Wario+ Cha Cha Cha! (OP updated, expect more soon) *WIP*

[Revven]

Anything jab > X generally works unless they perfectly SDI it.

 

[SymphonicSage12]

Has anyone done frame data for Wario yet? Because I could do it if you guys were ok with it.

 

[kciD]

The bike goes through certain projectiles, and that's probably what I use it mostly for offensively. It goes through Zamus's stun laser, and makes for some free damage. I tend to try to keep it off stage, otherwise I'll accidently pick it up and get myself killed.

But that's because I'm not good at this game.

 

[RPGsFTW]

***EDIT***

Ignore this post.

 

[RPGsFTW]

http://www.youtube.com/user/ForTheFYeah#p/a/u/0/xLvm9tuf6i0

That video of me vs my friend's Rob that I really wanted to show everyone. Last two kill are the most important!

RPGsFTW (Wario) vs DaKirbinator (Rob)

More videos will be uploaded soon and then added as a link to my signature.

Tell me what you think.

 

[kciD]

Can't watch the vid at work, but I hope that you put up a good fight against a laser and top happy rob. That's what I have a lot of trouble with. I'll watch when I get home.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Can't watch the vid at work, but I hope that you put up a good fight against a laser and top happy rob. That's what I have a lot of trouble with. I'll watch when I get home.

Well, unfortunately, that might not be the case. My friend almost never picks Rob, he mains Kirby, and just happened to have picked Rob at the time when the good stuff happened.

He fights much better with his other characters, so if I ever get other vids of him uploaded, he most likely won't be Rob, lol.

 

[omegablackmage]

ha ha nice kill, what was that... down throw wheel, up air, jump to fart, down throw wheel, dair, upair? pretty silly stuff, seems the wheel has great combo potential.

 

[Foo_]

Anyone feel like critiquing a few vids?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hGMjaZhN3KM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEXGdi9L3A4&feature=channel
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZwRMQ5BkVQ&feature=channel

 

[The Cape]

Watched the first so far (more to come).

Very solid play (from someone with less than 10 posts? Thats IMPOSSIBLE).

Anyway:
In my personal opinion Ike does very well on Wario due to his range and meaty duration of moves (jabs, uair, nair, etc). So great job for the excellently timed dodges. You very rarely got hit for a bad dodge and that says great things for your use of the defensive system

I like your use of the U throw to get the opponent above you and try to force him to jump. That is a very bad situation for Ike and could be made a good deal worse if you can catch him in a juggle out of his jump. Use of aerials for pressuring and grab setups was good and you should definetly use more of it.

Things to improve that I saw so far. Overall, do not use DACUS U smash if you cannot do it consistantly (it got you punished hard a few times) and especially against a character like Ike where one mistake with Wario's long duration smashes can lead to an early death. Secondly, the recovery could use some work, dont be afraid to jump away from the stage or bike away to bait Ike off the stage and then beat him to the ledge. This can effectively reverse the situation and put Ike at the disadvantage (also who gets spiked? lol)

Overall from what I saw you seem to have a good staple on your character but a few minor things such as baiting of Ike's moves a bit more with more effective punishes and being smart about your recovery (since it is very versitile) can definetly help you improve.

Second match (and some more overalls)

Just curious why you are trying to zone Ike with aerials. I see it with fair and bair a few times and that is basically asking Ike to hit you with his huge sword. Since when you use a move you have to commit to it it can leave you wide open. Zoning Ike overall is a pretty bad idea.

DI overall is going to be something very useful to learn (not sure if B throw > dash attack is legit) and is something that will help you greatly.

Use of aerials overall gave me mixed feelings
Nair was used to pressure sheilds and lead into a grab, this is an excellent use. The initial hit can also be used effectively at the edge to end a combo and knock the opponent off the ledge.
Uair is best used "on the ground". It has 10 frames landing lag, which still gives an advantage on block and on hit. While doing it in the air forces you to end the move before you get down, this can leave you wide open. In a way the uair is the "shffl" aerial. With its great horizontal range and juggle power its probably his best aerial.
Same fair spacing (good for losing a toe). Fair hitting on the ground can lead to grab setups, but is best used as a "combo linker" move, basically allowing you to continue the combo after it starts. It is also fairly good at gimping off stage.

Wario's U tilt is very meaty and can beat out dodges. The strong hit can link to uairs and the weak hit can link to grabs. Very good move here.

Edgehogging or gimping Ike is your best bet. As Wario you will have a hard time beating out the upB once it is out. If Ike is working on a good sweetspot and you are still on the stage, it might be best just to let him recover and start from scratch.

Your biggest overall weaknesses in the matches that I could see is that you lacked the ability to effectively KO. Whether from gimping or straight up KOs or edgeguarding. The lack of being able to land the killing blow is what was hurting you the most. Try more throw mixups (B and F to get off the stage) and D to try and mess up a DI or catch a tech in a more useful area. That might help.

Overall it looks very solid to start. And I just have to say, way to never miss a fart. All the ones that I noticed hit and either did a good deal of damage or KOed. Good work

 

[Foo_]

Thanks man! I've actually had an account here since 05, but I didn't like my name and got a new account.

Thanks a lot for the help. Those DACUS mistakes were really sloppy on my part, I'll have to work on it a bit more before I try to use them so much.

Good tip on biking away to bait him out, I'll have to remember that. Any other matchups you think that might be good in?

As far as trying to zone him- definitely not trying that again with Ike. That comes from matchup inexperience I suppose, it's still a bad idea. Good tip.

I also noticed like you said that edgehogging tended to be my best bet on a gimp. That **** Aether is so hard to edgeguard!

Thanks for the compliments, too. I've been working on placing my farts lol. Hopefully I'll get some more vids sometime.

edit: regarding ike's bthrow -> dash attack, it's pretty much a guessing game as to which way he's going to throw you. Metroid's **** tricky, so I almost always get into it. Thanks though, I'll work on it. I have pretty good DI to live, but my combo DI could use some polish

 

[omegablackmage]

i enjoy playing wario so after watching your vids i'll throw up some suggestions as well:

match 1:

• at 0:10 you dair ike, most hits but then didn't chase. get used to seeing how he di's through your dair, and then depending on which side of you he's on will be the side he pops out to. This will certainly allow you to chase to a fair or even an up air to continue the combo.
• like the cape said, don't be afraid to do the up air right into the ground on his shield when sneaking around his aerial zoning. At worst things will be reset to neutral.
• after landing that first upsmash at around :20, you should go for the uptilt there. Reason being is that the upsmash isn't too hard to di out of (like he did) and you likely won't get the last hit in. If you start the upsmash when they are closer to the ground (like the first one) usually most of the hits will connect, and you will net a combo. So I would go for an upair or uptilt to up air there.
• ooof on that first recovery. fingers probably slipped. don't be so hasty, wario is plenty floaty enough/his recovery is good enough to the point where you don't need to rush at all. After being hit, float a bit closer from the blast zone, then bike.
• sweet combo/kill on the second ike stock. You chained the upairs together well, and you were making him feel very uncomfortable in his sheild with your nair (you use this well). Excellently placed brap, timing was clutch too (if you waited another 10 seconds or so it would have been a full brap, not as strong, but does more damage). I think good use of the strongest fart, (around 1:50 seconds charged) is clutch in wario play.
• certainly as cape mentioned about the bthrow to dash attack, you want to di these things straight up. In most cases when someone throws you, holding up is for the most part the safest option. Like you said its a mixup, but either fthrow or bthrow, holding up will help a lot.
• maybe cool it on the fsmash usage. it got you punished a few times.
• overall very good, be much more patient with recovering as the cape mentioned and you probably would have won that match.

match 2:

• right at 10 seconds i would say you got greedy with the second upair. In that case i would go for the longer lasting hitbox of the dair to continue the combo.
• much better di on the bthrow to dash attack here lol.
• when you jumped from the ledge and air dodged at around 1 minute mark, you committed way too much. You could see ike turn around expecting this. Great thing about wario is that you can change your gameplan mid run in most cases, so here i would have just landed closer to the ledge.
• ew bad di again on the bthrow dashattack combo at 2:20. also when recovering with wario in a situation like that, don't be afraid to air dodge through impending doom. He moves quick enough in the air to get him out of harms way.
• right at 2:42 i would def have naird from the ledge. For how fast the hitbox comes out, its much better to put him in a bad situation then the fair would have.
• i really liked your use of the dthrow here near the edge. I like using this mixup because people usually expect the upthrow and want to di into the stage. This sets up for fsmash, bair, ftilt, and whatnot. sweet.
• ew but then right after you just let him come back for free! when offstage v ike, don't ever get under him but keep yourself near the tip of his fair range. Poke with fairs yourself to pressure, but above all, don't do nothing! wario has enough ways to come back, so get agressive (just not under him lol)!
• although you used the fully charged fart well, try to look for ways to net kills with it earlier on. watch the timer and try to force situations to use it.

match 3:

• I wouldn't use the dtilt to poke, too much cooldown.
• you land two upairs and then see that you can't go for a third so you don't push it, which is good. However you def could have gotten almost a free bite, and heres why: most characters, specially ike, won't be forcing the offensive when escaping combos, they just want to gtfo. They will almost always air dodge, spotdodge, shield, and move as far away as they can to reset to neutral. With good initiative on this, a bite waiting for him on the ground would certainly work.
• at a bit after 1:50 you grab him with your back to the ledge, go for the dthrow!

good stuff overall, like cape said you seem to have a decent footing with wario.

good stuff:

you use the nair very well. Its great for cross ups, links to grabs, or as an overall pressuring move. i think i saw good uses from all three in your videos so keep it up.

combos. you have a pretty good start on where to combo etc. I think when you analyze your use of some moves in some situations (upsmash comes to mind, and double jab) you'll start to unleash beastly combos. Also, don't forget to toss braps in at the end of some combos, those are brutal.

certainly good excecution with the braps.

stuff to work on:

recovering. like i said before, give yourself time to think and don't be afraid to airdodge alot.

edgeguarding, you really needed to pressure ike offstage with fairs, etc. just be careful of getting under him. also edgehogging just before the sword goes up usually means he has to land on the stage, which will get you either a bair (on the other side of him) or an up air.

other comments:
he seemed to di the fthrows off the stage well. sometimes consider doing a grab release. when your opponent di's the fthrow well they find themselves above you offstage, and for ike this is very good for him because of that long lasting dair. i imagine every once in a while a grab release to an appropriately placed fair will certainly gimp ike.

 

[Foo_]

THANK YOU! Wow, that's a lot of stuff to chew over. It all looks valid and thought-out, thanks for putting so much time into this. I've got a bit of a way to go still, but thanks so much for giving me specifics to work on.

When I get some more vids I'll be sure to post them here.

 

[The Cape]

edit: regarding ike's bthrow -> dash attack, it's pretty much a guessing game as to which way he's going to throw you. Metroid's **** tricky, so I almost always get into it. Thanks though, I'll work on it. I have pretty good DI to live, but my combo DI could use some polish

Just wanted to make one final comment on this.

The way throws work for Ike (and a good deal of other characters) allows you to find a common DI that covers your butt on most of them.

Up and forward (the way Ike is facing) should beat out F throw, B throw, and D throw and isnt a bad DI for U throw. You can do that to cover your butt in most situations until you learn to read Ike's patterns for throwing you.

Just a thought.

 

[Plum]

I've been meaning to post this for a while but I've yet to do so...
Anywho it's sort of sad but I no longer play Wario. Once I picked up my vBrawl characters, DDD and G&W, I just stopped playing him.
Somebody should feel more than free to take up the Wario thread and keep it more active then I did. Either start a new thread or even save some clutter here and get Bionic to move a post to be the new OP or something... Wario deserves more than me; I already have a fatty of my own

 

[bleyva]

if ganon can have effects added to fair and bair, then i'd like to inquire about wario having the coin-stealing effect added to a portion of his moveset, notably uair and fsmash, maybe more

 

[highfive]

I have just seen the light of Brawl+ and it is good. I have just seen Wario in Brawl+ and he is good. I have converted to Wario as a Brawl+ main. Guide me. pl0x

 

[RPGsFTW]

I have just seen the light of Brawl+ and it is good. I have just seen Wario in Brawl+ and he is good. I have converted to Wario as a Brawl+ main. Guide me. pl0x

Be in the air as much as possible (common Wario knowledge). I think this is more serious than it sounds. Really, stay in the air with Wario's good air mobility.

My favorite way to kill: Up-Throw -> Jump -> Half Charge Fart. Not sure if it could be escaped, but it works for me very well unless the enemy's % was too high.

 

[Revven]

Uair and Dair are your best friends.

 

[highfive]

Be in the air as much as possible (common Wario knowledge). I think this is more serious than it sounds. Really, stay in the air with Wario's good air mobility.

My favorite way to kill: Up-Throw -> Jump -> Half Charge Fart. Not sure if it could be escaped, but it works for me very well unless the enemy's % was too high.

I have some general knowledge of Wario, all vBrawl stuff but thanks for the combo idea. I'm at a loss to be able to combo again.

Uair and Dair are your best friends.

Same here. Thanks for that. Falling Uair is my personal favorite to use.

 

[Veril]

the bite is still ridiculous, less range but it can string extremely well and combo sometimes.

He's still got the DAHCUS, which is a true combo now iirc.

 

[highfive]

Well, his hitbox size is sort of a turnoff but his mobility sure comes in handy.

 

[RPGsFTW]

Boost smash (Dacus) after bite at low %s has always worked for me well. And of course Uair near the ground.

Like you said, general vBrawl Wario tactics. However, I'm pretty sure that vBrawl Wario didn't Uthrow -> Jump -> Half-Charged Fart kill like this one does.

 

[omegablackmage]

I don't think upthrow fart combos on many characters, falling up air to fart is considerable amounts safer.

Also, fyi, for those who don't dtilt at the moment, you should try throwing it into your game... its good.

And, hakan looks awesome, can't wait to play him.

 

[highfive]

I don't think upthrow fart combos on many characters, falling up air to fart is considerable amounts safer.

Also, fyi, for those who don't dtilt at the moment, you should try throwing it into your game... its good.

And, hakan looks awesome, can't wait to play him.

I keep wanting to say Dtilt to short hopped Fair to Waft. Although it's not probably not right.

 

[omegablackmage]

I think it depends on the fall speed/weight class of the character your up against, i've gotten dtilt to upair to work on many people, haven't been balsy enough to try farts.

 

[highfive]

I guess so.

So far I've only gone against light and medium weights so I'm not really sure.

I also love the fact that you can main Wario, Wolf, and Ganon in Brawl+ and all of them are viable to win as long as you have the skill. I just hope that the day never comes where there is actually a legitimate Brawl+ tier list. That would just ruin everything.

 

[VietGeek]

there will always be tier list obv

it's just it needs to be done in a manner theory-based like traditional fighters than tournament representation-based, which accounts too much for irregularities by top players and just pure popularity instead of statistical advantages and disadvantages apparent in each character

basically we need a really long and big match-up chart obv

 

[highfive]

there will always be tier list obv

it's just it needs to be done in a manner theory-based like traditional fighters than tournament representation-based, which accounts too much for irregularities by top players and just pure popularity instead of statistical advantages and disadvantages apparent in each character

basically we need a really long and big match-up chart obv

Fancy words are fancy.

Oh well. There goes Brawl+'s purity.

 

[JCaesar]

Every fighting game in the history of video games, including the ones that haven't been made yet, have had and will have tier lists (whether the players make one or not, they still exist). I don't see why that's a big deal. The trick is to make the gap between top and bottom tier as small as possible.

 

[kr3wman]

Fancy words are fancy.

Oh well. There goes Brawl+'s purity.

stop living in a dream lulz.

 

[highfive]

Every fighting game in the history of video games, including the ones that haven't been made yet, have had and will have tier lists (whether the players make one or not, they still exist). I don't see why that's a big deal. The trick is to make the gap between top and bottom tier as small as possible.

: /

I hope everyone is in God Tier then.

stop living in a dream lulz.

>.>

<.<

*sigh*

Yeah. I guess there ain't no point in fighting it. Oh well.

Anyway, what is possibly Wario's worst match up so far?

 

[omegablackmage]

Hmm, probably jiggz, zelda, gw. Usually wario does poorly against characters who have encompassing lingering hitboxes that would make it difficult for wario to get around. Jiggz is mainly because she floats just as well as he does, cept with more range and she can edgeguard him.

honestly hard to tell at this point

 

[RPGsFTW]

^G&W is the only one out of those that I agree with. I don't worry about Jiggs or Zelda so much myself.

I do, however, hate fighting Falco and sometimes Ness. I kinda depends though. They aren't too hard, but I definitely find those two to be quite obnoxious sometimes.

Personally, I've always kinda thought that fast ground characters were kinda scary, but that can go for anyone slow in the air, which Wario isn't, haha.

 

[JCaesar]

I do, however, hate fighting Falco and sometimes Ness. I kinda depends though.

That has nothing to do with the best 2 players in your area maining those characters, right?

 

[RPGsFTW]

That has nothing to do with the best 2 players in your area maining those characters, right?

The Falco might be, shhh!

Ness is annoying for any character I play. My friend plays him all the time. My friend's Ganon makes me not wanna play Snake because he beats me so hard sometimes, but that's all. He isn't that great, just has very odd mindgames. His Ness doesn't even DJC. It's just the fair into fair into fair that annoys me. At least it isn't like 5.0 Ness.

It isn't too bad though, like I said, I get around it. But getting hit by one fair just makes me go, .

 

[CountKaiser]

What a coincidence, the Ness thread wanted to talk about the matchup between Wario and Ness.

RPGs, what are your thoughts on this matchup?

 

[PKNintendo]

I know the matchup.

My brother mains Wario and we played each loads of times.
For starters, this isn't vBrawl, and Wario doesn't have a guaranteed Fsmash on grab, ignoring that Wario still has the advantage albeit smaller than vBrawl.

Both characters have strong aerial games, (Wario being slightly better due to his amazing aerial momemtum) but Ness has Fair which beats out a lot of Wario's aerials. Despite this, Wario still can reliably build up damage on Ness and can KO in assorted amount of ways. (Half-waft, Fsmash etc)

Ness has slightly harder time KOing Wario due to his ridiculous weight (but it's still possible)

Both characters have poor ground games, but Ness makes up for it with his fantastic grab game. Wario does actually have more range than Ness though and his Fsmash is incredibly useful.

Average matchup of 55-45 for Wario.

PS: My brother laments the nerf of Wario's chomp to this day LOL.

(In vBrawl the matchup was universally known as a strong 6-4)

 

[CanadaKid91]

55-45 sounds about right.

I don't have much experience, but Ness vs. Wario seems to boil down to a zoning game. Ness has a slight edge in zoning with well spaced fairs but a good Wario can bait and get inside for some quick aerial combos.

Ness can also have difficulty damaging and killing Wario because of Wario's crazy air movement. When it comes to edgeguarding, I think Wario also has the advantage, but not by much.

Either 60-40 or 55-45 (for Wario) imo

 

[RPGsFTW]

Honestly, PKNintendo gave a **** good description. I couldn't say much besides that. I should just say that he took the words right out of my mouth, haha.