Q&A Wario Q&A and Help Thread - What's Wario Land

[Direspect only!]

Probably the wrong place. But Im having a bit of a crisis. I've been playing wario for a while, and his kit is pretty solid. I tend to play him as a bait and punish get in get out and then seal the stock kind of character. Recently though. I played jiggly, and she seemed to do what he does better? Obviously you guys are wario mains so youre more than likely biased towards wario, but is there anything wario has over her? She has rest, we have waft, she has better aerial mobility, we have frame traps. It's pretty identical overall.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wario actually has answers to shields and doesn't lose significantly to rolls. He can also actually afford to trade and isn't bogged down by his weight.

Moreover, Wario's neutral is actually threatening if only because of Waft. You can just play the passive game against Jiggs and she can't do anything about it, but against Wario you're only giving him free waft charge. Waft is way more reliable than rest, which is a big double edged sword.

Simply put Jiggs is bad. Wario isn't.

 

[Dar4]

Probably the wrong place. But Im having a bit of a crisis. I've been playing wario for a while, and his kit is pretty solid. I tend to play him as a bait and punish get in get out and then seal the stock kind of character. Recently though. I played jiggly, and she seemed to do what he does better? Obviously you guys are wario mains so youre more than likely biased towards wario, but is there anything wario has over her? She has rest, we have waft, she has better aerial mobility, we have frame traps. It's pretty identical overall.

Na, it's actually the opposite. Jiggs is a worse version of Wario.

Waft is much better than rest. Last I heard, there are no guaranteed combo confirms into rest. The few setups for rest are very DI dependent. Waft you can combo into, it has multiple confirms that are guaranteed like Upair to waft and weak nair to waft. So basically waft is much easier to land.

Jiggs is much lighter than Wario, she dies way earlier.

Jigg's other specials are much worse than Wario's. Sing and rollout are almost useless. Pound is very meh. Wario has bite and bike which are both way better than any special Jiggs has in her moveset.

 

[Direspect only!]

Alright. Thanks a lot

 

[Deleted member]

Any tips for a Wario player who has trouble using the waft correctly? Every time I try to use it, it almost always whiffs. I think it's probably because I'm not setting it up well, and also because I'm not quite sure where its hitbox is.

 

[Dar4]

Any tips for a Wario player who has trouble using the waft correctly? Every time I try to use it, it almost always whiffs. I think it's probably because I'm not setting it up well, and also because I'm not quite sure where its hitbox is.

If you don't know them, you have to learn the confirms. Upair to waft, nair to waft especially. It takes tons of repetition to get them down. It did for me atleast. It took me several months of wiffing wafts before I could hit them consistently. Best tip I can give is go into practice mode against a lvl 9 CPU, set them to attack, and practice hitting waft setups over and over and over. Level 9 CPUs are pretty much frame perfect so if you mess up the guaranteed confirm you'll know it.

 

[moofpi]

https://youtu.be/y9O5AbeUazk?t=1m28s

Okay so in this 2015 highlight reel of Dutch smashers there's this Wario vs Link in GF. The Link throws a bomb at Wario while they're on the platform of Smashville near the blastzone and Wario eats it causing the "eating something that explodes" animation. The animation killed Link at 75%. I had NO idea that thing had a hitbox, let alone one with that much knockback.

So how does the bomb-eating hitbox even work? I know a bomb isn't that powerful, so does it amplify the knockback 1.5x like a reflector? Would this be a neat Wario strategy in doubles with/against the Links?

 

[CoveredNMoney]

What do you guys practice in training mode?

For me this is my regiment

-confirms into waft
-movement
-landing ff uair (cannot land this consistently for the life of me)
-tricks with the bike
-working on spacing

 

[Steeler]

https://youtu.be/y9O5AbeUazk?t=1m28s

Okay so in this 2015 highlight reel of Dutch smashers there's this Wario vs Link in GF. The Link throws a bomb at Wario while they're on the platform of Smashville near the blastzone and Wario eats it causing the "eating something that explodes" animation. The animation killed Link at 75%. I had NO idea that thing had a hitbox, let alone one with that much knockback.

So how does the bomb-eating hitbox even work? I know a bomb isn't that powerful, so does it amplify the knockback 1.5x like a reflector? Would this be a neat Wario strategy in doubles with/against the Links?

It's not dependent on the projectile or anything, it's just that it deals 15% and has decent knockback. It definitely won't kill near the middle of the stage for a while, but right next to the boundary it'll do enough.

 

[Dar4]

What do you guys practice in training mode?

For me this is my regiment

-confirms into waft
-movement
-landing ff uair (cannot land this consistently for the life of me)
-tricks with the bike
-working on spacing

The majority of my time is spent doing waft setups. Probably 80% or so. I practice most of what you listed as well as -

- Ledge trumps
- recovering from the depths...usually I set a level 9 CPU to a high percentage, throw them, and try to gimp them deep off stage and then return.
- FF dair gimps on various characters
- bike at ledge farts on recoveries
- reverse bite sometimes, but I've got it down at this point
- dtilt combos
- On spot dash attack
- raw wafts on recoveries...olimar/dunk hunt are good practice targets for this
- riding under the stage...just because
- bike ledge setups

That's all I can think of at the moment.

 

[Direspect only!]

So I've been using bike kind of randomly or when I don't feel like commuting to a dash attack to catch a roll. Bike seems like the safer option. How else should bike be used? I kind of just use it reactionary or to punish but never for any advanced stuff.

 

[Spinosaurus]

Bike is kind of an all purpose versatile move. Just don't use it all willy nilly especially in neutral, it's just asking to get punished. For advanced bike stuff, practice ledge crashing the bike so you can use it for ledgeguards. Check the Mad Scientist thread too.

 

[Dar4]

Ok Wario mains, a few questions

- What are the best ways to practice fast fall upair? This is one thing I've been trying to implement into my wario but I can't seem to get it down. Maybe it's just a thing where I need more practice but what I've mostly been doing is in my practice time alone going into training mode and just practicing landing it over and over against level 9s. Any better ideas? Also do most people use C stick for it? I've not been using C stick as I find it much harder to land followups afterwards...especially down B.

- Should we be using down throw instead of upthrow at all? I never use it, basically always just go for the upthrow unless I can kill or go for the edgeguard with bthrow/fthrow.

- What's your mentality when it comes to balancing fishing for waft and racking up damage? Specificially having opponents being in nair to waft kill percent (20-50)?. Do you stop racking up damage as to not knock them out of the nair to fart kill % or do you just keep racking up damage as normal? I feel like I've lost sets because I've fished for the nair or upair too much and stopped racking up damage. And vice versa...sometimes I feel like I lose games because I don't fish for it enough at those percents.

 

[Boost4u]

Ok Wario mains, a few questions

- What are the best ways to practice fast fall upair? This is one thing I've been trying to implement into my wario but I can't seem to get it down. Maybe it's just a thing where I need more practice but what I've mostly been doing is in my practice time alone going into training mode and just practicing landing it over and over against level 9s. Any better ideas? Also do most people use C stick for it? I've not been using C stick as I find it much harder to land followups afterwards...especially down B.

- Should we be using down throw instead of upthrow at all? I never use it, basically always just go for the upthrow unless I can kill or go for the edgeguard with bthrow/fthrow.

- What's your mentality when it comes to balancing fishing for waft and racking up damage? Specificially having opponents being in nair to waft kill percent (20-50)?. Do you stop racking up damage as to not knock them out of the nair to fart kill % or do you just keep racking up damage as normal? I feel like I've lost sets because I've fished for the nair or upair too much and stopped racking up damage. And vice versa...sometimes I feel like I lose games because I don't fish for it enough at those percents.

Here's what I think:

1st question: Sorry can't help you there cause I also have trouble landing those too. It's even worse for me since I'm using 3ds.

2nd question: Dthrow works very well on fast faller such as fox, or falcon because you can follow up with a bike. Couple that with a wheelie, and that is a free 26%. Much more than an uthrow. It catches techs in place / away. It also works on most of the cast but is DI dependant (even for the fast fallers). But if they DI towards you and don't airdodge, you can smack them with Bair. This has a huge percentage window to pull off. If they try to jump over you Uair does the trick. When none of these follow ups work for me, then I resort to uthrow.

3rd question: When I try Nair to waft setups I make sure that it's against a character that doesn't have an abusable anti air move (e.g. Mario upsmash). Thankfully, characters like these fall into the easy ledge bike waft kill setup. My mentality is to keep on dealing damage, because what I notice with my wario is that I can rack up damage pretty well, and often get the KO via ledge gaurd. Whiffing full wafts is bad, but if you are behind by like 90%, there is still time to fish for incomplete rage dairs to half waft, which is what I prefer over the nair setup.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I'm pretty sure that any character can jump after Wario D-Throw before hitting the ground via proper DI.

 

[Boost4u]

I'm pretty sure that any character can jump after Wario D-Throw before hitting the ground via proper DI.

Yeah. That's why I uthrow on opponents that know what's up :/. If they jump towards you a bair or Uair can still work.

 

[Dar4]

I'm pretty sure that any character can jump after Wario D-Throw before hitting the ground via proper DI.

That's what I thought as well, so I almost always opt for the up throw to get the positional advantage, and have a chance to land an aerial if I read an airdodge properly. Plus upthrow does 3% more damage than dthrow.

Reflex, one thing I noticed about your wario play is how on point you are at landing fast fall upairs...mind sharing how you got so good at it? What do you do to practice it? Anything specifically?

 

[Ridel]

I pretty proficient at FF u-air myself and the way I went about practicing was just going into training and learning the spacing with the large characters and working my way down to the smaller ones. After that I get myself a full to half charged Waft and start practicing that set-up on each weight class. Note that you don't have to learn every character, as some have very similar FF and weight properties.

From heavy weights I would recommend practicing on: Dedede, Bowser Jr, Ike, Wario, and Yoshi. Yoshi in particular is important since he has a 3 frame n-air that can snuff you if your timing or spacing is off.

From mediums I recommend Mario, Pit, ZSS, Shiek, Robin, Diddy, and Cloud.

Fast Fallers I recommend are Fox, MK, Greninja, and Falcon. These guys have odd percents to work off of despite them being light to heavy respectively.

And from feather/lightweights I recommend Mewtwo, Rosa, Jiggs, G&W, Olimar, Pikachu, and Villager. These ones are probably the most difficult to learn. The smaller ones are very hard to hit with FF u-air so I recommend tackling them first despite I myself starting with heavies, it will just make your life easier in the long run.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

I mean, there's no substitute for practice there. Getting used to different timings and situations with it, like doing it from the ledge, doing it and fastfalling, following up from N-Air2...

 

[Bryancg]

Hi guys! Chances are I'm going to play a Fox at a tournament today and I was just had a question about his uptilt. One time I was battling a fox and after I lost a stock he of course tried to do his uptilt-uptilit thing on me. He was around 50% and I had a fully charged Waft in me. Out of frustration I decided to use the waft as a shot in the dark. It worked and he hit my super armor so it KO'd him. I haven't been able to repeat this since. Does anyone know what you should do in a situation like this?

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Moves that combo into themselves usually have too little hitstun to do so at very low percents. Mario U-Tilt, Fox U-Tilt, Wario D-Tilt...

The simplest/safest response is to buffer a mid-air jump or shield (depending on whether or not the move leaves you in the air afterward). If the opponent is knowledgeable and not just spamming blindly, they won't do the move again if it won't combo, so you risk wasting a Waft if they shield or grab instead in that scenario.

 

[Bryancg]

Hmm, yeah I guess he just wasn't up tilting fast enough, or I was at a higher percent than I remember. Was just making sure there wasn't something else I was missing, thanks!

 

[Dar4]

I pretty proficient at FF u-air myself and the way I went about practicing was just going into training and learning the spacing with the large characters and working my way down to the smaller ones. After that I get myself a full to half charged Waft and start practicing that set-up on each weight class. Note that you don't have to learn every character, as some have very similar FF and weight properties.

From heavy weights I would recommend practicing on: Dedede, Bowser Jr, Ike, Wario, and Yoshi. Yoshi in particular is important since he has a 3 frame n-air that can snuff you if your timing or spacing is off.

From mediums I recommend Mario, Pit, ZSS, Shiek, Robin, Diddy, and Cloud.

Fast Fallers I recommend are Fox, MK, Greninja, and Falcon. These guys have odd percents to work off of despite them being light to heavy respectively.

And from feather/lightweights I recommend Mewtwo, Rosa, Jiggs, G&W, Olimar, Pikachu, and Villager. These ones are probably the most difficult to learn. The smaller ones are very hard to hit with FF u-air so I recommend tackling them first despite I myself starting with heavies, it will just make your life easier in the long run.

Did you turn the CPUs to attack to practice getting in, or did you just practice the spacing on each of their respective hurtboxes while turning them to stop? I'm also always doing fart or other aerial followups while practicing on different weight classes/fall speeds currently.

One thing I've noticed about myself is I'm good at landing FF upair in training mode, but I am having trouble actually translating that to a real match. It might be a mental thing where I don't keep the move in mind enough. Or it may be that I simply need more repetition.

I'm also thinking my hand position on the left stick might be an issue. FF upair is easy to land if you're only doing that, but actually performing the move in a match situation is totally different since your hand will have to perform the input while quickly coming off a different input...as opposed to being able to put all your thought and coordination into one move (hope that makes sense).

So yeah thanks for the suggestions everyone. Another other tips will be helpful. I feel like mastering this is a big key to taking my wario to the next level so I'm super determined to get it down.

 

[Ridel]

Did you turn the CPUs to attack to practice getting in, or did you just practice the spacing on each of their respective hurtboxes while turning them to stop? I'm also always doing fart or other aerial followups while practicing on different weight classes/fall speeds currently.

I actually got my brother to just spam L (or A in some cases) so that way I could get through each character a bit faster for spacing, also had him DI in different directions. To practice actual applications ,CPUs or friendlies are the best way to go. If you don't have a friend that is willing to help you in training mode I recomend just setting the CPU to stop for spacing and then turn them to attack for timing and such.

 

[Zionaze]

I've recently started riding the bike offstage at different speeds to kill opponents at early percents.
ex) Bike at the ledge but dont hold any directions and slowly falloff the ledge will make a giant hitbox that will true combo into fair/dair if it hits.

this really destroys characters that like to recover low like falcon, megaman, etc

 

[ZeGlasses!]

I've recently started riding the bike offstage at different speeds to kill opponents at early percents.
ex) Bike at the ledge but dont hold any directions and slowly falloff the ledge will make a giant hitbox that will true combo into fair/dair if it hits.

this really destroys characters that like to recover low like falcon, megaman, etc

Does that actually work? Might actually start using that if it's true.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Does that actually work? Might actually start using that if it's true.

It's pretty telegraphed, and the back portion of the Bike doesn't have a hitbox, so if they can go "under" the lip and snap to the ledge that way, they will avoid it. That said, it makes for a decent mix-up with run off ledge -> D-Air, as well as run off ledge -> Bike toward the ledge -> immediate jump off.

 

[Deleted member]

Do any of Wario throws have any real good followups out of them? All I can really do is down throw to dash attack and even then I know that's not a true combo and people can jump away after down throw is executed. I'm also having some issues linking stuff into Waft.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

No--That's one of his issues as a character in Smash 4. He has a solid KO throw, but all your really get from his throws outside of KO range is positioning.

 

[MegaBlaster1234]

Back throw is a good Luma killer, at least.

 

[Boost4u]

Once again, dthrow to bike or bair might work, but with proper DI they can jump out of it.
Easy setups for waft is leaving your bike on the ledge and fart on it while an opponent tries to recover, or incomplete dair to half waft (need 100% rage)

 

[Dar4]

No--That's one of his issues as a character in Smash 4. He has a solid KO throw, but all your really get from his throws outside of KO range is positioning.

Yeah, *sigh*.

But I understand that balancing waft is the reason why. If Wario could combo into waft from a grab that would be way OP.

Atleast he can has a great command grab to deal with shield, or he'd have major issues losing to shield.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Wario mains, I kind of feel like I'm asking the wrong question to the wrong people, but how do I deal with fighting this character? No matter which action I take against Wario, it seems to always be the wrong one. It feels like he has a consistent answer to any option and, to be honest, it makes me quite salty when playing against him. I main R.O.B. and I've heard lots of people call it close to even but slightly in R.O.B.'s favor, yet for me, the MU always seems to be 30:70 the other way around. I'm kinda decent with Mewtwo as well, but I can't imagine the MU would be good enough to make the counterpick worth it since I'm considerably better with R.O.B.
Of course, it's okay if you guys don't want to tell me any secrets. I've already accepted that I'm trash at this game and have largely given up trying to "git gud" anyhow. Also, sorry if this sounds like a salty post, I just got done going 1-7 against an FG Wario

 

[Spinosaurus]

Wario mains, I kind of feel like I'm asking the wrong question to the wrong people, but how do I deal with fighting this character? No matter which action I take against Wario, it seems to always be the wrong one. It feels like he has a consistent answer to any option and, to be honest, it makes me quite salty when playing against him. I main R.O.B. and I've heard lots of people call it close to even but slightly in R.O.B.'s favor, yet for me, the MU always seems to be 30:70 the other way around. I'm kinda decent with Mewtwo as well, but I can't imagine the MU would be good enough to make the counterpick worth it since I'm considerably better with R.O.B.
Of course, it's okay if you guys don't want to tell me any secrets. I've already accepted that I'm trash at this game and have largely given up trying to "git gud" anyhow. Also, sorry if this sounds like a salty post, I just got done going 1-7 against an FG Wario

Is there anything specific that you're struggling with? Giving a general answer is a bit difficult here.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Is there anything specific that you're struggling with? Giving a general answer is a bit difficult here.

Mostly his specials, save for Corkscrew since that isn't as fantastic as his other specials. If it isn't the Bike and Chomp I'm struggling with, it's his aerial kit. I die to his Bair way earlier than I should...

 

[Dar4]

So when should I be using and when are the best situations to use -

1) Ftilt's upward and downward facing versions?
2) Wario's crawl?

 

[WRECK-IT MUNDO]

So when should I be using and when are the best situations to use -

1) Ftilt's upward and downward facing versions?
2) Wario's crawl?

Use F-tilts upward if you think your opponent is going to jump on different situation or is trying to jump out of shield (for tall characters you can use upward f-tilts any time if you're sure it will hit.). Downward ftilts for edge guards like Captain Falcon is trying to recover with Side-B for a example.

Wario's crawl is the best thing! I use it everytime! /s

Nah I think it's only recommendable against characters who can shoot/throw projectiles a little bit higher than usual. (You can also crawl to troll tho.)

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Lost to a Falcon at my locals, and I'm feeling that I played the matchup wrong.

How should I be edgeguarding Falcon? I was getting snubbed by Up-B's grab box whenever I tried to intercept it.

 

[Andaya]

Lost to a Falcon at my locals, and I'm feeling that I played the matchup wrong.

How should I be edgeguarding Falcon? I was getting snubbed by Up-B's grab box whenever I tried to intercept it.

Dash attack at the ledge is probably the safest, especially with the trip hitbox. I think Dair from above will spike but I'm not too sure

 

[ZeGlasses!]

Thanks. So it's generally better to stay on stage unless I'm super sure I can land the hit?

Another matchup that's giving me trouble is Pac-Man. I have sooo much damn trouble killing him.