wat do against smash spammers?

[ShineSpikeOverpowered]

This is how I play my falco:

• I don't c-stick spam, but I use it a lot more often when the enemy is at a high percent.
• For finishing moves, I try to roll behind the enemy and let loose a c-stick f-smash, short hop nair/bair them, or u-smash occasionally instead of the f-smash.
• Instead of C-stick spamming, I short-hop nair/bair/dair to approach enemies, I don't use lasers that much, and I try to do u-tilts, to juggle the enemy around before u-smashing, and I try to shine-dair them but I can only get usaully one shine-dair off of them.
• I use air attacks far more often then smashes
• I can't wavedash consistently, and can't waveshine

 

[OverLord]

First of all:

- stop rolling
- learn to wavedash and waveshine perfectly
- learn to SHFFL an aerial (short-hop, fast-fall, l-cancel)

Then, to not get ***** by random players who just fsmash:

- bait their fsmash, wait for their mistake and just punish, actually the advices "dont' get hit", "don't play stupid" and stuff were all good advices.

 

[BairJew]

^do that if you want to be good

If you just want to beat these people, stand at the edge and shieldgrab their fsmash, bthrow them off, then run off dj dair their immediate double jump

eventually you might have to SHL to make them approach, but you canjust shield grab whatever they do

 

[ShineSpikeOverpowered]

f-smash knocks me back when i shield so i dun able to shieldgrab

 

[noobird]

shield di the fsmash toward them. Anyway if all they're doing is f smashing it should be pretty obvious what they're doing. You can just jump over them and pretty much do whatever you want.

 

[username12345678]

- bait their fsmash, wait for their mistake and just punish

This. wavedash back is your friend.

also this

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=310776

 

[Jasou]

Yeah overlord's advice is pretty solid. (all the other advice here will work as well)
You can also get near them and dash dance a little to make them throw out a fsmash, as long as you make sure the dash dance is short enough that you can punish their fsmash.
and I had problems vs people who did that when i was starting to be more serious in smash as well, but it eventually becomes easy to deal with.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I asked advice from other people, but all they replied was "Don't get hit" "Dont play dumb" "Think while you play" "Don't be an idiot".

I think this actually made my day.






Okay, more serious answer.

Why don't you just shoot them with lasers? Lasers stun. People can't do forward smash when they're stunned. You can then follow up from the laser with... aerials... and various other moves because the stun from the laser is enough that you probably won't be f-smashed. And if you are f-smashed, you probably had horrible spacing or did it wrong in some other way.

 

[ShineSpikeOverpowered]

problem is solved.

I run into them and shield then they fsmash and I jump out iwt SH laser FF, shine cancel, nair, repeat, and SH dair to edgeguard.

Now, I facing with people who constantly roll behind and c-stick. -.- wat do.

 

[Life]

Walk up to them (just outside attack range) and dash dance to grab?

 

[Problem2]

SHL just outside of their attack range. Adjust your spacing so that in one short hop, you can make yourself overlap your opponent when he/she tries to roll towards you. Simply react to the roll when it happens and do some shine combos or something.

 

[Bones0]

I just don't play with people who play cheap and spam c-stick. There's no realistic way around it so just ask them to stop or else stop playing with them. Case closed.

 

[Jasou]

If you can read their rolls they are pretty easy to punish. If you aren't sure where they are going to roll you should start trying to read them. Jump cancelled grabs are pretty fast so they work well with punishing rolls, I used JC grabs on my friend when he rolled too much. If you do happen to grab them and are not sure where to throw, throw them near the edge so you can setup for a spike. If you are not good at setting up spikes or doing them I suggest you practice them.

 

[ShineSpikeOverpowered]

Jump grab? Never heard of it.

 

[noobird]

Maybe go learn some ats first. and then just **** them >.>

 

[Jasou]

It is called a jump cancelled grab, in short it's called JC grab.
The purpose of a JC grab is to run while doing your standing grab instead of your running grab. Now you may be thinking why would I need to do that? Well, it's because your standing grab animation is a lot faster then your running grab. It's useful because it's a lot harder to punish. Basically if you JC grab instead of your normal running grab you will be a lot faster and if you miss a read you can escape.

JC grabs are also useful for chain grabbing. (but falco has no chain grab, so if your playing him you can ignore this statement.)

To do a JC grab: run > jump (I suggest x or y) > right after you press the jump button press z. This technique may seem hard but it's actually fairly easy. I suggest practicing it in training mode, you can tell you did it wrong when falco does his running grab animation instead of standing.

The only disadvantage to this technique is that your running grab range will be reduced by a small amount (I think, if i'm wrong please correct me)
O and just a clarification, JC grabs can be done on all characters.

 

[bossa nova ♪]

if they're rolling behind you enough for you to say that their main strategy is rolling behind you... then you should be punishing the roll. "c-stick" them.

 

[FoxLisk]

you can always just learn tech skill and kill the **** out of them

 

[Bones0]

Jump grab? Never heard of it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4n4s5yB7ZkE

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shoot them with lasers.

 

[mesa23]

shl + csticking them is really broken

if you want another broken trick though, try downthrow to dsmash

its almost as broken as rolling then csticking

 

[Jolteon]

I just don't play with people who play cheap and spam c-stick. There's no realistic way around it so just ask them to stop or else stop playing with them. Case closed.

yeah these noobs really piss me off as well, they don't play this game how it was intended to be played.

 

[ryankam10]

it doesnt matter how you play as long as you win. if spamming side smash helps you win, then do it. eventually your opponents will catch on and you will have to re-adapt your style to get on top again.

Other than that though, there's a good reason people spam falco's c-stick, it has deceptively long range, super long lasting hitbox... it stops recoveries from above because it hits people above you.. sort of.. plus it's hard to shield grab if space it. it's just a very high pressure move and it's REALLY good if you use it properly.

 

[L!nk!n]

yeah these noobs really piss me off as well, they don't play this game how it was intended to be played.

Lol. You guys are saying that if people c-stick spam against you, you loose, and then you rage about how they lack tech skill and should know how to play the game? Grow up, just beat them, THEN say how THEY should play the game. 'Case Closed'.

 

[ryankam10]

Lol. You guys are saying that if people c-stick spam against you, you loose, and then you rage about how they lack tech skill and should know how to play the game? Grow up, just beat them, THEN say how THEY should play the game. 'Case Closed'.

pretty much this

 

[Jolteon]

Lol. You guys are saying that if people c-stick spam against you, you loose, and then you rage about how they lack tech skill and should know how to play the game? Grow up, just beat them, THEN say how THEY should play the game. 'Case Closed'.

this would make sense if there was a way around broken c-stick spam but there just isn't, it is too broken and takes no skill at all.

 

[ryankam10]

I just don't play with people who play cheap and spam c-stick. There's no realistic way around it so just ask them to stop or else stop playing with them. Case closed.

Rofl really? Is this what you really do? That's really freaking sad dude. If you refuse to play with them your basically throwing your hands up and basically refusing to learn how to beat it. And there are ways around it, lots of ways. if you refuse to learn thats not their fault, and they're probably better than you anyways in that they realize your too dense to adapt to c-stick spam, and so they continue to use it (with success) against you

 

[ryankam10]

this would make sense if there was a way around broken c-stick spam but there just isn't, it is too broken and takes no skill at all.

if you refuse to play a certain way because you think it's 'cheap' or 'unfair' you have no grounds to complain when someone plays that way against you.

 

[ShineSpikeOverpowered]

If you can read their rolls they are pretty easy to punish. If you aren't sure where they are going to roll you should start trying to read them. Jump cancelled grabs are pretty fast so they work well with punishing rolls, I used JC grabs on my friend when he rolled too much. If you do happen to grab them and are not sure where to throw, throw them near the edge so you can setup for a spike. If you are not good at setting up spikes or doing them I suggest you practice them.

Will Wavedash Edgehog and Short hop dair be reliable against marth and falco?

 

[KirbyKaze]

Shoot them with your ****ing gun and then hit them with moves because frame advantage after laser makes roll spam or f-smash unviable.

 

[Jasou]

Shoot them with your ****ing gun and then hit them with moves because frame advantage after laser makes roll spam or f-smash unviable.

This is actually really good advice and short hop laser isn't a very difficult technique to learn (be sure to practice fast falling it)

You should always try to edgehog or edgeguard (it all depends on how far off they are and what character they are using) and wavedash is useful if you can do it cleanly. Short hop fast fall dair l-cancel if your going to use dair from short hop. (this is known as a shffl). At first shffls take practice though, so just take Kaze's advice because he is right.

 

[choknater]

lmao. this thread is certainly unique. best of luck in your endeavors, OP

(next mango)

 

[Problem2]

SHL just outside of their attack range. Adjust your spacing so that in one short hop, you can make yourself overlap your opponent when he/she tries to roll towards you. Simply react to the roll when it happens and do some shine combos or something.

Shoot them with your ****ing gun and then hit them with moves because frame advantage after laser makes roll spam or f-smash unviable.

Thanks for simplifying that for me.

 

[L!nk!n]

this would make sense if there was a way around broken c-stick spam but there just isn't, it is too broken and takes no skill at all.

Again, what you and Bones0 are saying is that basically you fail to counter c-stick spamming, then you loose to a non-technical noob who just started to play smash, then you tell him that 'you don't want to play against him anymore'. That's just sad, man. If he beats you, he should tell you what to do and not the other way around, claiming that you have tech skill.

What ryankam10, KirbyKaze and me are saying that there are plenty of options to beat these people. Unlike you stated. Let's just make a list of what a good player does:

- he spaces his attacks
- he techs or sweetspots recoveries
- he (power)shields lasers
- he has total control over what he is doing with his character
- he can use the advantages of his character
- therefore, he uses his brain

If your opponent can NOT do these things, you can win simply by exploiting the second and third point. That should be enough, considering the fourth point.

If you need more help:

- spam lasers. If you laser and then approach they don't have time for a smash's startup lag or they don't know what to do.
- JC grab rollers, or if you're quick enough, you can just smash someone who rolls behind you.
- Counter his noob c-sticking with pro c-sticking: SHFFL the **** out of them.

That's about all I can think of right now. Just think, if they beat you, no matter how they do it, you are simply not better then them... Or maybe Bones0 meant 'I want them to pick Fox or Falcon so I can combo them flashy with Falco. Instead they pick Dr. Mario and fsmash spam the **** out of me', whatever.

 

[ShineSpikeOverpowered]

Actually, its Marth fsmash and Falco fsmashe spammers that really tick me off. Mostly the marth fsmash spammers.

However, the next time I play against them, I'll try to think as I play (which I'm not accustomed to), use lasers much more, try the JC grabbing, running at them then shield and punish, and work on shine combos.

Also, is there a way to tell if i L cancled with falco?

 

[Teczer0]

If it was me, I would walk up to them.

Walk back.

Fsmash.

And repeat.... but all the others work well too I suppose.

 

[tarheeljks]

pretty sure jolteon is trolling you lol

 

[Jasou]

Actually, its Marth fsmash and Falco fsmashe spammers that really tick me off. Mostly the marth fsmash spammers.

However, the next time I play against them, I'll try to think as I play (which I'm not accustomed to), use lasers much more, try the JC grabbing, running at them then shield and punish, and work on shine combos.

Also, is there a way to tell if i L cancled with falco?

A great way to tell if your L canceling with fox or falco is by shining right after the aerial, but this doesn't mean after every aerial you should shine to test. This is just a good way to test your L canceling skills. It's also good to get used to shining after aerials because eventually you will be using it for combos.

Note: If you hit someone with your aerial you will need to be aware of the hitlag (hitstun) when you are L canceling.
Example: L canceling your aerials without hitting someone will have more close together button pressing.
L canceling your aerials while hitting someone will have a bit more delayed button mashing in order to perform the L cancel correctly.

 

[FoxLisk]

oh man this thread is so ******** that its now unclear how many people are trolling. can someone please close it.

 

[Bones0]

Again, what you and Bones0 are saying is that basically you fail to counter c-stick spamming, then you loose to a non-technical noob who just started to play smash, then you tell him that 'you don't want to play against him anymore'. That's just sad, man. If he beats you, he should tell you what to do and not the other way around, claiming that you have tech skill.

What ryankam10, KirbyKaze and me are saying that there are plenty of options to beat these people. Unlike you stated. Let's just make a list of what a good player does:

- he spaces his attacks
- he techs or sweetspots recoveries
- he (power)shields lasers
- he has total control over what he is doing with his character
- he can use the advantages of his character
- therefore, he uses his brain

If your opponent can NOT do these things, you can win simply by exploiting the second and third point. That should be enough, considering the fourth point.

If you need more help:

- spam lasers. If you laser and then approach they don't have time for a smash's startup lag or they don't know what to do.
- JC grab rollers, or if you're quick enough, you can just smash someone who rolls behind you.
- Counter his noob c-sticking with pro c-sticking: SHFFL the **** out of them.

That's about all I can think of right now. Just think, if they beat you, no matter how they do it, you are simply not better then them... Or maybe Bones0 meant 'I want them to pick Fox or Falcon so I can combo them flashy with Falco. Instead they pick Dr. Mario and fsmash spam the **** out of me', whatever.

I'm the best Falco main in my state. I think I would know if c-stick spamming could be stopped. Just watch THIS SET. I clearly just get destroyed the first stock by fsmashes, but he stopped spamming them so I ended up winning games 2 and 3.