Walking and Sliding as an approach: Your Opinions?

[Magnumblade]

Many people say that Luigi's best approaches are his tornado and short-hopped aerials (dair>nair is a good example I think) and are fairly effective. However, this leaves Luigi with few options to approach if someone is able to counter these approaches as they are fairly linear. In my opinion, Luigi needs an approach that is more variable, or unpredictable.

From my experiences with Luigi (not much because I don't play outside of wifi alot) I think that walking could be a viable approach for Luigi. (not sure about this part) from walking, you can crawldash, sliding smash/jab/u-tilt (I haven't tried the other tilts) go into a dash, tornado, jump, hyphen-smash (From the dash), grab, and maybe other stuff. When letting go of the control stick while walking at full speed, Luigi slides a good distance, and if you use a c-stick+zbutton to do a charge smash immediately after the slide starts, Luigi can slide while charging his smash, which increases that smashes range, and can pivot those smashes to mix it up (discussed in an earlier thread, "Sliding F-Smash?")

Another thing that could be useful, at max speed while sliding, Luigi can do his first jab at it's maximum range, and slide into up-b range while the opponent is stunned from the attack (not sure whether or not it's blockable, but the range could screw opponents up.) Sliding jabs may still be useful not for just up-b'ing, but for jab mindgames and jab>etc. combo's.

So far in looking at the bad aspects of walking, it could be considered that walking is too slow for Luigi, or that walking requires too much time for Luigi to get to full walking speed for it to be effective.

I will still be looking into this and testing this as a possible approach. If anyone has an opinion, or statement or anything of the sorts (no flames please) then please tell me.

everyone join the "Bringing the Thunder" Tourney

 

[LuigiKing]

In my opinion you should almost always be walking with Luigi. After discovering how useful crawldashing really is, you just plain have more options walking over running. While walking your jab and Dsmash essentially get a decent range boost, you can crawldash back, and as always jump or even tornado out of it to move yourself around. Its just better than running.

 

[ALiAsVee]

ShieldBounce. Craqwalking.

^^^ These two alone boost Luigi's spacing game tremendously. I guess what LK said applies too.

More elaborate explanation sometime later. I find use in single foxtrots too, but use sparingly for effect. Moonwalking catches people sometimes as well. I don't feel up to par to explain since my game has been a little off lately.

Note: Because people love to name AT's thousands of different things, the "techniques" I mentioned may go by other names. I'll post a video sometime and clear up some of the names so we are all on the same page.

The unanimous decision; walking > running. You won't find many Luigis using his sliding factor on purpose and for effective however.

Too Sleepy to continue.

 

[hippiedude92]

(insert aerial) to airdodge buffered to Dsmash is his best ground approach EVER. I've played with so many mindgames to the fact I'm doing double aerials, to SHADs to SHaerials then buffering them catching everyone's g off guard. Also the fact dsmash comes out frame 5 <3.

I buffer from SHs to jabs as a approahc alot which lead to my sexy jab cancel mindgames <3. In a way you should be walking because you can do tilts off a walk very easily. I don't know how to crawldash but it seems very useful in way. Walking to SHs buffers are so fun and lead to sliding jabs as well. Though wlaking and sliding are combined together secks. I mean running and the other 2 have it's uses . Just use the right one for the right situation

 

[Bobbery]

Nicely put, LuigiKing. I noticed how much you were walking in your latest videos. I just started trying to walk a lot more and I've been finding that jabbing, jab canceling, and jab followups are becoming a lot more frequent in my game. Also DAC upsmash is getting more use, too. I still need to get crawl dashing down, but I'm workin on it.

 

[kirbywizard]

Nicely put, LuigiKing. I noticed how much you were walking in your latest videos. I just started trying to walk a lot more and I've been finding that jabbing, jab canceling, and jab followups are becoming a lot more frequent in my game. Also DAC upsmash is getting more use, too. I still need to get crawl dashing down, but I'm workin on it.

after reading this thread I've been walking alot more, it works wonder people. But to bad I cant get crawl dash down D:

 

[hippiedude92]

lol vist changed luigis metagame with crawldashing good ****

 

[PolMex23]

Walking along with powershielding = best Luiigi approach

 

[Magus420]

Against characters with good range I often walk/dash in then tap block (you shield for a minimum of 7 frames as it gets put up when you tap it) at the edge of their range and drop it right into a jab (7 to drop shield then jab hits on 2). If they attack at full range you generally powershield it (3 frame window) and get a free jab combo, and if you block later when you're a little closer you can still sometimes catch them with the jab anyway depending on how strong the pushback is (your momentum forward from the walk/run is combined with the pushback).

If they block, the jab is essentially safe after reaction and you can d-smash them away if they continue to block or hit them if they try to do something after seeing the jab, jab cancel into another jab, or whatever. If they dodged you're generally safe as well unless they started it early which you can sometimes see before you go ahead with the jab after shield anyway.

Throw in some walk->jabbing, walk->crawldashing back, walk/run->dodging, walk/run->grabbing, walk/run->down-Bing, walk/run->aerial, etc, and you have a really good mix up.


Also, you get up to speed much sooner if you turned around into the walk since he starts off with a big step in that direction when you do a turn.

 

[Eten]

momentum you have from the air transfers to walking speed when you land, if you have trouble finding time to go into full speed walk. IE. Shorthop aerial or double aerial and hold over while you land.

 

[Bobbery]

Hey, how long have you guys been walking with Luigi? This seems to be a niche for him. Maybe this'll bring Luigi out of his slump :o

 

[Atash]

ShieldBounce. Craqwalking.

^^^ These two alone boost Luigi's spacing game tremendously. I guess what LK said applies too.

I was under the impression that LK's say-so implicitly applies to everything Luigi...? :-D

J/k.

Or not.

I've dug myself into a hole with this one...

Also, you get up to speed much sooner if you turned around into the walk since he starts off with a big step in that direction when you do a turn.

momentum you have from the air transfers to walking speed when you land, if you have trouble finding time to go into full speed walk. IE. Shorthop aerial or double aerial and hold over while you land.

Craqwalking, if I'm not mistaken, covers what Magus and partially what Eten said. The act of turning around giving a momentum boost is, I believe, the whole point of the Craqwalk (correct me if I'm wrong, but the Craqwalk is essentially pivot walking, jah?).

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
For those who have trouble pivot walking (like me) either due to lack of dexterity (me) or finger speed (me again):
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In case you guys didn't catch the thread that covered how to perform the pivot walk without too much finger stress (as in, pivoting over and over again and thus increasing walkspeed almost to dash speeds) is (with C-stick set to smash):

Press your attack button and hold it down, start walking in a direction (let's say right), and steadily tap the C-stick to the upper corner opposite the direction your walking (upper left; by the way, tapping it too far to the side results in an F-smash in the opposite direction your walking, too far upwards a U-smash [uh-duh, right?]). Continue holding the walk direction. Voila - pivot walking!

By the way, the above was written from memory, and I haven't pivot walked in a while... Mostly because I've never been able to actually put it to good use in a Brawl fight... But that's just me.
​

@ Magus420's strategy (because if I quote it, the quote is just too freaking huge)
It sounds like a statistically favorable approach... I really should try that. I'd probably just run in most of the time, though - there's greater momentum involved, furthering the chances of a successful jab (that is, until it gets predictable - but your suggestions out of walking can confuse the bajeezus out of opponents if you mix them up a lot, jah?).

Hey, how long have you guys been walking with Luigi? This seems to be a niche for him. Maybe this'll bring Luigi out of his slump :o

Although it isn't a 'niche' per se (I know plenty of other characters that gain a distinct advantage when walking), this is definitely a useful way to approach - simple, but clearly of positive effect.

Just my... ((*counts*)) four cents. :-D

 

[Bobbery]

Yeah, I didn't mean to use the word niche in that sense, but you know what I mean. BTW who are the other characters who benefit from walking?

 

[hippiedude92]

i've been walking FOREVER with luigi. Without walking, how can I follow their DI, and bait a airdodge and punish them? I can't imagine any luig w/o walking IMO lol.

vids of craqwalking or didn't happen :]

 

[LuigiKing]

Whats funny is I've known about crawldashing since August. I discussed it with Vista at the Penny Arcade Expo in Seattle. But Vist (Vist and Vista are not the same person) was the one who showed us all it mattered. Lol Maybe there are still more things out there to help Luigi's metagame out, who knows :O

 

[PoisonMist]

Walking imo is easier to mindgame your opponent because of how many things you can do out of it and
with CrawlDashing now Luigi is moving up in them tiers!

 

[kigbariom]

So if they were to make a new tier list Luigi would be up or down or same? Hard question

 

[Magnumblade]

Seems like LuigiKing, Hippiedude, Vist, and others beat me to the draw.

I just thought it would allow more variety in approaches, thus allowing for more mindgames, as well as being funny.

*Luigi is gleefully jogging/walking to opponent*
opponent lol epic fail *prepares smash*
*Luigi crawldashes backwards then either hyphen smashes or does a sliding angled f-smash and pwns opponent while opponent misses the smash*
oppenent: lolwut?

 

[hippiedude92]

crawldashing isn't enough to make him move up the tiers. though it does give him a slightly different meta-game ish since i've been seeing many people doing it now (i.e Zhao, Lk, chic etc) it does give him a different approach tactics and what you can do from it.

 

[Atash]

Seems like LuigiKing, Hippiedude, Vist, and others beat me to the draw.

I just thought it would allow more variety in approaches, thus allowing for more mindgames, as well as being funny.

*Luigi is gleefully jogging/walking to opponent*
opponent lol epic fail *prepares smash*
*Luigi crawldashes backwards then either hyphen smashes or does a sliding angled f-smash and pwns opponent while opponent misses the smash*
oppenent: lolwut?

Okay - forgive my asking, but, how does one accomplish a sliding F-smash? Is this just a momentum thing where you run, tap shield, and F-smash or have I been missing out on some incredibly useful technique...?

 

[PoisonMist]

Walk --> C-Stick in the direction your facing --> hold Z .
You should be sliding while charging a Fsmash

correct if wrong

 

[Magnumblade]

Walk --> C-Stick in the direction your facing --> hold Z .
You should be sliding while charging a Fsmash

correct if wrong

this.

the faster you are walking, the farther you will slide. physics

also, as long as the c-stick + z-button is used, reverse sliding might be possible (maybe useful for the u and d-smash, since d-smash on the 2nd hit seems to be better at killing, maybe its just the more vertical trajectory) which could let you use the f-smash as a possible defense tactic.

but i can't experiment on the use of it very well because as i have said before i dont play with anybody but the cpu much, so i havent really been able to test them out myself (wifi doesnt count imo, you lose some precision from lag)

 

[kigbariom]

I'm pretty sure Luigi defies actual physics on every attack, so....

Wait, is any form of reverse sliding possible for any move? That would be crazy.

 

[hippiedude92]

Okay - forgive my asking, but, how does one accomplish a sliding F-smash? Is this just a momentum thing where you run, tap shield, and F-smash or have I been missing out on some incredibly useful technique...?

The sliding fsmash is awesome. The sliding pivot charging fsmash (precise accuracy/timing abit tho) is even better. I'm pretty sure i was said to snake's boards that luigi has one of the best (IMO) at resetting the situation to a air game in his favor espically those who suck like snake. Pivot grabs/sliding pivot fsmashs are perfect for those anti-landing moves, whose love to airdodge snake mainly.

hope this kknowledge expanded yours. i have yet to master it but i do know it has helped me a few.

 

[kigbariom]

Its hard to master this because spamming it doesn't work like spamming Snake's sliding u-smash.
You can't use it too much, which makes it harder to get used to. I'm starting to get in the habit of quickly popping it in when the enemy is about 2 character lengths away.