What are the most iconic moves for current characters that are being disregarded by Smash?

[Quillion]

Correct me if I'm wrong, because I'm not a Soinc fan, but is it ever something he actively summons under his own power, or is it just a recurring stage element they implemented as his recovery because there were no other immediately obvious attacks?

Yes, it's a recurring stage element that he has no power to summon. No, there's nothing wrong with that. Springs are just as canon to Sonic as any other potential recovery option.

 

[Jotari]

Yes, it's a recurring stage element that he has no power to summon. No, there's nothing wrong with that. Springs are just as canon to Sonic as any other potential recovery option.

Well I wouldn't say just as canon if he never generate them himself. That being said, I was just addressing the notion you made that he has no other potential recovery moves. I'm fine with the spring, it works mechanically well as a move in Smash Bros even if never uses them that way in Sonic's own games.

 

[Quillion]

Well I wouldn't say just as canon if he never generate them himself. That being said, I was just addressing the notion you made that he has no other potential recovery moves. I'm fine with the spring, it works mechanically well as a move in Smash Bros even if never uses them that way in Sonic's own games.

The argument reminds me of all the times I argue that Ganondorf does hand-to-hand moves in cutscenes, yet people still complain they're somehow less canon because they're not done in boss fights.

There is no spectrum of canon. If Ganondorf or Sonic does it on-screen (and sometimes off), it's canon, end of story.

(Yes, I know he does mix in kicks and elbow strikes into his weapon-wielding boss fights; that's besides the point)

 

[Jotari]

The argument reminds me of all the times I argue that Ganondorf does hand-to-hand moves in cutscenes, yet people still complain they're somehow less canon because they're not done in boss fights.

There is no spectrum of canon. If Ganondorf or Sonic does it on-screen (and sometimes off), it's canon, end of story.

(Yes, I know he does mix in kicks and elbow strikes into his weapon-wielding boss fights; that's besides the point)

But Sonic never does generate springs himself. I think there is a very clear spcetrum between how attacks function in their own game and in Smash. It's not a bad thing to be more distant on the spectrum, but it's still very much a thing. Din's Fire in Smash works nowhere near like it does in Ocarina of Time while Charizard's flamethrower works pretty much exactly like its seen in Pokemon. It's not good or bad either way, but it is a thing.

 

[fogbadge]

The argument reminds me of all the times I argue that Ganondorf does hand-to-hand moves in cutscenes, yet people still complain they're somehow less canon because they're not done in boss fights.

people say that even though in his first ever boss fight as ganondorf he starts of by punching the floor?

 

[Quillion]

people say that even though in his first ever boss fight as ganondorf he starts of by punching the floor?

They always make the excuse that it's not a direct punch.

 

[fogbadge]

They always make the excuse that it's not a direct punch.

well they’re definitely stretching

 

[Lenidem]

well they’re definitely stretching

Ganondorf can punch, yes. Nobody ever said it was not the case. Pretending it's his more recognizable, "iconic" move, whatever that means, that is the real stretch.

 

[fogbadge]

Ganondorf can punch, yes. Nobody ever said it was not the case. Pretending it's his more recognizable, "iconic" move, whatever that means, that is the real stretch.

i wouldnt say it was his most iconic. i just dont get why anyone would sayd he cant

 

[Lenidem]

i wouldnt say it was his most iconic. i just dont get why anyone would sayd he cant

I doubt anyone ever did.

 

[fogbadge]

I doubt anyone ever did.

well people have said dafter things

 

[Quillion]

Ganondorf can punch, yes. Nobody ever said it was not the case. Pretending it's his more recognizable, "iconic" move, whatever that means, that is the real stretch.

Here's the thing: Both Ganondorf and Ganon fight very differently in nearly all of their appearances. In the 3D games alone he goes from floating mage with super strength, to beast with two giant swords, to acrobatic samurai with two small swords, to possessing Zelda with both his and her powers, to a giant quadrupedal boar, to a horse rider summoning phantoms, to a straight longsword fencer, to a heavily armed cyborg, to an even bigger quadrupedal boar.

With all of these different portrayals, can you really say that Ganon or Ganondorf has an "iconic" move? Given his floor punch in OoT, kick in WW, and kick and elbow strike in TP (and these are just the boss fight moves), his brawling in Smash quantifiably encompasses his disparate portrayals better than any single weapon or magic projectile.

 

[Lenidem]

Here's the thing: Both Ganondorf and Ganon fight very differently in nearly all of their appearances. In the 3D games alone he goes from floating mage with super strength, to beast with two giant swords, to acrobatic samurai with two small swords, to possessing Zelda with both his and her powers, to a giant quadrupedal boar, to a horse rider summoning phantoms, to a straight longsword fencer, to a heavily armed cyborg, to an even bigger quadrupedal boar.

With all of these different portrayals, can you really say that Ganon or Ganondorf has an "iconic" move? Given his floor punch in OoT, kick in WW, and kick and elbow strike in TP (and these are just the boss fight moves), his brawling in Smash quantifiably encompasses his disparate portrayals better than any single weapon or magic projectile.

Yes. In all those games and more, he or a version of him uses the Dead Man Volley. How you can pretend it's not iconic is beyond me.

Besides, it's not like this single special move would prevent him from punching or kicking. There is the normal and Smash attacks for that.

 

[Jotari]

This sounds like a conversation that's happened before.

 

[Quillion]

This sounds like a conversation that's happened before.

Apparently it's going to keep going until Ganondorf gets that damned ball.

Yes. In all those games and more, he or a version of him uses the Dead Man Volley. How you can pretend it's not iconic is beyond me.

Besides, it's not like this single special move would prevent him from punching or kicking. There is the normal and Smash attacks for that.

You keep bringing the Dead Man's Volley up, so let's see if Ganon AND Ganondorf unambiguously uses it enough to be an iconic move. For the sake of the argument, we can discount any time when it's Phantom Ganon, an imitation of Ganon, or Ganon being possessed.

• Agahnim, who is Ganon's alter-ego (bunshin in the Japanese version) is the originator of the technique in ALttP.
• Ganondorf himself uses it in OoT. No frills like disguising himself like Agahnim or possessing Zelda here.
• Ganon uses it while possessing Zelda's empty body in TP. It's ambiguous whether Ganon is using his power or Zelda's power to do so, though.

Okay, so if we count Ganon being in disguise or possessing someone else, yes, that's three times, and I subscribe to the idea that three's a pattern, so I suppose you can count it as an iconic move for Ganondorf.

That said, that's just ONE projectile. One move can hardly define a whole character. Especially when we're talking about a character whose abilities are widely divergent with every appearance:

Here's the thing: Both Ganondorf and Ganon fight very differently in nearly all of their appearances. In the 3D games alone he goes from floating mage with super strength, to beast with two giant swords, to acrobatic samurai with two small swords, to possessing Zelda with both his and her powers, to a giant quadrupedal boar, to a horse rider summoning phantoms, to a straight longsword fencer, to a heavily armed cyborg, to an even bigger quadrupedal boar.

Besides, a lot of characters, especially the 64-Brawl heavies, don't have their iconic projectiles, and no one raises a stink about them:

• : Doesn't throw barrels.
• : While he has his Fire Breath, it's effectively a rapid jab instead of the long-range fireball he uses more often.
• : LOST her Light Arrow after Smash 4 without it so much as being reworked as a projectile Smash or a special.
• : Doesn't have his ranged explosion granted by the Binding Blade.
• : Doesn't have his Ragnell beam.

As seen by these examples, sometimes character balance and individuality have to trump canonicity.

 

[Lenidem]

For the sake of the argument, we can discount any time when it's Phantom Ganon, an imitation of Ganon, or Ganon being possessed.

"For the sake of me being right, this argument will have to meet my own terms." Sorry, but it's clear to me that the ghost/fantoms are made by Ganon himself with his own power, so the Dead Man Volley comes directly from him. And even if it wasn't the case, at the very least, the connexion between the move and the idea of Ganondorf is pretty obvious. Also, Yuga possess Ganon for the sole reason that he wants access to his power. So he needs Ganon's body to perform it.

• Ganon uses it while possessing Zelda's empty body in TP. It's ambiguous whether Ganon is using his power or Zelda's power to do so, though.

Even if he was using Zelda's power (which is not even inted at), it is still Ganondorf choosing to do it.

Okay, so if we count Ganon being in disguise or possessing someone else, yes, that's three times, and I subscribe to the idea that three's a pattern, so I suppose you can count it as an iconic move for Ganondorf.

Thank you for your intellectual honesty.

That said, that's just ONE projectile. One move can hardly define a whole character. Especially when we're talking about a character whose abilities are widely divergent with every appearance:

When it's the most iconic move said character has, it does matter. Especially when nine tenth of his moveset is just made up and copied from another character with whom there is zero connexion.

As seen by these examples, sometimes character balance and individuality have to trump canonicity.

The fact that it can be like that doesn't prove that it has to be done like that. Besides, DK, Bowser and Zelda still have several memorable, "iconic" canon moves. (I don't play Fire Emblem, so I can't say for the two others.)

This sounds like a conversation that's happened before.

Yeah, sorry about that.

 

[Jotari]

I'm pretty sure I've said my piece already, but since it's popped up again I guess it bodes saying since it's a little off the dichotomy. What makes Dead Man's Volley iconic? As said already, Bowser and other characters lack their projectiles, yet no one is crying for Fire Shot to come back and replace Fire Breath. Because it's not just the mere fact that Ganondorf has a projectile, Dead Man's Volley isn't a simple dark/electrical ball attack, it's an attack you deflect back at Ganon/dorf (/Zelda/Agahanim/Phantom Ganon/Cubus Sisters/Blue Stalfos etc). Before Phantom Hour Glass gave a name to the idea, people called the attack tennis. So with that in mind, what I think is far more important to the idea of Ganondorf is not that he can use projectiles, but that he has the ability to deflect them. And aside from this just being a crucial aspect of Dead Man's Volley, having a deflector would just generally really help Ganondorf with the moveset he currently has, as he does get gimped somewhat easily by enemy projectiles.

 

[Thanos6]

As said already, Bowser and other characters lack their projectiles, yet no one is crying for Fire Shot to come back and replace Fire Breath.

I am, actually. In Smash 4, the instant I unlocked Fire Shot I started using it and never looked back, and was very disappointed it wasn't around in Ultimate.

 

[Quillion]

What makes Dead Man's Volley iconic?

Like I said, Ganon unambiguously uses it by his own choice in three appearances, and this discounts phantoms, imitations of Ganon, and that time when Ganon was possessed. Three's enough to make a pattern.

yet no one is crying for Fire Shot to come back and replace Fire Breath.

I am, actually. In Smash 4, the instant I unlocked Fire Shot I started using it and never looked back, and was very disappointed it wasn't around in Ultimate.

Just wondering, would either of you be fine with a hypothetical change where if you hold B, it's the stream of fire as is, but if you tap B, it becomes a long range fireball? It would add an option without taking anything away.

 

[Lenidem]

I'm pretty sure I've said my piece already, but since it's popped up again I guess it bodes saying since it's a little off the dichotomy. What makes Dead Man's Volley iconic? As said already, Bowser and other characters lack their projectiles, yet no one is crying for Fire Shot to come back and replace Fire Breath. Because it's not just the mere fact that Ganondorf has a projectile, Dead Man's Volley isn't a simple dark/electrical ball attack, it's an attack you deflect back at Ganon/dorf (/Zelda/Agahanim/Phantom Ganon/Cubus Sisters/Blue Stalfos etc). Before Phantom Hour Glass gave a name to the idea, people called the attack tennis. So with that in mind, what I think is far more important to the idea of Ganondorf is not that he can use projectiles, but that he has the ability to deflect them. And aside from this just being a crucial aspect of Dead Man's Volley, having a deflector would just generally really help Ganondorf with the moveset he currently has, as he does get gimped somewhat easily by enemy projectiles.

Like Quillion said, this attack is Ganon's most recurring move. And like I said a while ago, it can be deflect by any sword, empty bottles, or bare hands. The ball itself is deflectable, Ganondorf doesn't have a deflecting ability, as he doesn't send back arrows, for instance.

 

[Thanos6]

Just wondering, would either of you be fine with a hypothetical change where if you hold B, it's the stream of fire as is, but if you tap B, it becomes a long range fireball?

I'd be fine with that. As long as his NES-era fireballs are represented in some fashion.

 

[Jotari]

I am, actually. In Smash 4, the instant I unlocked Fire Shot I started using it and never looked back, and was very disappointed it wasn't around in Ultimate.

There's always one XD

Like Quillion said, this attack is Ganon's most recurring move. And like I said a while ago, it can be deflect by any sword, empty bottles, or bare hands. The ball itself is deflectable, Ganondorf doesn't have a deflecting ability, as he doesn't send back arrows, for instance.

Well arrows are just plain ineffective against him (unless it's light arrows after he's already been stunned by his own attack in Ocarina of Time). But I doubt even the most hard core of Cannon Ganon enthustasts would suggest giving him straight up immunity to projectiles.

Just wondering, would either of you be fine with a hypothetical change where if you hold B, it's the stream of fire as is, but if you tap B, it becomes a long range fireball? It would add an option without taking anything away.

I see no reason to object to such a change. More options, generally speaking, aren't a bad thing. I have a similar idea for my Ganondorf reworked moveset that would implement SSB4's Flame Wave into Flame Choke in the same manner.

 

[Quillion]

Well arrows are just plain ineffective against him (unless it's light arrows after he's already been stunned by his own attack in Ocarina of Time). But I doubt even the most hard core of Cannon Ganon enthustasts would suggest giving him straight up immunity to projectiles.

I'm mostly on your side Jotari , but that's a horrible argument and you know it. We've had smaller gimmicks that affect the way characters are damaged by certain attacks, and it was considered a bad idea. I'm talking about the Pokémon Trainer in Brawl, of course; the type effectiveness gimmick was universally hated to the point that it was cut when the Trainer returned proper in Ultimate.

Besides, if all characters took damage the way they did in their games of origin, we'd have major mechanical conflict. Bowser would be immune to anything but fire projectiles. Mario would die in two hits. Sonic would be unkillable as long as he grabs one ring. K. Rool would be vulnerable only when his crown is off.

All of that said, I'm all for having Ganondorf share Bowser and Kazuya's passive armor gimmick. He of all people deserves the ability to wade through wimpy attacks more than either of them.

I see no reason to object to such a change. More options, generally speaking, aren't a bad thing. I have a similar idea for my Ganondorf reworked moveset that would implement SSB4's Flame Wave into Flame Choke in the same manner.

I would like to see a "tap" variant of Warlock Punch as well. By holding down B, it's Warlock Punch, but by tapping B, it becomes a quick, open-handed backhand that can reflect projectiles and set up into other moves.

I also would like to see the same for Falcon Punch, especially since the move is nigh-useless as is. Except the "weak" Falcon Punch wouldn't reflect projectiles but instead help with recovery and start combos like Jigglypuff's Pound.

 

[uptonogood]

Power Beam. ‘Nuff said. Melee Counter would also be an obvious choice but it’s still a relatively new concept.

 

[Quillion]

Power Beam. ‘Nuff said. Melee Counter would also be an obvious choice but it’s still a relatively new concept.

Are you talking about the "Short Beam" from Metroid 1 and Zero Mission? I'm in favor of switching out a few/some of her normals with "Short Beam" shots.

Melee Counter would honestly be best utilized as a parry animation IMO.

 

[uptonogood]

Are you talking about the "Short Beam" from Metroid 1 and Zero Mission? I'm in favor of switching out a few/some of her normals with "Short Beam" shots.

Melee Counter would honestly be best utilized as a parry animation IMO.

I originally had that idea of making a lot of her neutral attacks as the power beam but dropped it in favor of just adding it to her neutral special instead. I think the melee counter would work best as an up tilt.

 

[Quillion]

I originally had that idea of making a lot of her neutral attacks as the power beam but dropped it in favor of just adding it to her neutral special instead. I think the melee counter would work best as an up tilt.

How would the Power Beam work as a neutral special? The Charge Beam is already a complete upgrade to it.

Are you thinking of changing it so that throwing out an uncharged neutral-B allows you to rapid fire it?

 

[uptonogood]

How would the Power Beam work as a neutral special? The Charge Beam is already a complete upgrade to it.

Are you thinking of changing it so that throwing out an uncharged neutral-B allows you to rapid fire it?

Yep. Rapidly press B and you fire the power beam and press and hold and you start charging. That way, it’s identical to how it works in literally every Metroid game.

 

[Quillion]

Yep. Rapidly press B and you fire the power beam and press and hold and you start charging. That way, it’s identical to how it works in literally every Metroid game.

I guess we can add that to the list of moves that should have "tap" and "hold" variations like Bowser's Fire Breath, Falcon's Falcon Punch, and Ganondorf's Warlock Punch.

I would expect that Samus's rapid-fire Power Beam would be like Fox's flinchless Blaster from Melee onward.

 

[uptonogood]

I guess we can add that to the list of moves that should have "tap" and "hold" variations like Bowser's Fire Breath, Falcon's Falcon Punch, and Ganondorf's Warlock Punch.

I would expect that Samus's rapid-fire Power Beam would be like Fox's flinchless Blaster from Melee onward.

Exactly what I had in mind.

what do you mean when you talk about variations for falcon and dorfs punches?

 

[Quillion]

Exactly what I had in mind.

what do you mean when you talk about variations for falcon and dorfs punches?

I would like to see a "tap" variant of Warlock Punch as well. By holding down B, it's Warlock Punch, but by tapping B, it becomes a quick, open-handed backhand that can reflect projectiles and set up into other moves.

I also would like to see the same for Falcon Punch, especially since the move is nigh-useless as is. Except the "weak" Falcon Punch wouldn't reflect projectiles but instead help with recovery and start combos like Jigglypuff's Pound.

 

[uptonogood]

That would be pretty neat, especially the one for Dorf. Here’s a complete moveset I made for Samus if you’re interested:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17GkyxbVDqYrjBDo28Mqj38MeZtAqoCWaLE8Q7oBqvLY/edit

 

[Quillion]

That would be pretty neat, especially the one for Dorf. Here’s a complete moveset I made for Samus if you’re interested:
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/17GkyxbVDqYrjBDo28Mqj38MeZtAqoCWaLE8Q7oBqvLY/edit

It is pretty interesting NGL. I have two issues with it though:

• It still seems really weird to me to make her Melee Counters be normals with countering/rebound-inducing properties.
• Beam swapping via Smash Attacks seems rather user-unfriendly. Maybe should they expand the Shield-B to be a universal status change option, it could be selected in a wheel like Shulk's Monado Arts.

 

[uptonogood]

It is pretty interesting NGL. I have two issues with it though:

• It still seems really weird to me to make her Melee Counters be normals with countering/rebound-inducing properties.
• Beam swapping via Smash Attacks seems rather user-unfriendly. Maybe should they expand the Shield-B to be a universal status change option, it could be selected in a wheel like Shulk's Monado Arts.

They already function extremely similarly to how the arts work. The only thing that’s different is that you have to take the risk of being attacked if you want to be able to use a beam for a longer period. It seems completely fair to me. And the melee counter wouldn’t function like other counters, that’s why it’s not replacing her down special.

 

[Jotari]

I'm mostly on your side Jotari , but that's a horrible argument and you know it. We've had smaller gimmicks that affect the way characters are damaged by certain attacks, and it was considered a bad idea. I'm talking about the Pokémon Trainer in Brawl, of course; the type effectiveness gimmick was universally hated to the point that it was cut when the Trainer returned proper in Ultimate.

Besides, if all characters took damage the way they did in their games of origin, we'd have major mechanical conflict. Bowser would be immune to anything but fire projectiles. Mario would die in two hits. Sonic would be unkillable as long as he grabs one ring. K. Rool would be vulnerable only when his crown is off.

Of course it's a terrible argument. That's my point. No none would ever seriously suggest it. I said it to demonstrate the notion that Ganondorf doesn't deserve to have a reflector because he never reflects arrows is also a silly idea. As he does quite visibly reflect projectiles. Not every projectile in the game, as the fights revolve around a singular projectile, but the reflection is still the key component of the battle, and not the mere existence of a projectile.

 

[Lenidem]

Of course it's a terrible argument. That's my point. No none would ever seriously suggest it. I said it to demonstrate the notion that Ganondorf doesn't deserve to have a reflector because he never reflects arrows is also a silly idea. As he does quite visibly reflect projectiles. Not every projectile in the game, as the fights revolve around a singular projectile, but the reflection is still the key component of the battle, and not the mere existence of a projectile.

By your logic, based on this fight, Link should also have a reflector... But the only projectile he reflects with his sword, in all the games, is this one ball, which is also the only projectile Ganondorf reflects. I don't think that's a coincidence. So the ball should be reflectable.

 

[Quillion]

They already function extremely similarly to how the arts work. The only thing that’s different is that you have to take the risk of being attacked if you want to be able to use a beam for a longer period. It seems completely fair to me. And the melee counter wouldn’t function like other counters, that’s why it’s not replacing her down special.

I know the Melee Counter shouldn't replace any special, but I'm just not keen on giving a normal a special property like that.

Of course it's a terrible argument. That's my point. No none would ever seriously suggest it. I said it to demonstrate the notion that Ganondorf doesn't deserve to have a reflector because he never reflects arrows is also a silly idea. As he does quite visibly reflect projectiles. Not every projectile in the game, as the fights revolve around a singular projectile, but the reflection is still the key component of the battle, and not the mere existence of a projectile.

Yes, it would be horrible to suggest an addition that would create mechanical conflict. But you're also engaging in slippery slope by suggesting that they should want to change the way a character takes damage just because they want more canonical moves. That's the horrible argument that I'm talking about.

When I call out the "Canondorf" crowd for hypocrisy I always focus on abilities that characters actively use as opposed to passive damage resistances and immunities that would create mechanical conflict.

 

[uptonogood]

I know the Melee Counter shouldn't replace any special, but I'm just not keen on giving a normal a special property like that.



Yes, it would be horrible to suggest an addition that would create mechanical conflict. But you're also engaging in slippery slope by suggesting that they should want to change the way a character takes damage just because they want more canonical moves. That's the horrible argument that I'm talking about.

When I call out the "Canondorf" crowd for hypocrisy I always focus on abilities that characters actively use as opposed to passive damage resistances and immunities that would create mechanical conflict.

Read the google slide again. It doesn’t function like normal counters. Min Mins up tilt already reflects projectiles like Mario’s cape or Fox Shine so it’s not any different.

 

[Jotari]

By your logic, based on this fight, Link should also have a reflector... But the only projectile he reflects with his sword, in all the games, is this one ball, which is also the only projectile Ganondorf reflects. I don't think that's a coincidence. So the ball should be reflectable.

You're missing my point. I'm saying that the facet of the battle is that it is reflected, not that it's a mere projectile. Could we give Link a reflector on his sword? Well yeah, there is some reason to, but it's a really minor part of what Link does overall as a character while, as people who want it argue, it is a major part of Ganondorf's battles.

I know the Melee Counter shouldn't replace any special, but I'm just not keen on giving a normal a special property like that.



Yes, it would be horrible to suggest an addition that would create mechanical conflict. But you're also engaging in slippery slope by suggesting that they should want to change the way a character takes damage just because they want more canonical moves. That's the horrible argument that I'm talking about.

When I call out the "Canondorf" crowd for hypocrisy I always focus on abilities that characters actively use as opposed to passive damage resistances and immunities that would create mechanical conflict.

I'm not saying Ganondorf should be immune to arrows. I'm saying that dismissing the fact that he can reflect Dead Man's Volley (and that htis is precisely what makes it Dead Man's Volley and not a generic projectile) on the basis that he doesn't reflect anything else is silly. Because Zelda isn't a projectile based game. There's no expectation for him to be able to reflect arrows or the boomerang, because the whole point of the battle is to be able to reflect his own attack back at him. Basically I'm saying "Ganondorf can reflect projectiles in his own game" "Yes, but he can't reflect arrows" "Sure, but that's irrelevant. He still has the ability to reflect projectiles."

 

[Lenidem]

You're missing my point. I'm saying that the facet of the battle is that it is reflected, not that it's a mere projectile. Could we give Link a reflector on his sword? Well yeah, there is some reason to, but it's a really minor part of what Link does overall as a character while, as people who want it argue, it is a major part of Ganondorf's battles.

I'm not saying Ganondorf should be immune to arrows. I'm saying that dismissing the fact that he can reflect Dead Man's Volley (and that htis is precisely what makes it Dead Man's Volley and not a generic projectile) on the basis that he doesn't reflect anything else is silly. Because Zelda isn't a projectile based game. There's no expectation for him to be able to reflect arrows or the boomerang, because the whole point of the battle is to be able to reflect his own attack back at him. Basically I'm saying "Ganondorf can reflect projectiles in his own game" "Yes, but he can't reflect arrows" "Sure, but that's irrelevant. He still has the ability to reflect projectiles."

No. He has the ability to reflect only one projectile and ignores all the others. Pretending he can reflect anything else is silly. The fact that a mere empty bottle can reflect it too is proof that it's not inherent to Ganondorf. You want to translate the spirit of the battle in Smash ? Give Dead Man Volley a "can be reflected" property similar to Dedede's side-b.