We Can Do It! - The Female DLC Character Discussion and Support Thread

[fogbadge]

Look at the 3rd party roster they’re all gaming icons, and most are male except for Bayonetta.

i wouldt say shes an icon

 

[RetrogamerMax]

Look at the 3rd party roster they’re all gaming icons, and most are male except for Bayonetta. Lara Croft would fit right in because she’s also a gaming icon and she’s even more successful than a lot of them too.

Smash is supposed to be a celebration of gaming, and she’s an important part of gaming history. So it’s weird that the most successful female isn’t in the lineup yet.

Well, look how long it took them to put Cloud in or Simon or Banjo & Kazooie. It's very questionable why Lara isn't in yet, but with how long it's taken to get all these other gaming icons in Smash, it's not surprising. Plus she is owned by Square-Enix and Final Fantasy and Dragon Quest are their mascot franchises so it makes sense they wanted Cloud and the Dragon Quest protagonists in first.

i wouldt say shes an icon

Her record and the world would disagree with you:

Guinness World Records - WikiRaider

www.wikiraider.com

Best-selling Square Enix games

This article covers the best-selling Square Enix games and franchises. This includes games made by Squaresoft, Enix, and their 2003 merged corporation, Square Enix. It also includes games by its acquired subsidiaries, Eidos and Taito, from before and after their consolidation. It does not...

vgsales.fandom.com

 

[fogbadge]

Her record and the world would disagree with you:

Guinness World Records - WikiRaider

www.wikiraider.com

Best-selling Square Enix games

This article covers the best-selling Square Enix games and franchises. This includes games made by Squaresoft, Enix, and their 2003 merged corporation, Square Enix. It also includes games by its acquired subsidiaries, Eidos and Taito, from before and after their consolidation. It does not...

vgsales.fandom.com

i was referring to bayo

 

[RetrogamerMax]

i was referring to bayo

Oh... I thought you were referring to Lara.

 

[fogbadge]

Oh... I thought you were referring to Lara.

these things happen

 

[Planet Cool]

I'd be down for Lara Croft. She and Chun-Li are probably the most high-profile female video game characters that aren't in Smash yet. But of course, my heart will always belong to Dixie Kong.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

I'd be down for Lara Croft. She and Chun-Li are probably the most high-profile female video game characters that aren't in Smash yet. But of course, my heart will always belong to Dixie Kong.

I'd also argue Tifa Lockhart.

 

[Mushroomguy12]

I'd be down for Lara Croft. She and Chun-Li are probably the most high-profile female video game characters that aren't in Smash yet. But of course, my heart will always belong to Dixie Kong.

I'd also argue Tifa Lockhart.

People always talk about Ken being the original echo fighter, but there's one that predates even him and is probably even more famous (albeit not a fighting game, but still).

 

[Ornl]

THE LAST ULTIMATE FEMALE

Questions (short version)
For the 2nd Fighter Pass, what would be your credible predictions of one 1st party and/or one 3rd party female rep?
Which of the two would have more chances?

Questions (long version)
Smash seems to be aware that there is a gap to be filled about female rep,
and most of Nintendo's new series since Sm4sh are represented by several female rep:

Will Min Min be the one and only female icon in the Fighter Passes?

On the 3rd party side, Smash has only choice one (true) female to date, and that choice is Bayonetta, the more controversial choice about 3rd party characters. Smash chose Bayonetta, Smash couldn't find better than Bayonetta. It should probably be a very difficult choice. In your opinion, would the absence of heroin from Dragon Quest rep be the omen of having a true heroine? Have you ever tried this difficult exercise of figuring out which female characters would be ultimate in Ultimate? When you proceed by elimination, what possibility remains? This character is supposed to be a more logical choice than and Chun-Li, Jill Valentine and Yuri Kozukata. For the new choice to be 'nonsexist' (sexualized / a sex symbol / a love interest / a princess in distress), add the conditions that these new female character isn't 'sexist' ; who would she be then?

The choices that would be ultimate in my opinion:

• 1st party : Impa.
• 3rd party : The default choice is Lara Croft (because 'nonsexist' ultimate female icon doesn't exist).

I think Impa is the best ultimate choice.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

On the 3rd party side, Smash has only choice one (true) female to date, and that choice is Bayonetta,

I think this isn't fair to Alex.

Yes I'm aware Steve is the default and Alex is a costume, but they've been used simultaneously in marketing. Both even appear on the official website as "Steve / Alex. "

We are at the point where many video games are offering players choice on what gender they want to play as, and Smash has been very good at allowing characters to be either male or female when the option exists.

To say that avatar style characters do not count as a "female rep" because the male option exists isn't fair to those characters. They're avatars, they are meant to be the player and are tools to let the player be themselves in a game. That's about as inclusive as one can possibly get.

 

[Planet Cool]

I think this isn't fair to Alex.

Yes I'm aware Steve is the default and Alex is a costume, but they've been used simultaneously in marketing. Both even appear on the official website as "Steve / Alex. "

It's not fair to Kazooie either. People have all sorts of reasons why she "doesn't count" as a playable female character, and as a fan of hers (and BK in general), it really bums me out.

Kazooie and Nana get a bad rap, honestly. They're always present when you pick the character, and you definitely control them. That's better than a male character with a female skin, imo.

 

[SharkLord]

It's not fair to Kazooie either. People have all sorts of reasons why she "doesn't count" as a playable female character, and as a fan of hers (and BK in general), it really bums me out.

Kazooie and Nana get a bad rap, honestly. They're always present when you pick the character, and you definitely control them. That's better than a male character with a female skin, imo.

Technically Nana should count, since some of their alts have them switch positions. Banjo and Kazooie should count half-and-half, but I think Banjo has a bit of an edge since he's arguably the face of the duo.

 

[Ben Holt]

People always talk about Ken being the original echo fighter, but there's one that predates even him and is probably even more famous (albeit not a fighting game, but still).

Ms. Pac-Man is my most wanted Echo Fighter. She is arguably just as iconic as her husband, and it is a crime that we didn't get her in the base roster.

But with the recent speculation on Crash Bandicoot, I hope we get Coco as an Echo Fighter, not an alt.

 

[SharkLord]

Ms. Pac-Man is my most wanted Echo Fighter. She is arguably just as iconic as her husband, and it is a crime that we didn't get her in the base roster.

But with the recent speculation on Crash Bandicoot, I hope we get Coco as an Echo Fighter, not an alt.

As fun as Coco would be, I feel like having her as anything less that a semiclone would cause some issues with the models.

 

[osby]

THE LAST ULTIMATE FEMALE

Questions (short version)
For the 2nd Fighter Pass, what would be your credible predictions of one 1st party and/or one 3rd party female rep?
Which of the two would have more chances?

Questions (long version)
Smash seems to be aware that there is a gap to be filled about female rep,
and most of Nintendo's new series since Sm4sh are represented by several female rep:

Will Min Min be the one and only female icon in the Fighter Passes?

On the 3rd party side, Smash has only choice one (true) female to date, and that choice is Bayonetta, the more controversial choice about 3rd party characters. Smash chose Bayonetta, Smash couldn't find better than Bayonetta. It should probably be a very difficult choice. In your opinion, would the absence of heroin from Dragon Quest rep be the omen of having a true heroine? Have you ever tried this difficult exercise of figuring out which female characters would be ultimate in Ultimate? When you proceed by elimination, what possibility remains? This character is supposed to be a more logical choice than and Chun-Li, Jill Valentine and Yuri Kozukata. For the new choice to be 'nonsexist' (sexualized / a sex symbol / a love interest / a princess in distress), add the conditions that these new female character isn't 'sexist' ; who would she be then?

The choices that would be ultimate in my opinion:

• 1st party : Impa.
• 3rd party : The default choice is Lara Croft (because 'nonsexist' ultimate female icon doesn't exist).

I think Impa is the best ultimate choice.

Honestly, I have a problem with how wanting more female characters so often boils down to a pissing contest.

You can ask for more girls without putting down others for arbitrary reasons (love interests are sexist? seriously?) or ignoring alt characters like Alex. We have plenty of male characters who aren't "icons" at all, why put so many high standards for female characters?

 

[Ben Holt]

Honestly, I have a problem with how wanting more female characters so often boils down to a pissing contest.

You can ask for more girls without putting down others for arbitrary reasons (love interests are sexist? seriously?) or ignoring alt characters like Alex. We have plenty of male characters who aren't "icons" at all, why put so many high standards for female characters?

I think this is more for third parties as a whole, not female characters.
Dixie Kong, Impa, and Toadette (as an eventual Toad Echo) are all prime picks for Smash 7, but DLC seems to favor third parties heavily.

 

[Professor Pumpkaboo]

Technically Nana should count, since some of their alts have them switch positions. Banjo and Kazooie should count half-and-half, but I think Banjo has a bit of an edge since he's arguably the face of the duo.

If Nana, Villeger, WFT and inkling counts, so should banjo and Kazooie and Byleth and Steve

 

[Perkilator]

If Nana, Villeger, WFT and inkling counts, so should banjo and Kazooie and Byleth and Steve

Only difference with BK is that Kazooie isn't necessarily an alt. She's still part of Banjo's moveset.

 

[Ornl]

Nothing in this thread talked about Alex before, no discussion of female icons in smash talked about Alex, because Alex isn't a 100% female icon unlike all the different suggestions in this thread and other discussions.
The basic question was, can you name any credible "ultimate" choice to represent a 100% female icon who could appear in the FP2?

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Only difference with BK is that Kazooie isn't necessarily an alt. She's still part of Banjo's moveset.

Honestly Banjo and Kazooie operate as a team, so it's their moveset.

Nothing in this thread talked about Alex before, no discussion of female icons in smash talked about Alex, because Alex isn't a 100% female icon unlike all the different suggestions in this thread and other discussions.
The basic question was, can you name any credible "ultimate" choice to represent a 100% female icon who could appear in the FP2?

This sounds like you are just ignoring the female characters who have gotten in.

In a way you're dismissing them as not important.

 

[SharkLord]

Honestly Banjo and Kazooie operate as a team, so it's their moveset.

This is OUR moveset, comrade

 

[Mushroomguy12]

This is OUR moveset, comrade

Now you just made me imagine Banjo and Kazooie doing this pose and face while the Soviet anthem plays.

 

[fogbadge]

This sounds like you are just ignoring the female characters who have gotten in.

In a way you're dismissing them as not important.

that is a good point

although personally i wouldnt count scottish steve as a scottish character

 

[Planet Cool]

If Nana, Villeger, WFT and inkling counts, so should banjo and Kazooie and Byleth and Steve

I agree. There's no such thing as "half a female rep." Either a female character is playable or she isn't.

Of course, there's a gray area here too. For example, is it better to have a female character with a male alt (Wii Fit Trainer, Inkling) than a male character with a female alt (Byleth, Steve, etc)?

 

[Ornl]

This sounds like you are just ignoring the female characters who have gotten in.
In a way you're dismissing them as not important.

Bayonetta is the only 3rd-party 100% female Fighter in Smash Bros.
Smash Bros has yet to choose another 100% female Fighter than Bayonetta from the 3rd-party series.
In your opinion, can you name any credible "ultimate" choice to represent the next 100% female Fighter who could appear in the FP2?

 

[Perkilator]

Bayonetta is the only 3rd-party 100% female Fighter in Smash Bros.
Smash Bros has yet to choose another 100% female Fighter than Bayonetta from the 3rd-party series.
In your opinion, can you name any credible "ultimate" choice to represent the next 100% female Fighter who could appear in the FP2?

• Lara Croft
• Arle Nadja
• 2B
• Jill Valentine

Just to name a few.

 

[Planet Cool]

Don't forget Chun-Li. She's the first ever playable female character in a fighting game. That ought to count for something.

EDIT: Also, Valkyrie. Bamco still needs another rep, and Valk would be a great out-of-left-field pick!

 

[volbound1700]

Idk what other people think, but my cousin, who plays playstation and not nintendo, didn't really know the characters, so she gravitated towards picking girls. This was in brawl so Zero suit, and Zelda specifically. She also chose mostly girls during games like mortal combat and virtua fighter.
It's a subjective preference.

, you have 3 female reps from the Mario series alone, plus Metrics, Zelda, Isabelle, Shrek, Fire Emblem reps, Bayonetta, Pokemon, Pauline, etc. Perhaps it was a problem in Melee but not now. As I pointed out, a lot of the characters are not even human.

I just want the best options, I don't need affirmative action Smash lol.

 

[fogbadge]

, you have 3 female reps from the Mario series alone, plus Metrics, Zelda, Isabelle, Shrek, Fire Emblem reps, Bayonetta, Pokemon, Pauline, etc. Perhaps it was a problem in Melee but not now. As I pointed out, a lot of the characters are not even human.

I just want the best options, I don't need affirmative action Smash lol.

well most of the pokemon could be male or female with only pikachu and pichu being the only ones to have clear female forms

 

[Rie Sonomura]

Don't forget Chun-Li. She's the first ever playable female character in a fighting game. That ought to count for something.

EDIT: Also, Valkyrie. Bamco still needs another rep, and Valk would be a great out-of-left-field pick!

Feel like KOS-MOS would be sooner chosen over Valkyrie though since Valk’s games are JP only I believe. Of course, assuming they don’t pick another series like Tales of or SC

speaking of SC... most people would choose Nightmare as the end all be all rep of SC, but I always associated the series with Sophitia, she’s another great choice

might need to censor her outfit a bit, but yeah

at least she’s not Ivy aka Ms. Peak-Not-For-Good-Boys-And-Girls

 

[fogbadge]

at least she’s not Ivy aka Ms. Peak-Not-For-Good-Boys-And-Girls

i think the owner of that title is already in

 

[Ornl]

Eliminate all reps (and female)
from Bamco / Capcom / Sega

Spoiler: Subjectivity alert!

The existing
• The games Sonic the Hedgehog - Pac-Man - Street Fighter II - Final Fantasy VII - Minecraft are in the World Video Game Hall of Fame ; next to them, there is Tomb Raider. Lara Croft could be the Empress with Sonic, Pac-Man, Ryu, Cloud and Steve.
• The series Metal Gear, Mega Man, Bayonetta, Castlevania, Persona, Dragon Quest, Banjo-Kazooie and King of Fighter (6 in a row!) are less important, but respond to different logics according to Nintendo/Sakurai. When looking to these series, I compare each female with them. If the female doesn't seem respond to any logic to me (it's hard to guess), then so I put her aside.

When looking to other companies (Activision, Arc System Works, Bandai Namco, Blizzard Entertainment, Capcom, Epic Games, Koei Tecmo, Level-5, Marvelous, Microsoft with Bethesda Softworks, Nihon Falcom, Nippon Ichi Software, Sega, Sony Interactive Entertainment, Spike Chunsoft, Square Enix, Ubisoft, Valve Corporation...) and indie games, I compare each female with each series already more or less excluded from being represented by a Fighter in Ultimate (Assassin's Creed, Astral Chain, Bomberman, Cuphead, Daemon X Machina, Fallout, Ganbare Goemon, Katamari, Mana, Monster Hunter, No more Heroes, Octopath Traveler, Rayman, Raving Rabbids, Resident Evil, Sim City, Samurai Shodown, Shantae, Shovel Knight, Tekken, Tetris, The Wonderful 101, Undertale, Virtua Fighter, Warframe...). If the female doesn't seem more important to me than one of them, then I stop visualizing her.

Focus on the 3 companies

Personally, I rule out anyone who would appear in Project X Zone 2 already, in the sense that I don't see new Bamco / Capcom / Sega Fighters for different reasons. It would take a long time to explain then, in summary, it's mainly because the reps are no longer as being "ultimate" in my eyes. Here are some other points:
• Bamco – In my opinion the character that was missing from Bamco was definitely Heihachi. About Tales, I consider that Ultimate has already made the choice to include Hero to represent the JRPG heroes, and that Tales is to JRPGs what Tekken is to fighting games. Furthermore, the ideas :

"____ is possible because it lacks for represent Bamco" ;
"____ is possible because he lacks his Costume" (no Costume in Sm4sh has been upgraded in DLC) ;
"____ is possible because he lacks his Spirit" (but if KOS-MOS had appeared in Spirit, would you say she has a chance to arrive as a Fighter?)...

not enough as arguments to give another Fighter from Bamco. Mametchi, present in Mario Kart GP 2, is missing among the representation of Nintendo's friends in Ultimate ; this doesn't mean that he has a chance. Heihachi was refused, and I don't see anyone else coming from Bamco.
• Capcom – In my opinion, the series that was missing from Capcom was definitely Monster Hunter. The series has already appeared in Costume in Sm4sh (no Costume in Sm4sh has been upgraded in DLC) and already appears in Assist Trophy as Rathalos. About DmC, I consider that the DLC have already made the choice to include Bayonetta instead of Dante to represent the works of Hideki Kamiya. About Resident Evil, I consider the moveset to be the main problem. Monster Hunter also seems out of the way, and I don't see anyone else coming from Capcom.
• Sega – In my opinion, no character is missing from Sega. I love Puyo Puyo and I know the series is iconic, but Arle Nadja is just a random (≠ ultimate) magical girl to me, and I find that Smash is cautious with Puzzle games (Dr. Mario, Tetris).

So here are the women / series included in Project X Zone 2 that I don't see coming:

Bamco	Capcom	Sega
- Kite / .hack	- Maya Fey / Ace Attorney	- Hibana / Nightshade (Shinobi)
- Ciel Alençon, Nana Kazuki and Alisa Ilinichina Amiella / God Eater	- / Captain Commando	- Leanne Resonance / Resonance of Fate
- Natsu / Soulcalibur V	- Morrigan Aensland / Darkstalkers	- Erica Fontaine, Sakura Shinguji and Gemini Sunrise / Sakura Wars
- Aty / Summon Night	- / Devil May Cry	- / Shenmue
- Estellise Sidos Heurassein / Tales of	- Jill Valentine / Resident Evil	- Ulala / Space Channel
- Xiaoyu / Tekken	- June Lin Milliam / Star Gladiator	- / Streets of Rage
- Valkyrie / Valkyrie no Bōken: Toki no Kagi Densetsu	- Chun-Li / Street Fighter	- Pai Chan / Virtua Fighter
- KOS-MOS / Xenosaga	- / Strider	- / Yakuza

"If ____ (one of them) had appeared in Spirit, would I say that she has a chance to come as a Fighter?"

Squenix best favors female characters
Like Capcom, Squenix is full of treasures of different sizes, but those that pay homage to women are mostly at Squenix. Mana/FF has always given great roles to female characters, from Mystic Quest to today, through the very important roles in FF VII, FF XIII and FF: The Spirits Within. About Life is Strange, publishers wanted to change protagonists into men, but "Square is basically the only publisher that didn't want to change a single thing about the game"*
Squenix develops/developed Bravely Default, Final Fantasy, Life is Strange, Parasite Eve and Tomb Raider, and edits/edited Cooking Mama and NieR, series with remarkable female protagonists compared to other companies like Bamco, Capcom, Sega, SNK and Koei Tecmo. Do you remember the topic The Seven Square? Where were the women? If Smash were to receive a 2nd 3rd-party 100% female Fighter, I would prefer that this distinction be offered to Squenix.

 

[CHAMPIONX9]

, you have 3 female reps from the Mario series alone, plus Metrics, Zelda, Isabelle, Shrek, Fire Emblem reps, Bayonetta, Pokemon, Pauline, etc. Perhaps it was a problem in Melee but not now. As I pointed out, a lot of the characters are not even human.

I just want the best options, I don't need affirmative action Smash lol.

Yeah dude, and ARMs creators thought min min was best. People dont like females fighters pass if it excludes their wanted, not because the choices are bad.

 

[Spongeboob]

Yeah dude, and ARMs creators thought min min was best. People dont like females fighters pass if it excludes their wanted, not because the choices are bad.

Could you please clarify what you mean in the underlined statement? Your wording is kind of confusing me. Also, I don't recall the ARMS director claiming that Min Min was best for Smash; I do, however, recall him saying that he wanted Min Min in Smash (not all that surprising since she's his favorite character).

 

[Mushroomguy12]

Some great fanmade 3D renders of Femdrick and Sofia by Mutation Korno.

Had a lot of fun making a few of these! Here are the 4 costumes i have been hyping up!
*RTS and Likes would be appreciated*#SuperSmashBrosUltimate #Pokemon #DragonQuest #Sonic29th #SonicTheHedgehog #FireEmblemThreeHouses pic.twitter.com/8hSgru8SoC

— Korno Morbius 🦋 (@KornoMutated) July 13, 2020

Here before i go to sleep, here's this sophia alt that took awhile to make #Dragonquest #SuperSmashBrosUltimate #SmashUltimate pic.twitter.com/Kd6Rht6znT

— Korno Morbius 🦋 (@KornoMutated) November 15, 2020

 

[UserKev]

I'm all about Ajna from Indivisible, she's my top most wanted Indie, generally speaking. I have some itches for Lara Croft and Coco Bandicoot, but my full support goes to Ajna.

 

[pupNapoleon]

Grunty is technically magical, and a girl.

I say yes, and I demand she has a transformation sequence where she rhymes every line.

I hope I have a dream about this.

 

[Joinallthreacs.smash]

You know who a strong female character is.

QUEEN OF BLADES

QUEEN OF BLADES

 

[Rie Sonomura]

You know who a strong female character is.

View attachment 295534

QUEEN OF BLADES

QUEEN OF BLADES

What’s she from?

 

[Mushroomguy12]

What’s she from?

The Office.

Spoiler

Jokes aside, she’s Kerrigan from Starcraft.