Weekly Character Discussion: Zero Suit Samus

[jehonaker]

I'm not a Zero Suit Samus main or secondary, but I play with her enough to see that she can be pretty vicious in the right hands.
Here's what I gather about her attacks and her options:

Jabs, Tilts, and smashes: Her down smash is simply amazing because of all the combination fun it can set up for. 0-40+% if she hits with the attack is nothing to laugh at.
That being said, the rest of her attacks on the ground aren't better than average. Her jab is nice, but her tilts aren't that impressive. The forward smash is good to mix in but a poorer choice than most. Her upwards smash is actually pretty nifty as an anti-air move.

Aerials: Three of her killers are aerial attacks, but the other two aerials (neutral and downward aerial) aren't that impressive. She does have solid options in the air...but they seem more to chase, not to approach.

Specials: All of them actually aren't bad. The chargeable Paralyzer isn't as effective as the downwards smash, but it does have its uses (think Mewtwo's Disable, but infinitely more versatile).
Plasma Wire has potential, but it seems more situational than anything else. Plasma Whip is just amazing (if it hits inside, it seems to push OUT to the sweetspot at the tip) as a killer or as a spacer. Flip Jump is versatile as a surprise approach or as a killing option.

Recovery: best of the tether-reliant characters, thanks to Flip Jump affording a "third jump" of sorts.

Grabbing: ...no. Her grabbing is truly awful because of how bad her grab is. Her throws aren't bad, but the grab is.

Defensive options: more or less average. A poor grab doesn't help out of shield, and her tilts aren't that spectacular.

Other notes: automatically getting projectiles to start a match is never a bad thing, and it affords her a bit more range.

Analysis: Zero Suit Samus definitely is a character that seems better than she initially appears, and she is clearly better than her armored counterpart.
She does have a few problems here and there with getting kills, but no more than others do.
I can see her really going up in tournament placings if people start using her: she has a lot of potential, not unlike the Ice Climbers to a degree.

 

[wWw Dazwa]

I get a decent sized majority of my kills from forward+B (with 2nd largest portion from bair)

I guess I'm just weird, lol.

 

[FBM]

Honestly, I prefer to use Plasma Whip to regenerate my real KO moves.

Hmm... that it's more keeping the KO moves fresh than actually regenerating them.

A couple jabs and a grab w/ pummels (which, if you pummel into ground release, gives you another 2 jabs on a lot of characters) will clear almost all of the stale move list. It's far from a necessity of course, as landing a dsmash will do you one better and just get the kill, but it's an option to can keep in mind, especially if an opportunity to grab presents itself.

 

[mimic_king]

ZSS is very fast and does have a great jab. Her over-b is very powerful and is one of her best moves. Her up b is terrible though, and her paralyzer is hard to hit with. She doesn't have much strength in her attacks except over b. On her positive side, her down b serves as a third jump, which can somewhat make up for the crappy up b. She has a very long range, but her grab is dodged easily and leaves her vulnerable. Her aerial attacks aren't very great, and her dair is another one of those gay charge down moves they added in Brawl.

Overall, ZSS isn't someone I would use in a tournament, but she is a fun character to use, despite her downsides.

 

[DeliciousCake]

She doesn't have much strength in her attacks except over b.

So, you didn't read anything anyone has posted in this thread did you?

 

[Adapt]

ZSS is very fast and does have a great jab. Her over-b is very powerful and is one of her best moves. Her up b is terrible though, and her paralyzer is hard to hit with. She doesn't have much strength in her attacks except over b. On her positive side, her down b serves as a third jump, which can somewhat make up for the crappy up b. She has a very long range, but her grab is dodged easily and leaves her vulnerable. Her aerial attacks aren't very great, and her dair is another one of those gay charge down moves they added in Brawl.

lol!

her up-B is sweet, side-B isn't even in her top-3 strongest killing moves, 4 of her 5 aerials are good, and 2 are great!

 

[mimic_king]

So, you didn't read anything anyone has posted in this thread did you?

I said MUCH. She can pull off some powerful stuff, but so can everyone else.

 

[James Sparrow]

I don't think her up b is crappy. It's actually very useful, and tether recovery in addition to a third jump is imba.

 

[Deception]

Her killing power is better than Power Suit Samus. How does Sakurai screw that up?

 

[mimic_king]

her up b isn't that great. It can be useful for tether recovery, but that's it. Recoveries that are only tether recoveries aren't good, like Olimar and Ivysaur.

 

[DeliciousCake]

her up b isn't that great. It can be useful for tether recovery, but that's it. Recoveries that are only tether recoveries aren't good, like Olimar and Ivysaur.

Yeah, you should probably stop talking before you say something really stupid. You don't seem to know much.

 

[mimic_king]

Im going to say this again. Her up b isn't THAT good. But it is still useful, like any recovery. Compared to others though, it isn't good. Ignore what I said earlier.

 

[FBM]

Im going to say this again. Her up b isn't THAT good. But it is still useful, like any recovery. Compared to others though, it isn't good. Ignore what I said earlier.

#1) the tether range is ENORMOUS
#2) you don't go into freefall after doing it, which gives you way more options; just one example: you get hogged and have your tether blocked, but you have a jump, which allows you to get another up-B off that pulls them down so you can footstool into another tether
#3) you can jump boost with it - any time you are making a long recovery and need to use a jump when your opponent isn't close, jump boost for extra height
#4) it's the best tether on a character that has 3 jumps anyway!!!
#5) it's very useful outside of recovering - it's a massively disjointed attack that can be used to force or punish airdodges and is a fabulous setup for aerials or a vicious dsmash chain if they miss the tech.

In my opinion, if you DI properly, there is nothing her recovery doesn't have an answer for. The trick is being able to read what's coming and do the right move at exactly the right time. Yes, being wrong does get you killed a lot, but practice is the difference between her having a poor recovery and a very good one.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Im going to say this again. Her up b isn't THAT good. But it is still useful, like any recovery. Compared to others though, it isn't good. Ignore what I said earlier.

Wrong. The up-Bs hitbox is ginormous and it pulls them downwards so you can hit them with something else. I mean theres not many attacks with THAT much vertical range out there so its pretty dang good.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I would say the ONLY downside of her up+b is that it's easily telegraphed. It has little lag, the spike is weak enough so that you can combo them out of it, great tether that doesn't stun you afterward.

 

[ph00tbag]

and her paralyzer is hard to hit with.

Why are you trying to hit with Paralyzer? Just shoot it and watch what people do. If they get hit, they suck and you can just beat them up. If they jump over it and airdodge, hit them with an aerial.

If the PS it, then curl up in a corner and cry.

Edit: (There's and answer to perfect shields, I just don't want to write it out right now.)

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Why are you trying to hit with Paralyzer? Just shoot it and watch what people do. If they get hit, they suck and you can just beat them up. If they jump over it and airdodge, hit them with an aerial.

I agree with this. The paralyzer isnt meant to directly hit the opponent but bait them into a side-b or an aerial. If they do end up getting hit by the paralyzer then thats good too.

 

[Orichalcum]

I use the paralizer mostly to bait opponents without projetiles and it works pretty well. Sometimes i do it for a grab setup, it isnt too reliable and there are less obvious ways to grab but it works. Just gotta not get repeative as i would get my *** kicked if i fail to grab :D

 

[James Sparrow]

zss up b is ownage, mimic king is sadly mistaken.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

Paralyzer is mostly there for you to generate a threat zone for them to deal with. If they get hit with it, fine. If they don't, then most likely that's also fine.

As far as Dsmash leading into Fsmash, that's still a good option, and the only time when Fsmash is actually useful. Fair double hits are *never* guaranteed, and any option involving waiting for them to pop out of the (variable) Dsmash stun is an unecessary risk unless it's low damage, when knockback is below the airdodgeable threshold. However, you shouldn't be using Fsmash to slap them out of Dsmash in that case.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

Yea but I would rather grab them or B-air them if I get them with a d-smash.

 

[RyokoYaksa]

You wouldn't want to Bair them unless you have a guaranteed KO percent. Saving what few powerful KO moves you have is important with ZSS.

You also wouldn't want to grab them since her grab has an uncanny ability to whiff against paralyzed targets.

 

[Adapt]

F-smash is a viable followup of a stun, it has a good trajectory and it's easy to connect. I tend to prefer uair though because it puts the opponent above you which is better imo and very little difference in damage.

 

[DeliciousCake]

You wouldn't want to Bair them unless you have a guaranteed KO percent. Saving what few powerful KO moves you have is important with ZSS.

You also wouldn't want to grab them since her grab has an uncanny ability to whiff against paralyzed targets.

It's a matter of spacing with her grab. There's a dead zone at the hilt, which is exactly the opposite of her Plasma Whip, where the dead zone is in the middle. On a side note, her grab hitbox at the tip of the whip actually lasts long enough that people can potentially fall onto it as it's waving about.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

O yea plasma whip can work good too if you get them paralyzed somehow.

 

[fkacyan]

You wouldn't want to Bair them unless you have a guaranteed KO percent. Saving what few powerful KO moves you have is important with ZSS.

You also wouldn't want to grab them since her grab has an uncanny ability to whiff against paralyzed targets.

Fair or side B out of stun is amazing, upair tends to work well too, though not when overused *cough*Snakeee*cough*

 

[ph00tbag]

As far as Dsmash leading into Fsmash, that's still a good option, and the only time when Fsmash is actually useful. Fair double hits are *never* guaranteed, and any option involving waiting for them to pop out of the (variable) Dsmash stun is an unecessary risk unless it's low damage, when knockback is below the airdodgeable threshold. However, you shouldn't be using Fsmash to slap them out of Dsmash in that case.

Variable isn't the same as predictable. The length of the stun is based on percentage. Know how long the stun is, and it's pretty easy to catch people as they pop up out of it. And if you know how long the stun should be, there's effectively no risk. On the topic of fair being unreliable, to this day, I have yet to have someone escape from both hits of fair if I'm moving forward and a little bit up while I hit them.

If fair really is as bad a choice as you say, which I still doubt, then I'd say nair or uair is still better than fsmash. It's the same percent as a non-sweetspotted fsmash, it's easier to set up than a sweetspotted fsmash, and it can generally be followed up more easily than fsmash.

Basically what I'm saying is that fsmash isn't necessarily the best choice even in that situation, even if it's fsmash's only real use.

You also wouldn't want to grab them since her grab has an uncanny ability to whiff against paralyzed targets.

Running grab is the culprit here. Standing grab, in my experience, hits every time. And if you just connected with a dsmash stun, then I don't see why a standing grab should be problematic.

 

[Snakeee]

Im going to say this again. Her up b isn't THAT good. But it is still useful, like any recovery. Compared to others though, it isn't good. Ignore what I said earlier.

Say that when I pull you out of the sky when you aren't even on the screen with it and B-air you on the way down. If that doesn't work she can sometimes follow up with down B attack. You really do live in Dreamland huh

also my favorite thing to do out of double d-smash to build damage is Up B now, because it's the most likely attack to follow up with. If you anticipate them to tech you can often tech chase grab. If they miss the tech than obviously you can punish them with another double d-smash follow up. And if it happens to not drag them down it still leaves them in the air in a vulnerable position.
EDIT: and up tilt works pretty well from Up B as well

 

[mimic_king]

I still don't like the up b. I generally use her side b and her jabs. I jab them then roll to the other side. I repeat this for as long as the opponent acts like a dumb*** and keeps falling for it. Once they realize it, I side b them, and if they are stupid, then they will die from the damage I built up on them with the jabs. If not, then once they recover, I grab them, throw them off the stage, and jump at them and use the paralyzer, since when you think about, it can be easier to hit with in air than on ground.

I forgot to mention that she is in a way an improved version of Marth. The tip of her standard attacks is the strongest point. It has a bigger range than Marth's blade, so you can stand even farther away from the opponent to get the strongest attack.

You really do live in Dreamland huh

Well I was raised on Aqua Star, but then moved to Pop Star a year ago. I haven't lived in Dream Land for long enough to be imagining these things.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I still don't like the up b. I generally use her side b and her jabs. I jab them then roll to the other side. I repeat this for as long as the opponent acts like a dumb*** and keeps falling for it. Once they realize it, I side b them, and if they are stupid, then they will die from the damage I built up on them with the jabs. If not, then once they recover, I grab them, throw them off the stage, and jump at them and use the paralyzer, since when you think about, it can be easier to hit with in air than on ground.

So you pretty much only play stupid people. I place no regard on your opinion.

 

[SwastikaPyle]

I forgot to mention that she is in a way an improved version of Marth.

I lol'd hard

 

[Sesshomuronay]

How the heck is she like marth?

 

[mimic_king]

In the slightest way possible. If you read my post carefully, I said that the tip of her whip is the most powerful point. The tip of Marth's blade is the most powerful point. You see how helpful reading can be?

So you pretty much only play stupid people. I place no regard on your opinion.

I play my cousins. Do you think that I can help the fact that most of the part of my family that I know is stupid? And Im pretty sure that you play SOME stupid people. This can help against those idiots. AKA: Those who haven't played Smash before.

 

[DeliciousCake]

I play my cousins. Do you think that I can help the fact that most of the part of my family that I know is stupid? And Im pretty sure that you play SOME stupid people. This can help against those idiots. AKA: Those who haven't played Smash before.

If they suck and are stupid I wouldn't need any sort of strategy against them. I also wouldn't give obviously wrong/bad advice because I think strategies used on stupid people work on people who DON'T SUCK.

 

[mimic_king]

Well a person who isn't that good can still beat you. It's just not likely. With this strategy, it is a lot less likely that they will win. You can still do this on some smart people, just that it won't be as effective.

 

[FBM]

Well a person who isn't that good can still beat you. It's just not likely. With this strategy, it is a lot less likely that they will win. You can still do this on some smart people, just that it won't be as effective.

This is beyond stoopid; please stop digging your own grave.

If you are actually good, you don't need special strategies to deal with crappy people - you just BEAT THEM DOWN. The only time you will lose a game is if you kill yourself 3 times, which means that you aren't all that good or you are drunk.

And a LOT of characters have moves that are strongest at their tip - this doesn't make them more like Marth, it makes them more like 1/2 the cast. Marth is the only all-tipper character - no one else shares that. Also, Samus' side-B cannot non-tip: it has a deadzone, which means it ONLY hits at the tip. Marth's attacks hit everywhere else but are way stronger at the end.

 

[S.B.Soldier]

her sliding upwards a is broken

 

[DeliciousCake]

her sliding upwards a is broken

Not even. It only has 1 hitbox for about 2-3 frames at ground level.

 

[Sesshomuronay]

her sliding upwards a is broken

more like crappy.

 

[-Mars-]

The backroom discussion for ZSS was pathetic..........just got around to reading it and I seriously lol'd. Why would they even post that?