

xyz, gladly.

My FC is 4124-4668-0022

Let's do it

 

[Eddie G]

post lag...my apologies

 

[xYz]

i've been challenging your dumb butt since you've been hosting those fl brawlfests

ahhaha, ama.. my bad dude... I always see your request, but im usually just doing brawl fest at my place. I'll add you mang.

beef, ok cool... show me what you got. i'm at work, i'll add ya when i get home

c0Ltn x is my aim.

 

[VersatileBJN]

If I request someone's via putting in their friendcode, does it pop up for them or do I have to give them mine first before they can even see that I've requested them?

 

[ama(m/t)]

why don't you try making friends

 

[pyro363]

how many pros do you think us the people know

If i were to say something i would say he's awsome and if you think of maining him it's a good idea

 

[.kR0]

His a solid counter against almost any character without a good projectile.

Toon and Lucas ***** him though, no question. Ike has absolutely ****ty mobility and recovery and those two can abuse their projectile on you 24/7.