What changes do YOU want for ness?

[Bryonato]

Pretty sure that's false. SinisterB was showing me how he does magnet **** while I was in BC and he always holds B.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Sin.

 

[The_NZA]

If you're holding the Magnet, (as in, holding down B without being hit with any projectiles), you can't jump out. You have to let go of B and go into the release animation before you can jump, unlike the spacies' shines and other similar moves. It isn't a significant delay, it just makes the move feel unnecessarily sluggish in my opinion.

Lucas' PSI Magnet has a similar property, but due to the release hit bubble on his, it benefits him greatly.

I would hate this because it takes away from some of the split second stalling the Ness's magnet allows. If you can't DJC it as early as frame 9, then you cant Fulljump magnet to fast fall dair, or stall recoveries/techchases as well amongst other things. You lose some functionality, and any solution moving forward should try and create new functionality without losing too much.

 

[~tgm_Zeej]

Pretty sure that's false. SinisterB was showing me how he does magnet **** while I was in BC and he always holds B.

Correct me if I'm wrong, Sin.

Yeah, I'm talking out of my ass. I was making a stink about an issue that doesn't actually exist. >_>;

Apologies, I was apparently mistaken.

 

[twinx]

take out the absorb lag on psi magnet.
if fox can REFLECT projectiles and wave dash out,then why can't ness just absorb and do the same?

 

[GMaster171]

He can't. Fox suffers more lag than Ness does upon reflecting a projectile.

 

[DeadLastClown]

Make Ness' B more useful.

 

[DMG]

No

Omg plz no he does not need that

10bettertilts

 

[FreeGamer]

How about PSI sparks to give U-Tilt and F-Tilt more range? Maybe some new tool to make his neutral game not suck? What about letting him roll out of absorbing like he used to be able to?

 

[nessmaster1]

Ness dair to be changed to mine. I'll provide a link. Let me know what you kids think!! Basic edit to the dair, I think that what I have done brings the best of the P:M Diar and the best of the Brawl Dair together in one awesome move. Honestly this is the only thing with Ness that I would change with P:M. Let me know what you think.

 

[Bryonato]

i like your dair man but i really dont want it changed at this point. it's great as is.

 

[nessmaster1]

i like your dair man but i really dont want it changed at this point. it's great as is.

Like I said. It's the ONLY thing I would change. I didn't change it TOO much. Just 2 frames longer with a side hitbox at the last 2 frames.

 

[Shadic]

Hi @ nessmaster1 ,

I'm editing your post to yank out the link to your build. We don't encourage people making "balance edits" to Project M, especially since we're still in development, and it encourages people asking for changes instead of learning how to fully exploit what they already have.

Also, we generally aren't looking for people giving lists of what characters "need," and we're certainly more interested in players exploring what characters already have.

While "everything is subject to change," we'd like to encourage people to spend their efforts expanding their character's metagame instead of simply asking for changes.

 

[nessmaster1]

Hi @ nessmaster1 ,

I'm editing your post to yank out the link to your build. We don't encourage people making "balance edits" to Project M, especially since we're still in development, and it encourages people asking for changes instead of learning how to fully exploit what they already have.

Okay cool. Thanks I didn't know. I just wanted to post what I actually wanted to see changed and posting a link would be the best way of going about that.

 

[fren]

I dream nightly of the return of the two-footed n64 nooch. So relaxed.

 

[AsymptoteG]

So I had a thought today about a different Up+B, and I was curious what other people thought.

What if Ness used Teleport α for recovery instead of the more punishable/same as Lucas PK Thunder? I imagined it as working like Wolf's recovery, but with an ending "explosion" like Zelda's teleport with the same graphic as when Ness enters the stage at the beginning of a match. I just imagined this would keep Ness's moveset in line with Earthbound (using Teleport to move quickly in a line, but "exploding" when it's interrupted) and would differentiate him further from Lucas.

 

[Mowg]

It seems like Ness´s side-special lag is slower than Snake´s side-special, traink shooter lag.

the better thought is the question, is that deduction valid in this thread? Is that grounds for proposing such a change to Ness?

 

[Bryonato]

imo no because the two moves function completely differently on two completely different characters

 

[The_NZA]

I can't begin to describe how perfectly I feel Ness's kit works and how his issues do not at all fall in the weakness of his individual moves, but his ability to create opportunities to use them.

PKT is a perfect recovery. Powerful in the hands of a powerful player, but with still a strong commitment and plenty of coutnerplay. Two really smart players in a Ness v. X matchup have a lot of opportunities for the Ness to recover safely or get ruined by good responses (which is how a "good" recovery should be).

As far as pkfire goes, it needs to become less important as the "start" of all of ness's combo game, not more important. It already is ridiculously safe when done from the air. I personally hope it gets nerfed.

the PKfire v. Tranq gun comparisons aren't warranted because arguably pkfire gives you better followups than tranq, doesn't need to reload, it actually works on shield, activates on aerial opponents (and projectiles), and can be done at the akuma angle while retreating or DJCing.

 

[mimgrim]

I wouldn't mind seeing Magnet getting a spike along with a earlier hitbox or do 7-8% damage and become more of a combo starter/extender while keeping it's defensive capabilities with a earlier hitbox.

And maybe see Cross get reworked a bit as well to give it more utility?

I would also like to seem Usmash become more of a combo starter, even at higher %s.

Is that asking for too much? I mainly just want to see magnet gain a bit more offensive wise though.

 

[Chesstiger2612]

I would like to see
- improved tilts (slightly more range or even one rework or more kb/ less CCable)
- magnet one or two frames faster
- maybe an option to angle aerial pk fire slightly up and down (dunno but I think it could stop the easy avoiding by using mixup angles)
Maybe just one or two out of these. I feel he doesn't really need that much, just the last little shape to be able to fully compete

 

[Bryonato]

I wouldn't mind seeing Magnet getting a spike along with a earlier hitbox or do 7-8% damage and become more of a combo starter/extender while keeping it's defensive capabilities with a earlier hitbox.

And maybe see Cross get reworked a bit as well to give it more utility?

I would also like to seem Usmash become more of a combo starter, even at higher %s.

Is that asking for too much? I mainly just want to see magnet gain a bit more offensive wise though.

Mag getting a spike? pls no. I'm all for it doing more dmg though. That's a must I think.

**FLASH doesn't need a rework. Perfect as is imo.

USmash is also in a good place.

I would like to see
- improved tilts (slightly more range or even one rework or more kb/ less CCable)
- magnet one or two frames faster
- maybe an option to angle aerial pk fire slightly up and down (dunno but I think it could stop the easy avoiding by using mixup angles)
Maybe just one or two out of these. I feel he doesn't really need that much, just the last little shape to be able to fully compete

I agree with the second one and that's about it, though I would like to see ftilt be not ****ing awful

 

[Chesstiger2612]

Yeah, like I said, one or two of those are enough. I'm just not exactly a Ness main so I gave more suggestions, in the case some of them are horrible :D

 

[mimgrim]

Mag getting a spike? pls no. I'm all for it doing more dmg though. That's a must I think.

The spike part was mostly in joke. I just think it would be hysterical but I know it would also be ridicuoul. However it would be the latter part I want more, more % faster hitbox, and be able to work better with combos (as both a starter and extender).

**FLASH doesn't need a rework. Perfect as is imo.

It sounds like he yells "PK CROSS!" to me. So that's what I cal it. Despite it's legit name being Flash.

"Rework" was a poor choice of words. It would have been more accurate for me to say utility. To me it seems like there is never really a reason to use it and is out classed by other moves in what it would be used for (killing and edge guarding). And I dislike it when characters have useless moves that are always outclassed, and when the have awesome moves that always outclass their other moves so I wouldn't be again Fire receiving a nerf. I could be, and probably am, wrong about Cross' utility in which case I am willing to listen about it's utility where it isn't out classed by other moves.

USmash is also in a good place.

It is. But I think it could be in a eve better place. By making it more of a combo starter, it would still remain a good edge guard tool as well simply due to it's nature.

 

[The_NZA]

The spike part was mostly in joke. I just think it would be hysterical but I know it would also be ridicuoul. However it would be the latter part I want more, more % faster hitbox, and be able to work better with combos (as both a starter and extender).



It sounds like he yells "PK CROSS!" to me. So that's what I cal it. Despite it's legit name being Flash.

"Rework" was a poor choice of words. It would have been more accurate for me to say utility. To me it seems like there is never really a reason to use it and is out classed by other moves in what it would be used for (killing and edge guarding). And I dislike it when characters have useless moves that are always outclassed, and when the have awesome moves that always outclass their other moves so I wouldn't be again Fire receiving a nerf. I could be, and probably am, wrong about Cross' utility in which case I am willing to listen about it's utility where it isn't out classed by other moves.



It is. But I think it could be in a eve better place. By making it more of a combo starter, it would still remain a good edge guard tool as well simply due to it's nature.

It's really good as a two parted edgeguard. Essentially, it forces the opponent to use their jump early if you send out a pk flash lightening fast off stage after hitting them. Then, you've essentailly reduced their stage options giving you a more straightforward edge guard.

 

[mimgrim]

It's really good as a two parted edgeguard. Essentially, it forces the opponent to use their jump early if you send out a pk flash lightening fast off stage after hitting them. Then, you've essentailly reduced their stage options giving you a more straightforward edge guard.

That's interesting. But it is still very limited. And I still think it could use more utility in one way or another.

 

[The_NZA]

That's interesting. But it is still very limited. And I still think it could use more utility in one way or another.

Well, its also a hard read anti air (see Awestin v. M2k), a great edge guard against recoveries that stall the user (Ike/Luigi/Dins firing Zelda/ a lot of recoveries) and it can end aerial combos. I'd say that's a lot of utility for a special move.

 

[AsymptoteG]

PKT is a perfect recovery. Powerful in the hands of a powerful player, but with still a strong commitment and plenty of coutnerplay. Two really smart players in a Ness v. X matchup have a lot of opportunities for the Ness to recover safely or get ruined by good responses (which is how a "good" recovery should be).

I don't believe that PKT is in any way a bad recovery, nor that Lucas's version works the same as Ness's, it was more of a speculation about an alternate recovery that could have been and what people would have thought.

 

[G13_Flux]

the only issues i see with PKT is that ness can sometimes get screwed if something hits the projectile, leaving him helpless. but the fact that it has so much distance, a pretty good hitbox, great mobility after it ends, and like, 0 lag on landing makes it still very effective, and not exactly a game changing weakness.

IMO, if ness was to recieve any change, it definitely needs to be something to vary his options in neutral. hes working on PK fire and fair atm, up from just fair in melee. dash attack destroys CCers but its totally punishable if you shield. reworking ftilt could help him, and so could slightly altering magnet. if it were easier to get in on an opponent with magnet, it would make for a very unique method of shield pressure, since you can go right from an aerial magnet > DJC.

literally, the only reason that i think lucas is so much better than ness is because lucas is much faster and has more options in neutral. if pk fire recieved a slight nerf (maybe less duration or damage), and ness gained buffs to something else to compromise, i think the fact that he gained another option would significantly outweigh the nerf to pk fire.

regardless, even without changing him, i do believe that ness has all the tools he needs to compete now for certain. in order to compete more heavily with the higher tiers though, he needs a more varied approach scheme.

 

[Sour Supreme]

So I had a thought today about a different Up+B, and I was curious what other people thought.

What if Ness used Teleport α for recovery instead of the more punishable/same as Lucas PK Thunder? I imagined it as working like Wolf's recovery, but with an ending "explosion" like Zelda's teleport with the same graphic as when Ness enters the stage at the beginning of a match. I just imagined this would keep Ness's moveset in line with Earthbound (using Teleport to move quickly in a line, but "exploding" when it's interrupted) and would differentiate him further from Lucas.

View attachment 12729

It's an interesting concept.

But I feel like Ness's entry animation would result in a lot of time loss, unless you could cancel out of it, or it was generally sped up.

I'm opposed to the idea because PK Thunder is a great tool for me as a Ness Main. Sure at times it isn't the ideal recovery, but on several occasions it's been the push I've needed to KO an opponent offstage.

IMO other than some movement buffs Ness is brilliant. The PMBR did a great job harnessing his PSI potential.

 

[SinisterB]

i think teleport would be cool if it was an option for a brief pair of frames during the last little bit of PKT2. Like hold A frame X-X to go into 'port or leave it untouched for a regular PKT2. From a game design standpoint as a whole i always thought that would be a neat addition, and maybe a cool little mix up. Otherwise i kind of like where PKT2 sits right now, maybe chop off a negligible amount of it's entire distance (bite me).

i also really want Melee dash attack

 

[Bryonato]

Otherwise i kind of like where PKT2 sits right now, maybe chop off a negligible amount of it's entire distance

BOO THIS MAN!
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[mimgrim]

I think you were suppose to bit him, not boo him.

But if you insist on him getting booed.

.........

What if jab became a bit faster?

 

[SinisterB]

-2slow

 

[Bryonato]

BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[The_NZA]

PKT2 is a very fair projectile with a ton of punishability, as I learned last night from getting repeatedly whacked by Elen and KDJ. I am convinced that most characters have a response to it.

 

[kaizo13]

as a Ness player, some of the changes i would like to see are...

- a less over-centralized pk fire
- slightly more horizontal range on u-tilt and f-tilt
- a faster magnet hitbox (lucas speed)

 

[mimgrim]

If Fire were to become less over centralized then Ness would need to have some moves made better for approaching/neutral game to compensate, that would be for the better actually as he would be given more options/tools which is a good thing.

EDIT - I hate my typos. .-.

 

[thesage]

I think Ness's down taunt should have a hitbox so it can combo with pk fire pillar and look very pretty.

 

[Bryonato]

YES PLEASE

 

[mimgrim]

I often see Ftilt get mentioned as needing to be made better/reworked.

What if it became a 3rd yo-yo attack? If possible anyway. The idea I have is that you can angle it and he slings out the yo-yo fast and pulls it beck in fast with more range then his current Ftilt. Maybe it could even be to where if the attack button is out he will hold the yo-yo in place making it another shield eater as well.

Too much?