What are falco players view on "out of shield" stuff?

[Michael_BluFalco]

Different attacks have different duration of lag so it makes it ridiculously hard to master this useful skill but it is so useful when being pressured by falco/falcon players. I tend to screw up a lot trying to jump out during the attack lag on my shield. I am a defensive falco and I really want to build on this technique. Any ideas how?

 

[Falcinho]

You can practice the timing by buffering jumps out of shield first (shield + c-stick up)
When you get used to it it probably is better to switch to X/Y or the control stick

 

[TresChikon]

Falcon can't really pressure, but against Falco's pillaring (or anything that touches your shield), you can shine OoS which seriously can clip away his options and turn his pressure into your own combo.

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

You can practice the timing by buffering jumps out of shield first (shield + c-stick up)
When you get used to it it probably is better to switch to X/Y or the control stick

If I use the c stick would that make me jump after the attack on my shield is done or instantly jump out during the first few frames of an opponents attack on my shield?

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

If I use the c stick would that make me jump after the attack on my shield is done or instantly jump out during the first few frames of an opponents attack on my shield?

It will buffer a jump on the first frame you are out of lag. Learn all his out of shield options.

Shine
Upsmash
Wavedash

All are situational but awesome and very useful.

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

It will buffer a jump on the first frame you are out of lag. Learn all his out of shield options.

Shine
Upsmash
Wavedash

All are situational but awesome and very useful.

Thanks polarmanbear, getting shield pressured by other falcos is unbearable. Maybe with these this technique I can reduce the falco pressure.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

Just learn the shield stun for various moves. Its just like learning hitstun from moves (knowing when you can jump out of a combo, for example). Nobody can tell you the timing, just go play and learn. Learn to WD OoS or Shine OoS and do it every time a move hits. You'll get the shieldstun timing down pretty fast.

 

[Tirno]

I had trouble with OoS techniques (not that I'm perfect at them now, haha), but then I realized I already knew shield stun timing for most moves instinctively because I knew when to try and shield grab. So try making the connection in your mind that when you should press A to grab OoS is the same time you should start jumping to shine/usmash/falcon punch/etc. OoS.

Of course, maybe the buffer jump stuff will work for you. Personally, my reaction times are sort of bad, so I like controlling the jump.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

Thanks polarmanbear...

Haha. It's a "shine bear."

 

[JPOBS]

Wavedash OoS is pretty much the best thing since forever.

Shine of of sheild is a good combo breaker but falco's shine has garbage range so unless your opponent miss spaces badly or is right up in your grill with pressure then it will liekly miss. Its not that bad if it misses though.

wavedashing out on the other hand is probably the best defensive option you could ever learn.

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

Wavedash OoS sounds amazing but it seems awkward to perform. I hold R to shield(I use R for everything) but also can use L and analog to wavedash(trained as a hybrid) so to wavedash out of that I would use the L to do it? I would probably mess up if I wavedash out with the same button.

 

[trahhSTEEZY]

what's the best option after doing a WD OOS? and how exactly do you WD oos?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

I WD with R and shield with L. Its really easy to WD OoS, and everyone i've taught it to finds it easier to do with different buttons.

WD OoS gets you in favorable position. If they are in lag, punish. If they are going to hit you if you don't defend yourself, nair/bair to beat their attack. Else, you're probably best off lasering.

 

[`DNS`]

shine OoS -> waveland on platform

 

[Mogwai]

you just have to find someone who likes to attack your shield to get a feel for timings to jump OoS (THANKS JONA!!!!!!!!!) Eventually, you'll feel comfotable just feeling the timings and you'll be able to do **** OoS no problem. Also, practicing without shieldstun can be helpful for mastering the finger movements of WD, Shine, usmash and SHL OoS.

 

[precision]

i get ***** when i shl out of shield. for me it is not a good option.

 

[Mogwai]

it's only useful vs. projectiles or things that your opponent will shield after that knock you out of grab range.

 

[JPOBS]

Wavedash OoS sounds amazing but it seems awkward to perform. I hold R to shield(I use R for everything) but also can use L and analog to wavedash(trained as a hybrid) so to wavedash out of that I would use the L to do it? I would probably mess up if I wavedash out with the same button.

I use the same button for eerything. I shield with l and just wavedash out by letting l go, then doing a regular wavedash.

it seems awkward at first but you get used to it. But learning how to do different buttons is technically easier.

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

I use the same button for eerything. I shield with l and just wavedash out by letting l go, then doing a regular wavedash.

it seems awkward at first but you get used to it. But learning how to do different buttons is technically easier.

OoS against shieks don't work well for me!

 

[Mogwai]

Shine OoS if they space like a ******

but mostly SHFFL nair OoS

or WD back

Sheiks who space are gay

ahhhhh **** =D

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

Can you show me some vids your falco, Mogwai.

 

[Falcinho]

i like upsmash OoS against Sheik =D

 

[battousai555]

Does shine OoS work against a nair-shining fox (assuming he's quick-sauce)?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

yea, as long as you know the timing for the shield stun.

 

[battousai555]

yea, as long as you know the timing for the shield stun.

I can haz frame data?

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

you can haz game experience

 

[battousai555]

you can haz game experience

So what you're implying is that as far as us mere mortals are concerned, shine OoS is legit-sauce against fox's nair-shines? I'm curious as to whether or not frame-perfect foxy nair-shines can be contested. I've seen Falco's pillar frame data, but haven't been able to find fox's. Many thanks to whoever can find me the frame data

 

[Deleted member]

shield > sidestep > shine

shield > angle shield toward them > jump shine > WD/2nd jump > escape reliably

light shield > z shield > slide away > WD oos away from opponent

shield > angle shield toward them > jump > waveland on platform > react

tbh as falco you shouldn't need shield very often. the crux of falco is a heavy reliance on layering broken attacks that combo into each other indefinitely, as well as using lasers to stop/prevent dashdancing. play to your strengths.

 

[Mogwai]

So what you're implying is that as far as us mere mortals are concerned, shine OoS is legit-sauce against fox's nair-shines? I'm curious as to whether or not frame-perfect foxy nair-shines can be contested. I've seen Falco's pillar frame data, but haven't been able to find fox's. Many thanks to whoever can find me the frame data

well, without doing too much research into it, it's something like:

shield stun in 1 cycle: 8 (shine) + 14 (nair) = 22 frames
total frames in 1 cycle: 4 (shine) + 3 (extra shine hitlag) + 15 (fastest SH FF) + 6 (extra nair hitlag) + 7 (nair l-cancelled landing lag) = 35 frames

that means that in 1 cycle, there are 2 openings with a total of 13 frames out of shield stun. shine OoS comes out on frame 6, so that means that in a perfect world, shine OoS beats Fox's nair shine pressure by a couple frames depending on when you're trying it and how early he's nairing.

 

[Hypethug]

I shine OoS all the time expecially in dittos....

 

[Antifate]

I'm confused with how do to a shine OoS. Do you just shield->jump->shine? Or is it something else.

 

[TresChikon]

Yes, that's the idea.

Theres lots of ways, C-stick jump to down b is what i use.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

shield->jump->shine

its the same idea as multishining, except you have a shield up first. You also don't have to be perfect, you only need to be able to hit someone on the ground. Usually you will jump->platform waveland and follow up from there.


edit: and buttons don't matter. I use my standard jump button (Y) to do all of my jumps (besides shine->bair w/ fox; i do use Y for shine->nair with fox)

 

[SleepyK]

oos against aerials... falco can beat out almost all shield hits with
1) shine oos
2) wd oos
3) instant dair on contact

wd is mainly useful for spaced aerials on your shield.

I am a defensive falco and I really want to build on this technique. Any ideas how?

this is a problem.
falco has the best offense in the game.
not using and abusing his best feature kind of limits his game.

 

[unknown522]

basically, if they don't space on your shield, you do shine OoS. If they do space on your shield, WD backwards.

 

[TheKneeOfJustice]

basically, if they don't space on your shield, you do shine OoS. If they do space on your shield, WD backwards.

Then you get predictable. You still need to mix it up.

 

[Fortress | Sveet]

lol you don't need to be unpredictable with your guaranteed punishes. Do you have to mix it up when punishing a missed rest? You have a guaranteed punish if they misspace on your shield.

 

[SleepyK]

sveet is correct, but they can bait you into doing things if you assume they'll do certain approaches

 

[precision]

say i am trying to shield pressure a fox by pillaring. he up smashes me out of shield right after my first d-air. am i getting punished for a missed fast fall or something? am i doing something wrong or what?

 

[Michael_BluFalco]

say i am trying to shield pressure a fox by pillaring. he up smashes me out of shield right after my first d-air. am i getting punished for a missed fast fall or something? am i doing something wrong or what?

that fox has good timing.. you should do what I do.. approach with grabs and double to triple shines.. its gg if they open up.. thats how I do it and from experience i don't get punished for multishining then dair behind their shield or sometimes im just like f.uk it too much work and jc grab out of the double shine