Villager Moveset and Analysis Thread (:

Hong

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#41
First question:
I assume a banana peel in Villager's pocket would not impede Diddy's total banana peel allocation. Similarly, after Villager pockets a Pikmin, you can pluck out another. I still think it gives Villager an edge in both match-ups. Versus Diddy, the temporary invincibility of Pocket will make it easier for him to neutralize banana peels, and he can have up to two active. If he is holding one that Diddy created and has one in his pocket, he still has more resources available compared to Diddy for that moment. As for Olimar, I don't think pocket will be a huge impact in that MU, so much as Lloid Rocket and Timber.


For your second question, I posted some ideas in another thread:

:GCB:
Pocket (standard)
Net: Slower than Pocket and grants no invincibility, but has range. Works as a command grab when used on others.
Sea Bass: Pulls out a sea bass to chuck at enemies. Sea bass for days!

:GCB::GCR:
Lloid Rocket (standard)
Mega Lloid Rocket: Hold B to charge in place, release to set fly, can only float over ground
Tall Lloid Rocket: Angle your control stick to alter flight. Explodes on Villager on contact.


:GCB::GCD:
Timber (standard)
Fir: Fir tree. Pricks enemies on touch. It can't grow close to edges.
Sakura: Larger tree that can be stood on. Takes four chops to take down.

:GCB::GCU:
Balloon Flight (standard)
Hot-Air Balloon: Gains a jetpack that sends him straight up and burns nearby enemies. Less manual control
Balloon Charity: Sprout three golden balloons with no control over flight trajectory. Press B to instead drop presents below that explode.
 
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kackamee

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#42
I honestly think Pocket is going to be a make or break move in terms of some of Villagers matchups. It looks like even if he Pockets something huge like Samus' charge shot, he can throw it back ridiculously quickly with not much end lag. And currently it doesn't seem like there is any indication of whether or not he has something in his pocket, so Villager could just have a gordo sitting in there, and potentially combo into it.

Does anyone know if you retain pocketed items after death?
 

Hong

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#43
All accounts claim the pocketed good is gone after death. Anyone is free to correct me if I am wrong.

Notes on Pocket:
Can store all reflectable projectiles
Can pick up items off the ground, including containers
Can use it to store away items in your hand
Using Pocket while an equippable item like a beam sword is stored away will cause you to equip it.
This last one I can't confirm, but using Pocket while something is in hand and already in your pocket will swap them.
 

Veggi

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#44
I like a lot of Hong's ideas for special move customizations. I have a few more I think would be cool though.

:GCB::

Let it go!: Sort of similar to Hong's. The first time Villager uses this move, he throws out a random fish (only size varies) that bounces downward like Mario's fireball and hits multiple times. It can be used to edgeguard. The second time Villager uses the move, he throws out a random flying bug that does the same thing, but flies upward in an arc instead of going downward. These alternate.

Tree Shaker: A command throw that causes Villager to grab onto his opponent and shake them like a tree, doing a lot of damage and causing them to drop whatever they were holding so that Villager can pick it up.

:GCD::GCB::

Fruit Tree: Villager buries a fruit instead of a seed. The new tree spawns three fruit that heal 7%, but can only be used after the tree gets cut or knocked down. The falling tree does less damage and does not spawn wood chips.

Solid Tree: The tree can not be passed through by anyone and is more durable to attacks by opponents, but it takes three hits to cut down, does not spawn wood chips, and lasts 2 seconds less long.

:GCU::GCB::

Fishing Line: A grabbling move that travels in a long downward arc that has a sweetspot similar to Ivysaur's up b. If an opponent gets hit by the sweetspot. The Villager and opponent both get pulled toward each other. It can also be used to grab the edge.

Furniture Bounce: Villager puts a piece of furniture below him that acts as a falling platform. If he jumps while on the bouncy furniture, he bounces very high.

Hong's side b ideas are perfecto so I didn't add any ideas.
 

Hong

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#45
Hm. But I thought extreme deviations of special moves were reserved for Palutena and Mii Fighters? Other than that, cool and creative ideas!
 

Veggi

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#46
I thought that too, but Donkey Kong has a new up b called Giant Blow and Samus has a new up b called Melee Charge Shot. I can't imagine that they are built on the original of their recovery moves, but I could be wrong.
 

MachoCheeze

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#47
Serious (but also a hilarious scenario at the same time) question...

can he pocket Pikmin?
 

Hong

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#49
Serious (but also a hilarious scenario at the same time) question...

can he pocket Pikmin?
Yes.

They are assumed to act like they would if Kirby threw them. This also means they unfortunately won't be able to retrieve items for the Villager, if this is the case.
 

MachoCheeze

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#50
I wonder if that limits Olimar's ability to pluck another Pikmin than?

Hypothetically, the villager could steal a Pikmin and then just keep it for the rest of the match?
 

Hong

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#51
I wonder if that limits Olimar's ability to pluck another Pikmin than?

Hypothetically, the villager could steal a Pikmin and then just keep it for the rest of the match?
No. It becomes Villager's and has a similar AI to that of Kirby, or lack there-of.

For all intents and purposes, the Pikmin is dead to Olimar, emotionally and mechanically.
 

Byxis

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#54
Can Villager's Fair and Bair be reflected? And can it be Pocketed by other Villagers?
 

kackamee

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#55
Can Villager's Fair and Bair be reflected? And can it be Pocketed by other Villagers?
I'm fairly sure they would be able to be reflected. I assume they'd be like Snakes Up Smash, which is reflectable iirc. But being pocketed? I'm not entirely sure but I'd assume not?
Hey OP, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tMbVUfsagg4

His special moves have REALLY interesting properties. The watering can has immense shoving power.

Edit - Ah, see you already added it. Nevermind. :b
Lol yes, I got it. I think the power of the watering can is deceiving in the video however. I remember the FLUDD in brawl looking like it had similar knockback when used on the sandbag, but we all know how it was against other players. I hope it does look as good as it seems though.
No. It becomes Villager's and has a similar AI to that of Kirby, or lack there-of.

For all intents and purposes, the Pikmin is dead to Olimar, emotionally and mechanically.
I don't like playing Olimar or Pikmin games for that reason lol. I always get so attached to my characters and I don't want any of them to die. When I play Pikmin 3, I get anxiety whenever any of my Pikmin die lol.
 

Kawaiiderpz

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#58
Based on his moveset right now. What kind of fighter do you think Villager will be?
Like, since most of his moves can go off edges, I feel like people would brand him "The Edgeguardian"
What do you all think?

Side Note: Do you think you could glide toss the wood pieces like Diddy or is he too slow for that? XD
 

Hong

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#59
Based on his moveset right now. What kind of fighter do you think Villager will be?
Like, since most of his moves can go off edges, I feel like people would brand him "The Edgeguardian"
What do you all think?

Side Note: Do you think you could glide toss the wood pieces like Diddy or is he too slow for that? XD
I thought glide toss was confirmed to have been taken out in Smash 4?

That aside, I see Villager as an environmental, territorial control character. Timber and Lloid Rocket both cover a lot of space, with the latter absorbing projectiles on its path. He's a very elusive fighter, with his directional aerials working well to keep attackers out. Inversely, his ground normals all have abysmal range, so his ability to attack directly hinges on his aerials and Lloid Rocket.
 
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MASTERLINKX

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#60
I wonder if it's possible to Pocket a Tree that has currently been cut down.
If it is, I wonder if it would be possible to pocket your own cut down tree by cutting it on a high enough platform that'll allow you to be able to have enough time to go after it and pocket it before it vanishes.
 

Kawaiiderpz

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#61
Pocket Inception XD

I thought glide toss was confirmed to have been taken out in Smash 4?

That aside, I see Villager as an environmental, territorial control character. Timber and Lloid Rocket both cover a lot of space, with the latter absorbing projectiles on its path. He's a very elusive fighter, with his directional aerials working well to keep attackers out. Inversely, his ground normals all have abysmal range, so his ability to attack directly hinges on his aerials and Lloid Rocket.
Thanks for the input! Really appreciate it!
I really like Villager's up smash :333
 
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Veggi

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#62
Villager seems like a camping character that wouldn't do as well at close-range. He has both good projectiles and good anti-projectile moves. I really think he's going to be the best at edgeguarding in this game though.

I doubt he can pocket his tree, but he should be able to pocket the wood chips that come out of it. That means he should be able to hold one and then pocket the other.
 

Wasoodle

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#63
My problem with villager so far from what I've seen is his lack of killing potential. F-smash looks so slow and predictable. Up smash doesn't seem to have much knockback. The tree is really hard to pull off. Gyroid looks like it can kill at reeeeallly high percents (only when riding on it). It looks like the turnips are his only good way, and that's luck based. :/ Down smash looks like it can lead to some follow ups though. He really shines at edge guarding though.
 

Hong

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#64
My problem with villager so far from what I've seen is his lack of killing potential. F-smash looks so slow and predictable. Up smash doesn't seem to have much knockback. The tree is really hard to pull off. Gyroid looks like it can kill at reeeeallly high percents (only when riding on it). It looks like the turnips are his only good way, and that's luck based. :/ Down smash looks like it can lead to some follow ups though. He really shines at edge guarding though.
Hard to say. Slingshot hits about as hard as Samus's missiles in Melee, and since it's such a generous attack, it could do the trick. And yeah, edge guarding game sounds great. You can chase the Lloid Rocket and catch their air dodge with the slingshot, which with his supreme jump height should really limit recovering player options.

Lloid Rocket and ftilt don't outright kill, but should at least work well enough in getting the enemy off stage.
 

Ryan.

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#65
I don't think I have seen anyone use pocket at all during E3. Maybe it is harder to use than we thought. It was my favorite thing about him.
 

Bobojack

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#67
He can attack characters who used their thether with his Bowlingball when they are like this:


It looks like he can even edge guard the OP-thether-recoverys in this game (OP because they have such a high range).
He seems to be a boss in things like edge guarding.
 

Veggi

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#69
I'm having trouble imagining how the Villager wouldn't be great at edgeguarding in this game. He has a bowling ball, watering can, tree, the tree's projectiles, Lloid, a slingshot, and two ridiculous recoveries. All of those would have to end up being bad for me to consider him not good at edgeguarding. The bowling ball seems like the most threatening though. I can't remember if his dair is a meteor, but I don't think it is.
 
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#70
@OP Sorry for the nitpick, but for Villager's Neutral Aerial, doesn't it have sexkick properties? I remember the VGBC video showing it deal ~9% early and ~5% on the late hit.

Oh hey, I stopped lurking and actually posted.
 

Hong

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#71
@OP Sorry for the nitpick, but for Villager's Neutral Aerial, doesn't it have sexkick properties? I remember the VGBC video showing it deal ~9% early and ~5% on the late hit.

Oh hey, I stopped lurking and actually posted.
This is correct. Villager flops around in the air, and it does the most damage when it immediately comes out.
 
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#72
I wonder if it's possible to Pocket a Tree that has currently been cut down.
If it is, I wonder if it would be possible to pocket your own cut down tree by cutting it on a high enough platform that'll allow you to be able to have enough time to go after it and pocket it before it vanishes.
Could we get some confirmation on this? I was wondering the same exact thing
 

TimeSmash

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#73
This is a stupid question, but his shield is just a normal shield right? In one of the videos it kept looking like his umbrella was a shield, which would have been intriguing. I ask this because I haven't watched any of those videos in a while
 

Hong

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#74
This is a stupid question, but his shield is just a normal shield right? In one of the videos it kept looking like his umbrella was a shield, which would have been intriguing. I ask this because I haven't watched any of those videos in a while
They just hold their stubby little arms up. :) You can see it in this video.
 

wafflini

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#76
I actually thought up a a good combo for the villager (Or at least, conceptualized one, who knows if it will actually work). Down tilt to knock opponent into air, follow with nair, the fair for damage, or bair for kill. If you go for either and opponent lives but is off the edge you can apply pressure by riding a gyroid with a trajectory that intercepts or goes beneath the opposing characters path of recovery.

Thoughts?
 

4cast

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#77
wafflini I don't think that works yea Down Tilt goes up Nair is fine but with Fair you'll have to move yourself to the left use it and it does little Knockback Side-B would be Better in opinion since your close to enemy and if you hop on and hit the opponent you'll get the ability to jump again I believe so you could follow it up with Uair the opponent will try and attack Hop on Gyroid which takes time and if all this works you've got one Hell of Air To Combo Game
 

4cast

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#79
That works only at a high enough Percentage Miss Fits Jab is better because it has less ending Lag and combo in to a fast D-Smash or F-Smash but Villagers F-Smash Is a great Edge-Guarding tool
 

Hong

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#80
@ wafflini wafflini
Good in concept. If you can actually land a dtilt sounds great. As it stands, it has horrible range and is rather laggy. Hard to see a point in doing it over the dsmash, unless the former has enough vertical launch power to KO.

@ 4cast 4cast goodness gracious, where has all the punctuation gone.

Also, fair and bair are immensely powerful.
 
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