WaveDashing In SSBB

[Green'n'Clean]

He has a point. As others have already pointed out, the L-cancel first appeared as the Z-cancel in the original SSB, which I'm fairly sure was a glitch since it negates all lag time, meaning it was probably an oversight in animation priorities. It tricks the game into allowing you to put up your shield while lagging against the ground, yet abort the shield before it even comes up.

We of course saw this return in SSBM, except modified. Now, instead of cancelling the animations entirely, this technique speeds them up so they're finished in half the time. This is proof of a deliberate returning and reworking of the Z-cancel.

Developer oversights can and do often lead to great inspiration. I don't see why the wavedash couldn't be treated the same way, since most who do use it agree that it helps the game.

Intelligent post. All spammers read this.

 

[shoguning]

I think they should leave it in. It is the advanced techs, WDing and L-cancelling especially, that give melee appeal to tournament players and casual players alike. It separates tourney players from noobs which I think is a good thing. WDing doesnt even effect casual players who are blissfully unaware of its existence so I really cant think of any reason at all to remove it.

 

[nomis]

so flame and know that you're making someone's day decent.

That's the only reason I flame. Glad to know that someone still has a sense of humor in this ill-stricken, serious-toned board!

It just makes me so mad when profanities like ****, ****, ****, tit, nipple, *******, *****, ***, and **** & balls are intended towards other people! Ugh!

And is this board really becoming a war? Is it wrong to retaliate with an opinion towards an other's opinion? I don't even sense a flame war, wth? Am I not reading between the lines or something? Maybe I should have a disclaimer in my sig or something.

If you're wondering, flaming is all fun and games to me. Flaming is amusing, just think of it as a sitcom! Sit down, shut up, and watch. Then when other cast members join in the fray, it all becomes one big happy family.

And that's what we are, a huge, enormous family of stubborn gamers with too much pride.

***text to label this post as not spam*** WDing is awesome. It should be left in.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

@Shoguning
It's affect not effect in that context and you're just repeating what previous people have said , I'm not going to repeat myself to you, read back over the previous pages.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

I expect that the wavedash will make a return in SSBB. They'll probably nerf it by giving characters like Luigi, Mario, Marth, Shiek, etc., more traction though (the reason why Bowser barely moves when you do it). Thing is: without WDing, you remove an important feature from the game: Being able to move backwards while facing forwards. I think, knowing the impact WDing has had on the game, Sakurai will leave it in the game, but balance it just the way the Z cancel was turned into the essential L cancel of SSBM.

 

[nomis]

Also, Nomis those are times I'm looking forward too ( nice your mom jokes :D)

By the way, thanks. I learned them from YOUR MOM LMAO!!!!

I expect that the wavedash will make a return in SSBB. They'll probably nerf it by giving characters like Luigi, Mario, Marth, Shiek, etc., more traction though (the reason why Bowser barely moves when you do it). Thing is: without WDing, you remove an important feature from the game: Being able to move backwards while facing forwards. I think, knowing the impact WDing has had on the game, Sakurai will leave it in the game, but balance it just the way the Z cancel was turned into the essential L cancel of SSBM.

That would suck; to nerf WD's for the 'lower tier' characters, like Luigi, would suck. I'm all for nerfing WD's from 'higher tier' characters though.

Wait, I take that back, I want wavedash to be nerfed in terms of the Z to L-cancel transition. That meaning WDing would still be vital/very useful in terms of competitive play.

Or just make WDing better for lower tier characters.

 

[Doctor X]

Wavedashing will, of course, be in the Brawl. Take a second look at the Brawl movie trailer. You see the part where Mario and Link are fighting and Snake and those dudes are talking? Mario wavelands. This means wavedashes are included.

**Edit** Sorry if this was posted, I didn't wanna read it all.

Holy crap! Everyone who missed this, bring up the trailer and watch Mario very carefully when Link shoots him with an arrow around 2:20. There's really no other way he could have moved like that.

Very interesting... If it was a waveland it seems the sliding distance is being decreased a bit, as has been speculated in this thread.

Edit: Sorry I missed Nomis's statement, I didn't see that discussion since I wasn't posting here two weeks ago. That being said, I still think it looks like a waveland seeing as his feet do not move, and he even seems to crouch slightly in typical wavedash fasion.

In Melee, there is no other way he could have moved like this, though I'm willing to accept that the walking animations might be changed slightly, so it's quite likely the same won't be true in Brawl. In the end it doesn't really matter. As has been said by devellopers, this video is still aways off from the final product, anyway.

 

[Deleted member]

Wavedashing. Why does everyone revere it like a God? Sure it can make all the difference in SSBM (don't pretend it doesn't), but will it really be that important in Brawl? Concentrating on replicating past skills is good, but not to the point that we forget that the game may have other glitches/ secrets we can exploit. I imagine wavedashing will be become much like the L-Cancel, needed yes, but not lorded over, especially in the light of the Brawl moves. I also hope the developers have the sense to leave in some of the glitches they find, at least the ones that effect gameplay movement.

No flames people, I combust easily.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Holy crap! Everyone who missed this, bring up the trailer and watch Mario very carefully when Link shoots him with an arrow around 2:20. There's really no other way he could have moved like that.

Very interesting... If it was a waveland it seems the sliding distance is being decreased a bit, as has been speculated in this thread.

Please PLEASE read Nomis' post above, this has been gone over before.

 

[Sensai]

Holy crap! Everyone who missed this, bring up the trailer and watch Mario very carefully when Link shoots him with an arrow around 2:20. There's really no other way he could have moved like that.

Very interesting... If it was a waveland it seems the sliding distance is being decreased a bit, as has been speculated in this thread.

Please tell me you're joking.

It does look like a Waveland, or a weird WD. I don't think it is though. I think he hits the ground, walks VERY slightly, and then attacks.

 

[phanna]

Like I said in WD'ing the Wi²:

-----------------

There's been a lot of whining that I'm not going to read through, so if this has been said, forgive me:

Wavedashing is perfectly normal given the engine for smash. Characters with momentum slide, depending on their weight, and the surface they are on. This makes sense, it's from the real world, and is certainly plausible in a video game.

Jumping, too, is perfectly normal. Once again, it relates to our real world of Newton's 2nd law, as well as the effects of Gravity.

Air dodging and double-jumping are NOT NORMAL. At all. Yet, they are AWESOME, and are critically definitive to the style and overall gameplay of smash. Wavedashing is simply a consequence of allowing a character to suddenly displace himself mid-air. If you have a problem with the game, request that air-dodging (and multi-jumps, if you so feel) be removed, since they are what "you can't do in real life." Or you could grow up and realize that this is a game, and that wave dashing is not an exploit, but emergent behavior: natural, expected, and conforming action as a result of the simple ruleset of the video game (read: not reality).

Summary:

Ability to jump + laws of momentum & friction + ability to aerially displace oneself => wave dashing

If you don't like that equation, have Wes translate your request to remove either a character's ability to jump, have momentum, experience friction, or air-dodge removed. The end. Never post whining about wavedashing again, under penalty of a nuclear wedgie.

 

[ShortRoundMcfly]

I know free speech isn't allowed on this forum and dissention will get you a warn. Instead of posting a long essay on how professional players in other games would simply get better at the alloited moves instead of tricking and exploiting the game engine, I'll just try and keep it brief.

I want wavedashing out of the game just because of the sheer snobbiness and elitism that these exploits create in the community. It creates a huge rift in the fanbase, a rift that many people use to condescend to the lesser players and to discredit and devalue them; much like the moderator in the opening post did. Before you make your predictable, cookie cutter rebutles about how much I suck at SSBM, I'd like to say that yes, I can wavedash, L-cancel and I've seen it's application in battle.

I just think it's a travesty that some people will go through great lengths to trick the game engine and basically cheat, and then hold lesser players who don't wish to do so in low favor.

Generally, you wouldn't see this sort of conflict in other games because in a game like say... Halo 2 the pros have the same moveset as the newbs. Eventually with enough time and effort, a newb can master the same move set as a pro and in time will become one. With SSBM, if somone picked up the game and never researched WDing and L-canceling and all the other frame canceling techniques, he would simply have the limited pool of moves to master and simply get better at playing the pure version of the game; but in your eyes he would never be seen as a "smasher". I for one, don't want a community that's so cruely divided.

P.S: I know this will come up, so for the record, I do NOT consider Fast falling, walljumping, short-hopping, powershielding, teching or anything else that did not come out of my mouth cheating.

 

[Doctor X]

Please tell me you're joking.

It does look like a Waveland, or a weird WD. I don't think it is though. I think he hits the ground, walks VERY slightly, and then attacks.

His feet do not move. He slides.

 

[maelstrom218]

I know free speech isn't allowed on this forum and dissention will get you a warn. Instead of posting a long essay on how professional players in other games would simply get better at the alloited moves instead of tricking and exploiting the game engine, I'll just try and keep it brief.

I want wavedashing out of the game just because of the sheer snobbiness and elitism that these exploits create in the community. It creates a huge rift in the fanbase, a rift that many people use to condescend to the lesser players and to discredit and devalue them; much like the moderator in the opening post did. Before you make your predictable, cookie cutter rebutles about how much I suck at SSBM, I'd like to say that yes, I can wavedash, L-cancel and I've seen it's application in battle.

I just think it's a travesty that some people will go through great lengths to trick the game engine and basically cheat, and then hold lesser players who don't wish to do so in low favor.

Generally, you wouldn't see this sort of conflict in other games because in a game like say... Halo 2 the pros have the same moveset as the newbs. Eventually with enough time and effort, a newb can master the same move set as a pro and in time will become one. With SSBM, if somone picked up the game and never researched WDing and L-canceling and all the other frame canceling techniques, he would simply have the limited pool of moves to master and simply get better at playing the pure version of the game; but in your eyes he would never be seen as a "smasher". I for one, don't want a community that's so cruely divided.

P.S: I know this will come up, so for the record, I do NOT consider Fast falling, walljumping, short-hopping, powershielding, teching or anything else that did not come out of my mouth cheating.

The "elitism" that you perceive results from us viewing Smash as an actual, competitive fighter rather than a party game. Had Nintendo simply advertised the game as a true fighter (a la GGXX, SF: Third Strike, Tekken), then I doubt many children would say to their parents "look, Ma!!! I want to play competitively at tournaments so I can go to Evo 2005!!!" By Nintendo's decision to make Smash a party game, while also catering to the competitive community (the inclusion of preventing item spawns and the production of the PAL version), THEY were the ones who created the rift, not us.

"Elitism" as you view it is omnipresent in every fighting game community--the people there take their games seriously. Go to any competitive gaming message board--shoryuken.com or dustloop.com--and you'll see people who delve into technicalities and intricate details like frame data. And guess what? When they're confronted with people who have no patience for learning terminology, advanced techniques, and tournament-level skills, they're treated with contempt. Because they don't belong there.

And the same goes here, as well. We're competitive. We like to win. We care about game theory because it'll make us better. If there's something that can be done that'll improve our game, and/or our options--like wavedashing--then we'll use it to our advantage. Because after all, being competitive means that we like to win. None of us like to lose.

And if you feel that wavedashing is "cheap" or "an unfair exploitation of the game engine," then you're certainly free to feel that way. Just realize that we use things in the game--whether intentional or not--that will help us win. Because that's what being competitive is all about.

And for the record, the majority of fighting games created in the past few decades have always had competitive communities built around them--and these communities found and "exploited" the physics engines just as we smashers do now. Super cancelling in Street Fighter, or Option Selecting/Dust Looping in GGXX were all abuses of the physics engine in those respective games--yet no one complained about "divided communities" then, because those games were fighters from the start. Smash is catering to multiple audiences, hence why you perceive a split.

If Smash was viewed only as a party game, then there wouldn't be a competitive community. If Smash was marketed only as competitive game, then there wouldn't be such a casual crowd of gamers.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Maelstrom is correct.

I'd also like to point out that there are plenty of bugs in Halo and Halo 2. Whether they're useful or not isn't something I know, but I'm aware that there were invisibility exploits among other things. There are unuseful bugs in SSBM too.

 

[Sensai]

Maelstrom is correct.

I'd also like to point out that there are plenty of bugs in Halo and Halo 2. Whether they're useful or not isn't something I know, but I'm aware that there were invisibility exploits among other things. There are unuseful bugs in SSBM too.

Yo-Yo glitch, Black-Hole...

Sure, it could be useful, but it'll NEVER happen, not in anything serious at least.

 

[ShortRoundMcfly]

The "elitism" that you perceive results from us viewing Smash as an actual, competitive fighter rather than a party game. Had Nintendo simply advertised the game as a true fighter (a la GGXX, SF: Third Strike, Tekken), then I doubt many children would say to their parents "look, Ma!!! I want to play competitively at tournaments so I can go to Evo 2005!!!" By Nintendo's decision to make Smash a party game, while also catering to the competitive community (the inclusion of preventing item spawns and the production of the PAL version), THEY were the ones who created the rift, not us.

"Elitism" as you view it is omnipresent in every fighting game community--the people there take their games seriously. Go to any competitive gaming message board--shoryuken.com or dustloop.com--and you'll see people who delve into technicalities and intricate details like frame data. And guess what? When they're confronted with people who have no patience for learning terminology, advanced techniques, and tournament-level skills, they're treated with contempt. Because they don't belong there.

The Elitism you see in other competitive gaming communities is completely different. The pro version of Super Smash Brothers Melee and the "newb" version is almost a completely different game. Basically, I don't want two different versions of SSBB either. I want people to fight competitively, but I want them to fight within the boundries set in the game.

And the same goes here, as well. We're competitive. We like to win. We care about game theory because it'll make us better. If there's something that can be done that'll improve our game, and/or our options--like wavedashing--then we'll use it to our advantage. Because after all, being competitive means that we like to win. None of us like to lose.

And if you feel that wavedashing is "cheap" or "an unfair exploitation of the game engine," then you're certainly free to feel that way. Just realize that we use things in the game--whether intentional or not--that will help us win. Because that's what being competitive is all about.

Very well put. When this statement is used in other games, it holds water because it can be argued that, "The developers put it in the game so it's fair." In this case, that can't be said. Your just tricking the game engine into doing what you want.

 

[Oskurito]

Haaaa!!! i was waitin for this topic... i ve seen the trailer but didnt kno about mario wavelandin but i hope WD stays. IM a very good player my self and i THink wave dash MUST stay in the game because if it doesnt stay is going to disappoint the hole pro comunity. I mean Fox without waveshine, sux! and Luigi is going to fall really down if they dont live it in. I hope L-cancel stays or im goin to cry ****, FALCO WITHOUT L-CANCEL??? say bye bye to Spike shine combos... FAlco really need those FF l-canceled aerials beacause thats why he's so good

I think Nintendo will make Brawl more easier than the other Smash games so the people who dont play much will enjoy the game and buy it ($$$ moves the world you kno) and for the people" that usually dont play "(xD noobs) itll be the same or even more fun. For the pros itll be (if WD and L-cancel dont stay) boring or not the same as before. I was so worried about this topic and i was wondering if WD is going to stay in the game OH MAN, ITS REALLY GOING TO DISAPPOINT EVERYONE!!!! Holas From Peru. IM SMoke maybe the best Falco player in PERU(sorry about my english)

 

[Skylink]

yeah, work on your English.

I think it would have a tremendous impact on the pro community if Wavedashing, or even L canceling or stuff like the fox trot and shuffling were to be removed. The basic fundamentals of attacking and defending would no longer exist, and there would be no way to fight without using brute power, items, and luck. With that said, I'd be much happier to see all advanced techniuqes return.

 

[X6488]

L-Cancelling will stay, for sure. I'm certain it was in the first Super Smash Bros. as well as SSBM.

Personally, I could see wavedashing being put into the game or not; I don't care much towards either side. I wavedash a lot in Melee, but taking it out would not be the death of competitive playing in general. The only problem I see is that a hightened breed of elitism will spawn if they don't put wavedashing in.
Many "pros" will think that the game is inferior due to the lack of that one movement. This isn't a guess; if wavedashing is taken out, this inferiority complex is inevitable. People will stick to SSBM just because of that and the series will crumble. Inability to accept things like that is what makes a series fall apart.

My opinion on wavedashing in SSBB:
I'd prefer it not be in the game, but it has a high probablity of killing the series for "pros". Either way, it's going to be the first game I get for Nintendo's next generation.

 

[Twin Dreams]

I'm too lazy to go back and repost what I said. I'll sum it up.



Wave dashing isn't really that great. The only reason why it is used so often is that it is easier than the alternatives, which when used in their specified situations, have a better out come.

It's kinda like medication. Wave Dashing is the broad spectrum medication that can be used to affectively combat many types of bacteria, however, there are more specific things (Dash Dancing, Crouch cancel dashes, Pivoting) that are better in specific situations.



If SSBB is exactly like SSBM without wave dashing, then all we do is replace the generic with the variety of specifics.

 

[PaperBoyDave]

^^umm you can say the same for wding. your post had point. "if you use wd in a specified situation, then it's better than dash dancing" and vice versa... i'm not saying you're totally wrong, but wd CAN be better than those other moves in "specified situations" too.

i'm probably late, but i only read one post the past few days.

shortroundmcfly, how is wding cheating? just because you know how to wd doesn't mean you'll win. i don't know if anyone noticed, but..........wding does 0% of damage..........

 

[DokturSea]

I'm late...oh well. I think wavedashing IS fair. I mean, honestly, it doens't get you that far, and its **** hard to pull off. So if you can actually do it and use it to your advantage freely, then you've earned the right to use it whenever.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Wow this thread just repeatedly repeats itself, I posted in here before when we got to a point when most of the INTELLIGENT people had agreed on certain things (read green kirby's post) and yet still more off you just enter here, repost EXACTLY what has been said already completely ignoring previous pages, try reading.

Also PaperBoyDave, saying wavedash does 0% dmg is the worst arguement case I have heard, at least its a new one though.

Just to calrify, to all those people saying "oh if it goes the balance will be screwed":
brawl is a different game, the characters will not have the same balance as they have now so that arguement holds no water (not that it did anyway seeing as it doesn't balance the game anymore as it is). If people think luigi is going to be awfull simply because WD isn't in there please remember that this is a sequel qith a different engine, luigi will be changed much like many other characters so there is no point in you arguing that you want WD in to keep your char good. Oh and for the record to all you people who can#t be arsed to read back over the DECENT posts, I CAN WD perfectly fine and I'm NOT anti-WD, I don't give a **** whether it's in or not.

 

[the_suicide_fox]

I think the biggest problem is just the set knockback. The fact that the shine has the same knockback at 0% and 999% is the #1 reason that an infinite is possible. And yeah, making sure that every character would fall down or fly up would help too.

If all characters fall over then that means 1) Knockback doesn't matter since you could tech it, and even if you don't you could probably roll or do a get up attack before Fox can combo you and 2) if the Fox tries to shinespike you, you can wall tech if you are good enough. This makes it so it's avoidable but it takes skill to do it.

Also I think what may end up happening with the WD is they will make it so when you land from an air dodge you go into a special roll animation that is fast w/ little lag but you won't be invincible. That way they could include it in the game manual. Plus L-Canceling should be in the manual

 

[Pylon]

I agree with Inferno blaze in that people need to remember this is a new and different game. Granted, it is a sequel, and it will be similar, but the game creators can do whatever they want to change stuff. I think that wave dash, or at least something similar, will still be an important part of the series, similar to how z-canceling became l-canceling and some of its benefits were taken away.

I agree with ShortRoundMcfly that this game has created two different groups of players: the "pros" who take advantage of every feature of the game, and the "noobs" who play the game with the traditional punches, smashes, and jumps that the instruction book teaches you. Personally, I don't really like this division. It is a source of condescension and bitterness between the groups. Just look at the names this board gives to them! Pros and noobs. I think we can all see the positive and negative connotations in both of those.

I don't think that Nintendo likes this gap. The Wii is supposed to be about inclusion and making all gamers feel welcome. I doubt that they willl endorse anything that goes against the core belief of their new system and marketing strategy. (Unless, of course, it makes them more money.) I think that if the wave dash makes a return, it will definitely be in a more toned downed form that all players will be able to take advantage of, and the dedicated pros will have to hunt around for new bugs/glitches/techniques to manipulate. Which really is what made SSBM such a great game to begin with. Try and remember the excitement you felt at first hearing about the advanced techniques or seeing some amazing video. I think Nintendo will want to recapture that, and gamers will have to work to find their "cheap" tools.

 

[Oskurito]

Sorry Inferno but i think is not fair that WD wont stay and i dont care if u can wavedash perfectly, the thing is most smashers want WD in Brawl and is not fair that Nintendo is not going to put it because they dont like it .What if they remove all the bugs? maybe you cant even DD in brawl will u still playing it? and if u cant L-cancel??? u will play? I simply wont buy it if u cant do that...

My friend saw the trailer yesterday and he said that mario waveland when he's fighting with link or something like that... but i dont think its true i havent seen it yet because im from Peru and i need that **** DVD with the trailer on it. Seriously I believe that they are not going to put any of this "techniques" and according to my friend nintendo is going to clear every bug... I hope L-cancel stays but WD is going out..

 

[Inferno_blaze]

Oh for *bleeps* sake, I didn't say I don't want/think it won't be in there, christ maybe you should try like I said in that post reading the older pages, as has previously been stated, I believe that they will change WD and incorporate it into the game as a proper move like they did with z-canceling to
l-canceling. PLEASE don't make judgements like that oh and another point, you say most smashers want it, this is not true, most smashers do not even know about WD.

 

[Pylon]

Calm down. Allow me to clarify.

I agree with Inferno blaze in that people need to remember this is a new and different game. Granted, it is a sequel, and it will be similar, but the game creators can do whatever they want to change stuff.

I was agreeing with this statement.

...please remember that this is a sequel qith a different engine, luigi will be changed much like many other characters so there is no point in you arguing...

That's all I meant. Maybe you would have understood more clearly had I put in another paragraph break there.
And I think that I'm entitled to post my opinion here, even if it's already been mentioned. That’s what the guy who made the thread said.

OK- You may give your opinion, but only if you feel your responses are intelligent.
I don't want to see anyone being called a noob or any other flames.

Please take note of that last line, and allow me to express my opinions. I’m sorry if you thought I misquoted you.
I'd like to be done with the argument here, but if you're going to bring this up again, I'd like to know what judgements I made that offended you, and what it is that I said most smashers want. I don't quite understand what you're referencing.

 

[nomis]

Pylon: I think Inferno was responding to Oskurito.

 

[Pylon]

Well, don't I look silly. No wonder I was confused.

Sorry, all. Thanks, nomis.

 

[Infintium]

Wavedashing as a polarizing force

Wavedashing is a polarizing force, creating two distinct groups: Those that can and those that cannot. With Melee out four and a half years, wavedashing has become widely known. The question comes up in designing the next game as to whether or not to consider wavedashing when making and balancing the game. Obviously if it is to remain, it must be a factor in balance. Relative power and utility of character's moves will be weakened to compensate for added functionality gained through wavedashing.

Now up to now, this is all well and good. But consider the friendly casual SSBB player who sits at home, playing with friends. He may or may not have heard about wavedashing, but he doesn't use it, either due to lack of skill, lack of knowledge, or what have you. Wavedashing now affects him. His favorite character is not performing up to par with that of his friend's character, who seems better in every way. Unbeknownst to him, he has a very potent character, but only potent when used with wavedashing.

The expert Smasher may say, "There is no problem, this player simply needs to learn to play the game or pick a new character." This mindset creates several problems. First, there is likely no official description of this technique. Sure, he could discover it on his own, slowly perfecting it and attaining a higher knowledge of the game, but this is outside his prowess. Second, it further polarizes the characters into "casual friendly" and "expert only" categories. Many characters become 'Pichus' in a sense; the handicapped characeter in the hands of the majority of those who play the game, not performing up to par with others.

Consider one of the major aspects wavedashing adds to the game: Backwards movement while facing forward. This plays an important role for any pro Smasher's game. But simply put, it's unintended. Characters do not have the normal ability to moonwalk for a reason. You may say, "But it adds depth and strategy to the game." This is certainly true, but depth and strategy cannot go without limits. As a very blatent example, consider if there was a certain button combination that allowed characters to have free flight. This certainly adds depth and strategy to the game. But it makes the game outright stupid. The game shifts away from its intended functionality and shifts towards who can free flight the best. Wavedashing has similar residual effects. It removes consequences from certain actions, speeds up other actions, and gives a level of control that wasn't intended.

In closing, wavedashing is an unnecessary complication in the game, which acts equally as augmenting and restricting force. While it opens up new possiblities in the game, it stifles further development, as every new addition must be seen in the context of what it becomes with wavedashing. My concern is that wavedashing may become incorporated into the game so heavily that its playability becomes limited without the technique and that other great ideas (character skills, game mechanics) may lose potency or be left out completely because of their interaction with wavedashing.

However, if wavedashing is transferred to Brawl and left as an invisible effect to balance, then I concede that there is no problem.

 

[Paranoid_Android]

Couldn't you have just said "Wavedashing creates a gap between experts who will say "You should just learn how to do it or pick up a different character" and casual players who either do not know or do not have the capacity to do so" instead of writing an essay? Anyway...


In response, I'd like to ask how WaveDashing is different than any other move? With the Voice Communication that I am hoping for in SSBB online, casual players will be taught by experienced pros how to do it. "What the hell is that?", "Jump and then dodge back to the ground diagonally".
What about the L Cancel? A lot of 'casual' players don't really know what it is. Does this mean that they can't learn? Because it's not common, casual knowledge, should it be removed?

Above all, the thing I don't get is the time-and-effort part of your argument. You essentially state that it should be removed because it's hard to do. Isn't playing smash competitively, even if the wavedash didn't exist, difficult? Tournament winning smashers would still be the pros if the wavedash didn't exist: It's not some rift that divides the pros from the newbies, because without the WD, a pro still always beats a newbie. Thus, I think that rather than being THE rift, WD is just part of what goes on the otherside of the rift created by the will to be competitive in the game.

 

[Antiself]

Looking at L/Z canceling; they made it seem more natural. They could do the same for wavedashing. EX: Jump, air dodge into the ground and your player looks like they're walking, but your able to do any attack in this walk. Boom! Just like wavedashing, but looks a lot less cheesy.

 

[Drunken_Dragon]

Ive seen threads like this for many other games.




if you dont like high level strats/techs, then play casualy. imo, if you complain/dislike something about the high level play, you are casual, or shoudlent be playing.



CD mixup in tekken, Infinites in marvel, short bar supers in 3S, loop combos in GG.


it happens, at least in smash you have way more freedom of dealing with said "problems"




moving as effeciently as possible isent a glitch.


my two pennies.

 

[Inferno_blaze]

It's already been agreed by the those who seem to be the most intelligent (listening to both sides) that it IS a glitch, as infinitium said if you could press some buttons which made your cahracter unintentionally fly, that would be moving efficientl, but it's a glitch none the less

What's with the massive spacing between paragraphs and WD isn't a "high level strat" primarily because it isn't a strategy.

 

[the_suicide_fox]

For some reason I posted when I wanted to PM. WTF? Sorry

Ignore me ...

 

[phanna]

Since some people apparently still haven't gotten it yet:

Ability to jump + laws of momentum & friction + ability to aerially displace oneself => wave dashing

It's a glitch if you feel it's not supposed to be there, so arguing over what we call it is a fruitless endeavor. Simply do 2 things:

1) accept that wave dashing is a natural consequence of the current game engine (for better or for worse)

2) if you don't like wave dashing, propose a reasonable change, which could ONLY be one of the following:
- eliminate a characters ability to jump
- eliminate a characters ability to air dodge
- eliminate a characters ability to slide

It is my belief that any of those would, in fact, not be reasonable, and therefore, wavedashing is fine, since it's the natural consequence of the game environment.

If you really hate wavedashing, you could propose that programmers go out of their way to ensure that air-dodging to the ground nullified the characters momentum. But you should also notice that leaving it in is the simple, natural answer - and that to get rid of wavedashing would require extra steps that wouldn't make sense otherwise.

 

[BrTarolg]

meh wavedash will only have a positive impact on the game, i cnat possible see much wrnog with it, even if it is a glitch.

 

[PaperBoyDave]

Also PaperBoyDave, saying wavedash does 0% dmg is the worst arguement case I have heard, at least its a new one though.

it wasn't an argument, it's true....also, you infer from the "intelligent" people that it is a glitch? Those big words really get ya huh?