We Want Shiek

[Muffin_man]

Opinion? good one, from being a minor character in the Zelda series to being the most broken and overpowered character in Melee with a made up moveset? Yeah she is more overrated than any Zelda character.

Stop billing your opinion as a fact. I doubt the entire Zelda community all praises Sheik night and day because of an appearance in a cameo game. Also, stop using the rationality that 'she's broken in Melee, so she MUST be broken in Brawl'. It's a SEQUEL. Funnily enough, stuff tends to CHANGE in sequels. We've seen Bowser improved and the seemingly unstoppable Fox toned down; why the hell would they skip Sheik's for tweaking for Brawl?

I said at present time, Midna is currently relevant to the Zelda series because of TP, she probably won't be when the next Zelda comes out, just like Sheik is irrelevant now.

So if there's ever a fourth Smash Bros. game, whatever character from the most recent Zelda game should replace Midna than? What's wrong with just... I don't know, ADDING to the same secondary characters from the last two rather than replacing them? Also keep in mind that if Sheik does make it in, it affects Midna chances diddly-squat. She isn't a complete character, and she has a pre-existent moveset so they'll spend less time on her.

Link and Zelda's designs, Link's updated weaponry, Bridge of Eldin stage. What are you saying again?

'Not enough evidence to say that at this point. The most you can say is that they're using their TP's aesthetic, and even then not religiously; Zelda isn't a brunette in TP, yet she is in Brawl. The Master Sword is shorter than it was in TP in Brawl.

As I said in my other point, they probably want to branch out more of the Zelda series and include as much of the different incarnations as possible.

You're cute.

EDIT:

There's also no reason not to put Roy in. But people want him gone.

The ONLY reason people want Sheik to return is because she was the highest tiered character. If she was low tiered, no one would give a rat's *** if she returned or not.

Erm... People don't Roy in because he was a clone, and has even less bearing on the overall series than Sheik does to Zelda. And the reasons why I want Sheik are simply because she had an original moveset and she's a novel way to represent OoT without going overboard. I used to try to main Bowser of all people; I'm not the kind of person who wants her in because she's high tier, especially when she'll likely be toned down for Brawl ala Fox.

 

[vesperview]

Stop billing your opinion as a fact. I doubt the entire Zelda community all praises Sheik night and day because of an appearance in a cameo game. Also, stop using the rationality that all the 'she's broken in Melee, so she MUST be broken in the Brawl'. It's a SEQUEL. Funnily enough, stuff tends to CHANGE in sequels. We've seen Bowser improved and the seemingly unstoppable Fox toned down; why the hell would they skip Sheik's for tweaking for Brawl?

What is even the point in that? Sheik is a character with an invented overpowered moveset that's why she is overrated.

So if there's ever a fourth Smash Bros. game, whatever character from the most recent Zelda game should replace Midna than? What's wrong with just... I don't know, ADDING to the same secondary characters from the last two rather than replacing them? Also keep in mind that if Sheik does make it in, it affects Midna chances diddly-squat. She isn't a complete character, and she has a pre-existent moveset so they'll spend less time on her.

What's the point in keeping a character that serves no purpose to the series anymore? and who are you to say if they'll spend less time or if they even care about that to begin with?

'Not enough evidence to say that at this point. The most you can say is that they're using their TP's aesthetic, and even then not religiously; Zelda isn't a brunette in TP, yet she is in Brawl. The Master Sword is shorter than it was in TP in Brawl.

As I said in my other point, they probably want to branch out more of the Zelda series and include as much of the different incarnations as possible.
You're cute.

Oh how funny... there is enough evidence to say that TP is the one they're focusing on, they make it blatantly obvious, OoT is the one they focused on in Melee, with just a stage from Majora's, which is probably why Skull Kid didn't make it, because he didn't fit the OoT mood they were trying to have, Sheik totally destroys the TP mood, and that is the one they're focusing on in Brawl, I don't think you're that oblivious to completely dismiss that fact aren't you? If Ganondorf gets his TP look it will the next to last nail on the coffin for Sheik.

 

[Circus]

although Im not too good with [Sheik]

Impossible. Sheik is too noob friendly not to be good with her, especially if you like her enough to use her a fair amount. If you're not good with Sheik, you're holding the controller upside down.

 

[GreenKirby]

People still want characters like G&W and Mewtwo to return, even though they were low tier, so your argument fails. Besides, I'm certain that there are a lot of people who liked using both Sheik and Zelda together, as intended. In lower-level play (i.e. more casual play [i.e. people who wouldn't frequent a SSB forum]) tiers don't really matter, and I don't think anyone would notice how powerful one character is compared to another. I love to play as both characters, and I do well with both characters.

Saying that it's all because of tiers is a weak argument.

Mewtwo is the 'villain' of the Pokemon series. Also, the second best Pokemon there is.

And without Mr. Game & Watch, Nintendo wouldn't be what it is today.

So those two pretty much have a legimate reason.

Very wrong, I really really liked her style.. although Im not too good with her, and she looks cool. I want her in. Roy is a swordfighter and we have enough of those already.

But do you have a legimate beside 'just liking her'

 

[ThoraxeRMG]

The ONLY reason people want Sheik to return is because she was the highest tiered character. If she was low tiered, no one would give a rat's *** if she returned or not.

The **** you talking about, there are people (Ex: ME) that liked the charater of Sheik before she appeared in Brawl. Please never assume.

Impossible. Sheik is too noob friendly not to be good with her, especially if you like her enough to use her a fair amount. If you're not good with Sheik, you're holding the controller upside down.

That's your opinion, bud.

 

[Teeb147]

Impossible. Sheik is too noob friendly not to be good with her, especially if you like her enough to use her a fair amount. If you're not good with Sheik, you're holding the controller upside down.

Not 'too' good I said, I'm still alright, but although ive spent as much time with her as pikachu and link im still better with the 2 latter. I spent less time with marth than those 3 but am better with him by alot... its probably just the style i use or something.

 

[vesperview]

OK, Since no one can actually argue in favor of Sheik, my work is done here.

I will die of shock the moment someone doesn't use the following arguments as a reason for Sheik to return:

- She's awesome
- Unique moveset
- She's my main

 

[Muffin_man]

This is pointless. You're not even reading half of my argument; you're just walking around every unavoidable point, like how Sheik will probably be significantly different in Brawl on principal alone (AKA THEY WOULD PROBABLY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO MAKE HER BALANCED), or how Smash has never focused solely on the new aspects of each franchise. And of course Ganondorf's going to have a TP inspired design, but that hardly means that 'if you're not from TP, BAM, you're outta here!'

I seriously have no idea why you hate the prospect of a character with an original moveset from Melee re-appearing in Brawl. Would you be outraged if Ness, despite the huge odds, appeared in spite of everything Mother-related sans Mr. Saturn stemming from Mother 3? Because if I'm interpreting your sig right, than I don't see how you can argue that Sheik shouldn't be in for not being in TP, yet Ness would be a-okay despite not appearing in Mother 3.

And so god help me if you use the picture slide show in New Pork City as your justification for Ness. XD

For somebody who supports Midna, you seem to have the rationality that you wouldn't really care if she was taken out of the next Smash for somebody more recent. Smash Bros. is a metaphorical historical documentary of Nintendo; not a brochure advertising all their newest games and characters.

 

[vesperview]

For somebody who supports Midna, you seem to have the rationality that you wouldn't really care if she was taken out of the next Smash for somebody more recent. Smash Bros. is a metaphorical historical documentary of Nintendo; not a brochure advertising all their newest games and characters.

Then why don't we have Pig Ganon or Aghanim be playable? If you think Smash Bros is just a homage to Nintendo's history you're very naive, of course they advertise their newer games, just look at Roy in Melee, perfect example, you talk as if cutting Sheik is cutting Link or Zelda, no it's just Sheik, I would understand if Midna appears in Brawl and is cut off in the next Smash in case she didn't appear in any more Zelda games, cause they obviously focus more on their newer games.

and don't give me the Ice Climbers, Pit, Mr Game and Watch crap again, because those are hardly relevant to this particular case.

 

[Teeb147]

OK, Since no one can actually argue in favor of Sheik, my work is done here.

I will die of shock the moment someone doesn't use the following arguments as a reason for Sheik to return:

- She's awesome
- Unique moveset
- She's my main

not quite

-She IS awesome
-Unique AND Fun moveset
-She's not my main, marth is
-She was in the previous game
-She's popular ( ocarina was big after all)
-Ice Cimbers and Lucas were just in 1 game as well
-No valid reason to leaver her out
-Many reasons unexplainable in human language.. jk

 

[Shadowbolt]

And Sheik = Historical? lol

 

[vesperview]

-She IS awesome

That's not a reason.

-Unique AND Fun moveset

That also isn't a reason.

-She's not my main, marth is

So?

-She was in the previous game

So?

-She's popular ( ocarina was big after all)

She's still irrelevant to the Zelda series at this particular time.

-Ice Cimbers and Lucas were just in 1 game as well

They were the leads in their games, unlike Sheik.

-No valid reason to keep her in

Fixed it for you.

See, you have nothing.

 

[SiD]

Vesper, it always makes me laugh how you completely ignore it when someone brings up her popularity because she is "irrelevant to the series".

 

[Muffin_man]

Then why don't we have Pig Ganon or Aghanim be playable?
... Because they're both alternate versions of Ganondorf? D:

And without resorting to the 'Retro makes them justifiable', explain why we still have Pit and Ice Climbers. I'm not saying Sheik is retro, I'm just saying Nintendo doesn't cut people out because they haven't appeared in X amount of years. HELL, YOU SUPPORT GENO. He's by no means 'retro' or 'relevant' to the Mario series anymore, so why the support for him? Stop twisting your logic so it only applies to characters you don't like.

 

[vesperview]

Vesper, it always makes me laugh how you completely ignore it when someone brings up her popularity because she is "irrelevant to the series".

I lol everytime you say popularity keeps characters in games.

Then why don't we have Pig Ganon or Aghanim be playable?
... Because they're both alternate versions of Ganondorf? D:

Sheik is just an alternate version of Zelda... Duh!

And without resorting to the 'Retro makes them justifiable', explain why we still have Pit and Ice Climbers. I'm not saying Sheik is retro, I'm just saying Nintendo doesn't cut people out because they haven't appeared in X amount of years. HELL, YOU SUPPORT GENO. He's by no means 'retro' or 'relevant' to the Mario series anymore, so why the support for him? Stop twisting your logic so it only applies to characters you don't like.

How convenient, RETRO MAKES THEM JUSTIFIABLE, they were more popular and important in their prime than Sheik will ever be... and what's with you, can't you come up with a decent argument without bringing other characters to the table?

 

[error_alt_delete]

This is pointless. like how Sheik will probably be significantly different in Brawl on principal alone (AKA THEY WOULD PROBABLY GO OUT OF THEIR WAY TO MAKE HER BALANCED), or how Smash has never focused solely on the new aspects of each franchise.

doesnt focus on newer looks?
*points to wario, link, zelda, mario+fludd, pit(most current, only one game so far), ice climbers(ditto to pit), pokemon trainer(fire red/leaf green look), ZSS/normal samus, ect.*
shall I add more?

 

[SiD]

I lol everytime you say popularity keeps characters in games.

Obviously it does, so, lol at yourself.

 

[vesperview]

Obviously it does, so, lol at yourself.

No it doesn't... give me one example of that ever happening, keeping an irrelevant character just because he is popular.

 

[Muffin_man]

Vesperview, just answer the **** comment about Geno. I'll even copy paste it for you:

HELL, YOU SUPPORT GENO. He's by no means 'retro' or 'relevant' to the Mario series anymore, so why the support for him? Stop twisting your logic so it only applies to characters you don't like.

 

[SiD]

There is no proof that characters aren't getting in based on popularity dude......

Acutally, how about Ness in Melee? He came back, yet Earthbound was hella old. So there's your example.

Plus, you support Geno....he's no more relevant than Shiek is, and OoT came out after SMRPG.

 

[vesperview]

Vesperview, just answer the **** comment about Geno. I'll even copy paste it for you:

HELL, YOU SUPPORT GENO. He's by no means 'retro' or 'relevant' to the Mario series anymore, so why the support for him? Stop twisting your logic so it only applies to characters you don't like.

Fine, Geno is one of the most mentioned characters by Sakurai, Geno is the catalyst of the entire plot of SMRPG...tell me how that even compares to Sheik who wasn't in the Melee poll?

There is no proof that characters aren't getting in based on popularity dude......

Acutally, how about Ness in Melee? He came back, yet Earthbound was hella old. So there's your example.

Plus, you support Geno....he's no more relevant than Shiek is, and OoT came out after SMRPG.

Ness was in Melee cause of Earthbound 64's cancellation.

 

[SiD]

We're not talking about that, we're talking about relevancy vs Popularity. Geno is in the same boat as Shiek, only Shiek has the advantage of being a returning character.

 

[Teeb147]

I lol everytime you say popularity keeps characters in games.



Sheik is just an alternate version of Zelda... Duh!



How convenient, RETRO MAKES THEM JUSTIFIABLE, they were more popular and important in their prime than Sheik will ever be... and what's with you, can't you come up with a decent argument without bringing other characters to the table?

How is pikachu still revelant to the series? dont state the anime, it has nothing to do with the games
Three starter pokemon form way back still apply to diamond and pearl as mains ??? jiggly puff wasnt popular in melee and wasnt revelant, they just put her in cuz she was in 64.

What you have to say now?

 

[Muffin_man]

Fine, Geno is one of the most mentioned characters by Sakurai, Geno is the catalyst of the entire plot of SMRPG (NOTE: Emphasis that this is only one game... Just like Ocarina of Time! :D) ...tell me how that even compares to Sheik who wasn't in the Melee poll?

I lol everytime you say popularity keeps characters in games.

 

[Speedsk8er]

Sheik doesn't deserve to come back.

She was a good(albeit broken) addition to the character roster. Sheik deserves to return, especially if characters like the Ice Climbers(my mains) are returning also.

She deserves to return, only with much better balance. Don't let your hatred for her Melee incarnation interfere with you remembering that they can balance her out.

 

[vesperview]

We're not talking about that, we're talking about relevancy vs Popularity. Geno is in the same boat as Shiek, only Shiek has the advantage of being a returning character.

Geno has had more than one appearance, a fairly recent one at most, meaning, they still consider him despite being outdated, where the hell is Sheik on the Zelda series since OoT?

 

[SiD]

....

A cameo appearance in a Mario game does not count dude, it's not like they could do something like that in a Zelda game, and certainly doesn't have as much weight as being in the previous Smash gaem.

 

[vesperview]

....

A cameo appearance in a Mario game does not count dude, it's not like they could do something like that in a Zelda game, and certainly doesn't have as much weight as being in the previous Smash gaem.

I meant in their own series, not the Smash series... Sheik hasn't even had a cameo since OoT.

 

[ThoraxeRMG]

vesperview, for some reason, I sense a hint of hatred toward Sheik from you.

 

[SiD]

......

I just said that, but it's not the same. Mario games, especially Mario and Luigi, are hella silly. To have a Shiek cameo in a Zelda game would be stupid. So no, that matters not.

I think you just only want what you've been preaching to apply to a character you hate.

 

[Teeb147]

youre just being stubborn vesper, you still havent answered how the pokemon are revelant or popular.

Anyway gnight

 

[vesperview]

......

I just said that, but it's not the same. Mario games, especially Mario and Luigi, are hella silly. To have a Shiek cameo in a Zelda game would be stupid. So no, that matters not.

They're still Mario games... is like saying appearing on Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass matters not.

youre just being stubborn vesper, you still havent answered how the pokemon are revelant or popular.

Anyway gnight

Are we on the same thread?

 

[SiD]

They're still Mario games... is like saying appearing on Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass matters not.



Are we on the same thread?

What? I just mean that they couldn't have had a Shiek cameo....

So it has no relevancy whatsoever to our argument.

 

[Teeb147]

They're still Mario games... is like saying appearing on Wind Waker or Phantom Hourglass matters not.



Are we on the same thread?

Yeh, im saying how does pikachu, squirtle, ivysaur, charizard, and jigglypuff deserver to be in more and shiek? theyre not revelant anymore and jigglypuff was readded in melee cuz she was in 64.

 

[vesperview]

What? I just mean that they couldn't have had a Shiek cameo....

So it has no relevancy whatsoever to our argument.

If they even remotely cared about Sheik, they would find a way to incorporate her to the plot, even if it was for a cameo, plus, Sheik already had her time to shine right? Why don't you let her move on? whatever, G2G, I guess we'll keep this going tomorrow? (Hope not).

 

[SiD]

If they even remotely cared about Sheik, they would find a way to incorporate her to the plot, even if it was for a cameo, plus, Sheik already had her time to shine right? Why don't you let her move on?

See, now your just making straw man arguments.

And I've said already, if there was some sort of character limit or some ****, than Geno for example should get in over Shiek.

But there isn't, so there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to remove her. So I don't understand the argument.

 

[vesperview]

See, now your just making straw man arguments.

And I've said already, if there was some sort of character limit or some ****, than Geno for example should get in over Shiek.

But there isn't, so there is NO REASON WHATSOEVER to remove her. So I don't understand the argument.

OK, then can we end this argument by agreeing to disagree? Cause you and I are never gonna come to an end with this discussion.

 

[SiD]

Ok I guess....

So you disagree that he can put in all characters he wants to? Cause I'm pretty sure you're wrong...

Or if you don't disagree with that, wanting shiek out is just ****ed up.

And Shiek is in the EXACT same boat as Geno...

So no, I can't agree to disagree, not when I'm winning.

 

[Muffin_man]

DUEL TO THE DEATH.

Though yeah, it's pretty obvious that you really, really, REALLY don't want Sheik in, and it's the same vice versa for fans of her. Neither side is going to give way, so let's just bury it, shall we? :D

 

[SiD]

I can agree to stop arguing. I'm cool with quitting while I'm ahead.