Villager Moveset and Analysis Thread (:

[Indigo Jeans]

Hello everyone. I can confirm that DAir spikes. The spike hitbox is at the leaves, where Villager holds the turnips. The OP should be updated appropriately.

 

[TM_icecream]

That was already confirmed, just hasn't been updated
@ kackamee update thread pls
Also if you want to add more percent info of any kind I did a deal of testing here

From my own tests in the demo:
All moves were done on lvl 1 Mario, trying to keep loves fresh by dying.
Usmash is hard to track, but the total is accurate.
Villager move set:
Jab 1: 3%
Jab 2: 3%
Ftilt: 9%
Dtilt strong hit: 13%
Dtilt weak hit: 8%
Utilt 1: 6%
Utilt 2: 5%
Fsmash: 15%
Fsmash full charge: 21%
Dsmash 1: 7%
Dsmash 1 full charge: 9%
Dsmash 2: 7%
Dsmash 2 full charge: 9%
Usmash 1: 3%
Usmash 2: 1%
Usmash 3: 1%
Usmash 4: 1%
Usmash 5: 1%
Usmash 6: 4%
Total usmash: 11%
Usmash 1 full charge: 5%
Usmash 2 full charge: 2%
Usmash 3 full charge: 2%
Usmash 4 full charge: 2%
Usmash 5 full charge: 2%
Usmash 6 full charge: 6%
Total usmash full charge: 16%(the sand bag is lying about something here)
Dash attack: 10%
Dash attack(pot projectile): 6%
Side B nude: 7%
Side B nude no fire: 5%
Side B nude explosion hit: 12%
Side B ridden: 17%
Side B ridden no fire: 12%
Down b, axe: 14%
Down b, tree: 25%
Down B, tree weak hit: 15%
Log throw: 3%
Log shot(timber flying out of the free when chopped down): 8%
Pummel: 3%
Bthrow: 11%
Fthrow: 9%
Uthrow: 10%
Dthrow: 4%
Dair 3 turnips: 13%
Dair 2 turnips: 10%
Dair 1 turnip: 8%
Fair strong hit: 7%
Fair medium hit: 4%
Fair weak hit: 3%
Bair strong hit: 9%
bair medium hit: 5%
Bair weak hit: 3%
Uair 3 turnips: 13%
Uair 3 turnips weak hit: 6%
Uair 2 turnips: 10%
Uair 2 turnips weak hit: 5%
Uair 1 turnip: 8%
Uair 1 turnip weak hit: 4%
Nair strong hit: 9%
Nair weak hit: 5%
Get Up attack ledge under 100%: 7%

Mario's fireball does 4% normally
9% out of villagers pocket
This is over double the damage of the original move

 

[Dr. Dim]

I found out that if you manage to throw your opponent at the full grown timber it does something around 6% dmg if I saw it correctly.

It's also kinda fun to build the timber somewhere near the edge while the opponent is trying to recover :D

 

[kackamee]

Hello everyone. I can confirm that DAir spikes. The spike hitbox is at the leaves, where Villager holds the turnips. The OP should be updated appropriately.

Is this confirmed for all number of turnips or just 3?

Also, I'm working on updating the OP now (: Sorry for the delay.

That was already confirmed, just hasn't been updated
@ kackamee update thread pls
Also if you want to add more percent info of any kind I did a deal of testing here

Wow, thanks for all that man. Great help (:

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Is this confirmed for all number of turnips or just 3?

Also, I'm working on updating the OP now (: Sorry for the delay.



Wow, thanks for all that man. Great help (:

Heheh no worries. You're doing a great favour by compiling all this info here. Anyway I'll try and find that out because that's a good question.

Also I think its of interest to note that you can pull off two NAirs in a single SH. You can also input an UAir after the NAir, but so far it seems that only the SFX and the VFX appear, but not the hitbox. You can pull off a DAir after the NAir, but it seems to be the same case. It seems you can't pull off BAirs and FAirs at all.

It seems you can't pull off double SHFAirs or BAirs. The same situation as above seems to happen when trying to UAir or DAir after a SHBAir, but if you do a NAir, the hitbox does indeed come out.

You can't seem to be able to do any other aerials after a SHFAir.

You can cancel a turnaround skid (I forgot what they're called, ha ha) into FTilts, FSmashes, USmashes, and grabs. I can't seem to be able to do turnaround UTilts, DSmashes, DTilts, or jabs.

This will all be infinitely easier to test once the full game rolls around with practice mode.

 

[kackamee]

Updated OP (: Thanks everyone. Please take a look and lemme know if I should add anything. Villager looks really solid as a character and I'm excited to play him.

Oh, I'll add a section for his custom moves if anyone knows what they are/what they do?

 

[Player-1]

I don't own a Japanese 3DS so I don't have the game, but I played it at a friend's house all weekend. Most of it was with Diddy but right now I want to comain Diddy and Villager together, I just figured since I have a limited time with the full roster until release and will be getting the demo to play until the full release in the US I'd play mostly Diddy, but from what I did play of Villager I think his ledge game is pretty strong despite the ledge nerf overall. He can ledge drop, and jump up to throw a side-b and fall back on the edge and if the opponent is close to the edge whether he shields it or gets hit by it Villager can keep jumping up to do one when it explodes so it can be pretty rapid fire if they're close to the edge. You can also drop back and jump up with a fair to cover you while you try to get to the stage and both seemed to work pretty well. I definitely plan to lab it up more when I get the demo friday.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I don't own a Japanese 3DS so I don't have the game, but I played it at a friend's house all weekend. Most of it was with Diddy but right now I want to comain Diddy and Villager together, I just figured since I have a limited time with the full roster until release and will be getting the demo to play until the full release in the US I'd play mostly Diddy, but from what I did play of Villager I think his ledge game is pretty strong despite the ledge nerf overall. He can ledge drop, and jump up to throw a side-b and fall back on the edge and if the opponent is close to the edge whether he shields it or gets hit by it Villager can keep jumping up to do one when it explodes so it can be pretty rapid fire if they're close to the edge. You can also drop back and jump up with a fair to cover you while you try to get to the stage and both seemed to work pretty well. I definitely plan to lab it up more when I get the demo friday.

The ledge nerf is real, way less invincibility frames, though it might be for the best. Like you said Villager has strong ledge game. I hadn't thought of using SideB to pressure a ledgeguarder, it definitely sounds like a viable strategy. I've also found that dropping then doing rising UAirs and NAirs is really effective for getting breathing space, especially with NAir since the beginning of its hitbox(es?) have solid knockback. Dropping and walljumping a BAir is also pretty great, since it seems to finish sooner than FAir and it has better knockback/damage. There's also the bonus of faking out people who will try to either spotdodge or grab you OoS, since it takes maybe 10-20 frames longer.

 

[whoknowswhat]

Also I think its of interest to note that you can pull off two NAirs in a single SH.

Are you sure about this? Unless you're grouping this with the Uair and Dair thing you talked about, I don't think it's true. I got no hitbox when testing it.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Are you sure about this? Unless you're grouping this with the Uair and Dair thing you talked about, I don't think it's true. I got no hitbox when testing it.

Yes, I'm positive. You have to execute the NAir as you're rising. I normally use the top button (I don't remember if its X or Y) to SH then slide my thumb to A to do the rising NAir, then press A again about halfway or 3/4s of the way down. The Villager begins spinning but hits the ground about an eighth of the way through the rotation (they should land on their bottom). I know the hit box comes out because I've strung an approaching SHNAir into the second NAir, and have gotten the enemy with the second NAir when the first one missed.

 

[Player-1]

So something I think might become a future tactic in edge guarding people is predicting when they'll grab the edge when they're recovering, then you drop down and trump them when they grab the edge, then try to punish them when they go into their trumped animation (they flay backwards a bit). I was doing it with Diddy with decent success, I was trying to bair them out of it, but my bair didn't have enough range and I started to just have to cover their recovery options with other stuff depending on the character. However, Villager might be able to get a bair out of this if someone wants to test this, possibly, but I highly doubt it, even riding your lloyd rocket into them, if it's not guaranteed then you'd run the risk of SDing so it probably wouldn't be too useful unless it's guaranteed lol. If someone could test this for me, that'd be great.

 

[TM_icecream]

^ I agree, this is the future. I saw it a couple of times on TLoc's stream this weekend

http://www.zeldainformer.com/news/villager-can-pocket-links-final-smash#.VBaGBxZ43iM

Also I want to point out that when the tree, or the bowling ball, are pocketed, and thrown into another villagers pocket, and thrown back into your pocket, they are strong enough to garuntee kill OHKO legit at 0%.

 

[Burnsy]

Also I want to point out that when the tree, or the bowling ball, are pocketed, and thrown into another villagers pocket, and thrown back into your pocket, they are strong enough to garuntee kill OHKO legit at 0%.

That's amazing lmao. I got the demo today and I've been having so much fun with this character. Way more combo potential than I was expecting.

 

[Player-1]

I know that if Villager pockets Diddy's banana he can't pull out another, I don't suppose the same can be said for Robin's tomes/sword can it?

 

[a Link to the Forums]

Thought you guys would like this. ZeRo gave his impressions on Villager.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I know that if Villager pockets Diddy's banana he can't pull out another, I don't suppose the same can be said for Robin's tomes/sword can it?

Yo so can Diddy only have one banana on the field at a time now? Anyway the fact that Villager can shut down such a vital point of a characters playstyle is amazing. Earlier I was wondering if a similar situation would happen if you Pocketed ROB's gyro, so going by what you said that seems to be the case. I wonder if that "item limit" can be abused with other stuff like Link and Samus's Bombs?

It also begs the question though, as to why the same thing doesn't happen with Pocketing another Villager's Lloid. They're still able to pull out another, even though normally each Villager can only have one out at a time. It might only apply to bananas (the devs might've tried to nerf the item). Do you think you could test this by playing a Diddy double and having each player try and pull out a banana?

 

[Player-1]

Yo so can Diddy only have one banana on the field at a time now? Anyway the fact that Villager can shut down such a vital point of a characters playstyle is amazing. Earlier I was wondering if a similar situation would happen if you Pocketed ROB's gyro, so going by what you said that seems to be the case. I wonder if that "item limit" can be abused with other stuff like Link and Samus's Bombs?

It also begs the question though, as to why the same thing doesn't happen with Pocketing another Villager's Lloid. They're still able to pull out another, even though normally each Villager can only have one out at a time. It might only apply to bananas (the devs might've tried to nerf the item). Do you think you could test this by playing a Diddy double and having each player try and pull out a banana?

Well I also main Diddy and from what I've heard when I've asked other people is that's the case. Diddy can indeed only have 1 banana. Lloid rocket might be different in the way it works such that it's once it falls out of his control he can pull another, not only have 1 on the same side of the stage so if say falco reflected it back at him then maybe he can pull another once it is reflected, that's just a theory though. I can't test it because I don't have access to a Japanese 3DS until Wednesday I'll be able to play a bit again.

 

[!BSP]

Was it ever confirmed whether or not Villager can pocket PK Flash?

 

[Indigo Jeans]

Well I also main Diddy and from what I've heard when I've asked other people is that's the case. Diddy can indeed only have 1 banana. Lloid rocket might be different in the way it works such that it's once it falls out of his control he can pull another, not only have 1 on the same side of the stage so if say falco reflected it back at him then maybe he can pull another once it is reflected, that's just a theory though. I can't test it because I don't have access to a Japanese 3DS until Wednesday I'll be able to play a bit again.

Oh no, I meant, can there be only one banana TOTAL on the field. Not per Diddy. So if one Diddy already has a banana out, then will any others be unable to spawn their own? I'm asking because you said that if Villager pockets one of Diddy's bananas, he can't pull out another. Anyway, yep, a Villager can only have one Lloid Rocket of their own out at a time. So even if you aren't riding the Lloid, you can't pull out another one till it explodes. But if another Villager pockets your Lloid, then releases it, you can still pull out another one yourself, because it doesn't "belong" to you. I'm assuming that that's how the rockets function even when reflected by characters like Fox and Falco.

Was it ever confirmed whether or not Villager can pocket PK Flash?

I'm fairly certain it can be pocketed, since energy-based projectiles like Thunder, Mega Man's FSmash, and the blasts from Super Scopes and Laser Guns can also be pocketed. Though I don't have the means to test PK Flash at the moment, so maybe Player-1 can do us that favour when he has the chance?

Edit: Also, I'm beginning to think that only the 3-turnip DAir spikes. I'm nearly certain I spaced a DAir right now correctly for the spike (at the leaves/hands), but only two turnips were generated, and instead of being spiked the opponent just got knocked away vertically and rising. More conclusive testing needs to be done though.

 

[Burnsy]

I've also never been able to do a turnip spike without there being 3 turnips. The spacing for the sweetspot doesn't really seem too precise. I really like the lingering hitbox of dair for combo setups.

 

[Player-1]

Oh no, I meant, can there be only one banana TOTAL on the field. Not per Diddy. So if one Diddy already has a banana out, then will any others be unable to spawn their own? I'm asking because you said that if Villager pockets one of Diddy's bananas, he can't pull out another. Anyway, yep, a Villager can only have one Lloid Rocket of their own out at a time. So even if you aren't riding the Lloid, you can't pull out another one till it explodes. But if another Villager pockets your Lloid, then releases it, you can still pull out another one yourself, because it doesn't "belong" to you. I'm assuming that that's how the rockets function even when reflected by characters like Fox and Falco.

I assume not, in Brawl it wasn't like there would only be 2 bananas out on the field even if there was 2+ diddy's. Each diddy could pull out 2 bananas regardless of who it belonged to.

I'm fairly certain it can be pocketed, since energy-based projectiles like Thunder, Mega Man's FSmash, and the blasts from Super Scopes and Laser Guns can also be pocketed. Though I don't have the means to test PK Flash at the moment, so maybe Player-1 can do us that favour when he has the chance?

Edit: Also, I'm beginning to think that only the 3-turnip DAir spikes. I'm nearly certain I spaced a DAir right now correctly for the spike (at the leaves/hands), but only two turnips were generated, and instead of being spiked the opponent just got knocked away vertically and rising. More conclusive testing needs to be done though.

I'm the one that originally asked if PK flash could be pocketed because I couldn't pocket the explosion of PK flash when it came out and I was wondering if the PK flash charge could be pocketed.

 

[Noss92]

Question about Turnips (up aerial - down aerial), sometimes he took out 3, sometimes 2... is randomly or there is a "pattern"?

 

[Soshii]

Question about Turnips (up aerial - down aerial), sometimes he took out 3, sometimes 2... is randomly or there is a "pattern"?

Random.

 

[Noss92]

Random.

Sakurai PLS XD

 

[Indigo Jeans]

I assume not, in Brawl it wasn't like there would only be 2 bananas out on the field even if there was 2+ diddy's. Each diddy could pull out 2 bananas regardless of who it belonged to.


I'm the one that originally asked if PK flash could be pocketed because I couldn't pocket the explosion of PK flash when it came out and I was wondering if the PK flash charge could be pocketed.

I see. So I wonder why Diddy couldn't spawn another banana when Villager pocketed his. Then again it might just be a character specific limit. Yeah, I overthought it actually. Typing this now I realise that it was probably because in this game they lowered the amount of bananas a Diddy can have down from 2 to 1, but each Diddy can still have their own bananas? So like since that specific Diddy had their banana pocketed, they can't pull out another one, but other Diddys can still spawn their own if they haven't?

Regarding PK Flash, it seems weird tht you weren't able to Pocket the explosion, since like Game & Watch can Bucket it. Maybe the timing is different? Also, I have a feeling that charge won't be pocketable, since so far Villager can't Pocket other charging things that can be pocketed when shot (Super Scope, Mega Man's FSmash). Though you never know, PK Flash might be a different case.

 

[Knife Myths]

PK Flash is different from those examples because it actually leaves Ness and is controllable before it's released and gains a hitbox.

Although, someone said somewhere that he can't pocket Din's Fire at all, is that true?

 

[Soshii]

Quick question, is there still move decay in Smash 4?

 

[Knife Myths]

Yes. I don't know if anyone has started documenting it or anything but it's mentioned in a loading screen tip.

 

[Indigo Jeans]

PK Flash is different from those examples because it actually leaves Ness and is controllable before it's released and has a hurtbox.

Although, someone said somewhere that he can't pocket Din's Fire at all, is that true?

Huh, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe dirigible projectiles can't be pocketed? That would explain why It seems that PK Flash can't be pocketed and neither can Din's Fire. Does anybody know if PK Thunder can be pocketed?

Though I don't think that having a hurtbox determines whether or not a projectile can be pocketed. Items with hurtboxes like crates and the like can be pocketed, and so can Link's bombs.

 

[kackamee]

Pocket is such a great move, geez. And Rocket is such a great zoning tool. Villager really has some amazing utility and I can't wait to use him.

 

[Knife Myths]

Huh, I hadn't thought of that. Maybe dirigible projectiles can't be pocketed? That would explain why It seems that PK Flash can't be pocketed and neither can Din's Fire. Does anybody know if PK Thunder can be pocketed?

Though I don't think that having a hurtbox determines whether or not a projectile can be pocketed. Items with hurtboxes like crates and the like can be pocketed, and so can Link's bombs.

I used the wrong term, sorry. I meant that PK Flash has no hitbox at all until Ness stops charging it. Enemies can pass through it freely. (Unless this was changed in Smash 4?) PK Thunder has a hitbox from the moment it leaves Ness, so it can probably be pocketed, but it'd be interesting to see which direction it goes when it's released.

 

[Player-1]

I was watching a stream of sheik vs villager and it didn't seem like needles could be pocketed.

 

[Overswarm]

Did some basic Villager dair/uair testing.

100 dairs, 100 u-airs, all done in sandbag mode.

VILLAGER Dair Uair
AVG 2.04 2.13
1s 30 28
2s 36 31
3s 34 41
Standard Deviation 0.803025 0.82456


Since it's a count of 1s, 2s, and 3s out of a hundred the amount shown is the rough % chance you'll get that thing. This isn't conclusive until we even more tests, but it's looking to me that it's basically a 33% chance to get a 1, 2, or 3 turnips. Meaning random.

 

[Slushi Simcabi]

Did you just set item frequency to none? Or did you actually turn food and tomatoes off?

I can confirm it appears even with items off, just got a pear on Battlefield FD on the demo.

 

[Overswarm]

I can confirm it appears even with items off, just got a pear on Battlefield FD on the demo.

I have also had this occur.

 

[SuperNintendoKid]

i dont even http://a.pomf.se/aqroep.webm HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE...maybe he is a killer....

 

[Soshii]

i dont even http://a.pomf.se/aqroep.webm HOW IS THAT POSSIBLE...maybe he is a killer....

It's been mentioned several times that the invincibility frames from pocketing was what caused Link's Final Smash to fail.

 

[gbaespada]

When the demo comes out this Friday we should be able to test out more theories. By the waw we should start hunting down his custom moves just a thought I had in mind.

 

[Knife Myths]

I was watching a stream of sheik vs villager and it didn't seem like needles could be pocketed.

If I had to guess, he can pocket one but then gets hit by the rest. Someone mentioned that he only pockets one drop from FLUDD too.

When the demo comes out this Friday we should be able to test out more theories. By the waw we should start hunting down his custom moves just a thought I had in mind.

I have the demo (and I'm sure other people frequenting this thread do too, or even have the full game) so if you have any specific questions feel free to ask now.

 

[gbaespada]

If I had to guess, he can pocket one but then gets hit by the rest. Someone mentioned that he only pockets one drop from FLUDD too.


I have the demo (and I'm sure other people frequenting this thread do too, or even have the full game) so if you have any specific questions feel free to ask now.

Kinda late right now can we try a different day? I have a few questions about combos and techniques.