Weekly Character Discussion: Wario

[BlueTerrorist]

Here are the rules:
- DO NOT SPAM IN THIS THREAD!!!
- Do not create another topic for Wario, discuss it here or I'll see to it your thread is closed at Sonic speed. No need to spam the boards with something similar to this.
- I know there will be debates, I only ask that you keep it civil. Tell the people you bring from the other boards that too. Any hint of flaming and stupidity that said person will be dealt with swiftly, I'm not gonna tolerate that mess here

Discuss, it seems many Sonic players have trouble with Wario.

 

[Boxob]

WARIO ***** SONIC

End of discussion.

 

[TwinkleToes]

Hyphen smashing will take you over a grounded bite.

Space him with whatever you can. His ground game is fairly lacking so you can use most of your tilts pretty safely while he's still grounded.

Problem is he'll usually be airborne :/

 

[Count]

I second sonic, and by no means am I a 'pro' but I've been seconding him since I unlocked the blue blur. And my friend mains TL and dedede, and I can beat both his TL some of the time and his dedede the majority of the time. He never plays wario, and he was messing around and went wario, and I got crushed. So yeah, possibly sonics worst matchup? Sonic is outprioritized both in the air and on the ground, making this matchup quite rough.

 

[Deathwish238]

yeaahhh...i hate playing wario's =/ fricken dair is killer but w/e i haven't played many and the one's that i have played have been on wifi...so yeah but still i don't like to play against a good wario they're annoying.

something discovered by tenki in the sega vs everybody thread that when you have wario in a grab and you don't throw him, eventually releasing him. if you release him on the side of a stage where there's no ground under him, you can automatically get a free up-tilted f-smash. if you want the details becuz why it happens you should ask tenki since he discovered it.

 

[Tenki]

Wario is such a horrid matchup for Sonic that if you want to win as Sonic, you'll have to take advantage of your opponent's bad 'player habits' (dodges, movements from ledge, laggy aerial landings, predictable recovery), and if you're up against a good player, those opportunities will come rarely.

There really isn't much you can do about Wario's moves. Dsmash is probably his most punishable one, since it's basically a single-hit Pika dsmash, so shield one hit and you get a free hit or grab- be out of range and you can land a smash on the latter part of the move.

As for landing lag, the most punishable aerials, landing lag wise, are B-air and D-air, but those are rarely done to be laggy.

- If you start shieldgrabbing his aerials, start expecting SH bites.

- Apparently, Usmash (out of dash, or DAC) does fine against Bite (?) but I'm not very adept with using Usmash, so I can't say much.

However, Bite does have some startup lag. Graphic-wise you won't notice it, but his actual hitbox doesn't come out until he fully extends his mouth. It can extend for 2 seconds, but expect a second bite after that, if you come rushing in after his first one ends.

Also, Wario can't eat springs. hint. `.`;

- Recovering against Wario, you don't want to be springing past the ledge unless you can airdodge because he can bite you out of spring. Learn walljump recoveries, and try your best not to be predictable coming back from ledge.

on Farts
- Pay attention to the time. At around a minute, a halfcharged fart can be lethal since Wario can pull it off and do a rest-style horizontal kill. If it's full charged, it's more dangerous to be above Wario, since the fart launches him upwards, and that is a danger similar to ROB's frontal B-air.
----------------

Landing the Fsmash.
After a bit of testing, I have two suggestions that may prove to be useful, should you somehow have Wario high enough so that you can kill him.

- Air-escape. If Wario air-escapes your grab (somewhat random for normal grabs, but guaranteed if you're standing on the ledge, or facing down a hill), you can hit him with an up-tilted fsmash and he can't do anything about it.

- Grounded Bite. Hoorah!! Up-tilted Fsmash > Grounded Bite <-- just found this about 2 minutes ago.

I love you all.

 

[Tenki]

guize you wont believe this, but if you time the edge grab right, you can infinite wario.

edit1:
i'm not sure, but Wario MIGHT be able to double jump to escape if he's spamming.

however, this may mean that he's screwed if he doesnt have jumps.

edit2:
I'm not exactly sure if it's timing or what, because sometimes I get a really huge 'teleport grab' range where it looks like Wario shouldn't be in grab range but he gets grabbed anyway.

edit3:
If this really works, can you imagine it? this is Sonic's 0-death grab LOL.
infinite to 130% on edge, then release>fsmash

edit4:
Just a note, try it with a friend. The combo counter in training mode counts all of the pummels as consecutive hits, but I had released Wario, had him double jump back to the stage, airgrabbed him and pummeled and the counter still went up, so it may lie to you.

 

[R4ZE]

WHATTTTTTT with sonic? if true... that is ground breaking.

 

[Tenki]

...

so I was gone the whole day after leaving a possible 0-death on Wario and noone's tested it?

come on ;__;

 

[Umby]

Just tested it with a friend. WFC input delay probably threw it off, but my friend claims he couldn't get out of it for the most part, though he had a very small window to escape if I messed up.

 

[Tenki]

lol when I was trying it out in training mode, I could escape, but me spamming jump while trying to time the grab doesn't work too well ;__;

 

[samper]

A death grab against Wario, yeah I could see how that could be useful. I'll have to try this for myself next chance I get, thanks for the heads up Tenki.

 

[Umby]

Tbh, anyone that can lift Wario above the ground with their grab can do this. Grab, pummel once, and jump release.

 

[Tenki]

Yep. I took some info from Ankoku (that airescape is 100% if the feet are not touching the ground) and improvised it for Sonic vs Wario lol.

`.`; I thought that Sonic might have been too short to grab Wario, but maybe I was wrong.

So Umby, have you tried testing it with anyone offline?

I want to confirm if the actual grab is just tight timing or if it's really escapable.

 

[da K.I.D.]

is this like how snake can infinite down throw ppl like ike, cus i dont really get what is supposed to be happening

 

[Tenki]

You grab Wario so his feet are hanging off the ledge. Pummel 1-2 times (or whatever, as long as he doesn't escape between pummels). Let him escape (it will be an air escape), then regrab with the correct timing. Repeat.

110%+ at the edge of the level (or higher%, in the middle of level, etc):
You grab Wario. Optional pummel. Let Wario airescape, Up-tilted inescapable Fsmash for the kill.

 

[Tenki]

I like how this has so many views, cause everyone kinda was like
"well duh, Wario ***** Sonic"

__________________
da K.I.D.> dudes, i think memphis is on his way to becoming an hero... what should we do?
KirbyandSonicrock14> No, the only hero that guy is a sandwhich. If I have to say a hero it either 3,000 or Mr.X himself.
Teh Umby> You're only an hero when you have a winning steak.
KirbyandSonicrock14> So that make me the hero right? 'Cause I have the winning steak already.

lol Sonic boards.














































lolmindgames

hay guyz! 0-death confurmd!

 

[aeghrur]

=O, Holy crap, good thing I saw this. =D

 

[Mmac]

Sigh... That's what Wario needs, more infinites.

God, he's already got 8 that can infinite him, cut him some slack.

You sure this 100% works? You did test this with a HUMAN Wario right?

 

[Tenki]

Sigh... That's what Wario needs, more infinites.

God, he's already got 8 that can infinite him, cut him some slack.

You sure this 100% works? You did test this with a HUMAN Wario right?

nop.

I'm 40% sure that it's escapable by human Wario or it's something close to frame-perfect timing. I could escape it if I was using two controllers, but that's one person on two controllers so I can't really say for sure.

I did, however, test on a level 9 computer.

And even if it's not an infinite, the Fsmash still works, so a grab by the edge is pretty much a guaranteed finish if Wario's % is high enough.

The timing is probably comparable to Yoshi's chaingrab on Sonic, except for this one, Sonic has to delay and grab at the correct time, and I'm not 100% what the 'perfect' timing is.

Umby tested this with someone trying to spam button inputs to get out on wifi, and said that his opponent couldn't break out, but as for offline, I haven't personally tested it with anyone else yet. I've been trying to get some attention for it to get people to test it offline but I haven't gotten any results yet.

edit.
however, I have no sympathy for Wario as he has eaten too many hedgehogs.

 

[Mmac]

I'm much aware about Wario's Infinites (I'm the one who found the current ones), but I forgot about the ledge. It probably works with alot more characters than just Sonic (if it works).

And not everyone could Infinite Wario that holds him above the ground. Marth is too wide, Snake holds him too high, and everyone else (DK, Another Wario, Sheik, Ivysaur), their grabs are too low to regrab him

Still, the entire thing is situational as there's only a few places it could work, though I could see this happening often with platform heavy stages like Battlefield/Lylat Cruise

 

[R4ZE]

me and my friend tested it. I don't know that we are doing it right, but we were able to escape it using wario's air jump. If wario didn't have an air jump it was inescapable except if wario foot stool jumped sonic, but i think that was only possible when sonic mis times the grab.

We did find out that if sonic does a buffer walk grab on a grounded wario, there is a chain grab. all u do it walk forward with sonicn (ALWAYS HOLD FORWARD) and hit Z rebeatedly to pummel Wario as he is held until he releases himself. if timed correctly sonic is then able to grab wario again (normally sonic would be out of range but the forward on the directional stick causes sonic to be "moving forward" even tho he is standing still, and that puts wario in grab range)

this is kinda easy for sonic to mess up, or it was for me. but my friend who is an experienced chain grabber was able to pull it off pretty effortlessly. Key is timing, if you see sonic's sheild go up after the pummels, you messed the timing up. test ppl... i wanna see if anyone can find an escape for that.

 

[ShadowLink84]

Poor Wario, I would feel bad for him if I didn't dislike him already.

 

[MarKO X]

Wait.... you mean to tell me that if you grab him off the edge, you pummel him, then stop, then let him airescape, then you can grab him again and there's nothing he can do about it? (i.e. attacking, airdodging, etc.)

Sorry, I'm a little late with this.

 

[Tenki]

Wait.... you mean to tell me that if you grab him off the edge, you pummel him, then stop, then let him airescape, then you can grab him again and there's nothing he can do about it? (i.e. attacking, airdodging, etc.)

Sorry, I'm a little late with this.

Yes.

I got to try this with my brother, and AFAIK, it's either a "frame-perfect" grab or I can't get the timing correctly consistently. However, it's significantly easier to chain if you airgrab Wario out of a double jump

 

[Browny]

me and my friend tested it. I don't know that we are doing it right, but we were able to escape it using wario's air jump. If wario didn't have an air jump it was inescapable except if wario foot stool jumped sonic, but i think that was only possible when sonic mis times the grab.

We did find out that if sonic does a buffer walk grab on a grounded wario, there is a chain grab. all u do it walk forward with sonicn (ALWAYS HOLD FORWARD) and hit Z rebeatedly to pummel Wario as he is held until he releases himself. if timed correctly sonic is then able to grab wario again (normally sonic would be out of range but the forward on the directional stick causes sonic to be "moving forward" even tho he is standing still, and that puts wario in grab range)

this is kinda easy for sonic to mess up, or it was for me. but my friend who is an experienced chain grabber was able to pull it off pretty effortlessly. Key is timing, if you see sonic's sheild go up after the pummels, you messed the timing up. test ppl... i wanna see if anyone can find an escape for that.

i looked into this stuff long ago. its easy to do it in 1/4 speed, next to impossible in 1x speed. if wario mashes grab when hes released, he can get out of it. but its all to do with controller ports as well. even if it does work, the timing required to do it multiple times in a row make it far better to simply go for the 12% uthrow instead of mucking this up and only getting 3-6% off, and then having wario get a free grab + throw on you

 

[Tenki]

i looked into this stuff long ago. its easy to do it in 1/4 speed, next to impossible in 1x speed. if wario mashes grab when hes released, he can get out of it. but its all to do with controller ports as well. even if it does work, the timing required to do it multiple times in a row make it far better to simply go for the 12% uthrow instead of mucking this up and only getting 3-6% off, and then having wario get a free grab + throw on you

mashes jump?

Anyway, it still sets up for an up-tilted fsmash ;D

 

[Browny]

im talking about the walking chaingrab.

 

[Tenki]

Ah I see.

I'm pretty sure that Sonic's ground release is like, the same against every character. He can't really pull a Bowser and infinitely chaingrab someone with ground release. I usually get smashed/tilted out of it, or the person starts to jump or something.

 

[R4ZE]

well IF sonic's release is the same vs every character, i could probly cg every character.

it definately works on wario, we tested it. and it worked. i dont care if u guys dont beleive me. 99% of the people on the DDD boards still dont know "what an chaingrab" is. but that doesent change the fact that DDD is like the easiest character in the game to chaingrab with.

hahah.. u know what? your right, it doesent work... ill just keep these trixies to myself, then one day down the road when u see a sonic infinate chain grabbing a wario, u will be like "****, he was right"

 

[Ace55]

however, I have no sympathy for Wario as he has eaten too many hedgehogs.

God, that's one of the best lines I've heard in a while.

 

[Tenki]

Oh yeah, so it's pretty nice to use the Bike/Wheels to disrupt Wario's approaches since it creates an independent attack box.

 

[Boxob]

Wario still owns Sonic.