Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
I was about to say something about how Olimar can get more than 3 hits... but no, you are right. That is pretty funny. ^_^
-
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Weekly Character Discussion: Dedede
- Thread starter LeeHarris
- Start date
LeeHarris
Smash Lord
Dedede is a character that demonstrates the significance of match ups in Brawl. He can do so well against many of the top tier characters, but you can find counters for him all across the tier list.
DDD's physics are part of what makes him so great. He is very heavy and hard to kill with good DI. He is also one of the fastest fallers in the game, which combined with his multiple jumps makes for an amazing ability to edgeguard.
His throws make up a strong part of his game. Down throw is an amazing chaingrab on over half the cast and an infinite on five characters. Down throw will also set DDD up for a follow up, often an f-tilt or an unexpected dash attack. His back throw does a massive 16% damage as well.
DDD has a strange combination of moves. His smashes are so slow that they seem impossible to use at first. You quickly learn, however, that they have deceiving range and are quite hard to punish. Long range moves like his f-tilt, dair, and uair are great for racking up damage. Others like his bair, fair, dtilt, are surprisingly quick and very powerful. His utilt can kill light characters very easily and it is quicker than his up smash.
His recovery has its ups and downs (no pun intended). It is quick and travels far, allowing DDD to make it back from nearly any hit. On the other hand, it has a set trajectory until you cancel it and it is punishable by many characters.
To paraphrase G-reg:
DDD's physics are part of what makes him so great. He is very heavy and hard to kill with good DI. He is also one of the fastest fallers in the game, which combined with his multiple jumps makes for an amazing ability to edgeguard.
His throws make up a strong part of his game. Down throw is an amazing chaingrab on over half the cast and an infinite on five characters. Down throw will also set DDD up for a follow up, often an f-tilt or an unexpected dash attack. His back throw does a massive 16% damage as well.
DDD has a strange combination of moves. His smashes are so slow that they seem impossible to use at first. You quickly learn, however, that they have deceiving range and are quite hard to punish. Long range moves like his f-tilt, dair, and uair are great for racking up damage. Others like his bair, fair, dtilt, are surprisingly quick and very powerful. His utilt can kill light characters very easily and it is quicker than his up smash.
His recovery has its ups and downs (no pun intended). It is quick and travels far, allowing DDD to make it back from nearly any hit. On the other hand, it has a set trajectory until you cancel it and it is punishable by many characters.
To paraphrase G-reg:
And one more thing: Carlos Mencia is a terrible comedian.
DoH
meleeitonme.tumblr.com
DDD is my new main; he's got some really cool properties when he attacks, how he contorts his body that can be used to evade attacks since he's so huge, kind of like Peach's fsmash/downtilt in melee.
His nair is really fast and great out of shield, when auto canceled into a down tilt it's great for poking; his bair has a ton of range and can be used as a sort of WoP when you get off the edge. I think DDD has a ton of fun counterpicks, like Japes, Green Greens, Brinstar, Mario Circuit, Pirate ship, and Port Town
His nair is really fast and great out of shield, when auto canceled into a down tilt it's great for poking; his bair has a ton of range and can be used as a sort of WoP when you get off the edge. I think DDD has a ton of fun counterpicks, like Japes, Green Greens, Brinstar, Mario Circuit, Pirate ship, and Port Town
generally speaking olimar gets more than just 3 hit combos at the lower percents especially on the big guys but it's still just funny hahaha
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Step it up, Lee! This is almost a week behind!
LeeHarris
Smash Lord
Ok, so I like edited it 3 times and it won't go. what the crape.
I'll post it again tomorrow when I'm back on my work comp.
I'll post it again tomorrow when I'm back on my work comp.
LeeHarris
Smash Lord
Ok, it's up. Gogo
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
My apologies. I've been gone for the last few days, because I had my brother change my password to SWF so I couldn't distract myself from studying for the MCAT (which I just finished last Friday). Anyways, time to actually move this.
Everything after this post is general discussion.
Everything after this post is general discussion.
highandmightyjoe
Smash Ace
DeDeDe is my main and I love him. I feel as though he is the most defensive character in brawl, which suits me just fine. Between his heavy weight and long(though admittedly punishable) recovery he is very hard to kill with good DI, he also has a fairly good projectile and long ranged attacks that give him a solid range advantage over many opponents. But most importantly is his grab game. Best grab game in Brawl period.
To start with his grab has great range, and since I already said that I feel he is a very defensive character sheildgrabbing pretty much comes natural to him. Then of course you have the great chaingrab, and his forward and back throws both do good damage. It was already mentioned that they won't be getting kills unless the opponent doesn't DI but they are still effective for racking damage. On stages that have walls its pretty much game over once he gets a grab. He can chain as long as he wants then end it with an Utilt for the kill, which in my experience is inescapable, at least I've not seen it escaped before.
Another important thing to mention is his swallowcide. I think alot of people underestimate just how easy this move is to land, and once you have them swallowed its pretty hard for them to break out. And even if you don't suicide its still a solid move for punishing certain actions with 10% damage.
Someone mentioned earlier that he had trouble approaching but I don't think its really all that bad. He can use Ftilt for certain characters and RAR'd Bairs against others. The only real problem is with characters with better projectiles than him, which admittedly there are a good number of. But alot of projectiles, like the blasters for example can be meat shielded with waddle dee's.
Finally, DeDeDe is great at killing. Alot of people look at his devastating Fsmash and think thats what his kills are like, strong and slow, but he has some surprisingly fast kill move. Most importantly is his Utilt, but he can also score some kills with Dtilt too if its fresh and that move has deceptively long range. He can also get kills with his dash attack at ridiculously low damage, and his beastly edgeguarding should be a pretty obvious choice for the kill. Also I think that Gordo is the only projectile left that can score kills now that Samus' charge shot is weaker.
Alltogether I think DeDeDe is a great character with alot of strengths, his only real weakness is some bad matchups against characters that can outspam him, but most of them can be taken care of with the right counterpick stage. His recovery is easy to punish but you should really be able to recover with just his multiple jumps until he gets to really high damage. And most importantly as someone has already stated, he has a good matchup against Snake. That should be enough for high tier on its own.
I don't think he has quite enough good matchups to make top but I do feel he has a place in the high tier.
To start with his grab has great range, and since I already said that I feel he is a very defensive character sheildgrabbing pretty much comes natural to him. Then of course you have the great chaingrab, and his forward and back throws both do good damage. It was already mentioned that they won't be getting kills unless the opponent doesn't DI but they are still effective for racking damage. On stages that have walls its pretty much game over once he gets a grab. He can chain as long as he wants then end it with an Utilt for the kill, which in my experience is inescapable, at least I've not seen it escaped before.
Another important thing to mention is his swallowcide. I think alot of people underestimate just how easy this move is to land, and once you have them swallowed its pretty hard for them to break out. And even if you don't suicide its still a solid move for punishing certain actions with 10% damage.
Someone mentioned earlier that he had trouble approaching but I don't think its really all that bad. He can use Ftilt for certain characters and RAR'd Bairs against others. The only real problem is with characters with better projectiles than him, which admittedly there are a good number of. But alot of projectiles, like the blasters for example can be meat shielded with waddle dee's.
Finally, DeDeDe is great at killing. Alot of people look at his devastating Fsmash and think thats what his kills are like, strong and slow, but he has some surprisingly fast kill move. Most importantly is his Utilt, but he can also score some kills with Dtilt too if its fresh and that move has deceptively long range. He can also get kills with his dash attack at ridiculously low damage, and his beastly edgeguarding should be a pretty obvious choice for the kill. Also I think that Gordo is the only projectile left that can score kills now that Samus' charge shot is weaker.
Alltogether I think DeDeDe is a great character with alot of strengths, his only real weakness is some bad matchups against characters that can outspam him, but most of them can be taken care of with the right counterpick stage. His recovery is easy to punish but you should really be able to recover with just his multiple jumps until he gets to really high damage. And most importantly as someone has already stated, he has a good matchup against Snake. That should be enough for high tier on its own.
I don't think he has quite enough good matchups to make top but I do feel he has a place in the high tier.
Doggalina
Smash Lord
I love short hopping Dairs with DDD. That move has a great hitbox and does great damage. It's my number 1 damaging move with DDD. I also love walking and f-tilting; it's simple poking, but it really pisses off my opponent.
Oh, and I love the Waddle Doos (the laser ones). They've saved me from getting ***** many times.
Oh, and I love the Waddle Doos (the laser ones). They've saved me from getting ***** many times.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Gettng trapped by waddle doo-> fsmash is too good. Now whenever i plaay D3s, i make sure to kill the waddle doos xD
BigRick
Smash Master
This.
Also DDD has a good surprise edgeguard on that level... use the catapult to launch yourself into your opponent. DDD's size and weight makes him a deadly projectile!!!I concur with Pirate Ship being amazing for Dedede. He doesn't die, and you do.</personal experience>
BigRick
Smash Master
short hopping dairs is risky since you get landing lag
safe option would be to full hop cross up dair...
after that you can mix it up with a dbl jump dair or just land and grab/spotdodge grab
GhettoSheep
Smash Journeyman
^Instead of doing a full hopped one you could always do a instant double jump rising dair. This hits low enough to the ground to hit a crouching Kirby AND, it auto-cancels which is really sick
alphawolf900
Smash Rookie
i have a quick question
can DDD auto sweetspot the edge with his up b
is so how does he do it cause i cant seem to do it
can DDD auto sweetspot the edge with his up b
is so how does he do it cause i cant seem to do it
Doggalina
Smash Lord
You have to cancel his Up-B by clicking down on the control stick. Cancel it right by the ledge, and it's essentially an autosweetspot.
thesultan2112
Smash Apprentice
i never use dairs, unless i'm falling on someone with serious priotry, i perfer the bair's allot more (but so does everyone else i bet) in any situation
talkingbeatles
Smash Ace
I played my DDD, which is not great, but admittedly not bad, in fact, it might just be good,
against a mediocre Falco and got killed.
He was super defensive and spammed lasers like it was something you do with Falco, or whatever.
Is this considered a bad match up for DDD?
against a mediocre Falco and got killed.
He was super defensive and spammed lasers like it was something you do with Falco, or whatever.
Is this considered a bad match up for DDD?
TheSMASHtyke
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2008
- Messages
- 380
Dedede is so hard to kill. He has the multiple jumps (even though there VERY small) and that gigantic up-B. It doesn't even matter if he needs to travel a long horizontal distance, he can just fall and rise thanks to the length of his jump. The super armor just seems to be the cherry on top.
Not to mention the fact you'll have a hard time getting him off the stage in the first place. He's a really freaking heavy character who always seems to have the more powerful KO and launching moves. One little mistake against him and you might find yourself being blasted by his ridiculous forward smash or end up being sat on repeatedly by his chain throw. While you’re enjoying your nice trip on the ground, feel free to enjoy the little red kirbies popping out of his sleeves that always block your attacks. Even better when one comes out with a giant eye ball with laser vision; and who could forget Mr. Instant 22%?
I personally like Dedede, but I don't like playing against him. He's easily up with the ranks of Meta and Snake for best character in the game.
Not to mention the fact you'll have a hard time getting him off the stage in the first place. He's a really freaking heavy character who always seems to have the more powerful KO and launching moves. One little mistake against him and you might find yourself being blasted by his ridiculous forward smash or end up being sat on repeatedly by his chain throw. While you’re enjoying your nice trip on the ground, feel free to enjoy the little red kirbies popping out of his sleeves that always block your attacks. Even better when one comes out with a giant eye ball with laser vision; and who could forget Mr. Instant 22%?
I personally like Dedede, but I don't like playing against him. He's easily up with the ranks of Meta and Snake for best character in the game.
alphawolf900
Smash Rookie
and DDD has a great advantage in many stages
those with very high ceilings and far wallsgive him great survivability
and those with walls or stages where the you CG of the side for a kill are good too
i dont think there are to many stages to counterpick with
those with very high ceilings and far wallsgive him great survivability
and those with walls or stages where the you CG of the side for a kill are good too
i dont think there are to many stages to counterpick with
soroush123
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 14, 2004
- Messages
- 1,421
Few things:
1. Can we make a list of DDD's best levels? I can't find a list of what levels have low.high ceilings or walls anyway. But it would be important to know other levels that are good too (I heard Norfair, which is a plus for DDD)
2. MK, what the heck. The tornado is amazing v DDD and only his slow Dsmash breaks it. Aslo, MKs Dsmash comes out to fast for any of DDDs moves to stop (even after a spotdodge) and pushes him too far for a grab if you shield it.
3. Carlos Mencia would not play DDD. He would play Kirby so he could steal other people's jo...err I mean moves.
1. Can we make a list of DDD's best levels? I can't find a list of what levels have low.high ceilings or walls anyway. But it would be important to know other levels that are good too (I heard Norfair, which is a plus for DDD)
2. MK, what the heck. The tornado is amazing v DDD and only his slow Dsmash breaks it. Aslo, MKs Dsmash comes out to fast for any of DDDs moves to stop (even after a spotdodge) and pushes him too far for a grab if you shield it.
3. Carlos Mencia would not play DDD. He would play Kirby so he could steal other people's jo...err I mean moves.
FlashGearz
Smash Apprentice
Almost everything about him makes him great, but since every say the good thing, I'll say some bad things that keep him from top tier.
-Size and speed. Size makes him an easy target to thiings like Falcos laser, Grenades,Pit Arrows, and other Dedede's Waddle Ds. Speed hurts how well he can close that distance so his Waddle ds block out some of the projectiles. This isn't a huge weakness, but it's somthing that Sake, Metaknight, and Falco can do better.
-Approch. He has a pretty hard time approching some characters, because his dash attack is slow, Waddle ds come out rather slow, and as always aerials are pretty bad in most cases to use. Bair is an exception, but eventually will get somewhat predictable. Jet hammer rushing is a fun surprise for a quick hit, but will only work once or twice and only works so well.
And last
- His match up chart. At best, be has neutral against The higher tier characters. His good match ups are on lower tier characters excluding wolf. The only good thing is he get many neutral match ups on alot of important characters(This is based on the character match up chart, and various tier list i've seen)
-Size and speed. Size makes him an easy target to thiings like Falcos laser, Grenades,Pit Arrows, and other Dedede's Waddle Ds. Speed hurts how well he can close that distance so his Waddle ds block out some of the projectiles. This isn't a huge weakness, but it's somthing that Sake, Metaknight, and Falco can do better.
-Approch. He has a pretty hard time approching some characters, because his dash attack is slow, Waddle ds come out rather slow, and as always aerials are pretty bad in most cases to use. Bair is an exception, but eventually will get somewhat predictable. Jet hammer rushing is a fun surprise for a quick hit, but will only work once or twice and only works so well.
And last
- His match up chart. At best, be has neutral against The higher tier characters. His good match ups are on lower tier characters excluding wolf. The only good thing is he get many neutral match ups on alot of important characters(This is based on the character match up chart, and various tier list i've seen)
I tried playing Dedede for a while, but eventually got fed up with him for two reasons:
1: Piss poor horizontal mobility, both in the air and on the ground. He accelerates fairly slowly, and doesn't get up to a very good clip. This makes him very poor against projectile spam, and hampers his approach, especially against campers who easily outmaneuver him. In general, he's a character that has to get his opponent to come to him, and only then does he shine.
2: Relatively one-dimensional playstyle. Granted, it's a deadly effective way to play the game, and gives him a strong advantage over most of the cast, but it still is not incredibly malleable. The one-dimensionality of his game leads to a match-up chart that pretty much looks like:
Characters Dedede can infinite - Excellent
Characters Dedede can CG - Good
One or two characters Dedede can't CG - Neutral
Everyone else - Bad or worse
Even then, Dedede's weakness against spammers makes some characters harder to CG than others. Try CGing a Snake that leaves grenades and proximity mines everywhere. Or a Samus that won't stop using that cursed Z-air. Good luck getting close to Pit with all of those Arrows.
All in all, Dedede is a devastating character, well deserving of a high tier spot, but he has a few distinct weaknesses that make his success incredibly match-up dependent, so he could never be top tier.
1: Piss poor horizontal mobility, both in the air and on the ground. He accelerates fairly slowly, and doesn't get up to a very good clip. This makes him very poor against projectile spam, and hampers his approach, especially against campers who easily outmaneuver him. In general, he's a character that has to get his opponent to come to him, and only then does he shine.
2: Relatively one-dimensional playstyle. Granted, it's a deadly effective way to play the game, and gives him a strong advantage over most of the cast, but it still is not incredibly malleable. The one-dimensionality of his game leads to a match-up chart that pretty much looks like:
Characters Dedede can infinite - Excellent
Characters Dedede can CG - Good
One or two characters Dedede can't CG - Neutral
Everyone else - Bad or worse
Even then, Dedede's weakness against spammers makes some characters harder to CG than others. Try CGing a Snake that leaves grenades and proximity mines everywhere. Or a Samus that won't stop using that cursed Z-air. Good luck getting close to Pit with all of those Arrows.
All in all, Dedede is a devastating character, well deserving of a high tier spot, but he has a few distinct weaknesses that make his success incredibly match-up dependent, so he could never be top tier.
gyzmo392
Smash Rookie
his chain grab is godly and even characters he cant CG you can still down throw and and ftilt and that gets them all the time. his projectile is good to spam for two reasons:
1. it blocks most projectiles even on ground (good against falco laser spam)
2. its worth it when you throw the killing one.
fair is great if you get the time down.
i dont need to describe how fantastic his fsmash is other than its godly with ice.
and there is nothing more satisfies you more than when a waddle dee sneaks up and body slams your enemy
dedede for the win
1. it blocks most projectiles even on ground (good against falco laser spam)
2. its worth it when you throw the killing one.
fair is great if you get the time down.
i dont need to describe how fantastic his fsmash is other than its godly with ice.
and there is nothing more satisfies you more than when a waddle dee sneaks up and body slams your enemy
dedede for the win
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
Hey guys, come check out the waddle thread and help me compile some knowledge on them for everybody!
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176691
you know you wanna! ^_^
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=176691
you know you wanna! ^_^
Browny
Smash Hater
how do dedede users recover with thier upb, i mean like do you cancel it at some stage of the jump, space it perfectly so it cancels at the ledge of just fall to the ground. playing against smart opponents makes me feel like theres nothing i can do that doesnt end up in eating an fsmash as soon as i land. a few days ago i was testing which characters upsmashes go straight through dedede's up b, and everyone does... but even more than that, most characters fsmashes can also punch him right out of upb. seriously, even sonic can full charge fsmash and take no damage when dedede doesnt cancel the upb.
is this well known, or is there a simple way to avoid this i just havent found yet >_>
is this well known, or is there a simple way to avoid this i just havent found yet >_>
FlashGearz
Smash Apprentice
I'm not sure what is the best way but I ether
-If they hanging on ledge without invincibility, then UpB and aim for the ledge. then AS SOON AS YOU HIT THEM, cancel. You'll spike the hell out of them, then grab the ledge
-If they hanging of ledge, Up be, get as high as you can, then cancel and movee as far away as possible.
-If they are in the air moving around or somthing, I just aim for them. Or if they are far enoguh from the edge, I cancel and grab the ledge.
- Other then that, try not to use this that often.
-If they hanging on ledge without invincibility, then UpB and aim for the ledge. then AS SOON AS YOU HIT THEM, cancel. You'll spike the hell out of them, then grab the ledge
-If they hanging of ledge, Up be, get as high as you can, then cancel and movee as far away as possible.
-If they are in the air moving around or somthing, I just aim for them. Or if they are far enoguh from the edge, I cancel and grab the ledge.
- Other then that, try not to use this that often.
Utilt gets MK's tornado too. I feel like there's another move, but it doesn't matter bc Utilts pretty fast.
Psychotic Penguin
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2008
- Messages
- 71
how do dedede users recover with thier upb, i mean like do you cancel it at some stage of the jump, space it perfectly so it cancels at the ledge of just fall to the ground. playing against smart opponents makes me feel like theres nothing i can do that doesnt end up in eating an fsmash as soon as i land. a few days ago i was testing which characters upsmashes go straight through dedede's up b, and everyone does... but even more than that, most characters fsmashes can also punch him right out of upb. seriously, even sonic can full charge fsmash and take no damage when dedede doesnt cancel the upb.
is this well known, or is there a simple way to avoid this i just havent found yet >_>
This is true and I like to stay away from it on 1-on-1 battles, but I do try to use it to hit two players in a battle. It is also good for recovering.
Thanks for the tip FlashGearz.
I tested some moves against MK's tornado and found out that the Dtilt, Fspecial, Dspecial, and Fsmash stop MK's tornado.
is this well known, or is there a simple way to avoid this i just havent found yet >_>
This is true and I like to stay away from it on 1-on-1 battles, but I do try to use it to hit two players in a battle. It is also good for recovering.
Thanks for the tip FlashGearz.
I tested some moves against MK's tornado and found out that the Dtilt, Fspecial, Dspecial, and Fsmash stop MK's tornado.
He's always been a video game character I've been fond of since Kirby's Adventure so I would have wanted to use him no matter what, but usually in any game I never really hit it off too well with heavier power based characters but Dedede's been an exception. He's got a great mix of durability and power with defensive based attacks that are deceptively quick including that amazing grab range, a couple of offensive moves, a somewhat multi purpose projectile, and really comfy feeling maneuverability both in the air and on the ground (not speed, just maneuverability. He feels a lot easier to move around than the other heavys to me.)
Even if he didn't have that chaingrab I think he still would have been a pretty good guy.
Even if he didn't have that chaingrab I think he still would have been a pretty good guy.
Brawlmatt202
Smash Champion
I really hope King Dedede doesn't become one of those characters you see all the time at tournaments, because he's too cool for that.
Fogo
Smash Shinigami
Hey, check out my D3 vid thread, any suggestions guys?
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186384
http://smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=186384
M@v
Subarashii!
King DDD is definately one of the best. The CG, if done right, is inescapable. You have to Sheild a grab after the initial throw. It has to be fast though, fast enough your shield doesnt come up long at all. It makes DDD to a sliding standing grab, which has more range than his running grab.
For characters that can't be CG'd, Dthrow-ftilt works great. His bair is one of, if not the best, bair in the game. You can WoP enemies right off the stage and to their deaths. Its great for approaches and for edgeguarding. DDD's tilts are amazing, Utilt is almost as strong as snakes. Ftilt got mad range. DDD's Fsmash is like Snakes RPG and ike's fsmash, its one of those moves that can pretty much crush anything, but its so slow your will only hit with a lucky shot usually.
Waddle Dee spam is great. It provides a safe apporach from many projectiles, such as the space animals blasters. Random Gordo is always a pleasant suprise, but it can be reflected. And DDD's vertical recovery...wow, just wow. DDD is Top/high tier, along with G&W and falco, and only trumped by MK and Snake(who DDD is decent against
)
For characters that can't be CG'd, Dthrow-ftilt works great. His bair is one of, if not the best, bair in the game. You can WoP enemies right off the stage and to their deaths. Its great for approaches and for edgeguarding. DDD's tilts are amazing, Utilt is almost as strong as snakes. Ftilt got mad range. DDD's Fsmash is like Snakes RPG and ike's fsmash, its one of those moves that can pretty much crush anything, but its so slow your will only hit with a lucky shot usually.
Waddle Dee spam is great. It provides a safe apporach from many projectiles, such as the space animals blasters. Random Gordo is always a pleasant suprise, but it can be reflected. And DDD's vertical recovery...wow, just wow. DDD is Top/high tier, along with G&W and falco, and only trumped by MK and Snake(who DDD is decent against
)mimic_king
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,002
D3 is probably the best slow character in the SSB series. He is the only one who has a projectile. He has goonfarming, which although is hard to, it can be useful. He also has a rapid attack at the end of his A combo, and is the only slow character to have one. His up b is kind of hard to control though, and if it hits a ceiling, then it will cancel. His swallow is good for a suicidal KO in those tough times. His down B is quite powerful, although once it is fully charged it gradually deals damage to you. He also has multiple jumps. He has the strongest forward smash in the game, although it is incredibly hard to hit someone with.
Overall D3 is amazing, and if you say otherwise, than you are crazy.
Overall D3 is amazing, and if you say otherwise, than you are crazy.
Affinity
Smash Hero
mimic_king
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Jun 25, 2008
- Messages
- 1,002
oh yeah. didn't know about that. goonfarming wasn't too useful anyway
wow just because someone proves you wrong you changed your answer.