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Weekly Character Discussion: ROB

BlueTerrorist

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Yes, there will be two of these hosted. Remember, support both discussions if you want this to continue. Anyway, the rules for the thread :

- DO NOT SPAM IN THIS THREAD!!!
- Do not create another topic for ROB, discuss it here or I'll see to it your thread is closed at Sonic speed. No need to spam the boards with something similar to this.
- I know there will be debates, I only ask that you keep it civil. Tell the people you bring from the other boards that too. Any hint of flaming and stupidity that said person will be dealt with swiftly, I'm not gonna tolerate that mess here.

I say these are some fair rules right? Remember intelligence makes a discussion strong . Well anyway, what do you have to say about ROB?
 

Blapius

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- For the love of god, watch out for ROB's Nair--he will use it a lot. He has amazing defense in the air, so be careful. Bair is your friend off the edge, as is Dair if you can get above him.

- Almost EVERY ROB abuses the spot-dodge -> DSmash to some degree, so be aware that the ground surrounding him for one character length on each side is unsafe. If they catch on that you know what's coming after their spot-dodging, the next likely move is the Utilt. Be aware.

- ROB has a huge hitbox, so sweetspotting Fairs and landing ASCs has never been easier.

- Don't let yourself get caught in a Dtilt spree. If he starts throwing them out, just back off and find a different approach. The Spin Dash hop should get you in there without a problem. The same goes for the Ftilt: you will not out-range or out-prioritize this. Find a different approach.

- Remember that no matter what situation ROB--or anyone, for that matter--has you caught in, the spring will get you out. Don't let him combo your percent up, you will regret it.
 

TwinkleToes

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Though his recovery distance is great, ROB's up-b is easily gimped, and even more easily stage spiked. Be very aggressive off the edge against ROB.

ASC is a really good approach since it hits one of the angles ROB is very bad at defending.
Another really vulnerable spot is behind ROB's head.
 

ROOOOY!

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Lasers really screw up spindashes and that side of things, mainly cos ROB's like to angle their lasers towards the floor and it's gonna hit you even if you're curled up in a ball. Mixing approaches up with spinshots will help though.
Other than ruining Sonic's approach game, the main thing is that ROB's got Sonic's biggest weakness covered. Sonic's range is poor while ROB's is really very good.
You can't approach ROB from the front in the air or from above either because his Uair comes out fast and Fair is spammable to hell for him.
Sonic can't kill. ROB kinda takes advantage of that by being heavy and being pretty stubborn about dying. You're gonna have to be waiting til like 150% til you can kill him by standard means. Fortunately, ROB's really slow moving in the air and while he's recovering you can just do what you can to keep him away, his big size kinda helps with this. Watch out for the Dair spike of his though if you're off the edge, it's not that slow, but it's should be kinda easy to avoid.
Generalities include spamming Fairs like there's no tomorrow along with ASC, and don't get caught in a Utilt rampage, just spring out of it as soon as you can. Also, when going out to try and gimp ROB offstage, if he's above you before you leave the stage they'll usually throw a Gyro at you. Ignore and avoid the Gyro and go straight for him. They'll often Gyro and then punish you for avoiding it, so I just spring away from it.
ROB actually has quite a hard time killing Sonic, even though Sonic's quite light. His Usmash is kinda predictable, Fsmash has no range, Dsmash is the one you've gotta look out for, because it's usually used after spotdodge abusing so as to get the spacing and timing of the move right. Nair is the other kill move you have to look out for, though it's got a lot of starting lag so it's easy to dodge if you learn the move. None of his other attacks really pose a threat of death at a reasonable percent. It helps that ROB can't really gimp Sonic's recovery in the air, being slow and that.

Can't think of much atm..I'll update later. Correct stuff, half of it will be wrong, I'm busy doing other things while writing this and may be getting distracted a bit.
 

TwinkleToes

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^To expound upon lasers and gyros, Sonic should not be at a great distance from ROB if he can help it. The only time you should get hit with these things are at the start of the match when you can't help but start far away from ROB.

After that, it should be close spacing all the way. Much like with Snake, this doesn't mean you attack aggressively, just that you stay close enough to make ROB uncomfortable with utilizing his projectiles. You're approach against ROB must still be very measured and cautious. His laggy attacks will present openings for you.
 

Umby

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Fucking Gyro. Either ASC over it or dash attack over it. Otherwise it's it turns into an aerial battle momentarily where you lose.
 

Tenki

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Good ROB players tend to use Gyros as part of mindgames.

Throw a Gyro, plan for a jump and shoot upwards.
Throw a Gyro nearby, plan to punish a dash-attack pickup
Throw a Gyro, shoot at it.

..etc.

If you want to get rid of it, shield it. You can either shield/pshield the throw, or shield-slide into a grounded gyro. If he is unable to shoot at you or punish your dash attack, then feel free to pick it up, and use it for glide tosses and edgeguards.

An interesting thing to note is that during his up-B state, ROB cannot airdodge.

His D-smash hits low, so you can F-air or ASC, as previously mentioned.
 

ROOOOY!

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Chin up lil cj. Honestly, just be as aggressive as you can in the air.
I might do this write up, I'll incorporate what you guys say into what I've said (which I'm going to re-word) and I'll add some stuff too, I'll experiment with the match up some more. I used to second ROB so know his capabilities somewhat.
I actually found him boring to use.
 

Terios the Hedgehog

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Also he can snipe you with his laser while you're recovering which sucks. Also you have to be careful about the gyro when hanging at mid distance. Shielding or spot dodging that thing is basically asking to get grabbed. I've been about mid distance trying to bait moves from him and he just runs up and grabs out of my dodge/shield/wever, backthrow to laser= dead Sonic. T_T
 

FrostByte

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About DI
His Bair and Fsmash should be DI-d the normal way. Up and towards.
Every other kill move he has is upward sending. If you end up getting caught in his nair, DI away from it. You can SDI upwards to get out of his Dsmash or away if you're too late.

Note that if Rob tries to edgecamp you, run to the nearest platform or to the other edge. There's no use in trying to force him back up.

After you pick up his gyro, it's possible to use only B moves just so he doesn't get the chance to use it again. I haven't tested it with Sonic nor do I think it's practical with him.
 

MdrnDayMercutio

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Drop Attack with the top/dreidal. It'll allow you to use your ariels and keep the **** top in hand. Potentially, forcing if off the stage and than nailing him when he starts to abuse his UpB, like they all love to do.
 

Tenki

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After you pick up his gyro, it's possible to use only B moves just so he doesn't get the chance to use it again. I haven't tested it with Sonic nor do I think it's practical with him.
I've done it lol, racked about 40% before I started throwing the top.

If you have an item in hand, you can use normal aerials straight out of up-B.

OH, speaking of which, ROB's Gyro/glide throw (after he picks it up) is almost useless against ya, cause if you're too close, he'll throw it right over you.
 

Machiavelli.CF

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sonics long air dodge can counter the fact that rob has an amazing nair. as a previous rob user...i can say to air dodge then punish rob's large bulky size, fairs are god here! dont homing attack...unless u r sure they wont defend against it!
 

MarKO X

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airdodge also catches the gyro if ROB tosses it at you while you're in the air.
 

TwinkleToes

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I feel like we've had enough people in the Sonic section that have played decent ROBs to be able to do this write up.

The Snake one I'm not so sure :/
 

ROOOOY!

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Actually I'm not gonna do the write-up for this one. I don't feel qualified almost. xD

I've actually changed my mind on the whole "gimp him offstage" idea. I don't think any of Sonic's aerials go through ROB's fair (?). The main thing to focus on is the juggling in the air onstage. It's easier that way to get to ROB's 'weakspot', his underneath.
 

Anthinus

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ROB is always my longest match. I don't die, it don't die. Try to don't use Bair and FSmash in the 80%-130% to have it full charged to deliver a finishing blow on +160%.

You have to deal damage quickly, so I recommend ASC (spring on face or get away if you don't land it) and Fair (try to combo with other Fairs after you land it, if you see that you'll can't keep comboing SD or shield).

Mindgame ROB to make it attack and do an opening, because if you try to approach when he is doing nothing, your ASC and Fair will find his Nair and you know what happens...
They like to abuse dtilt, ASC and Fair can beat that, but if you get trapped inside this while shielding (very common) time it well and jump off your shield, then Fair...

Stay out of the range of ROB's DSmash but not too far or a laser/gyro WILL hit you, use ftilts. If he spotdodge any of your attacks he will DSmash after it, so if you see ROB is spotdodging shield or jump.

If ROB is below the stage level, Dair him to keep him of stage (I stage spiked ROB a lot of times this way)
or use other moves to keep him off the level. If you see the change Bair against the stage to stage spike it. Sometimes ROB lose all the fuel and fall if you pressure it off the edge enough.

Don't HA (NEVER when recovering) or you'll get hit by a Nair or Bair (can kill you easily if you are recovering).

The dash attack+spring+Uair/Bair/Fair->Uair is super useful cause can kill him at 130% or something. ROB is heavy and falls easily on the spring after the dash attack, if it tries to Nair after the dash attack will fall on the spring. When ROB is spring up with you wait when he airdodge and then Uair (if they haven't fall on this trick they'll be: "what the..." and don't dodge getting owned by your Uair lol). This works in high %s too.

I hope this helps, I played against that VCR face TONS of times... But can't record 'cause are MEGA long matches... If I forgot something I'll post it later.
 

PhoenixoKaZe

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ROB is always my longest match. I don't die, it don't die. Try to don't use Bair and FSmash in the 80%-130% to have it full charged to deliver a finishing blow on +160%.

You have to deal damage quickly, so I recommend ASC (spring on face or get away if you don't land it) and Fair (try to combo with other Fairs after you land it, if you see that you'll can't keep comboing SD or shield).

Mindgame ROB to make it attack and do an opening, because if you try to approach when he is doing nothing, your ASC and Fair will find his Nair and you know what happens...
They like to abuse dtilt, ASC and Fair can beat that, but if you get trapped inside this while shielding (very common) time it well and jump off your shield, then Fair...

Stay out of the range of ROB's DSmash but not too far or a laser/gyro WILL hit you, use ftilts. If he spotdodge any of your attacks he will DSmash after it, so if you see ROB is spotdodging shield or jump.

If ROB is below the stage level, Dair him to keep him of stage (I stage spiked ROB a lot of times this way)
or use other moves to keep him off the level. If you see the change Bair against the stage to stage spike it. Sometimes ROB lose all the fuel and fall if you pressure it off the edge enough.

Don't HA (NEVER when recovering) or you'll get hit by a Nair or Bair (can kill you easily if you are recovering).

The dash attack+spring+Uair/Bair/Fair->Uair is super useful cause can kill him at 130% or something. ROB is heavy and falls easily on the spring after the dash attack, if it tries to Nair after the dash attack will fall on the spring. When ROB is spring up with you wait when he airdodge and then Uair (if they haven't fall on this trick they'll be: "what the..." and don't dodge getting owned by your Uair lol). This works in high %s too.

I hope this helps, I played against that VCR face TONS of times... But can't record 'cause are MEGA long matches... If I forgot something I'll post it later.
yea, anyways, Cj, they is plenty of ways to beat Rob XD
 

TwinkleToes

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I think we actually managed to get a lot of good information on ROB. Would anyone like to do the write up for him or should I?

If no one wants to I'll start :O
 

TwinkleToes

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I hate to spam this but no one is commenting on my entry at all :/

Rob Entry (first edit):

R.O.B. is a common sight at most tournaments and he tends to place very high when used by a competent smasher. He is arguably the best camper in the game due to his long range projectile attacks and exceptional down-smash. Furthermore, as the 10th heaviest character with one of the longest recoveries in the game, R.O.B. stays alive for a very long time making his defensive play style even more aggravating to deal with. A few characters can do well when played aggressively against R.O.B. Sadly, Sonic is not one of those characters. In order to expose and capitalize on R.O.B.'s weaknesses Sonic needs to adopt a measured and time-consuming play style.

First of all, even against the short-ranged and weak Sonic, R.O.B. has very little approaching capabilities. His short hop d-air is bad as yours, his short hop b-air is slow and interferes with his momentum, his n-air is too slow to start, and his ground approaches are vulnerable to aerial counter attack. He can spam f-airs quickly if he wants, but like his other aerials, they are easily shielded and punished. Still, that doesn't mean you assume the R.O.B. will only camp. If you can, try to goad the R.O.B. into mounting an offensive. Should this succeed, your aerials and aerial spin charge (ASC) should tear him apart.

Most likely though, R.O.B. will try to camp you out. He will probably be sitting on the stage a good distance from you, but if the stage is smaller he might feel safe only when hogging the ledge where he can hop and spam projectiles from. The latter is more common against characters that cannot tangle with R.O.B. off stage. Sonic, however, can play very aggressively against this sort of camping with relatively little risk to himself. Your biggest friends here are springs and d-airs. Springs will obviously keep you out of harms way, and d-airs, when properly timed, will be extremely difficult for R.O.B. to counter. U-airs are also possible as is stage spiking with your b-air. Your biggest concern once you get close to R.O.B. is his f-air spamming. As long as you make sure these don't push you back out you should be fine.

The more "bread and butter" play-style though is to simply stay on the stage, power up gyros and blast lasers. Although you can shield the lasers easily and catch the gyros with f-air, air-dodging, and pick it up with with your dash attack, you will need to mount an offensive at some point. Running straight into R.O.B. to capitalize on projectile lag may seem like the right thing to do at first, but that will only lead you to a world of problems. First, R.O.B. is very good at dodging and then down-smashing. Simple though it may be, this alone will stop a huge bulk of your attacks on a regular basis. Second, R.O.B.'s close hand game overall can be astonishingly fast. His whiffed grabs are quickly over, his d-tilt is good at shield-locking, and his f-tilt has decent speed and range (though not as good as yours). In fact, one of the only things that Sonic has that consistently beats all of this is his ASC and, to a lesser extent, side-b hop.

The reason these two are so effective is that a majority of R.O.B.'s moves have a blind spot right where his face is. The only way for him to cover this blind spot effectively is to angle a f-smash or short-hop something, which you should be able to spot before you commit to your attack. This is one time where spin canceling will actually be useful for baiting attacks. Of course, the very nature of baiting means that the initial opening is created by the defender, not the attacker. If you cannot get used to this often lengthy process of mind-gaming you will likely lose.

Two general things to note when playing against R.O.B. are that:
1) He is very vulnerable from below. You should be able to juggle him with u-air without much problem. As an added benefit, R.O.B. is slightly more vulnerable to vertical KOs than he is to horizontal KOs. Tie this in with the fact that he is poor at killing people over the top, and you realize that stages with low ceilings are much to your advantage.
2) While R.O.B. tends to use his ridiculously long recovery to simply beast through most characters' edge-guarding, he does not do so well against Sonic. If you account for the homing attack (HA) being able to block off an above stage recovery, you are basically left with a below the stage game that involves you continually pushing out R.O.B. so that he steadily uses up his fuel and eventually cannot up-b anymore. D-air spiking and b-air stage spiking are your friends here. Realize also that if R.O.B. is in his up-b state it takes him a second to be able to attack meaning there will be even greater lag in his aerial defense.
 

MalcolmM

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I like the write up. Seems pretty on-point.

I honestly didnt kno sonic's ftilt outranges ROBs. I will have to add that in my vs rob game.

I do think that the write up should give sonic strategies or "safer" moves against him considering he is so different from the rest of the cast. Stuff like the fair nair and up air are actually decent approaches against him because of his height and the chance that one of the multiple hits will hit even if he spotdodges. Also Sonic's downsmash is pretty vital in this since its another spot dodge or roll punisher.
Another thing ive begun doing against ROB is holding the A button rather than doing the jab combo. This is effective (in my matches) because sonic doesnt actually start the jab combo until he hits someone if you hold A so it is yet another spot dodge punisher.

But yeah...other than that I was feelin it.

Oh and i did re-read and saw you had things like bair against the stage and his abusing his recovery quirks, but I was referring to more on-stage against rob.
 

TwinkleToes

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Hm, it's pretty long already, but I think we can afford to make this at least as long as the MK entry given how much trouble R.O.B. gives a lot of Sonic mains.

I don't like the rapid jab with Sonic because unlike with Snake the range is so short that you can basically do anything else instead and be just as effective in punishing a dodge. If someone were to find a combo out of Sonic's jab I might revisit that idea but for now I think d-smashing is a much better choice.
 
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