WE LIVIN' DOE! A Mario resurrection thread ft: A Rookie

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
A Rookie, you should make an updated guide on Mario. I'm struggling with a lot of matchups with Mario (especially Falco) and I'm not sure how to approach these matchups. I feel like the old guide is outdated due to the new meta, but that could just be me.
While I think it's about time we start talking about matchups, I actually think the old guide by maelstrom(stickied thread) is super good. Helped me get started a lot when I first got started. I sometimes seriously find it hard to believe that guide was from 2005 XD
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
A Rookie, you should make an updated guide on Mario. I'm struggling with a lot of matchups with Mario (especially Falco) and I'm not sure how to approach these matchups. I feel like the old guide is outdated due to the new meta, but that could just be me.
Lol, sounds like a plan! I got some notes on a lot of characters. I will post them later today hopefully. I hope they help you guys like they help me (:
 

Britex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Quebec, Sherbrooke
I went to my first smash tournament yesterday. It wasn't the greatest thing (no pools, Lcd tvs that lagged, single elimination 3 stock until quarterfinals, final destination only...) but it was still a lot fun and I got to meet other real players. I managed to make it to grand finals but lost 3-1 to a sheik.

Got any tips as how to approach as mario vs sheik?
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
How do you feel about mario vs peach?
I'm considering using mario more for that matchup more, since he's my secondary anyway.

also, tips for samus?
Mario vs Peach is a tough MU, only because it's hard to kill Peach and she has insane priority in her aerials. Samus, is all about spacing. CC downsmashes, WD back dsmash, tilts, etc.


I went to my first smash tournament yesterday. It wasn't the greatest thing (no pools, Lcd tvs that lagged, single elimination 3 stock until quarterfinals, final destination only...) but it was still a lot fun and I got to meet other real players. I managed to make it to grand finals but lost 3-1 to a sheik.

Got any tips as how to approach as mario vs sheik?
Yooooo, good stuff Britex! But to approach Sheik is a tough question to answer. It depends on how the Sheik player plays. If he takes it to the sky and does a lot of aerials, full hop dair is a good approach(before her aerials come out) since it stuffs her and you can use your double jump to follow up the combo or get away. Being in the center and avoiding laggy moves vs her will make it hard for her to approach. You have to kind of see how your opponent plays to approach though tbh.
 

Britex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Quebec, Sherbrooke
Well, the sheik I was playing agaisnt didn't approach at all. He just stood on the edge of fd and threw needles. When I went in, he would either shield or dash back and get a grab or something else.
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh Eskimo
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Mario vs Peach is a tough MU, only because it's hard to kill Peach and she has insane priority in her aerials. Samus, is all about spacing. CC downsmashes, WD back dsmash, tilts, etc.
Yeah I imagine peach isn't the easiest, but I feel like it'd be easier for me with mario than ICs, I generally ban DL, and then try to force peach into the air with fireballs and get under her with uair and usmash. I've also had a lot of success with wd back -> angled fsmash, since she has a bit of trouble dealing with that from her float.
FH falling Bair also seems to work well as a spacing tool while she's floating, the only issue I have with it is when peach fairs.


Well, the sheik I was playing agaisnt didn't approach at all. He just stood on the edge of fd and threw needles. When I went in, he would either shield or dash back and get a grab or something else.
good job at your first tourney man! As for sheik, patient sheiks are the hardest. You pretty much just have to learn how to bait something punishable, which is a pretty difficult thing to learn. One thing I like to do is fake an approach in with an empty shorthop, if they shield, you can buffer a spotdodge as soon as you hit the ground. If they try to throw out an attack, you can just double jump back.
You can also try overshooting your shffld nairs so that you land behind their shield or hit them if they try to wd back.
Another option is to dash towards them, then wd back to see if they try to ftilt or dsmash, a lot of times, once they whiff an attack, they'll panic and shield and you can grab them.
Hope that helps!
 

Britex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Quebec, Sherbrooke
I went to Polybash this weekend and got to meet and play tons of really good players (Kage,Bam,M2k,KirbyKaze,etc). My objective was to atleast make it out of pools but only top 4 made it out of pools and I finished 5th in mine. Really salty about that. But, on the up side, I got to practice a lot and I really feel like I improved considerably just because of this tourney. I also managed to get 2 friendlies vs M2k on stream, so I'd like it if you guys could critique my Mario, although I played awful that set.

Matches are here: http://www.twitch.tv/clashtournaments/b/507713095, between 3 hour 55 to 4 hour.
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh Eskimo
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
hey man, don't beat yourself up! It happens to all of us, I was infamous for flopping in pools.
I'll critique your set later, when I get some more time on my hands!
 

DerfMidWest

Fresh Eskimo
Joined
Mar 31, 2011
Messages
4,063
Location
Cleveland, OH
Ok so a few things I noticed:
You need to work on your movement a bit more, it's getting there, but you can be a lot faster. Consistency and speed are just things you build up through a lot of practice. Grind out wavedashing different lengths, SHFFLing, wavelanding on platforms and out of bair or fj fireball.

Also don't approach with fireball, because it doesnt have hitstun or priority so jason just cced it and punished. Retreating fireball is ok though, try to do that more.
You don't have to approach right away, bait things and find an opening to get in. Mario isn't a spacey.

But yeah, those were the major points.

Game 2 your movement was a lot smoother.
You had a really nice UpB walljump recovery in there :)

It seems like you are trying to predict a LOT more than you are reacting. You kind of just seem to throw out moves sometimes and you get punished for it.
Also be really careful with some of those capes... not sure why you throw some of those out there, but yeah... try to do that less. A lot of people will bait those out of you and punish it.
 

Britex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Quebec, Sherbrooke
Thanks for the advice, I'll definitely work on these!

Your point regarding me approaching constantly really hit home. I just keep running at my opponent throwing nairs and dairs and often I just get punished for it.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
Kickass! All the other parts of the Mario forums I've been posting in have been pretty dead.

How do you guys recommend approaching besides using/ abusing movement to get that grab and move from there?

I've had trouble with getting punished for trying to use Dthrow > Uair chains at low percents, and I see A Rookie usually use Usmash and Utilt after Dthrow at lower percents, so I guess, what percents do Uairs start comboing and not just being punishable?

When you're above someone, what's the best way to return to the stage? I played against a Mario secondary at my towns weeklies and he told me to just try to avoid coming down on top of people, but Marth always gives me trouble.

I see you guys have gotten some of that weird gloat trolling that Papa+Stone does. He did that in the P:M Mario boards too. A tip on that is that he'll never actually give evidence. I don't know if he's trolling or has an inflated ego but there's nothing really to the guy.
 

KoopaTroopa895

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Apr 24, 2012
Messages
138
Kickass! All the other parts of the Mario forums I've been posting in have been pretty dead.

How do you guys recommend approaching besides using/ abusing movement to get that grab and move from there?

I've had trouble with getting punished for trying to use Dthrow > Uair chains at low percents, and I see A Rookie usually use Usmash and Utilt after Dthrow at lower percents, so I guess, what percents do Uairs start comboing and not just being punishable?

When you're above someone, what's the best way to return to the stage? I played against a Mario secondary at my towns weeklies and he told me to just try to avoid coming down on top of people, but Marth always gives me trouble.

I see you guys have gotten some of that weird gloat trolling that Papa+Stone does. He did that in the P:M Mario boards too. A tip on that is that he'll never actually give evidence. I don't know if he's trolling or has an inflated ego but there's nothing really to the guy.

Are you talking about fox for the throw follow ups?
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
Just in general. All the foxes in my town are too next level for me to strategize yet.

Edit: So Marth, Falcon, Shiek, and Peach then.
 
Last edited:

Britex

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Dec 18, 2011
Messages
106
Location
Quebec, Sherbrooke
I've been using lots of late u-airs to approach lately, kind of like a falcon would. The move is really fast and if you space it well you can jab to pressure after your u-air. Vs floaties fullhop d-air is still the best tool for approaching, esp in the air. Also if you're fighting a needle camping sheik, camp her back with jumping fireballs. This is esp good on fd where the large distance won't allow her to punish you.
 

VegiLohrd

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 23, 2014
Messages
135
Location
Pittsburgh/Erie, PA, USA
I've been using lots of late u-airs to approach lately, kind of like a falcon would. The move is really fast and if you space it well you can jab to pressure after your u-air. Vs floaties fullhop d-air is still the best tool for approaching, esp in the air. Also if you're fighting a needle camping sheik, camp her back with jumping fireballs. This is esp good on fd where the large distance won't allow her to punish you.
I second what he said. Uair and Dair are your best tools for approaching, but if you're feeling especially dangerous you can go for a shorthop Fair. If you space it right it's hard to punish and it leads to a grab at low percents
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
Good ****. If i Uair > jab can they not grab me in between Uair and jabs?

Also how do I tighten up my jab > jab > Grab/ Dsmash? The grab or Dsmash comes out slow and I don't really know how to mend that.
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
A Rookie, you're surely an inspiration to Mario mains right now. Being arguable the biggest rep in the competitive scene
Thank you! That means a lot coming from anyone :D Don't worry, I won't ever switch mains for a second. Except in teams, cuz teams is crazy. Haha. But my last tournament, I didn't do too hot. But the tournament before that I beat some pretty decent people. Come on my Mario Bros. let's shut this 20XX bullsh** up!
 
Joined
Jan 10, 2009
Messages
613
Location
Long Beach, Ca
Tips for the neutral game against both spacies? It feels like they just have a bulldozer of priority that beats me out anytime I try an aerial in neutral.
The neutral game is really complex. I can't even give you a good explanation if I tried since Fox/Falco are played differently by every player. Not sure really tbh. I feel like I fish more than I should. But I usually go for trades until they're up to combo % and then I unload on them if I can back them into a corner or if they do something unsafe. Run up shield is a great option though since they can't get too much off of grabs. If they're jumping too much, dair. If they're grounded and dash dancing a lot, shoot fireballs to approach or force them to approach. If they're over aggressive, upsmash/upb/upair oos. Sorry, can't give you too much tips on this :/
 

TehGuitarLord

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jul 8, 2014
Messages
91
Location
Syosset, New York
3DS FC
1203-9544-5962
NNID
Slice_O_Pie
So when you, or anybody else up walljumps, do you mash the stick horizontally, or do you just try to get the timing down? I feel like it's easier to just mash the stick fast, and i figure that if I can develop my button mashing skills with tornado, why not do the same here?
 
Joined
Feb 2, 2014
Messages
184
Location
Corvallis, OR
I feel like as mario mains we've got bigger problems than the up-b walljump which is what most of our disscussions are about lol. IMO the frame window for up-b walljump is pretty lenient so I just time it but use whatever works for you.
 

GeZ

Smash Lord
Joined
Mar 3, 2013
Messages
1,763
Location
The Speed Force
So when you, or anybody else up walljumps, do you mash the stick horizontally, or do you just try to get the timing down? I feel like it's easier to just mash the stick fast, and i figure that if I can develop my button mashing skills with tornado, why not do the same here?
You just time it. It's more consistent and easy once you get the visual cue down.
 

JackDraz

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jan 17, 2015
Messages
3
Location
London (University Newcastle)
so I guess I'll post this in this thread:

what resources would you all like to see? I would like for this forum to be not-so-dead, and the best way to do that is probably content-creation. also I'm selfish and want to improve as a player. I know schmooblion has been doing a lot of data stuff too, which is awesome.

obviously I'm not a notable player, so everything I do should be scrutinized. but, I've been playing for a long time (~6 years) and have done a lot of theory-crafting stuff. I just suck at application.
Break down a good A Rookie set?
 
Top