Wes Talks Bans With Smash On Blast

[Mario1080p]

Videos like this encourages me to still continue on my idea of a Smash mode despite people already accepting Custom Equipment to be Banned by the mere mention of it. Here's my Smashboards thread on my idea for a potential Smash. It all sounds crazy, but hear me out.

I'm still looking for volunteers to try this online.

 

[Luigisama]

Just legalize customs. I want to see people lose and stay free to custom sheik side b that bring the opponent in to link an upsmash and no Di can avoid it. Also lose and stay free to dk custom up b 3 and lose to greninja custom neutral b that links into upsmash. Oh wait also so I can see people lose to one inch punch from mii brawler.

I mean if you lose to any of these moves you're just a scrub.

 

[LiteralGrill]

I'm very annoyed by the fact that stages like Skyloft, Wuhu Island, and Pilotwings aren't in tournaments, despite being perfectly legal like Delfino, Halberd, and Lylat Cruise. When I saw the Apex Ruleset, I was shocked at how limited the stage selection was.

I would like Skyloft, Wuhu, PilotWings to be an actual thing.

Now hold on folks! Some stages ARE banned for a good reason! Come visit us in the Stage Discussion Thread and you can see that Pilot Wings is banned because the wall on the red plan can be abused to camp the stage forever making it very difficult to be hit, as well as the fact you can land on and camp the yellow engines. If you pick Jigglypuff on that stage, you've won the match essentially.

 

[Wave Dan Landon]

I don't know what all this smash 4 discussion is about

Wes is just upset that Pokefloats isn't legal

 

[ObdurateMARio]

LEGALIZE MUTE CITY #UNBANNED #FREEMUTECITY

 

[moofpi]

Just legalize customs. I want to see people lose and stay free to custom sheik side b that bring the opponent in to link an upsmash and no Di can avoid it. Also lose and stay free to dk custom up b 3 and lose to greninja custom neutral b that links into upsmash. Oh wait also so I can see people lose to one inch punch from mii brawler.

I mean if you lose to any of these moves you're just a scrub.

I don't know about that one inch punch, since it can 1HKO on the top of Battlefield if you do it right. But then again we could just ban that move from that stage like the Brawl MK Clause for Halberd and I think another stage.

 

[Diamond DHD]

Just legalize customs. I want to see people lose and stay free to custom sheik side b that bring the opponent in to link an upsmash and no Di can avoid it. Also lose and stay free to dk custom up b 3 and lose to greninja custom neutral b that links into upsmash. Oh wait also so I can see people lose to one inch punch from mii brawler.

I mean if you lose to any of these moves you're just a scrub.

Yeah, because true follow-ups and stocks ending too quickly are an issue in Sm4sh. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

 

[Ansou]

So let me ask you all this, Whats required for Tourney's to allow Custom characters? Each player would need a 3ds/2ds to transfer the customer character to the Wii U?

Nah we just have to follow this format: http://smashboards.com/threads/official-standard-custom-moveset-project-initial-release.381395/
Then only one person at the venue needs a 3DS with all customs on.

Also I would like Skyloft and Kongo Jungle to be legal.

 

[Flawed]

Now hold on folks! Some stages ARE banned for a good reason! Come visit us in the Stage Discussion Thread and you can see that Pilot Wings is banned because the wall on the red plan can be abused to camp the stage forever making it very difficult to be hit, as well as the fact you can land on and camp the yellow engines. If you pick Jigglypuff on that stage, you've won the match essentially.

We already camp our games away anyway, whats the difference >.<

 

[TaichiYaegashi]

Custom Moves need to be legal. Equipment should stay as far away as possible

Except for these maybe?

running speed x1.2
smooth landing
strong smashes

 

[Luigisama]

I don't know about that one inch punch, since it can 1HKO on the top of Battlefield if you do it right. But then again we could just ban that move from that stage like the Brawl MK Clause for Halberd and I think another stage.

no don't ban man. Listen to wes we have to adapt.

 

[Jam Stunna]

I'm in favor of customs, Mii fighters and more legal stages. I think Smash 4 is suffering from Melee hangover, where stage selection has really been whittled down over the years. Smash 4 needs an opportunity to experiment and grow on its own terms.

I can see the argument against customs from a TO's perspective though. It would be onerous to ensure that every setup has every custom unlocked, especially at the larger regionals and majors. I can't understand why Sakurai chose to make custom moves unlockable, and then made it random. It's beyond ridiculous.

 

[Luigisama]

Yeah, because true follow-ups and stocks ending too quickly are an issue in Sm4sh. ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

Careful you might anger the people who think smash4 is balanced with/without customs. We don't want an overpowered character.

 

[Galix]

the issue with customs isn't so much the idea of them,which is honestly great, its the execution.

tournies already run up a lot of time and if you go the 3ds transfer route then you're basically saying buy a 3ds or you're not playing the full game.

 

[Zurreal]

No character should be banned at this point.
As for stages, a few more should be tournament viable such as Skyloft and Pilot Wings. Pilot Wings may seem like a joke of a stage for competitive play, but it has 1 stage hazard (I think?) being the ring structure you pass through, chances are, you won't be that high when it passes by. Plus, Halberd has the cannon, laser, and extending arm.. Skyloft should also be viable since it is, for the most part, platforms. Castle Siege and Delfino are in, so why can't Skyloft? I know it has some weird stops on the way through its' run but it's better to have more stages than very few, especially when choices are so limited and everyone seems to just go to the Animal Crossing ones which get boring, especially with the music.

BUT KK SLIDER THO?!

 

[Ansou]

the issue with customs isn't so much the idea of them,which is honestly great, its the execution.tournies already run up a lot of time and if you go the 3ds transfer route then you're basically saying buy a 3ds or you're not playing the full game.

Uhm no everyone doesn't have to buy a 3DS. Only one person at a venue needs a 3DS with every custom unlocked.

EDIT: Just read my previous post...

 

[Luigisama]

the issue with customs isn't so much the idea of them,which is honestly great, its the execution.

tournies already run up a lot of time and if you go the 3ds transfer route then you're basically saying buy a 3ds or you're not playing the full game.

You only need one 3ds to unlock all customs on say 50 wii u consoles.

 

[Galix]

Uhm no everyone doesn't have to buy a 3DS. Only one person at a venue needs a 3DS with every custom unlocked.

EDIT: Just read my previous post...

so say we do have 1 3ds with every custom unlocked. how do you expect to not only have the time to customize,but also transfer them in a reasonable amount of time.

EDIT: just saw the thread. its an interesting solution.has someone ran a local with it yet?

 

[moofpi]

no don't ban man. Listen to wes we have to adapt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rybmpr0kJKg

YOU ADAPT

It works on everyone Shulk and lighter from the top platform of BF, works on Rosalina at 30% from the ground, and anyone lighter at like 0%.

http://smashboards.com/threads/the-one-inch-punch-a-mii-brawler-insta-ko-tech.376667/

If you're interested.

I was never even an advocate of Diddy being banned, just reasonable nerfs, he can still be a top tier for all I care. And I understand the worries of this slippery slope but listen here...

This One Inch Punch is the Great Disaster foretold by the Aztecs where the sky will open and salt will rain from the heavens. Do you want that Luigisama? Think of the children.

 

[thehard]

I wrote something on this whole debacle (it's really not a debacle, the answer is clear) a little while ago: http://www.reddit.com/r/smashbros/comments/2t6snk/custom_moves_at_evo_and_beyond_for_the_good_of/

Let it be known that 85-90% of players are FOR customs, going off the various polls I've seen.

Skyloft is great, KJ64 is perfectly fine until someone can actually successfully barrel-camp (that was the ban reason at APEX?), Wuhu deserves more chances, PS2, MKU, and Mario Circuit should all be looked at again.

EDIT: And One-Inch Punch is a glitch and difficult to pull off in real games.

 

[Zzuxon]

I don't know about that one inch punch, since it can 1HKO on the top of Battlefield if you do it right. But then again we could just ban that move from that stage like the Brawl MK Clause for Halberd and I think another stage.

1-inch punch is a crappy rest that is only consistently useful against light characters in the air.
Better ban it.

 

[Ansou]

so say we do have 1 3ds with every custom unlocked. how do you expect to not only have the time to customize,but also transfer them in a reasonable amount of time.

EDIT: just saw the thread. its an interesting solution.has someone ran a local with it yet?

Not here in Stockholm, but I think my scene is planning to. I saw some people in the thread that had been to tourneys with customs though.

 

[moofpi]

1-inch punch is a crappy rest that is only consistently useful against light characters in the air.
Better ban it.

"...in the air." What is Down Throw?

Crappy rest? Haha no sir. Brawler does not fall asleep after its use or even depend on it like Puff to be viable. Especially since he is already a really mobile character, it's not like trying to ban Ganondorf's Reverse Molasses Punch.

Still, one hit KO on the top of BF from 0% on...
Standard Shulk, Mega Man, Default Mii, Lucario, Dr. Mario, Mario, Villager, Luigi, WFT, DP and Pit, Robin, Sonic, Pac Man, Greninja, Ness, Tink, Diddy, Palutena, Duck Hunt, Lucina, Marth, Peach, Zelda, Sheik, Little Mac, Falco, ZSS, Meta Knight, Fox, Olimar, Pikachu, Rosalina, Kirby, Game&Watch, and Jiggs.

That's 36/52 members of the cast. The last 4 on the list are really screwed by it though. And it's not like he doesn't have that tornado kick up B which people also call broken, but it's just really really good.

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

Except for these maybe?

Only smooth landing if we allow it.

 

[MarioMeteor]

Except for these maybe?

I personally don't see anything wrong with Equipment if everyone has access to the same equipment.

 

[MOI-ARI]

Custom moves baby. Lets go!

 

[Jigglymaster]

Wes are you insane, people can't adapt to 2222 Mii Brawler, any custom move is instantly OP and can't lose, don't you know that?

 

[moofpi]

I personally don't see anything wrong with Equipment if everyone has access to the same equipment.

I've been playing with equipment a lot lately with friends and I have a freaking ball with it, though I recognize it is RNG based and will never be fully legal, especially with some pretty broken loadouts I've faced at a Custom/Equipment tourney when it first came out. DK with Easy Perfect Shield, Explosive Perfect Shield, and Auto-Heal? I'd rather SD if that's cool.

Regarding Smooth Lander, here's a link to the Smooth Lander/Heavy Gravity thread: http://smashboards.com/threads/slhg-info-videos-builds-and-gameplay-impressions.383506/

They play that way to make it "more melee" combo-like, and it's pretty neat but I feel the Heavy Gravity just messes with too many characters in a bad way and isn't worth the trade off outside of friendlies. (Also I think if you really want the combos flowing, change the Knockback Ratio to 0.8 and let it happen)

Here is an excerpt from the OP of that thread regarding Smooth Lander and an equipment set up that every character can have by default and all you need to do is use a hammer to break the one challenge "Unlocked All Custom Moves!" and you get the Smooth Lander Brawn badge with a set value in everyone's game.

"Build 1 item list:
Code:
Item Name Stats Challenge
Smooth Lander Brawn Badge +36a/0s/-35d A7
Default Agility Badge -14a/+21s/0d unlocked by default
Default Protection Badge 0/-14s/+21d unlocked by default
Total: +22a/7s/-14d
Description: Easiest build to unlock. More knockback. More damage."

*Once again, reduce that knockback to 0.8 and you're golden!*

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I personally don't see anything wrong with Equipment if everyone has access to the same equipment.

Here's an example:


Let's say equipment is legal. Someone enters a Little Mac with two of the strongest attack badges and a defensive leaper badge with his up special as the one that lets you go higher. The Little Mac is stronger and can recover better than a normal Little Mac.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

Custom moves and Mii Fighters are fine as long as there is no equipment or modifications to the Miis except for custom moves, and I really want to see the Duck Hunt stage legal.

 

[Brickbox]

Ban banning

 

[moofpi]

Here's an example:


Let's say equipment is legal. Someone enters a Little Mac with two of the strongest attack badges and a defensive leaper badge with his up special as the one that lets you go higher. The Little Mac is stronger and can recover better than a normal Little Mac.

Well good thing I'm playing with Extreme Stance Shulk with Shield and also the Nimble Dodger and Explosive Perfect Shield badges along with the Vision that is slightly weaker but stays active longer.

Also I have a custom Mac with Hi-Jump that increases his ground jumps, but I would love that 1.2x jump height badge. The glass cannon load out would probably be popular, but it still cuts Mac's speed down a bit and yeah his offense would be horrifying but the jump wouldn't be a big deal. 1.2 times 0 is still not very much. Heck Doc probably needs that Leaper badge to be viable (and Moon Launcher because that Up B...).

Overall the combinations and innovations people would come up with would be utterly silly and impressive. No I don't reaaally think they're going to be too legal, at least not unrestricted, but if it was I could see top players and people making the game crazier than Melee ever was.

Disclaimer I love and appreciate Melee, but those infinite variations of characters makes my mouth water. Especially since I know people could make much more interesting versions than mine AND utilize them effectively.

 

[kesterstudios]

these tourney organizers need to stop being so stubborn and let custom moves be legal. they should at least try it and see what happens. on another note, that apex ruleset we had sucked. besides no custom moves, wuhu island, skyloft, and pilotwings should've been legal.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

@ The Derrit
Still no page about Mewtwo's birthday....You ain't gonna let this fly by, are you? You'll be cursed for life because Mewtwo will be after your soul.

 

[Nilloce]

I agree with the message. I would love to see custom moves incorporated into tournaments as well as previously banned stages. Skyloft seems very similar Delfino so why shouldn't it be legal?

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I agree with the message. I would love to see custom moves incorporated into tournaments as well as previously banned stages. Skyloft seems very similar Delfino so why shouldn't it be legal?

The stage's waterfalls and it can kill you without you knowing.

 

[LiteralGrill]

We already camp our games away anyway, whats the difference >.<

This is downright BROKEN. I'm no Jiggs main but I'd be totally up to adding people to show how bad that kind of stuff is, it's nothing fun for anyone involved.

 

[Road Death Wheel]

The stage's waterfalls and it can kill you without you knowing.

Well make that common knowlegde. then its a freaking water fall. that just drags you down. don't go to the water fall. its as telegraphed as all the legit hazards in halberg

 

[Rocket Raccoon]

I don't make the rules.

 

[Uffe]

Custom moves should be allowed. Any official feature of the game accessible to all should be allowed. It would also add a lot more to the variety and potential depth to the game which can't be a bad thing, surely. It's a real shame that so few, if any, have attempted hosting tourneys that give this sort of thing a go.

With that logic, no pun intended, you're pretty much saying that Giant Mode, Stamina Mode, Metal Mode, and whatever other mode is in the game should be allowed in tourneys. I'm all for custom moves, but that would create alternate tier lists. I'm guessing this is why Miis aren't allowed in tourneys, because of their different abilities. Unless you don't care about a tier list and whatnot, then it's definitely a good thing. But to be fair, new things should be considered, and if they don't work out, they don't work out. If they do, then great.