Ulevo
Smash Master
The purpose of this thread is to discuss Lylat Cruise under two separate facets. The first is whether or not Lylat Cruise deserves to be used as a starter stage over the two alternative options, Duck Hunt and Delfino Plaza. The second is whether or not Lylat Cruise deserves to be a legal stage.
My reasons for initiating this discussion are pretty simple. The first is that out of the three stages available to choose from as a 5th starter in our starter list (Lylat Cruise, Duck Hunt, and Delfino Plaza), I feel that Lylat Cruise is by far the most prejudice, and the one with the least characteristics that comprise an ideal starter. The second is that the stage affects and interrupts gameplay in semi predictable yet nonsensical fashion.
I realize that some of these reasons may seem controversial on face value, but I encourage legitimate discussion.
Lylat in Smash 4 will interrupt characters while the stage is tilting. This happens because the stage will tilt and result in the character model going from ground to air. Unfortunately, this can happen at any time during the tilt. I have experienced it while shielding, during rolls, performing jabs, tilts, smashes, et cetera. The effects of this can vary. Sometimes the character will go in to a neutral air stance and land back on stage almost instantly, while other times the character will go in to a tumble animation.
Players who has made the effort to research Lylat Cruise have noted that the stage does tilt in a semi predictable pattern. The way in which it tilts is based on the background transformation. While the order in which these backgrounds appear are not set, the order in which the stage tilts per each background is set. In theory, a player well versed with the stage could account for these factors and accommodate accordingly. However, at least in my experience, the instances in which a character can be interrupted by the stage are not so clear. As long as the stage is tilting, there is a chance that the character can be interrupted so long as they are grounded and performing a particular action:
It is also worth noting that because of the nature of how these mechanics work, Lylat discriminates against characters with ground based play while favouring characters that are able to employ more aerial styled tactics and movement.
What thoughts do people have on Lylat?
My reasons for initiating this discussion are pretty simple. The first is that out of the three stages available to choose from as a 5th starter in our starter list (Lylat Cruise, Duck Hunt, and Delfino Plaza), I feel that Lylat Cruise is by far the most prejudice, and the one with the least characteristics that comprise an ideal starter. The second is that the stage affects and interrupts gameplay in semi predictable yet nonsensical fashion.
I realize that some of these reasons may seem controversial on face value, but I encourage legitimate discussion.
Lylat in Smash 4 will interrupt characters while the stage is tilting. This happens because the stage will tilt and result in the character model going from ground to air. Unfortunately, this can happen at any time during the tilt. I have experienced it while shielding, during rolls, performing jabs, tilts, smashes, et cetera. The effects of this can vary. Sometimes the character will go in to a neutral air stance and land back on stage almost instantly, while other times the character will go in to a tumble animation.
Players who has made the effort to research Lylat Cruise have noted that the stage does tilt in a semi predictable pattern. The way in which it tilts is based on the background transformation. While the order in which these backgrounds appear are not set, the order in which the stage tilts per each background is set. In theory, a player well versed with the stage could account for these factors and accommodate accordingly. However, at least in my experience, the instances in which a character can be interrupted by the stage are not so clear. As long as the stage is tilting, there is a chance that the character can be interrupted so long as they are grounded and performing a particular action:
Of note is the effect that the tilting stage has on the fight. In addition to the obvious interference with projectiles, it can also make recovering troublesome as the ledges move back and forth. Lastly, as the stage tilts, certain attacks which physically move the fighter can end up placing the fighter in an airborne state instead of leaving them on the ground. This effect seems to be localized at the ledges and the engines, where there exist sudden height differences. Bowser's jab is notable for being particularly easy to trigger this effect with; stand on the ledge while facing the middle of the stage and use his jab as the ledge tilts up.
The problem with this mechanic is it's exactly like Brawl tripping. We know what causes Brawl tripping. The instance in which your character dashes, you have a 1% chance to trip. Just because we know there are odds to trip does not mean we know when we'll trip, and that's the problem. It's not reasonable to tell players "just don't dash" any more than it is to tell players "don't use attacks or actions on the ground that move you." We know attacks or actions associated with movement (read: that's a lot) can be interrupted during stage tilts (read: it tilts a lot) can trigger this, but we don't know when we'll actually be interrupted.The way it works is that some moves in their animation shift the user on the ground a bit and the game has to correct for that movement at some point. In order to keep attackers on the ground when the stage tilts, the game has to correct as well. If you are standing on the engines (where the stage "bucks" just a bit) or right on either ledge and use such a move, the sum of the necessary corrections gets greater than the game is willing to automatically do and you pop into the air in the middle of the animation. You pop very low; on the engines you tend to be in the air for only a frame or two which pretty much just means it instantly cancels whatever you were doing to trigger the effect. On the ledges you often fall off the stage which doesn't seem very useful but does come up.
It is 100% non-random. It's just very hard to determine which moves in particular will trigger it and just how much tilt is needed per move (some moves need less tilt than others; Bowser's jab needs way less tilt than most others). It's also more often than not unhelpful for the user since it seems very easy to cancel a move before it hits, but I'm pretty sure there's some really clever stuff to be done with this by a knowledgeable player. In general I look at this as a super specific AT more than a "problem" with the stage.
It is also worth noting that because of the nature of how these mechanics work, Lylat discriminates against characters with ground based play while favouring characters that are able to employ more aerial styled tactics and movement.
What thoughts do people have on Lylat?
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