What could Link benefit from?

[NaijaboyIrin]

Double post because I wasn't allowed to put both of the pics up in one post.
.View attachment 2183

 

[Deleted member]

Please tell me that pic of Dair hitboxes isn't still true. Please...

 

[NaijaboyIrin]

Never mind. I fixed them. If anyone wants to see the 2.6 dair and uair picts, go see the last post on the first page.

 

[Strong Badam]

Why weren't the dair and uair hitboxes changed?
When you compare Link's Dair to stuff like Ganon Dair and Mario Dair, the hitboxes visually don't make sense.
Also, Uair's hitboxes still don't cover the tip of the sword. I'm just wondering why not, since Marth's Usmash hitboxes got that treatment despite being one of his least used moves.

All of those moves have relatively short hit durations, and so their hitboxes can and should "make sense." Those moves, while perhaps not requiring a particularly high level of finesse in terms of spacing, do require significantly higher skill to time properly. Link's Dair and Uair, contrarily, not only linger significantly, are sword attacks, which even with relatively less disjoint than the rest of his moveset, still give Link more disjoint than over 90% of the rest of the cast enjoys on any of their moves, even the most egregious ones.

 

[Zane the pure]

I think one of the best ways to improve Link's arrow game is giving him the ability to jump when on ground (or double jump), Let him move when charging on ground, and let him shield cancel them to add mind games/mix-up or make the move safer in general. I like the aerial movement with The arrows currently, so why not the ground + jumping options.

That aside, If Link can't create enough space to zone his opponent, can't shrug them off when they're too close, and or can't at least get away when needed, He is out of options. His close range game has too much downtime to be effective against the pure CQC characters. (Several Match ups come to mind)

 

[l3thargy]

I think one of the best ways to improve Link's arrow game is giving him the ability to jump when on ground (or double jump), Let him move when charging on ground, and let him shield cancel them to add mind games/mix-up or make the move safer in general. I like the aerial movement with The arrows currently, so why not the ground + jumping options

What this guy said, also I think giving him the ability to angle his arrows 45° up or down would be pretty interesting to see especially if you add in the stuff Zane said.

 

[Zane the pure]

also I think giving him the ability to angle his arrows 45° up or down would be pretty interesting to see especially if you add in the stuff Zane said.

In much the same way as pit can shoot forward or upward (minus arrow control)
Link's archery skills in all the games were pretty spiffy, why would he have to be limited here? I mean it's not like he's menacing the meta right?
That would contribute to some serious zoning potential, with the drawback of committal mitigated by shield canceling like DK's punch, or PSamus' power beam.

 

[Fortress]

I'd appreciate being able to jump out of, or at least shield out of Link's bow. There are a lot of times when I feel like my opponent can just rush me faster than I anticipated, and I have to take the time to fire the bow off, and wait to be able to do stuff again. Being able to shield out of a charged arrow without firing it would be neat, because Link would just be able to do his grab straight from his shield and still have a little bit of an attack option from a shield-cancelled bow.

Is it at all possible to make his bombs more 'durable' so that Links could do more shenanigans with their bombs and 'rangs? I loved batting those things around in Smash 64 with the boomerang, and you could get some crazy angles and catches with bombs using it.

 

[Sarix]

On the subject of the arrows I feel they just need more utility overall. So far they are only good for edgeguarding and pressure filler in zoning. Realistically as a stand alone projectile they are very 'meh' and outclassed by both the bombs and the boomerang for zoning and overall utility. My personal take would be to make them the Ice Arrows. Whenever they hit the ground they could drop a PK Freeze snowflake or some other ice particle in the game, no larger than the average character width, to mark where it landed for 3-4 seconds tops. If an opponent touches it the particle detonates and freezes them for a very few frames, just long enough that if Link is nearby he can follow up. Link would only be able to place up to 2-3 of these on stage and after the duration expires, the particles simultaneously detonate. This would add to Link's indirect pressure game, zoning, stage control, and it would make the arrows more synergistic with the rest of his projectiles. It would also allow the arrows to become a much better stand alone projectile.

Just my opinion.

 

[Fortress]

On the subject of the arrows I feel they just need more utility overall. So far they are only good for edgeguarding and pressure filler in zoning. Realistically as a stand alone projectile they are very 'meh' and outclassed by both the bombs and the boomerang for zoning and overall utility. My personal take would be to make them the Ice Arrows. Whenever they hit the ground they could drop a PK Freeze snowflake or some other ice particle in the game, no larger than the average character width, to mark where it landed for 3-4 seconds tops. If an opponent touches it the particle detonates and freezes them for a very few frames, just long enough that if Link is nearby he can follow up. Link would only be able to place up to 2-3 of these on stage and after the duration expires, the particles simultaneously detonate. This would add to Link's indirect pressure game, zoning, stage control, and it would make the arrows more synergistic with the rest of his projectiles. It would also allow the arrows to become a much better stand alone projectile.

Just my opinion.

It'd be cool (hah), but I feel like that would turn Link into a really campy character. The dude has some excellent approach and attack options with the Boomerang, and can set up traps with the bombs to an extent, but I feel as if the arrows having some sort of elemental effect and trap utility could turn it into a Din's Fire of sorts. Not that it's not cool, but I don't think that would fit his playstyle.

I think you're onto something though, and that the arrows, while your standard vanilla projectile, might be able to be tweaked a bit. Though, the arrows being somewhat useless in THEMSELVES is something that jives very well with me; not every attack should be a response to a situation, and not every attack needs to be stellar. Having more options OUT of Bow would probably be the way to go, such as shield-cancelling a charged shot.

 

[Sarix]

With something like the Ice Arrows Link would gain offensive and defensive utility. I think it would fit his play style just fine as he already uses traps and indirect pressure to bait shielding and mistakes. Though your point on Din's Fire is valid as there are Link players who would prefer a more defensive play style (Myself, Hylian, and likely Sanity not included) the difference between Link & Zelda is that Zelda is very linear in nature compared to Link's much more quadratic options.

Improving a projectile will almost always enable better camping, and in the Smash community projectile buffs tend to be followed by the mentality "Oh great more camping" and assume everyone will only play keepaway. However in Link's case, most of his projectiles are slower and more indirect in nature which makes for an effective camping game but Link's projectiles are much more rewarding on the offensive for pressure and lockdown.

The idea came from how Rachel uses her Tiny Lobelia in Blazblue. You can play keepaway with them and go into Sword Iris for walls, but it's the inferior option compared to using lobelias at the end of combos and Sword Iris for a combo extender.

While options out of arrows would be nice, zoning is all about limiting your opponent's options and maximizing your own. The bombs and boomerang do this quite nicely, while the arrows don't bring anything to really further the player's game plan. Even with options out of the arrow, how would that encourage using it over the boomerang or bombs which even without using any options out of them bring a lot to Link's gameplay? I don't think Link's arrows need to be the core of his gameplay but with the ice trap effect they would work together better with the rest of his kit and follow his theme of being a high utility zoner.

 

[Fortress]

My main beef with making the Bow itself do more is that it really doesn't need to. Having more options from Bow would be great, like Jump-cancelling it, or Shield-cancelling it, but it doesn't need to be another multi-tool in Link's already-expansive toolbelt. Not every attack has to have a purpose for every situation. Take Sheik's chain, for example. It's a derpy little attack that I'm sure has some applications outside of chain-jacketing. Link's Bow has been improved well enough statwise, what with the increased knockback, damage, and retention of its Brawl trajectory. Maybe I just feel like the Ice effect is too radical of a change for Link, simply too different.

Making the comparison to another game, in my opinion, isn't a very appropriate thing to do. BlazBlue and Smash Bros are two entirely different games, to say the very least. I mean, I know that I wouldn't want Ike's counter to function like Haku-Men's, that's for sure.

Link's Boomerang zones incredibly well, and sets him up for great offensive approaches. I know that whenever I approach with him, it's never without a Boomerang flying through the air, or coming back at me to reel an opponent in for a neat little F-Air. As far as filling multiple roles goes, I feel as if Link's Boomerang does enough already to make up for what the Bow doesn't; it covers his approaches, supplements his combo game, aids in close and precise edgeguarding, and can even provide some minor cover during a recovery attempt.

I just don't think that an Ice Trap, as nice as a utility as that would honestly be, would be the way to go for Link. Though you're right, and that the Bow doesn't need to be the core of his ranged game, it's fine on its own as an attack option; keeping opponents far from the stage with more speed and power than that of the Boomerang, with higher knockback as well, while keeping Link himself far from danger.

The only thing I can think of that would improve the Bow outright (not that it needs to be, again, Sheik's chain is an excellent example of the dud move), would be to give Link a simple option such as Shield, Jump, or even Grab out of an arrow being charged. Link's pretty much helpless while charging the thing, immobile and whatnot. But, then again, he, like any character, shouldn't have an option for every situation.

Edit: Haku-Men > Rachel, and you know it. It's simply a matter of considering JUSTICE, JUSTICE, JUSTICE. COLD STEEL, WHITE VOID, ET CETERA.

 

[Sarix]

Having more options from Bow would be great, like Jump-cancelling it, or Shield-cancelling it, but it doesn't need to be another multi-tool in Link's already-expansive toolbelt. Not every attack has to have a purpose for every situation. Take Sheik's chain, for example. It's a derpy little attack that I'm sure has some applications outside of chain-jacketing.

Again the problem is, why would anyone bother using the bow in the first place when the boomerang and bombs virtually outclass it in the majority of situations? I never said it would be a hyper utility tool, it would merely have an additional effect that would merit using the bow more. The idea was for it to improve Link's pressure game, stage control, and add more to his general zoning, not to be a catch all card. The way you're reacting to just the idea of it is similar to how many Link players received the 2.6 boomerang, rejecting it because it was different and not a minor tweak.

Making the comparison to another game, in my opinion, isn't a very appropriate thing to do. BlazBlue and Smash Bros are two entirely different games, to say the very least. I mean, I know that I wouldn't want Ike's counter to function like Haku-Men's, that's for sure.

Considering they've given Lucario SF style magic series, making a projectile function similar to another character's from a different game is far from out of the question. People compare two different types of fighting games all the time, it makes it easier to describe traits and situations. Several terms and strategies used in Smash are translated from classic 2D fighters so the point your trying to make on the inappropriateness of comparing two different fighters is moot because everyone does it.

The only thing I can think of that would improve the Bow outright (not that it needs to be, again, Sheik's chain is an excellent example of the dud move), would be to give Link a simple option such as Shield, Jump, or even Grab out of an arrow being charged. Link's pretty much helpless while charging the thing, immobile and whatnot. But, then again, he, like any character, shouldn't have an option for every situation.

The problem with dud moves is that in a game like Project M, they are trying to give function to and remove the 'dud' from the moves. And with a character like Link who has been historically bad, saying it's ok to have a mostly outclassed tool is not productive to improving a character. There are several possibilities for improving the bow, but I believe the first course of action is to give more reason to use it first.

Link is strictly a mid tier character for a reason atm. He is versatile but compared to characters who are in the higher tiers his kit doesn't give him any overwhelming advantages against the majority of the cast.

Edit: Haku-Men > Rachel, and you know it. It's simply a matter of considering JUSTICE, JUSTICE, JUSTICE. COLD STEEL, WHITE VOID, ET CETERA.

Prick much?

 

[Fortress]

Spoiler

Again the problem is, why would anyone bother using the bow in the first place when the boomerang and bombs virtually outclass it in the majority of situations? I never said it would be a hyper utility tool, it would merely have an additional effect that would merit using the bow more. The idea was for it to improve Link's pressure game, stage control, and add more to his general zoning, not to be a catch all card. The way you're reacting to just the idea of it is similar to how many Link players received the 2.6 boomerang, rejecting it because it was different and not a minor tweak.

I can see what you're saying with your first point, and having read it over a couple times, I agree. The Bow, on the large, doesn't see much use in Link's bread-and-butter game outside of preventing opponents from returning to the stage. It's a potent weapon that deals a decent amount of damage, but has little in the ways of being peppered into Link's attacking game, I can definitely see where you're coming from there. Don't get me wrong, I love the new Boomerang, it's amazing, and does everything I could need it to. I just have no idea how the Bow could be changed to be more effective during on-stage combat and pressure without drastically changing it.

Spoiler

Considering they've given Lucario SF style magic series, making a projectile function similar to another character's from a different game is far from out of the question. People compare two different types of fighting games all the time, it makes it easier to describe traits and situations. Several terms and strategies used in Smash are translated from classic 2D fighters so the point your trying to make on the inappropriateness of comparing two different fighters is moot because everyone does it.

I guess I'll have to give you a point on your second paragraph, as there is plenty to translate and take from other fighters to bring to the table here, and it wasn't exactly fair to just say it was 'inappropriate' as Smash Bros as a series is so largely different than your typical fighter. At least from the way I've seen and played it.

Spoiler

The problem with dud moves is that in a game like Project M, they are trying to give function to and remove the 'dud' from the moves. And with a character like Link who has been historically bad, saying it's ok to have a mostly outclassed tool is not productive to improving a character. There are several possibilities for improving the bow, but I believe the first course of action is to give more reason to use it first.

Link is strictly a mid tier character for a reason atm. He is versatile but compared to characters who are in the higher tiers his kit doesn't give him any overwhelming advantages against the majority of the cast.

This is the only point of yours that I have to disagree with (if I'm understanding what you meant), and that there's a large difference in improving a character, and making every move a viable response to every situation. It's okay for some characters to have quirky or subpar moves in an otherwise amazing moveset, with Sheik being my example again. She has a strong array of finishers, a great combo and chase game, and it wouldn't make too much sense to me to have a character with an amazing set of tools at their disposal to pile on one more that they didn't really need. Though, with that, I can see what you're saying with Link's bow; he's been a hard character to play as since Smash 64, and in a way can use every advantage he can get. The one thing I'm worried about seeing, however, is exactly what we addressed earlier, in Link having a catch-all method of beating out or following through with any approach.

I agree with you though when you say that there are reasons to improve Link's bow to make it a tool that Link players would be able to make more on-stage use out of. As a Link main, I share that sentiment, and would enjoy having more ways to use it.

Prick much?

...and I was just trying to lighten it up with the Haku-MenxRachel quip (even though I prefer H-Man). Hey, at least your LA Remix theme is better than mine. Ugh, I still hear "Tha name is HAKU-MEN" in my nightmares.

 

[Sarix]

...and I was just trying to lighten it up with the Haku-MenxRachel quip (even though I prefer H-Man). Hey, at least your LA Remix theme is better than mine. Ugh, I still hear "Tha name is HAKU-MEN" in my nightmares.

Sorry it just came off a prickish to me. I main Litchi in BB anyway, Weak Executioner all the way.

On Link though basically my issue is that he feels like a heavily buffed 64 Link, with a great boomerang and bombs while the bow is just... there. I agree that a useless normal or two isn't bad but a special, when each character only gets four, is a lot in Smash.

At least we can agree to disagree on some things. I was only bringing up the ice arrows as a possibility for improvement, it's by no means the best answer.

 

[Fortress]

Sorry it just came off a prickish to me. I main Litchi in BB anyway, Weak Executioner all the way.

On Link though basically my issue is that he feels like a heavily buffed 64 Link, with a great boomerang and bombs while the bow is just... there. I agree that a useless normal or two isn't bad but a special, when each character only gets four, is a lot in Smash.

At least we can agree to disagree on some things. I was only bringing up the ice arrows as a possibility for improvement, it's by no means the best answer.

Those Lichi/Love bubble feels... Can't wait for BBCP.

Yeah, I see what you mean with the Bow just being... there. Maybe it could have a faster startup and less endlag? I'd love to send somebody reeling with a Fair from on high, only to fall to the ground dropping two or three really fast arrows to push them down farther. I feel like elemental arrows are just Toon/Young Link's thing, but that's just me.

Hah, speaking of his special arrows. Picture this. A light arrow for a fully-charged arrow. Stuns for a very, very short time. Just picture the gimps. Or, and hear me out on this: bomb arrows, ala Link's Awakening. Just shoot a bomb out of the air and, well, who knows.

And X-Matic is totally my jam.

 

[Sarix]

Those Lichi/Love bubble feels... Can't wait for BBCP.

Yeah, I see what you mean with the Bow just being... there. Maybe it could have a faster startup and less endlag? I'd love to send somebody reeling with a Fair from on high, only to fall to the ground dropping two or three really fast arrows to push them down farther. I feel like elemental arrows are just Toon/Young Link's thing, but that's just me.

Hah, speaking of his special arrows. Picture this. A light arrow for a fully-charged arrow. Stuns for a very, very short time. Just picture the gimps. Or, and hear me out on this: bomb arrows, ala Link's Awakening. Just shoot a bomb out of the air and, well, who knows.

And X-Matic is totally my jam.

I'm glad the boob jokes for me playing Litchi have died down with some of my friends. If Samus gained longer combos with similar execution requirements to Litchi I would die happy. I plan on getting CP as well; lately I've been practicing her BnB combos which are incredibly tricky.

I was thinking Bomb Arrows a la TP a few months ago actually haha, just never posted about it.

I can see your point on the magic arrows being a TL thing, if anything I would've argued for him to get a fiery version with different effects. I feel like the Zelda players would get miffed if Link had the light arrow lol.

 

[Fortress]

I'm glad the boob jokes for me playing Litchi have died down with some of my friends. If Samus gained longer combos with similar execution requirements to Litchi I would die happy. I plan on getting CP as well; lately I've been practicing her BnB combos which are incredibly tricky.

I was thinking Bomb Arrows a la TP a few months ago actually haha, just never posted about it.

I can see your point on the magic arrows being a TL thing, if anything I would've argued for him to get a fiery version with different effects. I feel like the Zelda players would get miffed if Link had the light arrow lol.

Oh, I meant Arakune when I said "love bubble", because, well, he's just a swell dude. And Thin RED Line is damn HEROIC in Chronophantasma. I haven't touched BB:CS in a while, but I got pretty okay with Relius and Haku-Men.

Bomb Arrows would be... neat, but just way too impractical to rely on consistently. It'd be great for styling, though. Eh, Zelda's got Nayru's love, Zelda players aren't allowed to complain since they have the best neutral special in the entire game.

You have no idea how much this scenario infuriates me: "Oh, Mario, I see you just let go with a charged forward-smash, and the fire animation and everything has played out, and even the sound effect, but I'ma just stop you right there and just say that ZELDA HAS THE BEST ATTACK OF ALL TIME, OF ALL TIME".

Really, the thing is muuuuuuch much, much, much larger than it looks, and lasts longer than I feel it appears to. I'm going to just stop talking now before this turns into a Nayru's Love-hate thread.

 

[Sarix]

Not every attack has to have a purpose for every situation. Take Sheik's chain, for example. It's a derpy little attack that I'm sure has some applications outside of chain-jacketing..

If this comes off as catty I apologize but this just came to me and I feel I need to address this.

Sheik is a TERRIBLE example of a comparison to Link. As a whole Sheik is a character with great mobility, fast normals, a great grab game, access to multiple easy combo starters, and a good approach on top of that. Overall Sheik's listed and unlisted strengths greatly outweigh her weaknesses and having the chain as a gimmick is a luxury she can afford since the rest of her tools cover it very well.

Link on the other hand, has below average mobility, slower normals overall, and greatly relies on projectiles to gain momentum and control space. Link's normals cover nowhere near the level of options Sheik's do to excuse the heavily limited uses of the bow. Projectiles are core to zoning characters so a dud projectile with little utility especially for a character like Link, who is all about utility, only serves to limit or hurt their potential. Link's current predicament is that he is a jack of all trades whose versatility is good but unlike characters like Sheik, he is only average or a little above average in most areas.

 

[Fortress]

I wasn't comparing the two characters at all, just addressing the fact that it's okay for characters to have attacks that don't suit every situation.

 

[Hylian]

I think Link is in a pretty good place at the moment. Don't expect too many big changes again like from 2.1 -> 2.5 -> 2.6. Going to fix some bugs etc and maybe some very small balance changes but overall he's looking good to me and most people in the PMBR.

 

[Sarix]

On another note, would it be possible to get some updated frame data? It's difficult to get a full analysis without it for some game play notes I've been working on and consistently updating with each patch since 2.1. Just data on the moves that have been tweaked since then is all I need.

 

[Shin_Mazinkaiser]

Oh god. . . this is like Dudley's crouching jab in SF4 bad. . .

All of that stuff is well and good but honestly they just need to fix his hit bubbles... I have discussed this before and don't care to reiterate soooo... Behold.

This is just one hilarious example... This is why every utilt in the game goes through this move. I would encourage everyone in this thread to visit the link hitbubbles and frame data thread on the main PM Link section.

 

[Fortress]

That's gross. No wonder I have such an awful time trying to come down on folks with Link. I mean, Nair is a nice option for dropping on people, but you would think that the good ol' pointy stick to the face would be enough. Or, you know, hit easier.

 

[monkeyx4]

For links arrow improvement I would say to be able to angle them just like in his games plus Sc2 he could angle them that would be great for spacing/zoning.

With his bombs I think it would be a benefit to have them linger around when you drop them on the opponent or their shield, like in melee you can do a lot of mix ups and mind games doing. it helps a lot look at Aniki Or the Germs Link or Hdl works like a charm.

Other than that link is great imo

 

[monkeyx4]

Prime example of what I'm talking about with links Arrows. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_cEtO7Dyp4&feature=yo
utube_gdata_player

Look at 2:10 and 7:30 see how he can aim his arrows link could this in Pm he can take out peach and jiggs floating crap lol and edge guard.

Another example
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F9pYSXQyV8&feature=youtube_gdata_player

So for it not to be broken they can put ending lag when link aims it.

For his bombs look at 1:39 (Same video) instead of having one way to place bombs without blowing it up (Sh>zdrop) he should be able to place bombs like this without having to jump, thus giving him more options for stage control, kinda like how snake does when you take a nade out and hold down the CS and he does the low toss animation.

I think having these small things added to link would make him better on the battlefield.

 

[Hylian]

I don't believe it's possible to have link angle his arrow in different directions.

 

[Fortress]

I don't believe it's possible to have link angle his arrow in different directions.

I kind of thought this, too. Aren't articles one of the tougher things to mess with in regards to characters?

 

[l3thargy]

i've seen a hack of link throwing his arrow on a upwards angle so i know that that is possible to do

 

[monkeyx4]

What do you mean it isn't possible? It's just an animation adjustment right. Wouldn't it be as if ya made a new animation like a lot of different characters new moves implemented plus your just angling it soo it shouldn't be hard since the animation is already there.

Unless it's just game mechanics (hopefully this isn't the case)

 

[Hylian]

It's a lot more complicated than that heh.

 

[Fortress]

I was about to say, it's a lot more than just an animation that goes into it.

 

[monkeyx4]

well since that wouldn't work, could he get pit animation when aiming up and have arrows rain on ppl. The longer charge the longer it's it takes to come down from the sky.

Could ya do that?

And with my bomb idea could that work as well?

 

[Fortress]

That'd be kind of a derpy and slow attack, to be honest; shooting arrows up for them to come back down on people. Link has much better and much faster options than that. He doesn't need anything gimmicky done to his arrows like that. His bombs being able to be dropped in different ways, sure, that's practical and has some applications, but raining arrows down on players would just be slow. And, again, it's a lot more than just an animation.

 

[monkeyx4]

Wish his arrows were able to be angled, but at least his options for bomb plants still have a chance to be implemented .

 

[Fortress]

You have to look beyond "oh, this would look really cool" and think of how practical an idea is going to be. Not only are Link's arrows relatively weak compared to Snake's U-smash (which does what you're describing), but the timing on it would be way awkward. Opponents could easily move out of the way, shield, roll, wavedash, or do whatever; there are too many options against Link's non-DACUS-able Neutral Special being fired up into the air for Link to make any use of it through anything other than an Up Throw carry off the ceiling, if that. Link's arrows are simply too weak with a charge time too long to gain any sort of strong benefit from firing up and waiting for them to come back down to maybe hit an opponent and gain a small amount of damage and some hitstun. He can just fire them forward in the direction he's facing and get many more hits, much faster, and with better effect. He can already 'rain' arrows down on people if he's got a height advantage, anyway.

As for dropping bombs, it's more practical than being able to angle Link's arrows, and would have some more uses, but it's not anything he really needs. There's plenty that he can do with his bombs; take Bomb Punting, for instance. It's a little flashy, and a little weird to look at at first, but it's just one trick that Link has to give his bombs a new angle, range, and speed for an opponent to deal with. Link's got plenty of options for his attacks as it is. He doesn't need any drastic and sweeping changes to what's already a really solid in-the-middle character.

 

[monkeyx4]

Obviously I looked at it deeper than the "Wow that looks cool" If you go back an read what i said regarding his arrows I gave examples. Even though you don't think it has any uses I know what i could use that would benefit link. How is giving link more options bad?

Regarding his bombs that would help link a lot allowing him keep space especially facing sonic and falcon and other rush down characters who try to get link inside. Link is a character all about mix ups and having another way of putting bombs on the ground is not bad at all, its giving him different ways in different situations to do what you want.

There isn't nothing wrong with that. In fact that's not even changing him in a drastic way lol

 

[Hylian]

I think his arrows are quite useful and you guys need to just think more outside the box.

 

[Fortress]

I think his arrows are quite useful and you guys need to just think more outside the box.

That's what I'm saying, Link's arrows are fine. There's nothing he needs to have done with them. With the kind of improvements they've had, they do their job extremely well. There's nothing really outside-the-box I can think of when it comes to Link, and what could be improved on with him besides changes in hitboxes and attack speeds. He's a solid character who does what he needs to.

One thing that I would still enjoy seeing, are Smash 64-ish bombs that can be knocked around with the Boomerang. I remember that you used to be able to smack them around, and they wouldn't blow up in a hit. I feel like P:M bombs are a little fragile, and I'm not sure if there's anything that can really be done about that (or needs to have done), but being able to perform even more tricks with the bombs could be neat.

 

[Hylian]

You can throw your bomb at the back of your rang to bounce it around.