Weekly Character Discussion: Sonic

[thecatinthehat]

OMG. What a disaster, look at the past three pages. Ignorance everywhere.

 

[Boxob]

****, you guys are ignorant on Sonic.

Playing Lucky's Sonic'll teach you nothing of his potential.

Sonic isn't completely dependent on punishment, he's just beast at it. It'll sound silly, but Sonic's greatest strength is his ability to 'combo' - follow up and rack up damage in tangent with his other attacks. Tied with this is without a doubt in any good Sonic player's mind, his gimping ability.

If you want to play a good Sonic players that I know for a fact know how to play, I'd suggest either me, Tenki, puffball64?, _x_.

Between the above listed is a myriad of different effective play styles. Some of which may shock you with the effectiveness of the utilization of ALL of Sonic attacks and strengths.

That is all for now.

 

[Kinzer]

Not everywhere, but yeah...

 

[Pearl Floatzel]

Eh. The BRoomers know their characters best. They seem to be underestimating the lower tiers somewhat, though.

Not satisfied with this discussion, guys. Looked like you were just restating what everyone knows.

 

[Blackbelt]

The only thing I can agree with is Overswarm pointing out that Sonic is very much a punishment character.

 

[Espy Rose]

OMG. What a disaster, look at the past three pages. Ignorance everywhere.

True. Look at that ********, they think f-smash is FAST.

Excuse me while I go vomit.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Eh. The BRoomers know their characters best. They seem to be underestimating the lower tiers somewhat, though.

Not satisfied with this discussion, guys. Looked like you were just restating what everyone knows.

And not much people know alot about Sonic.

 

[Boxob]

****, you guys are ignorant on Sonic.

Playing Lucky's Sonic'll teach you nothing of his potential.

Sonic isn't completely dependent on punishment, he's just beast at it. It'll sound silly, but Sonic's greatest strength is his ability to 'combo' - follow up and rack up damage in tangent with his other attacks. Tied with this is without a doubt in any good Sonic player's mind, his gimping ability.

If you want to play a good Sonic players that I know for a fact know how to play, I'd suggest either me, Tenki, puffball64?, _x_.

Between the above listed is a myriad of different effective play styles. Some of which may shock you with the effectiveness of the utilization of ALL of Sonic attacks and strengths.

That is all for now.

Reposted for all to see.

 

[Espy Rose]

And not much people know alot about Sonic.

In hindsight, that's a good thing for tournaments.

But a bad thing when the SBR starts the Sonic talk and knows zippo about it...

Oh, and <3 Boxoxob, you get Steak.

Oh, and they auto-fail for not mentioning steak even ONCE.

By the way, I called this back when DeliciousSteakCake made that remark about their ZSS discussion back in the SBR thread.

---

Oh, and lol, I get mentioned on Page 1. Yippee! (Espy). This calls for a Pokemon image...

:jigglypuf

 

[thecatinthehat]

Boxob, you forgot recovery.

 

[Boxob]

Boxob, you forgot recovery.

They're ignorant, not ********.

They know his recovery is beast.

 

[Kinzer]

Somewhere in there I read something about Sonic's move being "telegraphed".

What the Hell are they giving away? I can understand something like charging up a DSmash with it's lag or the ending lag of Usmash, but for goodness sake Sonic has a lot if not some fast-framed attacks.

I'm going to reread some of the things and correct some points, wather they read my argument or not.

 

[thecatinthehat]

They're ignorant, not ********.

They know his recovery is beast.

Not quite. I've seen a lot of ignorance regarding his recovery.

 

[Boxob]

If they legitimately think his recovery is anything outside of amazing, I'd be shocked.

 

[Exia 00]

I like sonic and all but ****......why dont you sonic mains try to improve sonic overall. Screw the ******* techniques, just play the game creatively.... It might just be me but w/e.....If you dont like what I said then sue me


BTW, OBAMA FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Overswarm]

Somewhere in there I read something about Sonic's move being "telegraphed".

What the Hell are they giving away? I can understand something like charging up a DSmash with it's lag or the ending lag of Usmash, but for goodness sake Sonic has a lot if not some fast-framed attacks.

I'm going to reread some of the things and correct some points, wather they read my argument or not.

If ROB is jumping towards you, he can bair through you, double fair, fair to dair, nair to tilt, air dodge to d-smash, air dodge to d-tilt, air dodge to jab, falling u-air depending on size, gyro-cancel to bair/nair/fair if facing the wrong way to begin with, laser, side-b, gyro, up+b over you to various aerials, up+b to various rising aerials, and finally WOP bair.

Sonic does not have nearly that many options in that situation, nor many others, that aren't simply countered by "shield" or "roll". Most of Sonic's tricky options are too slow to do properly without a good opponent simply evading or blocking them. Sonic, should he get the momentum, can do many things... but you cna almost always see them coming. Sonic has much fewer options than most other characters because he telegraphs his moves; that is, his opponent can tell what Sonic is about to do before he does it.

 

[Boxob]

I like sonic and all but ****......why dont you sonic mains try to improve sonic overall. Screw the ******* techniques, just play the game creatively.... It might just be me but w/e.....If you dont like what I said then sue me


BTW, OBAMA FTW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I don't know if you've ever played Brawl, but this game's **** shallow.

We've improved on him as much as you can on the basic level. There isn't anything you could do that is creative, anything that'd make him unpredictable or better or improve him in any way without the use of '******* techniques' is already implemented by most everyone who's any decent.

 

[aeghrur]

some guy named Dark Sonic almost beat my MK at Fast1 both friendlies because I couldn't punish spin dash lol. This past weekend however, Inui fought Blue (supposedly best sonic in NJ, or Kai, but most say it's Blue *shrug*) Inui said he SDd 5 times in the set but still won. He used Snake. That's all I know.

o_O, M2K? MK not punishing Spindash? Is this 4 realz? Dark sonic like the one that posts a lot on these boards? :O
As for Inui SDing, John.

But seriously, Sonic sucks, we have 70-30 Match ups at best, just look at da K.I.D's Sig.

 

[thecatinthehat]

If ROB is jumping towards you, he can bair through you, double fair, fair to dair, nair to tilt, air dodge to d-smash, air dodge to d-tilt, air dodge to jab, falling u-air depending on size, gyro-cancel to bair/nair/fair if facing the wrong way to begin with, laser, side-b, gyro, up+b over you to various aerials, up+b to various rising aerials, and finally WOP bair.

Sonic does not have nearly that many options in that situation, nor many others, that aren't simply countered by "shield" or "roll". Most of Sonic's tricky options are too slow to do properly without a good opponent simply evading or blocking them. Sonic, should he get the momentum, can do many things... but you cna almost always see them coming. Sonic has much fewer options than most other characters because he telegraphs his moves; that is, his opponent can tell what Sonic is about to do before he does it.

Are you sure you're not talking about Falcon?

and have you ever faced a competent Sonic?

 

[cutter]

I seriously saw this coming back in April... :/

 

[Overswarm]

Are you sure you're not talking about Falcon?

and have you ever faced a competent Sonic?

They never get past the d-tilt spam, so I can't tell.

 

[Boxob]

I seriously saw this coming back in April... :/

While I understand your wanting to contribute, please refrain from spamming, it's unnecessary and annoying.

 

[aeghrur]

If ROB is jumping towards you, he can bair through you, double fair, fair to dair, nair to tilt, air dodge to d-smash, air dodge to d-tilt, air dodge to jab, falling u-air depending on size, gyro-cancel to bair/nair/fair if facing the wrong way to begin with, laser, side-b, gyro, up+b over you to various aerials, up+b to various rising aerials, and finally WOP bair.

Sonic does not have nearly that many options in that situation, nor many others, that aren't simply countered by "shield" or "roll". Most of Sonic's tricky options are too slow to do properly without a good opponent simply evading or blocking them. Sonic, should he get the momentum, can do many things... but you cna almost always see them coming. Sonic has much fewer options than most other characters because he telegraphs his moves; that is, his opponent can tell what Sonic is about to do before he does it.

Well, let's see what sonic can do?
Sonic can:
Nair
Fair
Bair(disjointed)
Homing attack
ASC(Down-B in the air)
ASC shield cancel upon landing on the ground which leads to stuff I list later under side-B shield cancel
Spinshot(ovally shaped arc jump at running speed)
Side-B and shield cancel upon landing which leads to
1. Shield grab
2. Roll
3. Spot dodge which leads to more crap
4. Jab
5. Tilts
Spring(projectile)-> Dair
ASC->SDJ(spin dash jump)
Airdodge(lol, so obvious, can't believe I forgot it for a while)
Side-B, land, and VSDJ(vertical spin dash jump)
Etc etc. Too lazy to list more

 

[thecatinthehat]

While I understand your wanting to contribute, please refrain from spamming, it's unnecessary and annoying.

I'm sigging this.

Overswarm, I'm pretty serious about this. Where do you get the idea that Sonic is predictable?

 

[Blackbelt]

I'm sigging this.

Overswarm, I'm pretty serious about this. Where do you get the idea that Sonic is predictable?

I too am interested in knowing.


Hell,. the thing I like about Sonic is how much crap I can pull off.

 

[Kinzer]

Good thing I refreshed the page, but basically Sonic has answers.

And those are with attacks, I mean you're talking like you're playing a training dummy to represent Sonic. If I were that Sonic I would just roll AWAY from R.O.B. and let him whiff those attacks and then go in for the assault.

Of course Sonic loses out on a lot, but we have so many options to work with that we don't have to go on the offencive...Sonic isn't even really an offensive(ugh, which is it, 'C' or 'S'?) character, somebody said he was more on punishment, and they're right!

 

[Overswarm]

I'm sigging this.

Overswarm, I'm pretty serious about this. Where do you get the idea that Sonic is predictable?

Where did I say he was predictable? I said he telegraphs his moves. He goes from Point A to point C, and when you reach point B I go "Oh, here's what is coming". The counter to virtually all of his options is nearly the same and thus easy to do. If every time a character ran at you all you had to do was f-tilt and then his options became limited to one or two things, you gain a lot of control.

 

[Boxob]

Where did I say he was predictable?

I said he telegraphs his moves.

Lololol.

 

[Tenki]

insert cliche objection post.

The last time I played Squared's sonic, was a few months ago, I pretty handily 3 stocked it. But I also had a lot of practice from playing against Rockcrock.

I like when Sonic's try to use their neutral B to recover, all you have to do is dodge and it sends them at a downward angle.

Past that, Sonic is pretty bad. Doesn't his dash attack go over Diddy Bananas, without picking them up. I think Prime told me that once.

Spindash roll goes over floored bananas.
Dash attack catches bananas.

ANYONE'S dash attack catches bananas.

Put in Smash Balls and Sonic is top tier.

yalol ASCdoublehit>supersonic is 222good

i see nifty sonic tricks people do, like where he spins at you, stops right in your face and grabs. also, just "fake" spin attacks, where they start then immediately stop to throw you off

That's punishable. People on WIFI grab me out of direct aerial spins. It can't be that hard offline.

On a much more versatile level, aerial spin charge (air down-B) aimed to land just slightly in front of you is, in a sort, a 'pin' for opponent reactions. You have about 10-20 frames to react to it.

Will Sonic cancel the spin, or will he go full charge into you? If you react the wrong way, you're getting punished.

Unfortunately, I can't rate the overall effectiveness of opponent reactions without frame data, which I'm fervently seeking atm.

I think the best way to fight sonic is to throw out attacks as quickly as possible and to pretend his attacks don't exist. It works alarmingly well.

This is true, at least on wifi lol. The strength in Sonic's approach lies in his speed and having to force the opponent to commit to an attack, which is why opponents with noticeable startup lag will have problems vs a good Sonic.
Overall, the 'shield'-based reactions (airdodge, spotdodge, roll, shield> shield grab) are slower and have a ton of commitment time. That's why it's usually better to attack and try to outprioritize/clang with Sonic than it is to try to avoid him.

Sonic pretty much goes up about 2-3 tiers when playing on FD. His spindash -> Up-B -> d-air (autocancel) into dash attack/grab/smash attack is amazing, but only works on FD.

I think Sonic is underrated, for sure, but he's not THAT underrated.

It's not amazing.
Not.. at all.
Spring > approaching D-air is horribly easy to camp.
Spring > retreating D-air is a little more difficult to camp if it's an aerial spring placed correctly, but nevertheless it's still punishable if you pay attention to which direction Sonic is facing when he springs.

They never get past the d-tilt spam, so I can't tell.

lol D-tilt spam on Luigi's mansion columns were hilarious XD

but after screwing around, I finally learned how to get rid of the columns faster (lol kill upper columns first)

I did play against a friend and had him spam D-tilt, among other moves. Aerial feint approaches or just well-timed dash attacks/pshieldgrabs did the job.

 

[thecatinthehat]

Where did I say he was predictable? I said he telegraphs his moves. He goes from Point A to point C, and when you reach point B I go "Oh, here's what is coming". The counter to virtually all of his options is nearly the same and thus easy to do. If every time a character ran at you all you had to do was f-tilt and then his options became limited to one or two things, you gain a lot of control.

Not at all. If you're talking about the standard Spin Dash > Aerial featured on the dojo, then you're severely mistaken.

 

[Kinzer]

C'mon Boxob, this is the SBR we're dealing with (and even though a lot of them aren't giving Sonic credit...), we have to look at least somewhat decent to try and give him some more stuff...

 

[Boxob]

He made a silly statement, you kids are too serious.

But yeah, Sonic can be unpredictable, especially with approach.

It isn't as if once he's running, he's going to attack you right away.

 

[Overswarm]

Haha Tenki, I did that to you too? Told you it works.

 

[Tenki]

Haha Tenki, I did that to you too? Told you it works.

The D-tilt on LM? It's a pretty clever trap.

When I saw you do it, I realized the column was slowing down my spindash just enough for you to get a D-tilt in.

I literally said something out loud along the lines of the emotions for "oh snap" and "i c wut u did thar"

Oh yeah, Sonic's F-smash and I think F-tilt outrange MK's D-tilt, so screw you.

 

[Boxob]

The D-tilt on LM? It's a pretty clever trap.

When I saw you do it, I realized the column was slowing down my spindash just enough for you to get a D-tilt in.

I literally said something out loud along the lines of the emotions for "oh snap" and "i c wut u did thar"

Oh yeah, Sonic's F-smash and I think F-tilt outrange MK's D-tilt, so screw you.

Bair does, as well.

 

[Kinzer]

Tenki, you're forget that we have Bairs, Dairs, Springs, HA, SD on invincibility, and a very well-placed Nair/Fair mgiht be able to beat out a MK spamming DTilt. XD

Edit: I forgot to mention Boxobairs.

 

[Tenki]

Bair does, as well.

Boxob would know.

D;

@Kinzer:
I'm thinking of the 'worst case' scenario, which is MK using a stage object to lengthen his D-tilt's hitbox time / slow down Sonic's attack as he approaches.

Single-hit/ranged moves like B-air/F-tilt/F-smash are the best in that case, aside from sliding pshieldgrab

 

[thecatinthehat]

You would mention bair.

edit: Tenki beats me to it again.

 

[Boxob]

What can I say.

Bair's sexy.

I like sexy things.

 

[Kinzer]

Hmm...well that's WITH a stage object, now try considering a more common situation...like being on Final Destination.