LeeHarris
Smash Lord
I haven't seen many players using him in the Southwest, but I've seen videos of M2K and many others wrecking people left and right with him. I'll admit that he is one my least well known characters.
Oye!
Oye!
-
Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!
You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!
Weekly Character Discussion: Dedede
- Thread starter LeeHarris
- Start date
D1
Banned via Administration
Bthrow-16%
Dthrow CG on mad chars...some chars he's able to end it w/ a dtilt kill O_o.
...chars that he can't CG...just spam bthrow on 'em over and over.
once they're in killing range or off the stage...bair/fair edgeguards.
UpB super armor on the way up...as he's coming down you can hit him from the side...or as he lands block the slam and starz and punish...
...ridiculous grab range...
Utilt has invincibility? It kills really well.
Swallowcides are beneficial when you're about to lose your stock and your opponent isn't in killing range. LOL
Dair is a great combo starter at low percents.
Ftilt's range is great and it combos into dthrows on certain chars.
Bair at low percent sometimes causes tripping allowing you to get a grab on the opponent and either start CGing or just bthrow/fthrow.
Nair isn't used as much as it should be...good combo move as well.
Fair's range is unpredictably awesome...great killing move/combo move.
Down B charged is awesome as well.
Even tho ppl say he sucks in teams...IMO I think thats only cuz he's a big target...he makes team infinites so much easier w/ his dthrow...I've seen teams of DDD n MK in NYC where the MK would dtilt and DDD would dthrow and they'd rinse and repeat.
Definitely a contender...DDD shouldn't be slept on and IMO is high/top tier material. He has an extremely gay dodge...T___T...lol his dash attack and fsmash are so embarassing to get hit by and the range on those moves are pretty **** awesome not to mention the knockback...DDD is gay tier.
Dthrow CG on mad chars...some chars he's able to end it w/ a dtilt kill O_o.
...chars that he can't CG...just spam bthrow on 'em over and over.
once they're in killing range or off the stage...bair/fair edgeguards.
UpB super armor on the way up...as he's coming down you can hit him from the side...or as he lands block the slam and starz and punish...
...ridiculous grab range...
Utilt has invincibility? It kills really well.
Swallowcides are beneficial when you're about to lose your stock and your opponent isn't in killing range. LOL
Dair is a great combo starter at low percents.
Ftilt's range is great and it combos into dthrows on certain chars.
Bair at low percent sometimes causes tripping allowing you to get a grab on the opponent and either start CGing or just bthrow/fthrow.
Nair isn't used as much as it should be...good combo move as well.
Fair's range is unpredictably awesome...great killing move/combo move.
Down B charged is awesome as well.
Even tho ppl say he sucks in teams...IMO I think thats only cuz he's a big target...he makes team infinites so much easier w/ his dthrow...I've seen teams of DDD n MK in NYC where the MK would dtilt and DDD would dthrow and they'd rinse and repeat.
Definitely a contender...DDD shouldn't be slept on and IMO is high/top tier material. He has an extremely gay dodge...T___T...lol his dash attack and fsmash are so embarassing to get hit by and the range on those moves are pretty **** awesome not to mention the knockback...DDD is gay tier.
Inhale and Fsmash are my two favorite moves in the game, they're godly.
Inhale always stops shield and spot dodge abusers in their tracks, 10% damage isn't too shabby. Not to mention how easy it is to get Dededecide kills with inhale, it's pretty common to get one in a match, people never seem to see it coming.
Fsmash is so spammable it makes me happy. The range is long enough that they can't roll behind you to take advantage of a miss and if they try to dodge it they usually end up getting hit by it. Even if they shield it takes away like 50% of a shield. The ending animation is fast enough so that they usually can't punish you for it either, so nice.
I'll say more later, but now I want tacos.
Inhale always stops shield and spot dodge abusers in their tracks, 10% damage isn't too shabby. Not to mention how easy it is to get Dededecide kills with inhale, it's pretty common to get one in a match, people never seem to see it coming.
Fsmash is so spammable it makes me happy. The range is long enough that they can't roll behind you to take advantage of a miss and if they try to dodge it they usually end up getting hit by it. Even if they shield it takes away like 50% of a shield. The ending animation is fast enough so that they usually can't punish you for it either, so nice.
I'll say more later, but now I want tacos.
the_suicide_fox
Smash Champion
I say we ban him.
/stupidity
Seriously though, DDD is among the best characters in the game. Great camper with those **** waddle dee's, not to mention his crazy grab range and powerful throws. His aerials are insane, especially his dair and bair.
Not to mention he has the most annoying taunt in the game, his crouch. It's not even a friggin taunt and it aggrivates me >.<
Stupid giant penguin, with a giant hammer...
/stupidity
Seriously though, DDD is among the best characters in the game. Great camper with those **** waddle dee's, not to mention his crazy grab range and powerful throws. His aerials are insane, especially his dair and bair.
Not to mention he has the most annoying taunt in the game, his crouch. It's not even a friggin taunt and it aggrivates me >.<
Stupid giant penguin, with a giant hammer...
I'unno. I've never not three stocked a Dedede. Characters with decent projectiles seem to have a relatively easy time against the big lug.
However I most digress that he is one of the best characters in the game at this point. He has a great projectile game considering. His attacks are strong and still relatively fast. Very nice recovery that's hard to gimp. And his physics remind me of Samus' back in Melee, probably the best physics in the game if you're simply trying to remain among the living.
However I most digress that he is one of the best characters in the game at this point. He has a great projectile game considering. His attacks are strong and still relatively fast. Very nice recovery that's hard to gimp. And his physics remind me of Samus' back in Melee, probably the best physics in the game if you're simply trying to remain among the living.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
You doing these now?
D3 is definitely a good character, but he has some really hard character counters. Like Undr said, projectiles do really well against him. Stages also can cause a lot of trouble; Luigi's Mansion is pretty bad for this guy.
D3 is definitely a good character, but he has some really hard character counters. Like Undr said, projectiles do really well against him. Stages also can cause a lot of trouble; Luigi's Mansion is pretty bad for this guy.
LeeHarris
Smash Lord
I think DDD's projectile game is ok, but not great. The oompa loompas come out very slow and they travel slow as well.
How do his physics remind you of Samus? DDD is the 2nd fastest faller in the game
DDD seems to be one of the easiest characters to play against with Samus. He is so fat that it seems I never miss an aerial when I go for it and it always follows through till the last hit. I think that may be one of his biggest disadvantages.
Arash
Smash Lord
dedede is dependent both on the opponent's char and the stage. dthrow is just that good
also, against a lot of chars you can camp the ledge and keep fair-ing the spot above the ledge
that said, a good projectile camper will annoy the hell out of him, and fast chars like metaknight and fox can annoy him anyway. he should probably stay in the air to use his good air moves.
he'll probably end up in the top 1/4th of chars, but not top 5 material sadly
also, against a lot of chars you can camp the ledge and keep fair-ing the spot above the ledge
that said, a good projectile camper will annoy the hell out of him, and fast chars like metaknight and fox can annoy him anyway. he should probably stay in the air to use his good air moves.
he'll probably end up in the top 1/4th of chars, but not top 5 material sadly
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
Can someone please clear up something for me? I've never played against a D3 that could CG me without me jabbing or spotdodging every time. But other people (namely Cort) have said that if you play a good D3, then the CG is inescapable.
Is that true at all? Its been bugging me for awhile now.
Is that true at all? Its been bugging me for awhile now.
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
What I meant by physics are, hitting the guy is like hitting a Medicine Ball that his the physics of a Beach Ball. Meaning hard to kill off the sides. I suppose I should've been a little less vague then comparing him to Melee Samus.
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
Yeah, uh, the guy who made the demonstrational video is actually a good friend of mine. A few days after he made the video, I completely forgot and played DK against his D3. That wasn't fun.
But that doesn't actually answer my question ^_^''
HyugaRicdeau
Baller/Shot-caller
Well to my understanding that list is of characters that DDD can CG/infinite inescapably, assuming both people are frame perfect, to the best of anyone's knowledge. I.e. it is only as valid to the degree that we can test things being frame perfect or not. Some characters have to be pummelled in between grabs sometimes, I know Luigi is one for the infinite, but I don't know the precise details.
dedede is good because he is good vs snake lol
also he is good because he is good.
chaingrab is too good, range is too good, kill percents is too good, the percents he lives too is too good, his edgeguard game is too good, his recovery is too good, his priority is too good, his grab range is too good, his spotdodge is too good....
etc etc etc
dedede is good. yep.
*note: too good does not actually mean too good lol
also he is good because he is good.
chaingrab is too good, range is too good, kill percents is too good, the percents he lives too is too good, his edgeguard game is too good, his recovery is too good, his priority is too good, his grab range is too good, his spotdodge is too good....
etc etc etc
dedede is good. yep.
*note: too good does not actually mean too good lol
I believe it's 5 characters that can be chaingrabbed infinitely by D3.
DK
Mario
Luigi
Samus
Bowser
Bowser you actually have to move forward a tiny tiny bit, but it is so small that it's almost negligible. I think after 5 throws, you have to start jabbing to reduce the decay so that you can grab them again, which is weird to me.
D3 as a character looks very promising. Though I don't play this character, and I really don't know much about him. I have seen him doing well in many tournaments and the fact that he can chaingrab so many characters and has a 16% Bthrow is amazing. His edgeguarding is top notch, he has a plethora of kill moves, and is ****ing HEAVY. If you don't play carefully vs DeDeDe then....I'm sorry.
DK
Mario
Luigi
Samus
Bowser
Bowser you actually have to move forward a tiny tiny bit, but it is so small that it's almost negligible. I think after 5 throws, you have to start jabbing to reduce the decay so that you can grab them again, which is weird to me.
D3 as a character looks very promising. Though I don't play this character, and I really don't know much about him. I have seen him doing well in many tournaments and the fact that he can chaingrab so many characters and has a 16% Bthrow is amazing. His edgeguarding is top notch, he has a plethora of kill moves, and is ****ing HEAVY. If you don't play carefully vs DeDeDe then....I'm sorry.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
You guys all said the good parts.
Dedede is a tough penguin. The only major weakness he has IMO is that he can't approach that well, but he really doesn't have to for the most part. F-tilt has good range and so does his grab. And Waddle Dees are annoying.
At close range though F-tilt seems to put him at disadvantage on hit and can SHed over with certain characters. Waddle Dees can be swatted away as well. So a smart aggressor can give Dedede a good fight. Also certain characters can camp him hard, so in these cases he would have to approach and then his weakness becomes more apparent.
He seems to be match-up heavy and stage dependent as previously stated.
Dedede is a tough penguin. The only major weakness he has IMO is that he can't approach that well, but he really doesn't have to for the most part. F-tilt has good range and so does his grab. And Waddle Dees are annoying.
At close range though F-tilt seems to put him at disadvantage on hit and can SHed over with certain characters. Waddle Dees can be swatted away as well. So a smart aggressor can give Dedede a good fight. Also certain characters can camp him hard, so in these cases he would have to approach and then his weakness becomes more apparent.
He seems to be match-up heavy and stage dependent as previously stated.
g-regulate
Smash Hero
yea DDD is awesome, what a monster of a character.
really strong moves and kill moves
really heavy, lives forever with good DI
great aerials
the chaingrab to end all chaingrabs
tremendous recovery, tough to punish
spectacular edgeguard game
considering that some characters dont even have a single one of those qualities, id put DDD at top tier along with snake and meta.
really strong moves and kill moves
really heavy, lives forever with good DI
great aerials
the chaingrab to end all chaingrabs
tremendous recovery, tough to punish
spectacular edgeguard game
considering that some characters dont even have a single one of those qualities, id put DDD at top tier along with snake and meta.
I love DDD's bair, it's very quick and fairly strong. Combine that with his multiple jumps and his recovery being amazing enough to allow for even the furthest pursuits off stage, and you get the offstage beast that is DDD. His air game in general is amazing. His nair has very little landing lag and as a result can lead into utilts.
I also love how good his forward smash is. I find myself randomly throwing it out at times (sometimes after a chaingrab instead of ending with an ftilt/fthrow), because if it connects with a shield it's pretty hard to punish. As long as you don't spam it so much that it gives your opponent multiple opportunities to punish you for it, the one time you land it will more than likely make up for the 2 or 3 times you get punished for it. It's a very intimidating move and when I see my opponent use it, my first instinct is to get the hell out of there.
His down-throw is unbelievably good. Chaingrabs, infinte chaingrabs, attack set-ups, team attack set-ups especially (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaqB89H4saY 2:40), I honestly don't see what Sakurai was thinking when he let that move go un-nerfed in testing.
Lastly, Carlos Mencia is a terrible comedian. DeeDeeDee jokes get a kick to the face.
I also love how good his forward smash is. I find myself randomly throwing it out at times (sometimes after a chaingrab instead of ending with an ftilt/fthrow), because if it connects with a shield it's pretty hard to punish. As long as you don't spam it so much that it gives your opponent multiple opportunities to punish you for it, the one time you land it will more than likely make up for the 2 or 3 times you get punished for it. It's a very intimidating move and when I see my opponent use it, my first instinct is to get the hell out of there.
His down-throw is unbelievably good. Chaingrabs, infinte chaingrabs, attack set-ups, team attack set-ups especially (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eaqB89H4saY 2:40), I honestly don't see what Sakurai was thinking when he let that move go un-nerfed in testing.
Lastly, Carlos Mencia is a terrible comedian. DeeDeeDee jokes get a kick to the face.
Maybe it's because I'm not good and all I know how to do in this game is jab repeatedly, but I like his jab. It does huge damage.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
LOL!!!
The only thing I don't like about Dedede is that you can only play him one way, since he can't approach to save his life. Other then that he is good. And tournaments indicate that he is top tier material.
The only thing I don't like about Dedede is that you can only play him one way, since he can't approach to save his life. Other then that he is good. And tournaments indicate that he is top tier material.
SamuraiPanda
Smash Hero
- Joined
- May 22, 2006
- Messages
- 6,924
Really? I thought that stage would be bad for him since one of his best KO attacks is the up-tilt, and JJ has the highest ceiling of any legal counterpick IIRC.
Personally, I enjoy counterpicking D3s with Norfair, since he's got like 2 down throws before he's out, and hitting him into the lava is quite easy.
Personally, I enjoy counterpicking D3s with Norfair, since he's got like 2 down throws before he's out, and hitting him into the lava is quite easy.
D
Deleted member
Guest
too bad this character is 95% roll/sidestep dodge into grab.
Pirate Ship is a good counterpick level for Dedede
Pictochat too
Pictochat too
- Joined
- Jun 3, 2003
- Messages
- 5,517
Enjoy ever even trying to approach a Dedede on that stage. It's near impossible. And utilt kills so well that hardly even matters.
waddledee's trip on nanas.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
I concur with Pirate Ship being amazing for Dedede. He doesn't die, and you do.
</personal experience>
Green Greens anyone?
Chaingrabbing against the blocks then throwing into a bomb = Scary.
Also, utilt. And his Bthrow kills off the side of the level at stupidly low %'s.
Chaingrabbing against the blocks then throwing into a bomb = Scary.
Also, utilt
. And his Bthrow kills off the side of the level at stupidly low %'s.
LeeHarris
Smash Lord
Dude, you gave away my secret!Green Greens anyone?
Chaingrabbing against the blocks then throwing into a bomb = Scary.
Also, utilt
D:
It's awesome though. I've never used it in tourney because I'm not a douche but you can destroy many fat characters with it.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
Any walled stage is just amazing for Dedede of course.
I always DI up and towards the stage to avoid throw kills from Dedede. His throws can kill if you DI poorly and you're close to the edge of the stage.
His u-tilt is just crazy like it's been stated before. The hitbox stays out quite a bit, it hits both in front of him and in back of him too.
Also...I hate Gordos. With a passion.
Played some friendlies with M2K's Dedede last week and EVERY game he would throw a Gordo right at the start of the match. I'm not joking.
Lost in tourney to a Dedede when it was last stock high damage. Threw a Gordo at me. GGPO Marth.
I cried.
I always DI up and towards the stage to avoid throw kills from Dedede. His throws can kill if you DI poorly and you're close to the edge of the stage.
His u-tilt is just crazy like it's been stated before. The hitbox stays out quite a bit, it hits both in front of him and in back of him too.
Also...I hate Gordos. With a passion.
Played some friendlies with M2K's Dedede last week and EVERY game he would throw a Gordo right at the start of the match. I'm not joking.
Lost in tourney to a Dedede when it was last stock high damage. Threw a Gordo at me. GGPO Marth.
I cried.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
D3's throws have terrible knockback. I survived a backthrow from D3 at over 200% with ROB.
It should also be noted that you can do exactly two u-tilts in the time of one u-smash, and the u-tilt actually kills earlier. The only advantage the u-smash has is that it can be charged.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
Ok. I should have said they kill well if you DI badly or don't DI. But also remember that you play R.O.B.
I play Marth and Hylian plays G&W/IC's. The wieght of our mains is a big factor.
Editted my previous post.
I play Marth and Hylian plays G&W/IC's. The wieght of our mains is a big factor.
Editted my previous post.
LeeHarris
Smash Lord
I agree with OS on his throws having mediocre to poor knockback. They are good for racking up damage but not killing. That's what his other moves are for.
Emblem Lord
The Legendary Lord
- Joined
- Aug 11, 2005
- Messages
- 9,720
- Location
- Scotch Plains, NJ
- NNID
- ShinEmblemLord
- 3DS FC
- 3926-6895-0574
- Switch FC
- SW-0793-4091-6136
So I was looking at the hint that SP gave for Dedede. It seemed accurate in talking about Dedede's recovery in terms of how it can be predictable. Even if you don't gimp Dedede it seems fairly easy to get in some hits on him. when he is recovering Shall we post some methods of edgeguarding Dedede with our mains?
This is what I do with Marth. If Dedede has to use his up B and he is going for the stage I will counter. If he eats it then he took a chunk of damage. If he cancels it then Marth recovers fast enough to hit Dedede back out. Another thing I will do is grab the ledge so Dedede is forced onto the stage then do a ledge hopped counter. And of course if the Dedede has a habit of going for the ledge by cancelling his up b then you can go for an edgehug.
This is what I do with Marth. If Dedede has to use his up B and he is going for the stage I will counter. If he eats it then he took a chunk of damage. If he cancels it then Marth recovers fast enough to hit Dedede back out. Another thing I will do is grab the ledge so Dedede is forced onto the stage then do a ledge hopped counter. And of course if the Dedede has a habit of going for the ledge by cancelling his up b then you can go for an edgehug.
With Sheik I generally give at least moderate pursuit off the edge, if I know he has to up b I actually tend to edgeguard him with up b where he is going to land. You can really easily see where he is going to end up landing generally speaking, but the timing on the up b is kind of tricky. Generally speaking most dedede's will try to challange but if you've timed it right you're invincibility frames will make it so you hit him and he doesn't hit you.
that's my favorite way with sheik anyways haha
if they are recovering from a lower angle throw some needles to hopefully eat the jumps so they'll have to up b.
that's my favorite way with sheik anyways haha
if they are recovering from a lower angle throw some needles to hopefully eat the jumps so they'll have to up b.
omegablackmage
Certified Lion Rider
ok so gw vs ddd....
for edgeguarding all you have to do is dtilt the edge (occasional fairs off the stage for added damage/pressure) and then wait for the up b when they are out of jumps. Then watch the ddd near the edge to see if he drops early to grab the edge (hog quick if this happens). If he goes through with it, then all the gw player has to do is up b into his body facing away from the stage (this will send him back out, no matter what), rinse and repeat... dead ddd. Also, up airing the ddd on his way down or from the drop out animation will give you good stage control.
on the stage, the turtle will outprioritize the bairs and nairs, and will move the projectiles out of the way (save gordos). The only moves that really need to be watched for are the up tilt and the forward tilt. Up tilt, if saved will kill gw pretty early, however the key will go through this so it would have to be set up into, or done out of sheild at the right time. Ftilt has just way more range than anything gw has, however the move is pretty useless combo wise, so its really only annoying more than anything else. Also, as known, ddd can't chaingrab gw so he loses a big advantage he has on most others.
for edgeguarding all you have to do is dtilt the edge (occasional fairs off the stage for added damage/pressure) and then wait for the up b when they are out of jumps. Then watch the ddd near the edge to see if he drops early to grab the edge (hog quick if this happens). If he goes through with it, then all the gw player has to do is up b into his body facing away from the stage (this will send him back out, no matter what), rinse and repeat... dead ddd. Also, up airing the ddd on his way down or from the drop out animation will give you good stage control.
on the stage, the turtle will outprioritize the bairs and nairs, and will move the projectiles out of the way (save gordos). The only moves that really need to be watched for are the up tilt and the forward tilt. Up tilt, if saved will kill gw pretty early, however the key will go through this so it would have to be set up into, or done out of sheild at the right time. Ftilt has just way more range than anything gw has, however the move is pretty useless combo wise, so its really only annoying more than anything else. Also, as known, ddd can't chaingrab gw so he loses a big advantage he has on most others.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
Olimar destroys D3, btw. The lag from D3's attacks is enough to throw 3 (!!) pikmin on him, on average. You can rack up damage insanely fast, and the knockback of all of D3's attacks sends you up and out, which is perfect for Olimar.
What's better is that Olimar can actually have a more dangerous grab game than Dedede. For once, Dedede has to worry about getting grabbed. He can't chain grab Olimar, and Olimar can combo him to hell and back without much effort. Did I mention you can up-smash D3 as he's falling out of his up+b without much trouble?
The only problem Olimar ever really has is a Dedede that is setting himself up to throw out a few back airs, and all Olimar has to do there is run away or simply up+b Dedede! The angle is perfect to knock him away.
Lee, you got this? You are late
What's better is that Olimar can actually have a more dangerous grab game than Dedede. For once, Dedede has to worry about getting grabbed. He can't chain grab Olimar, and Olimar can combo him to hell and back without much effort. Did I mention you can up-smash D3 as he's falling out of his up+b without much trouble?
The only problem Olimar ever really has is a Dedede that is setting himself up to throw out a few back airs, and all Olimar has to do there is run away or simply up+b Dedede! The angle is perfect to knock him away.
Lee, you got this? You are late
hahaha i'm sorry but i just love how "combo him to hell and back" means get like 3 reliable hits in a row in brawl LOL