"Wha chu doin' boi?"

[Sucumbio]

Link to original post: [drupal=3232]"Wha chu doin' boi?"[/drupal]



So... I'm taking my wife to work, and as we cruise down the highway I see off in the distance a couple of police cruisers pulled over with their lights on. I follow the "move-over" law and get into the other lane to pass them by.

Then I see what they're doing...

They haven't pulled over a vehicle. Instead I see them apparently questioning a couple of guys, wearing some ... interesting apparel. Robes, heads covered even, they looked like jedi knights but with these really thick beards, and the colors were mainly light, like sand.

"Muslims?" I thought. Perhaps... they certainly resembled the similar attire...

My wife comments: "Racial profiling at its best." And follows a heavy sigh.

I think about it... as I think about it now... and I think... is it? I mean, 1.) These 2 were walking down the side of a highway (illegal), dressed like Osama bin Laden, in the deep south. What cop ISN'T going to stop them and be like "can I help you? You broke down somewhere? Wha chu doin' boi?"

The cops let them go, eventually. I know this because as I'm driving back home from after dropping my wife off, there they are, back on the road, walking their merry way to wherever, motorists slowing down a bit and giving them looks as they drive by.

I guess I'm just not sure how to take this event. I wanted to feel bad for them, but couldn't. I wanted to assume they were up to no good, so that I could feel better about not being able to feel bad for them. I ended up reasoning the police's actions. They were walking on a highway. You aren't allowed to do that, technically, unless its an emergency. The police stopped them obviously to ensure they had a legitimate reason for walking there, and weren't up to no good.

Then again the whole thing may have been a social experiment, and those two were actually just college kids in costumes with hidden cameras and recorders, and now there will be a youtube video of it soon with a "Die Pig Die" banner.

 

[Professor :3]

Muslims are prone to explosions, why wouldn't cops keep them in check?

 

[Jim Morrison]

HAHAHAHAHAHA OH WOW
Comment above made me lol good.

All in all, I guess racial profiling isn't necessarily bad. It's natural to distrust people that do not look the same as you.

 

[Insetick]

Just because it's natural doesn't mean it isn't bad

How many terrorists have been caught on US soil? Personally, I think it's a small enough number to not suspect random Muslims of being dangerous, even if they're being sketchy. Lots of people do sketchy things in public, but you don't suspect them of having bombs, do you?

 

[Ganonsburg]

Just because it's natural doesn't mean it isn't bad

How many terrorists have been caught on US soil? Personally, I think it's a small enough number to not suspect random Muslims of being dangerous, even if they're being sketchy. Lots of people do sketchy things in public, but you don't suspect them of having bombs, do you?

And just because a few people don't like doesn't mean it is bad. Is it unreasonable to think, "This group has been doing this, it is a possibility that related groups may do it as well." That's called noticing patterns. Obviously there's a point where it's wrong, but it doesn't mean all racial profiling is bad.

 

[highfive]

I remember my last year speech teacher telling us he had dressed like a Muslim for a play then was almost beaten by some rednecks that saw him. I'm sad they didn't beat him. Not because he looked Muslim, but because he's a horrible teacher.

 

[Zajice]

I remember my last year speech teacher telling us he had dressed like a Muslim for a play then was almost beaten by some rednecks that saw him. I'm sad they didn't beat him. Not because he looked Muslim, but because he's a horrible teacher.

Wow.

I laughed really really really hard at this.

 

[Insetick]

And just because a few people don't like doesn't mean it is bad. Is it unreasonable to think, "This group has been doing this, it is a possibility that related groups may do it as well." That's called noticing patterns. Obviously there's a point where it's wrong, but it doesn't mean all racial profiling is bad.

What? Yes, it is a tad unreasonable. I would be very suspicious of Muslims if I was in Afghanistan. As I said, though, how many terrorists have been caught on US soil? I think it's a bit ridiculous to be suspicious of Muslims here because some on the other side of the world are crazy.

Neo-nazis live in the US and commit hate crimes against minorities. Is it reasonable for me to suspect that every white guy I see wants to lynch me?

 

[PassWurD]

Neo-nazis live in the US and commit hate crimes against minorities. Is it reasonable for me to suspect that every white guy I see wants to lynch me?

Yeah, and while you're at it, don't forget the women. We're crazy savages, rawr.

 

[Ganonsburg]

What? Yes, it is a tad unreasonable. I would be very suspicious of Muslims if I was in Afghanistan. As I said, though, how many terrorists have been caught on US soil? I think it's a bit ridiculous to be suspicious of Muslims here because some on the other side of the world are crazy.

Neo-nazis live in the US and commit hate crimes against minorities. Is it reasonable for me to suspect that every white guy I see wants to lynch me?

No, but it is reasonable to suspect anyone who wears a swastika for no good reason.

Not saying that wearing a turban is the same as wearing a swastika; it most certainly is not. But it is why it's not unreasonable to profile. People need to use common sense, their discretion, and whatever other tools they have around to determine whether or not it is a good time to act on the racial profiling or not.

But if you want to ignore all of it, go ahead. The US is racist when it comes to everything else such as scholarships, but our safety? Yeah, lets make an exception for our safety.

 

[Kewkky]

It's just fear. People are afraid of muslims because of the whole 9/11 incident and those found to be responsible. They want to blame someone for the situation, and since they can't blame Osama because he's elusive, they blame whoever has the closest relation to them, and in most cases it's the entirety of the muslim community. Some people have been brainwashed to think that people who dress in robes keep explosives concealed, or are simply up to no good, to do what their patron Osama wants them to do, essentially labeling them all "terrorists".

What people refuse to understand... Is that no one is responsible for what others have done. You can't blame the current german society for what Hitler has done. You can't blame the current japanese society for what happened in Pearl Harbor. And definitely, you can't condone every muslim you see for what a group of outlaws and 'vigilantes (to their own religious ends)' have been doing. Osama may have done some very bad things, but does that mean that your muslim neighbor is partially responsible for Osama's actions? What would you expect your neighbor could've done to stop Osama's actions? Use some very advanced "muslim reasoning" that Osama would've understood? He's a guy with a clear resolve, and has a large group of people following him (his fellow terrorists). What could your neighbor have done to change Osama's mind? WHY do you think he's responsible?

We're not at fault because of some other guy's actions. If a government decided on attacking USA, would it be the civilian's fault, or his government's fault? I mean, he has no means of voicing his opinions if the higher-ups have some plan they're bent on achieving. If USA got attacked by them, why does HE have to suffer? Why does the attacked country have to punish them for something they have no fault in?


I don't understand racism, man.

 

[john!]

Um guys, walking down a highway is illegal. They probably would have been stopped no matter what race they were.

If you cry "RACISM" every time something bad happens to a minority, then you are a racist.

 

[Kewkky]

If you cry "RACISM" every time something bad happens to a minority, then you are a racist.

No, it just means you're jumping to conclusions too quickly.

 

[RyuReiatsu]

I embrace racial profiling. Dirty suspended asian restaurants are dirty. Oh and, I'm asian.

Spoiler

Just kidding. Seems like everything's so tense around here.

I actually hate it. We've moved to the suburbs out of the city a year ago, and there are only white people over here. Sure, that ain't a problem, but I can't seem to get a job AT ALL. I'm a good little kid that doesn't look like a ****** gangster or anything. Plus people are always looking at me as if I were some sort of alien.

And no, I'm not living in the US. So the economic crisis excuse can kiss my *ss.

No, it just means you're jumping to conclusions too quickly.

I have to agree.

 

[Ganonsburg]

No, it just means you're jumping to conclusions too quickly.

Isn't racial profiling also jumping to conclusions too quickly? I mean, that is what an assumption is. But if you're looking for racism in every nook and cranny, then it's obviously racism that compels you to do so.

 

[john!]

No, it just means you're jumping to conclusions too quickly.

That's what racists do.

 

[Kewkky]

Isn't racial profiling also jumping to conclusions too quickly? I mean, that is what an assumption is. But if you're looking for racism in every nook and cranny, then it's obviously racism that compels you to do so.

Hmm, that's a good point you brought up there... But I don't think that calling others "racists" at the smallest notice means you're a racist.

Racism is the belief that race is a primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race. Or, on the opposite side, racism can be described as the belief that a certain race or races portray undesirable characteristics.

So, calling other people "racists" due to jumping to conclusions too quickly isn't really saying anything, other than you saying they're racists. Plus, you're not calling out the person's race, you're just pointing out what you believe their behavior is based upon. So if you see a white man beating up a black man, immediately you'd think "RACIST!"... But what if the black man shoved a knife in the white guy's face, and he's defending himself? Or what if the white man said to himself "next guy to mention my job will get a beating" due to his life taking a turn for the worse, and the black man was just trying to start some small-talk and found himself mentioning something related to the guy's job? Neither of the situations imply that either of them are racists, so my calling this event "an example of racism" is only due to my bad habit of jumping to conclusions quickly.

I dunno, it may depend on what conclusion you come up with too. Like one of the above posters' examples, rednecks almost beat him up for dressing like a muslim. They probably concluded that "this guy is worshipping Osama" and took it from there... Or they could've concluded that the guy thinks "muslims are the best" and took it from there... Or they could've concluded that the guy "was a terrorist" and took it from there. Oh and, the only example I gave that was not based on some racist conclusion was the first one.

That's what racists do.

And that's what non-racists do too. I can look at a super buff guy and immediately conclude "steroids" or "bodybuilder". So, every quick-conclusion we come up with in regards to what this other guy is doing isn't automatically an example of racism.

 

[finalark]

So Jedi robes with big bushy beards? Wizards, obviously. Sounds strange to me, I'm going to assume that they were either homeless folk looking for a place to sleep, criminals of some sort, some people who just had some bad luck and were looking for a way out, or something I would have never guessed in a million years.

On the whole "muslims" thing, I think that everyone is paranoid about them because of the whole "muslim terrorist" thing. First of all, I know a number of muslims and all of them are very nice and highly respectable people. Second, EVERY BELIEF SYSTEM, relgious or otherwise, is scary when taken to violent and xenophobic levels.

 

[ETWIST51294]

That's what racists do.

You know what's funny? I'm almost 100% sure you're white and have never been a victim of racial profiling (I'm probably wrong though lol) . Try going to a store with your black father and watch the white people follow you around JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE BLACK. Getting pulled over for no reason happens all of the time in Fredrick County MD (only at night though), but only to people who aren't white. It is a mainly white area (I've actually seen KKK rallies in the street, real talk) so I can kinda understand, but it's a tad irritating.

 

[john!]

You know what's funny? I'm almost 100% sure you're white and have never been a victim of racial profiling (I'm probably wrong though lol) . Try going to a store with your black father and watch the white people follow you around JUST BECAUSE YOU'RE BLACK. Getting pulled over for no reason happens all of the time in Fredrick County MD (only at night though), but only to people who aren't white. It is a mainly white area (I've actually seen KKK rallies in the street, real talk) so I can kinda understand, but it's a tad irritating.

Believe me, I know that racial profiling exists. But if you assume that Arab people are innocent when they're examined by police (because you think the police are just being racist), and assume that white people are guilty, then you're a racist. Your racism may be somewhat justified, but it still exists (and racism is not necessarily bad).

And yeah I'm white. And I know what it's like to not get accepted into a university, while a classmate with less academic success gets in because the college wants to have a "diverse community". How's that for racial profiling?

 

[El Nino]

And I know what it's like to not get accepted into a university, while a classmate with less academic success gets in because the college wants to have a "diverse community". How's that for racial profiling?

Don't get blindsighted by race. What you have there is just bad public policy making. The fastest way to shut up the anti-racist lobbyists, from a politician's POV, is to throw them a bone. When they do this, they're screwing everyone: you, the disadvantaged communities they're claiming to help, and that classmate of yours, who is probably going to have a rough time in college due to having an academic background that doesn't match the skill level of the courses he'll be taking. If you take a C level student and send him to some elite college, you're just setting him up to fail. And if you're a politician, you're just doing it because you don't want to take the time and the funds to set up more vocational schools/programs so that C level students from underprivileged backgrounds can still make something of themselves, or you don't want to improve K-12 education so that minority students can actually qualify to go to those colleges. Because, you know, doing that requires actual thought and effort.

@other stuff in thread: I think the level of public education in the U.S. shows itself whenever America talks about those guys with turbans and "threats to security." I'm not getting into that here. But I will say that so much of what I hear about racial profiling and security comes down to this: THE PRICE OF FREEDOM IS ALWAYS WORTH PAYING.

As long as someone else is paying.

It's late, and I think I'm going to regret this tomorrow. Good night, UB.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I think the ones who jump to conclusions too quickly are the ones who are quick to shout racial profiling down as something awful.

It is true that most muslims aren't terrorists.

but it is also true that most terrorists are muslims.

 

[Insetick]

Most skinheads are white guys. I'm now too scared to walk outside because every single white guy I see could be a god-**** nazi.

 

[CRASHiC]

Muslims are prone to explosions, why wouldn't cops keep them in check?

Actually, before anyone takes offense to them, he's talking about their abnormally high rate of spontaneous human combustion do to their diet. Nothing else I'm sure.

 

[El Nino]

but it is also true that most terrorists are muslims.

Yes, and the overwhelming majority of sex offenders are male.

But if we were officers in charge of an investigation, out to arrest some pedophile, you'd better have more to go on than "most pedophiles are male." That's a lot of people to detain and question, and not only are you violating their rights, you're also straining your resources in a way that is going to possibly allow this offender to escape.

 

[Ganonsburg]

Yes, and the overwhelming majority of sex offenders are male.

But if we were officers in charge of an investigation, out to arrest some pedophile, you'd better have more to go on than "most pedophiles are male." That's a lot of people to detain and question, and not only are you violating their rights, you're also straining your resources in a way that is going to possibly allow this offender to escape.

Yeah, but if you found a guy at night walking behind a girl, wouldn't you assume something might be up? When you see a group of people that is at higher risk for something than other groups in a situation where there's a higher risk for that particular offense, you will profile. And it's not unreasonable in those situations, given the circumstances.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

Yes, and the overwhelming majority of sex offenders are male.

But if we were officers in charge of an investigation, out to arrest some pedophile, you'd better have more to go on than "most pedophiles are male." That's a lot of people to detain and question, and not only are you violating their rights, you're also straining your resources in a way that is going to possibly allow this offender to escape.

I wasn't saying all muslims should be detained, but I was saying that if you have a range of 100 possible suspects, and all other things being equal, 5 of them are muslim, they would than get a much higher priority than most everyone else on the list.

Instead of applying it to something as wide as gender, think of something else you could use to identify people. Let's say America had a rash of right-wing terrorism (coincidentally, it does right now lol). Would you say the authorities are justified in checking out the various militant anarchist groups all over the United States, or would you say they should treat everyone equally?

 

[john!]

So then, where do we draw the line between making reasonable assumptions and making prejudiced assumptions? Is there a line at all?

 

[ETWIST51294]

I think it depends on the person.

 

[Insetick]

Instead of applying it to something as wide as gender, think of something else you could use to identify people. Let's say America had a rash of right-wing terrorism (coincidentally, it does right now lol). Would you say the authorities are justified in checking out the various militant anarchist groups all over the United States, or would you say they should treat everyone equally?

You reiterated the idea I gave earlier. If I was in afghanistan, I would be wary of a sketchy muslim dude. I would be suspicious of people in american anarchist groups if a bunch of them started bombing buildings here.

But the sketchy muslim guy in the OP was here in the US. Likewise, I wouldn't think an anarchist here in the US would have a bomb if anarchist terrorists on the other side of the world were bombing stuff.

 

[El Nino]

Let's say America had a rash of right-wing terrorism (coincidentally, it does right now lol). Would you say the authorities are justified in checking out the various militant anarchist groups all over the United States, or would you say they should treat everyone equally?

Anarchists are not right-wing.

Furthermore, anarchists have always been under the radar. I mean, always. There is never a safe time to be in opposition to the established state. Because the U.S. has the resources, it takes very little effort to start an undercover investigation in a student activist group. It may not result in an arrest--I would say that most of the time, no action is taken on the part of law enforcement--but there will be a file about it stored away for future reference.

If you organize a protest of any reasonable size, even if it stays peaceful, the authorities will start an investigation. You will be on file. No government lets these things slide. A more organized and experienced government will hide it well, but that doesn't mean they don't do it.

Also, authority does not offer justification, nor does it ask for permission. Authority does what is in its power to do.

Edit:

If I was in afghanistan, I would be wary of a sketchy muslim dude.

Well, yeah, sure, that's understandable, but something tells me that there's more than one Muslim dude in Afghanistan. And I think most of them will seem "sketchy." I think most of them will probably be looking at you funny. Probably because you are a foreigner in their country, and they never granted you permission to be there. You charged in without asking, and they're probably thinking there's a good chance that you could be armed, and they don't know if you're going to start exploding on them, or if you came to help but your mere presence is going to draw unwanted attention from the other wolves in the desert.

But then, I never did pay much attention in world history class.

I would be suspicious of people in american anarchist groups if a bunch of them started bombing buildings here.

I hope no one is dumb enough to try. That would just be stupid.

I wouldn't think an anarchist here in the US would have a bomb if anarchist terrorists on the other side of the world were bombing stuff.

Rest assured, anarchists don't do jack. Except type away on the Internet like the proud keyboard warriors they are.

 

[Falconv1.0]

Anarchy is freedom brother. We gotta pave the way for the truth and get us some vests.

 

[MarioMariox2]

You know you play too much smash when...

"I read:

'Wha chuDAT doin' boi?'

for the title..."

 

[Sucumbio]

lol I enjoyed the response to this thread ... I still feel as if my wife may have jumped to conclusions about the officer's actions, but I also believe if you're dressed up like bin Laden and walking down the side of the highway, you're asking for trouble.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think the ones who jump to conclusions too quickly are the ones who are quick to shout racial profiling down as something awful.

It is true that most muslims aren't terrorists.

but it is also true that most terrorists are muslims.

Prove it?


I'd venture to say that this is only true in Muslim dominated areas, and muslim terrorists are just getting the most press as of late.


I keep an eye on things, I see eco-terrorists, I see anti-abortion terrorists, and terrorists for a number of different causes, but I rarely see any muslim terrorists caught on US soil.


Yes, this isn't statistically valid reasons, but you're suggesting there's a difference, so prove it.


Hell, this doesn't even account for the fact that most people that we call "terrorists" aren't actually terrorists, they simply engage in unconventional warfare of some form.

 

[El Nino]

I just wanted to point out that political activism is a choice, but ethnic/racial descent is not. What can you do if someone halfway around the world starts a war while wearing your face? Peel off your skin? Who dresses like bin Laden? Maybe bin Laden dresses like your average Joe in Afghanistan. Then what is the rest of that country going to do? Starting wearing Armani suits?

 

[Insetick]

Well, yeah, sure, that's understandable, but something tells me that there's more than one Muslim dude in Afghanistan. And I think most of them will seem "sketchy." I think most of them will probably be looking at you funny. Probably because you are a foreigner in their country, and they never granted you permission to be there. You charged in without asking, and they're probably thinking there's a good chance that you could be armed, and they don't know if you're going to start exploding on them, or if you came to help but your mere presence is going to draw unwanted attention from the other wolves in the desert.

But then, I never did pay much attention in world history class.

I hope no one is dumb enough to try. That would just be stupid.

Rest assured, anarchists don't do jack. Except type away on the Internet like the proud keyboard warriors they are.

Um, thanks for the lesson on Afghanistan? You've gone completely off topic, though, and I think my argument still stands, even if "most [Afghans] will seem 'sketchy'" or that "anarchists don't do jack."

 

[El Nino]

You've gone completely off topic

I was born off topic.

I think my argument still stands, even if "most [Afghans] will seem 'sketchy'" or that "anarchists don't do jack."

I wasn't arguing with you, just expanding on what you already said.

There ought to be a rule that bans me from ever making comments on any thread of a political nature. Ever.

 

[Sucumbio]

I just wanted to point out that political activism is a choice, but ethnic/racial descent is not. What can you do if someone halfway around the world starts a war while wearing your face? Peel off your skin? Who dresses like bin Laden? Maybe bin Laden dresses like your average Joe in Afghanistan. Then what is the rest of that country going to do? Starting wearing Armani suits?

True this, which is why I started at her comment in the first place. See... this ties in strongly w/the other thread's WWII discussion. Japanese Internment Camps, anyone?

I felt as if they'd been singled out, these 2 blokes walking the highway. But then it's a messy situation. The cops can't ignore them! They're technically breaking the law. It just looked bad all around. 2 obviously Muslim dudes (I guess, I mean I profess ignorance here, are there any other nations that dress in this way?) gettin' questioned by police, and it wasn't 1 car 2 cops, it was 2 cars... backup, yo. And one making motions like he's reaching for cuffs... yeah they were "released" eventually... so it's all good, but this situation I see it playing out all over the country. It's not fair (to them) that they should stand out in this way. I almost wish dressing like that were banned so you wouldn't have to look at them and think "terrorist!" but that's just TOTALLY racist, now and so much for being open-minded kinda thing. So basically no matter what, because of the state of affairs half way around the world, and post-9/11 America, a Muslim who dresses Muslim, can't walk down the street without people looking at them and thinking "oh one of THOSE" ... and that sucks.

There ought to be a rule that bans me from ever making comments on any thread of a political nature. Ever.

haha don't be too hard on yourself El Nino, you've got years experience over most of the posters here and your insights are well founded.

 

[Omnicron's Baklava Enterprises]

Americans...


So bloody paranoid all the time.

I bet one of your stupid 'rednecks' would probably die of fright where I live.

...Even though the people would probably try to comfort him.