How can you play Samus without knowing the windmill of fury?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnT_eaOVNJ4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnT_eaOVNJ4
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Video Critique Thread
- Thread starter Corigames
- Start date
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Oh, that...I didn't know it had a name. I just thought it was, you know, 'mixing up your dash attacks' or something. >:/
zDuck
Smash Journeyman
http://www.youtube.com/user/Juggleguy?feature=watch#p/u/6/T-bw5gmkyMQ
http://www.youtube.com/user/Juggleguy?feature=watch#p/u/0/zTr85Z-F-U4
me getting ***** by vanz, critique and stuff please
http://www.youtube.com/user/Juggleguy?feature=watch#p/u/0/zTr85Z-F-U4
me getting ***** by vanz, critique and stuff please
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Alright, well, I'm gonna try my best to help you with my observations, even though you're def a better player than me.
First vid: Near the beginning of the first match, I noticed you were spacing with WD's back into filts, but you also WD'd back into a standing grab. Personally, I think the standing version is too slow, both on startup and lag, for it to work when you're both in a neutral position. Also, you missed a couple sweetspots when recovering that led to you being dsmashed.
For the second match, I really don't like CPing Peach to FoD, simply cuz those platforms give Peach a window for dsmash shenanigans and they can screw up Samus's ground game, but I can see perks that this stage has for Samus, too, like the curved sides and all. During the first 30 seconds of that match, you really upB'd a lot. Idk if you were panicking or not, but it gave Peach several opportunities to punish. At 6:26, when u utilted Vanz while he was on the platform, I think you should have followed up to either maintain pressure or even possibly poke the shield. It could have been another utilt, possibly an uair, or even bomb>WL>grab. What you did do was spotdodge, which I don't think would have been too helpful. If he had dsmashed, you would have still been caught, so I don't think you would have avoided anything. Next, at 6:40, when Peach is recovering with upB, rather than jump and shoot missiles, I think it's best to stand your ground and see what she does since she can't attack or do anything until she lands, which you can punish. Same thing around 7:14; rather than grab the edge, staying on stage and trying to punish with a well-timed utilt/ftilt, imo, would have been the best solution. You can even pressure while preparing for this with guided missiles. At 7:55, you were late in punishing Vanz's dsmash, but it was a good attempt. I'm guessing on the last stock, you kinda panicked a little, since there are lot of bad decisions, like a bunch of missed grab attempts, especially during the last 45 seconds.
Well, that was what I observed, and I'm sorry if it's not really helpful to you or anything.
First vid: Near the beginning of the first match, I noticed you were spacing with WD's back into filts, but you also WD'd back into a standing grab. Personally, I think the standing version is too slow, both on startup and lag, for it to work when you're both in a neutral position. Also, you missed a couple sweetspots when recovering that led to you being dsmashed.
For the second match, I really don't like CPing Peach to FoD, simply cuz those platforms give Peach a window for dsmash shenanigans and they can screw up Samus's ground game, but I can see perks that this stage has for Samus, too, like the curved sides and all. During the first 30 seconds of that match, you really upB'd a lot. Idk if you were panicking or not, but it gave Peach several opportunities to punish. At 6:26, when u utilted Vanz while he was on the platform, I think you should have followed up to either maintain pressure or even possibly poke the shield. It could have been another utilt, possibly an uair, or even bomb>WL>grab. What you did do was spotdodge, which I don't think would have been too helpful. If he had dsmashed, you would have still been caught, so I don't think you would have avoided anything. Next, at 6:40, when Peach is recovering with upB, rather than jump and shoot missiles, I think it's best to stand your ground and see what she does since she can't attack or do anything until she lands, which you can punish. Same thing around 7:14; rather than grab the edge, staying on stage and trying to punish with a well-timed utilt/ftilt, imo, would have been the best solution. You can even pressure while preparing for this with guided missiles. At 7:55, you were late in punishing Vanz's dsmash, but it was a good attempt. I'm guessing on the last stock, you kinda panicked a little, since there are lot of bad decisions, like a bunch of missed grab attempts, especially during the last 45 seconds.
Well, that was what I observed, and I'm sorry if it's not really helpful to you or anything.
zDuck
Smash Journeyman
thanks a bunch, don't worry about being unhelpful, any perspective other than mine is a new perspective to consider :D
bubbaking
Smash Hero
That's good to hear. :D I should be getting to the second vid sometime soon.....when I'm less sleepy... (-_-)
ThePrime
Smash Lord
ok man
I just watched the first two games and i gotta say you HAVE to STOP being so greedy! lol! You try fishing for too many grabs, or always fair'ing up the ledge, or hoping the up-b will connect/shield poke. And most of all i just felt like you always were in a rush to get back to the center of the stage when you all you needed to do is just be patient and let him over commit so you could take you space back that way instead.
VanZ is really good tho and peach can take up a lot of space really fast with turnips and stuff, it's scary. But still, where's that filthy duck spacing? Like, instead of letting him fair your shield and then up-b'ing him, why not wd back and give him an utilt? Or just wd back in general just to create space (but this is only the case if you know 100% that he's going to land with an attack right?). So I guess what I'm trying say is be more patient and don't feel so panicked? Get center stage slowly and always attempt to create space between the peach.
Also in general what I like to do is whenever I hit a floaty way off, instead of firing missles, just start charging a shot. A charge shot is way more threatening especially if you're given the time to charge it, so why not right?
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
you shouldn't be approaching peach with samus. it took me a while to get this through my head since i play a more aggresive style with samus. since her best way of approaching usually has a WD to ftilt somewhere in the mix, and that's just asking to be dsmashed. so being defensive is the best way to beat her.
you need more double missiles on FD which forcers her approach. then just space her with WDs back into u-tilts and f-smash like the Prime said. if you decide your going to approach with an aerial do not FF if shes grounded. i mean face it, peach's OOS game is ridic.
ledge hop to fair and grabs just aren't worth it like 90% of the time against her.
use homing missiles against her when she is coming back to the stage.
like bubbaking said FoD wasn't the best CP. peach has the easiest time adapting to/making use of the changing platforms. i find that DL and PS are the best CPs for peach. control the platforms - control this match up (from my experience).
but yea, its not like i'm some stellar player lol. and you and Vanz are pretty ****ing awesome, so idk how much this will help, but i figured i'd throw it out there.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Well, why not FF? Don't you want to be back on the ground as fast as possible? Peach ***** Samus's air game. Also, PS is a good CP, but imo, DL isn't so good simply cuz the platforms don't actually help missile camping too much and I feel like Peach simply outlives Samus on that stage. Not only that but you can't upB to the safety of the top platform from the ground on this stage, and that means a lot against Peach.
For some reason, clicking on the links doesn't bring me to the vids anymore...
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ok, I watched the second vid and here's what I had to say about that:
You still went for a lot of unsafe grabs, even more than you did in Winner's Semis. Also, it seemed like you went super-aggro for some reason. I remember you told me (at Apex) that Peach beats Samus in almost everything she does, so you have to play it safe. As Prime said, "where's that filthy duck spacing?" I can see that you were trying to create pressure, though, something that's hard to do with Samus. There's gotta be some way you can prevent Peach from picking up those turnips. They're super annoying... (-_-) However, a lot of things did improve from your last set, like your recovery and your edgeguarding. Still don't think it was a good idea to go to FoD as your CP. Also, I can't believe what happened at 4:35! I was sure you should have been able to pull off that dthrow>dash attack combo no problem. How in the world did Peach manage to trade with you? How fast does that nair come out? (T_T) You still upB'd a lot, too. Might I suggest that, when you're approaching a Peach from the air and she's probably going to shield, you do your aerial deep into their shield so it's harder for her to punish? I noticed that sometimes, you'd nair her shield from the top and she'd simply shieldgrab you. 13:10, I can't believe Peach naired you right after you dthrew her. A lot of the things I said for your first set applied here, so there isn't really much else to say. All in all, though, that was some really good stuff, Duck! Can't believe you held your own against one of the best Peaches in the US. :O
You still went for a lot of unsafe grabs, even more than you did in Winner's Semis. Also, it seemed like you went super-aggro for some reason. I remember you told me (at Apex) that Peach beats Samus in almost everything she does, so you have to play it safe. As Prime said, "where's that filthy duck spacing?" I can see that you were trying to create pressure, though, something that's hard to do with Samus. There's gotta be some way you can prevent Peach from picking up those turnips. They're super annoying... (-_-) However, a lot of things did improve from your last set, like your recovery and your edgeguarding. Still don't think it was a good idea to go to FoD as your CP. Also, I can't believe what happened at 4:35! I was sure you should have been able to pull off that dthrow>dash attack combo no problem. How in the world did Peach manage to trade with you? How fast does that nair come out? (T_T) You still upB'd a lot, too. Might I suggest that, when you're approaching a Peach from the air and she's probably going to shield, you do your aerial deep into their shield so it's harder for her to punish? I noticed that sometimes, you'd nair her shield from the top and she'd simply shieldgrab you. 13:10, I can't believe Peach naired you right after you dthrew her. A lot of the things I said for your first set applied here, so there isn't really much else to say. All in all, though, that was some really good stuff, Duck! Can't believe you held your own against one of the best Peaches in the US. :O
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
i say not to fast fall into peach because her nair comes out to quick and beats all of samus' aerials pretty much. so if i'm above her i like to drop bombs to maneuver around her to get to the ground safely since shes not the fastest char and her vertical mobility is garbage.Well, why not FF? Don't you want to be back on the ground as fast as possible? Peach ***** Samus's air game. Also, PS is a good CP, but imo, DL isn't so good simply cuz the platforms don't actually help missile camping too much and I feel like Peach simply outlives Samus on that stage. Not only that but you can't upB to the safety of the top platform from the ground on this stage, and that means a lot against Peach.
For some reason, clicking on the links doesn't bring me to the vids anymore...
and to be honest i really love the height of the platforms on DL. i see what you're saying about the ability to camp efficiently, but you still have the ability to MC onto the platforms with quick double jumps, and in turn you can also shoot homing missiles on the way down after a platform drop, which really screws with peaches recovery.
plus it gives you room to run around and wave land/dash. id much rather have that room to keep peach from building any momentum, than being able to do an upB safely on FoD or Yoshi's. besides upB'ing on peach isn't all that important since she doesn't really shield pressure.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Peach's nair is the reason I'd want to fastfall. I don't want to be in the air when she busts that out. If you hit her shield, I doubt she'd be able to prevent you from landing due to shieldstun. I see what you're saying about MC's on DL and you probably can screw with Peach's recovery using guided missiles, but there's just sooooo much room for her to use to recover on that stage. If she wants, she can just recover high and guided missiles won't stop that. I'd rather kill her early before she takes advantage of the fact that Peaches gimp Samuses more easily than Samuses gimp Peaches. Tbh, I don't want room to run around, cuz it means that Peach also has room to run (away, if need be). I can't speak for the man, but I think this may actually have been the reason Duck kept CPing Vanz back to FoD. Oh, and IMO, upB is VERY important in this MU. It's a quick damage racker that Peach can't really punish when it connects; if she tries to, she often eats another one. She doesn't really shield pressure? Are you kidding me? Peach's FC'd aerials have NO LAG. That means she can easily pressure you with any aerial into an instant dsmash or some other grounded move, like a grab. Heck, she could even probably throw out another aerial and Samus wouldn't be able to really do anything about it (safely anyway).
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
yea i know what you mean about recovering high, but the distance between the top and mid platforms is perfect for homing missiles as well, and that also gives you time to charge your B. as for shield pressure, i meant peach isn't going to be sitting there poking at your shield much. and i wasn't saying there aren't times you can capitalize on by using an upB, i just don't find it to be as useful as it is against other chars.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Guided missiles from there won't do anything to a Peach recovering near the top of the screen. Charging my B will probably happen anyway if I'm edgeguarding. I don't really need her to recover high for that. Hey, if you find DL to be useful to you in this MU, then all the power to ya. I actually find Samus's upB to be extremely useful, maybe even most useful, against Peach. It keeps me from being trapped in shield due to her ridiculous FC pressure. You're right, Peach probably isn't going to be sitting there poking at my shield, but that's taken care of by dsmash. Man, this char has such BS in her favor... (-_-)
I actually find Samus's upB to be extremely useful, maybe even most useful, against Peach. It keeps me from being trapped in shield due to her ridiculous FC pressure. You're right, Peach probably isn't going to be sitting there poking at my shield, but that's taken care of by dsmash. Man, this char has such BS in her favor... (-_-)
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXgBb3eNs2Y
I'm still having trouble with the Marth matchup.
I'm still having trouble with the Marth matchup.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Ok, in the first game, you were off to an excellent start. Staying grounded, spacing those ftilts, but I think you took a really big risk when you jumped up to WL off that platform into a falling uair. You didn't get punished, but you could have been comboed pretty hard there. Later, you continue to take risks jumping like that, which is really dangerous against Marth, and sometimes you did get punished. After you took the first stock, I think you should have taken the time to charge your Charge Shot at least partially. When you knocked him down at 1:05, you decided to play it safe w/ missiles, but personally, I would have tried to take advantage of the fact that he didn't tech, either by directly hitting him on the ground or by trying to punish his get-up. At 2:06, when he whiffed an upB, you should have stayed grounded. I think you may have thought that he was going to land on the platform, so you went for a nair, which missed since he fell thru the platform. However, if you had stayed grounded, you could have covered both options. If he landed on the platform, you could have hit him w/ utilt, and if he fell thru, you could hit him w/ anything you want. This is generally how you always want to be with Samus, especially against Marth. Stay grounded and assess your options from there. Don't forget that Samus's utilt covers every legal lower platform in the game except for Dreamland's and it often pokes shields when you hit them from below. Also, avoid rolling so much; it ultimately cost you your second stock. During your third stock, I know you were in a pretty bad spot when you were recovering (on the left side), but as a mixup, you may want to consider just unloading the charge shot in their face. If it hits, you get a free recovery, and if they shield it, the shield stun is usually enough to grant you a little extra time. Oh, and do NOT forget to always DI away from Marth when he's comboing you. Not doing this ultimately cost you your third stock. This is true for every char vs Marth, even Marth himself. Finally, work more on getting the sweetspots w/ your upB. You kinda got hit a lot for upB'ing above the ledge.
2nd game - This is ultimately how you died during your first stock: You rolled, you were grabbed and fthrown, you did not DI away, you were tipper FSMASHED. One thing I feel you must do is take greater advantage of Samus's CC abilities, something you cannot do if you are in the air (which you were.....a lot). For example, at 5:00, you did an empty SH, and then a FJ, which forced you to trade w/ his fsmash, something you could have easily shielded, CC'd (you were at 0%), or possibly even just beat out w/ ftilt. For edgeguarding, I would suggest utilting Marth if he's forced to upB. Now at 6:00, you tried to jump (again) and ate an fsmash. Anyway, you pretty much spaced well w/ ftilt, but I suggest mixing in some utilts, especially when he's shielding. I noticed that sometimes, Marth would grab you right after you ftilted, and utilts have less lag plus they combo so they're definitely worth consideration. Now, this is how you lost your third stock: you jumped and WL'd onto a platform (a no-no against Marth on Yoshi's when he's that close); Marth faired you and you failed to DI AWAY; you were FSMASHED! (T_T) After that lost stock, you did EXTREMELY well punishing his attempted movements w/ spaced ftilts, but then, at 6:26, he landed on the lower left platform while you were walking under it. This was the perfect time to pressure him w/ utilt, but instead, you jumped at him w/ nair. Now luckily, you hit him, but if you had utilted him, you could have comboed him into nair which would have sent him offstage the way you wanted. Ok, at 7:02, you JUMPED, Marth faired you, you DID NOT DI AWAY, Marth fsmashed and almost killed you. Are you sensing a pattern here, cuz I sure am. I know it's counter-intuitive to DI further off the stage cuz it just seems to put you in a worse position, but believe me, you absolutely must do it against Marth if you want to survive. This is part of the reason why Marth is such a good char. There is similar reasoning when Fox is comboing you. Many times, you'll find yourself being comboed to the end of the stage (oftentimes w/ nair>nair>nair), and if you DI in, you get killed w/ usmash. I'll talk more about it at the end of this post (probably in an edit), but essentially, there are two kinds of practical DI you must be familiar with: Combo DI and Survival DI. Anyway, back to the critique. Last stock (for both of you), you were faced with a dillemna that plagues all smashers. What do I do when my opponent is coming off the respawn platform? You have a couple options, but the one you chose was not so hot.....you jumped. (-_-) Your punishment wasn't too severe, just an utilt and a fair, but it still tacked on 22%, damage you did not need. I guess I'll also try to talk about options you have in that situation at the end of this post as well. Finally, I guess you were really unlucky during a lot of that last stock, but try to avoid being in the position that you were in right before you died. Marth dair shenanigans are too consistent... (T_T)
3rd game: You kinda started off on the wrong foot here, jumping into his fair (oh no, we remember what that means O_O), but you then proceeded to dominate the first stock with superior camping. Oh, I noticed that you like to follow up your MCs with a dash attack. Might I suggest a new mixup for you? MC> dash grab. It works. The opponent blocks the missile and expects a dash attack, but he gets grabbed instead. I've even managed to time it so that I grabbed the opponent out of the hitstun of the missile when he didn't shield it. Unfortunately, you lost your first stock to....dair shenanigans. Don't forget to CC! A lot of those fairs popped you up off the ground and left you susceptible to combos. At 10:13, you WL'd off a platform into Marth's fair and did not DI away, but he chose not to punish you, luckily. Your second stock was ultimately lost at 10:21 when you jumped up, naired onto the platform and then rolled, allowing Marth to knock you off the platform and proceed to hit you until you died. From there until the end of the game, you really never CC'd. If you're at low %'s, Marth isn't spaced properly, and there's a good chance that he's gonna fair you, make sure you CC. You usually get a free attack off on him, and even if you don't, at least you're not in the air where you can be combo'd. Now, I need you to understand me when I tell you to jump less often. I'm not saying to never ever leave the ground. Sometimes, you have to, and sometimes, it's totally safe, but you really should do it much more sparingly, especially when he's within punishing distance. Even HugS himself said in a post that noob Samuses tend to jump whenever they feel the least bit pressured. You've gotta stay cool, calm, and collected and keep your feet planted on the ground.....most of the time.
One thing I must say is that, during the initial stage striking, IMO, FoD should have been stricken along with Yoshi's. There's little room to maneuver and to take advantage of Samus's survivability against Marth on that stage. Anyway, you won. After that, I don't know what stage you banned, but it probably should have been Yoshi's-whoops, I'm sorry-Marth's Story. You're asking to be combo'd here since every single part of the stage is easily within reach of his. I think he can even reach the top platform w/ SHFFL uair. (O_-) I did, however, like the Poke Stadium CP. Good stage for missile camping and Marth can get Battlefielded here, too.
Still though, I probably would have preferred Dreamland as a CP, just because of the large blastzones for survivability and the spacing of the platforms. Marth can't fsmash you from below if you're on them unless he's perfectly below you. It's also harder for him to combo you from platform to platform. On Stadium, the ceiling is pretty low, so you risk janky deaths to utilt. Of course, you can also be fsmashed easily from the platforms. Lolz, both of these deaths happened to you, actually... XD
All in all, it was a nice set. Good work on winning man! I hope I didn't sound mean, cuz if I did, I really didn't mean to. Wow, I totally did not think that I would write this much..... (@_@)
tl;dr - Stay grounded!
2nd game - This is ultimately how you died during your first stock: You rolled, you were grabbed and fthrown, you did not DI away, you were tipper FSMASHED. One thing I feel you must do is take greater advantage of Samus's CC abilities, something you cannot do if you are in the air (which you were.....a lot). For example, at 5:00, you did an empty SH, and then a FJ, which forced you to trade w/ his fsmash, something you could have easily shielded, CC'd (you were at 0%), or possibly even just beat out w/ ftilt. For edgeguarding, I would suggest utilting Marth if he's forced to upB. Now at 6:00, you tried to jump (again) and ate an fsmash. Anyway, you pretty much spaced well w/ ftilt, but I suggest mixing in some utilts, especially when he's shielding. I noticed that sometimes, Marth would grab you right after you ftilted, and utilts have less lag plus they combo so they're definitely worth consideration. Now, this is how you lost your third stock: you jumped and WL'd onto a platform (a no-no against Marth on Yoshi's when he's that close); Marth faired you and you failed to DI AWAY; you were FSMASHED! (T_T) After that lost stock, you did EXTREMELY well punishing his attempted movements w/ spaced ftilts, but then, at 6:26, he landed on the lower left platform while you were walking under it. This was the perfect time to pressure him w/ utilt, but instead, you jumped at him w/ nair. Now luckily, you hit him, but if you had utilted him, you could have comboed him into nair which would have sent him offstage the way you wanted. Ok, at 7:02, you JUMPED, Marth faired you, you DID NOT DI AWAY, Marth fsmashed and almost killed you. Are you sensing a pattern here, cuz I sure am. I know it's counter-intuitive to DI further off the stage cuz it just seems to put you in a worse position, but believe me, you absolutely must do it against Marth if you want to survive. This is part of the reason why Marth is such a good char. There is similar reasoning when Fox is comboing you. Many times, you'll find yourself being comboed to the end of the stage (oftentimes w/ nair>nair>nair), and if you DI in, you get killed w/ usmash. I'll talk more about it at the end of this post (probably in an edit), but essentially, there are two kinds of practical DI you must be familiar with: Combo DI and Survival DI. Anyway, back to the critique. Last stock (for both of you), you were faced with a dillemna that plagues all smashers. What do I do when my opponent is coming off the respawn platform? You have a couple options, but the one you chose was not so hot.....you jumped. (-_-) Your punishment wasn't too severe, just an utilt and a fair, but it still tacked on 22%, damage you did not need. I guess I'll also try to talk about options you have in that situation at the end of this post as well. Finally, I guess you were really unlucky during a lot of that last stock, but try to avoid being in the position that you were in right before you died. Marth dair shenanigans are too consistent... (T_T)
3rd game: You kinda started off on the wrong foot here, jumping into his fair (oh no, we remember what that means O_O), but you then proceeded to dominate the first stock with superior camping.
Oh, I noticed that you like to follow up your MCs with a dash attack. Might I suggest a new mixup for you? MC> dash grab. It works. The opponent blocks the missile and expects a dash attack, but he gets grabbed instead. I've even managed to time it so that I grabbed the opponent out of the hitstun of the missile when he didn't shield it. Unfortunately, you lost your first stock to....dair shenanigans. Don't forget to CC! A lot of those fairs popped you up off the ground and left you susceptible to combos. At 10:13, you WL'd off a platform into Marth's fair and did not DI away, but he chose not to punish you, luckily. Your second stock was ultimately lost at 10:21 when you jumped up, naired onto the platform and then rolled, allowing Marth to knock you off the platform and proceed to hit you until you died. From there until the end of the game, you really never CC'd. If you're at low %'s, Marth isn't spaced properly, and there's a good chance that he's gonna fair you, make sure you CC. You usually get a free attack off on him, and even if you don't, at least you're not in the air where you can be combo'd. Now, I need you to understand me when I tell you to jump less often. I'm not saying to never ever leave the ground. Sometimes, you have to, and sometimes, it's totally safe, but you really should do it much more sparingly, especially when he's within punishing distance. Even HugS himself said in a post that noob Samuses tend to jump whenever they feel the least bit pressured. You've gotta stay cool, calm, and collected and keep your feet planted on the ground.....most of the time.One thing I must say is that, during the initial stage striking, IMO, FoD should have been stricken along with Yoshi's. There's little room to maneuver and to take advantage of Samus's survivability against Marth on that stage. Anyway, you won. After that, I don't know what stage you banned, but it probably should have been Yoshi's-whoops, I'm sorry-Marth's Story. You're asking to be combo'd here since every single part of the stage is easily within reach of his. I think he can even reach the top platform w/ SHFFL uair. (O_-) I did, however, like the Poke Stadium CP. Good stage for missile camping and Marth can get Battlefielded here, too.
Still though, I probably would have preferred Dreamland as a CP, just because of the large blastzones for survivability and the spacing of the platforms. Marth can't fsmash you from below if you're on them unless he's perfectly below you. It's also harder for him to combo you from platform to platform. On Stadium, the ceiling is pretty low, so you risk janky deaths to utilt. Of course, you can also be fsmashed easily from the platforms. Lolz, both of these deaths happened to you, actually... XDAll in all, it was a nice set. Good work on winning man!
I hope I didn't sound mean, cuz if I did, I really didn't mean to. Wow, I totally did not think that I would write this much..... (@_@)tl;dr - Stay grounded!
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Thank you so much for that long critique write-up. It's really helpful. We weren't banning stages because we were just doing friendlies, but I'm definitely going to ban YS against Marth, lol. For the shield rolling problem, I think that was because I was getting frustrated at the matchup and wasn't able to stay calm and focused, so I hit shield before inputting jump/direction. I'll try working on jumping less. I never thought about jumping being a noob samus' way to deal with pressure. I also need to work on getting faster at doing WD utilt. I tend to do WD ftilt more than WD utilt because I'm afraid that I'll mess up and accidentally jump.
I didn't look at how bad my DI was until you pointed it out.. geez my DI is horrible.
Against Marth's fair / fsmash, what is the best (S)DI? (S)DI up and away?
Thank you for those extra tips as well. :D
EDIT: MC -> dash grab is good, but what do you do if they PS reflect instead of shielding the hit? Try to CC/PS reflect/take the hit?
I didn't look at how bad my DI was until you pointed it out.. geez my DI is horrible.
Against Marth's fair / fsmash, what is the best (S)DI? (S)DI up and away?
Thank you for those extra tips as well. :D
EDIT: MC -> dash grab is good, but what do you do if they PS reflect instead of shielding the hit? Try to CC/PS reflect/take the hit?
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
http://www.twitch.tv/standardtoaster/b/312124211
I feel like I did a bit better this time using those critiques. This is about an hours worth of footage so don't feel like you need to critique the whole thing. lol
I feel like I did a bit better this time using those critiques. This is about an hours worth of footage so don't feel like you need to critique the whole thing. lol
bubbaking
Smash Hero
To be honest, I'm not exactly sure what the optimal DI vs Marth is, but I DO know that DIing as hard as you can away from marth's fair ensures that you won't be combo'd. No SDI is needed. Of course, this is all assuming that you're in the air for some reason. For the most part, Marth's fair can be CC'd if shielding it isn't feasible. Same goes for fsmash and it will actually help you survive longer. I don't think any SDI could do anything much, except maybe SDI down so you can tech the fsmash. As for regular DI, to the best of my knowledge, Marth's fsmash is too laggy for him to actually combo off of it, even if you DI in. Since fsmash will probably be hitting you more at high %'s in attempts to kill you, survival DI would be up and towards the stage.
If they PS reflect your missile, CCing (at low %'s) and PS reflecting would probably work, but iirc, IHSB said that Samus can actually dash attack through a reflected missile if you hit with the strongest part of the move.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Dash attacking a missile destroys it and u go back to standing iirc
bubbaking
Smash Hero
If that's the case, then you're back at neutral, which could be a bad thing unless they kept themselves in shield. In that situation, you could possibly grab or go for jab mixups. Never really thought about that kind of situation that far down the line, though.
ihavespaceblondes
Smash Master
It's mainly useful for shined missiles, as they'll still be in reflector lag.
Violence
Smash Lord
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PWoq2hz0y0E
I already have a bunch of my own ideas about what went wrong here...
But I would also like more input from other people experienced with the matchup.
Thoughts?
I already have a bunch of my own ideas about what went wrong here...
But I would also like more input from other people experienced with the matchup.
Thoughts?
In game 1, you didn't use a single tilt, Utilt, Ftilt, or Dtilt, the entire game. Take my advice with a grain of salt, but I think you should work more on staying grounded, spacing your attacks, and stop trying to be aggressive with missiles and nairs/bairs. You can't overpower Peach and you can't punish her missed hits that easily due to float canceling. Try staying just out of range of her Fair/Bair (Whichever way she's facing) and poke her with Utilts and upward Ftilts when she gets too close. Either that, or use Uairs more since they are a bit safer to use against her.
g2 was a lot like the first, except you didn't have platforms to help you get around her; so your aggression was punished twice as hard. Try shielding her attacks WD OoS to get away. If she does an aerial while floating, yeah, jump and Nair/Bair, but don't be baited by the floating witch to jump and hit her or you're going to catch a move to the face. You also never caught a single turnip, it's not necessary to, but it's better than letting them hit you.
I have a lot of trouble with this MU too, but I've been getting more practice with Silly Kyle recently and I'm starting to feel better about it.
g2 was a lot like the first, except you didn't have platforms to help you get around her; so your aggression was punished twice as hard. Try shielding her attacks WD OoS to get away. If she does an aerial while floating, yeah, jump and Nair/Bair, but don't be baited by the floating witch to jump and hit her or you're going to catch a move to the face. You also never caught a single turnip, it's not necessary to, but it's better than letting them hit you.
I have a lot of trouble with this MU too, but I've been getting more practice with Silly Kyle recently and I'm starting to feel better about it.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I also find upB to be quite useful in this matchup. It keeps her from landing stupid stuff off of FC's, like grabs. It also interrupts her during her floating pretty reliably.
Edit: Um, sorry for the double post.
Edit: Um, sorry for the double post.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
Dang, she kept PSing your missiles that first match. (@_@) I also got the impression that you jumped around a bit too much. Also screwed up quite a few of your tether recoveries. In addition to these things, I think you should have saved your jump when you got hit offstage at 2:35. When you got hit, you jumped immediately and then tried to bomb jump back, but Peach hit you out of it w/ fair. I like to save my jump, especially against Peach, because if she tries to do some stupid crap like that, I can just jump over her and hit her for her troubles. There's nothing more satisfying than meteor smashing a Peach who was trying to gimp you. Definitely consider unloading your charge shot on floating Peach. It's probably a better and safer option than jumping up to kick her.
Edit: Oh, I noticed that you tried to do some jab mixups (second game). I think that sometimes, you should try throwing in two or three jabs instead of just 1. Not the full jab combo, two crouch-cancelled jabs. They put decent shield pressure, and they give her shield more time to diminish in size. Also, after like two or three, a lot of opponents feel like they need to commit to something for some reason. So I end up doing, jab>crouch>jab>crouch>fsmash/dsmash really fast and it catches them a lot. If they actually shield the whole thing, then you know that your opponent is probably conditioned to stay in shield, so you can try for jab>grab mixups.
Edit2: Was reading the comments on Youtube under the vid and the latest one (at this time) also said (screamed, in fact) to shoot your charge shot.
Edit3: This is the last edit, I promise! Really nice SWD at the end there! :D Now, this is just theory, but if I saw a Samus rocketing at me from across the stage, my first impulse would be to shield, which means you should grab.
Definitely consider unloading your charge shot on floating Peach. It's probably a better and safer option than jumping up to kick her.Edit: Oh, I noticed that you tried to do some jab mixups (second game). I think that sometimes, you should try throwing in two or three jabs instead of just 1. Not the full jab combo, two crouch-cancelled jabs. They put decent shield pressure, and they give her shield more time to diminish in size. Also, after like two or three, a lot of opponents feel like they need to commit to something for some reason. So I end up doing, jab>crouch>jab>crouch>fsmash/dsmash really fast and it catches them a lot.
If they actually shield the whole thing, then you know that your opponent is probably conditioned to stay in shield, so you can try for jab>grab mixups.Edit2: Was reading the comments on Youtube under the vid and the latest one (at this time) also said (screamed, in fact) to shoot your charge shot.
Edit3: This is the last edit, I promise! Really nice SWD at the end there! :D Now, this is just theory, but if I saw a Samus rocketing at me from across the stage, my first impulse would be to shield, which means you should grab.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
By jab -> crouch, do you mean jab -> down or jab -> down and away from the direction Samus is facing? I haven't tried to jab -> down before, I've always done jab -> down and away, but I can only do it by facing to the left and doing it down and to the right.
Also, does a SH nair retain the momentum from a SWD?
Also, does a SH nair retain the momentum from a SWD?
bubbaking
Smash Hero
I just do jab>down. A little bit of practice will help you find the timing. It's not good if you can only do it one way cuz that's very situational. Other things you can do are jab>spot-dodge and jab>WD. I've never tried mixing the three, lolz. In all honesty, people don't usually shield enough for you to keep jabbing them for long. The three jab mixups mentioned here each have their own specific uses.
Edit: I know nothing about SWD's other than how to perfom them. :/ However, iirc, SH's do not change the momentum of a SWD, so a SH nair should actually retain the momentum, as you said. The only things, I think, that can remove from the momentum of a SWD are running/walking/WDing backwards and bombing.
MonkUnit
Project M Back Roomer
Cool. Thanks for the info.
bubbaking
Smash Hero
No problemo.
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
i know i was giving advice on how to combat peach a little ways back in here. i guess i forgot how completely different it is to be playing vs just watching. anyway, some of the matches are really great, and the others, not so much. but yea, these were just friendlies/practice for gauntlet. lemme know what you think. stuff i should do more. stuff i should just completely avoid doing. and if anyone can tell me a better way to ledge hop with samus against peach, that'd be awesome, because i really have no idea what to do in most circumstances.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2770330385645A67&feature=plcp
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2770330385645A67&feature=plcp
Oroxis
Smash Rookie
I'm getting an unknown playlist when I click the link. Could you repost it?
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
i just took them down like the day before yesterday because i hadn't gotten any feedback lol. but yea sure, i'll throw a few of them up now..
well..i put them back up if you or anyone wants to check them out.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2770330385645A67&feature=mh_lolz
well..i put them back up if you or anyone wants to check them out.
http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL2770330385645A67&feature=mh_lolz
vadgama
Smash Journeyman
First off, I notice you're trying to use missiles as damage rackers against peach. Don't do that. Fire your missiles to get her to go where you want her. Don't shoot missiles to hit, shoot them to trap.
If she's off the edge. Or just being annoying and floating. Try shooting homings instead of supers. Also, mix up between supers and homings. You're using too many supers, and when you do that, it's easy to predict.
Don't purposely go off the edge when you're playing peach. A good peach will wreck you with turnips and the rest of her arsenal. Stay grounded.
You're using too many aerials, a good peach will punish the crud out of you for that, and the person you were playing started to punish you for it. Peaches want to rule the air, and they do a pretty good job. Give them the air, you take the ground. If you're going to do an aerial, do it a as a punishment.
Play defensively, some of her moves will tear you to shreds if you don't. Again, work on ground game, jab cancels, f-tilts, u-tilts.
Other than that nice job, you pulled off some pretty sweet combos.
Edit: Also, never DI anywhere near the ground or CC when peach does her down smash. You will take massive unnecessary damage. DI and tech the heck outta there.
If she's off the edge. Or just being annoying and floating. Try shooting homings instead of supers. Also, mix up between supers and homings. You're using too many supers, and when you do that, it's easy to predict.
Don't purposely go off the edge when you're playing peach. A good peach will wreck you with turnips and the rest of her arsenal. Stay grounded.
You're using too many aerials, a good peach will punish the crud out of you for that, and the person you were playing started to punish you for it. Peaches want to rule the air, and they do a pretty good job. Give them the air, you take the ground. If you're going to do an aerial, do it a as a punishment.
Play defensively, some of her moves will tear you to shreds if you don't. Again, work on ground game, jab cancels, f-tilts, u-tilts.
Other than that nice job, you pulled off some pretty sweet combos.
Edit: Also, never DI anywhere near the ground or CC when peach does her down smash. You will take massive unnecessary damage. DI and tech the heck outta there.
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
i totally see what you mean, i didn't get to read your stuff before i played this same guy last night. but a friend of mine told me i come rushing in with aerials too much so im trying to keep grounded and feel comfortable doing so.
but anyway back to last night, i was really trying to space him out with ftilts and jabs, which i was doing pretty well imo. but then he would take to the air when he saw the ground was more or less a losing battle for him every time.
the thing is when peach is above me hovering i find myself WD'ing back throwing out utilts/fsmashes when i thought he was going to come in with an attack...they would rarley connect though. this would happen until i found myself at the edge of the stage pretty frequently...my answer to this was to run in with nair/uair and improvise from there...
if i'm wrong lemme know, but when i'm feeling pressured like this, would my best bet be to upB jst to reset everything/make him feel uneasy about hovering above me.
and yea, i see what youur saying about the missle thing...i'm definitely gonna work on mixing them up and which combinations can be executed from given heights and stuff.
and thanks so much for the feedback bro. ^_^
but anyway back to last night, i was really trying to space him out with ftilts and jabs, which i was doing pretty well imo. but then he would take to the air when he saw the ground was more or less a losing battle for him every time.
the thing is when peach is above me hovering i find myself WD'ing back throwing out utilts/fsmashes when i thought he was going to come in with an attack...they would rarley connect though. this would happen until i found myself at the edge of the stage pretty frequently...my answer to this was to run in with nair/uair and improvise from there...
if i'm wrong lemme know, but when i'm feeling pressured like this, would my best bet be to upB jst to reset everything/make him feel uneasy about hovering above me.
and yea, i see what youur saying about the missle thing...i'm definitely gonna work on mixing them up and which combinations can be executed from given heights and stuff.
and thanks so much for the feedback bro. ^_^
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
Also soup mentioned that u always wavedash the same distance (full wavedash distance) i feel like mixing this up could mess with my spacing.
Also u r over thinking why i floated, i didnt do it b/c u were winning the ground game but b/c i like to float lol.
Lastly it is obvious that when i float your plan is to wavedash back and do a tilt or a smash, knowing this it was easy for me to back u into a corner. Now idk what u should be doing instead just explaining how i got u into that situation.
Also u r over thinking why i floated, i didnt do it b/c u were winning the ground game but b/c i like to float lol.
Lastly it is obvious that when i float your plan is to wavedash back and do a tilt or a smash, knowing this it was easy for me to back u into a corner. Now idk what u should be doing instead just explaining how i got u into that situation.
vadgama
Smash Journeyman
No probs man.
Peaches LOVE to float. I'll reiterate, peaches love to dominate the air.
- If she's floating a decent ways away from you, send a super and a homing or maybe evena charge shot her way. She'll have to do something. Keep doing this to see their reaction, if their reaction is predictable punish them accordingly.
- If peach is floating closer to you and she's fairly close to the ground. Use tilts, or upB her if she gets too close at that height.
- If peach is floating but she's fairly high above the ground and out of reach of your tilts and she's intimidating you into a corner. Don't upB her. Even if it does hit, it will do minimal damage and it puts you in a bad position. When you reach a corner of the stage and you feel you have no place to go but jump in the air and attack her or try to run under her, run or WD under her or dash dance, become unpredicable. If you jump or go off the edge of the stage, expect a beat-down or death. While nairs do work pretty well, it's best to stick to the floor if you can.
Peaches LOVE to float. I'll reiterate, peaches love to dominate the air.
- If she's floating a decent ways away from you, send a super and a homing or maybe evena charge shot her way. She'll have to do something. Keep doing this to see their reaction, if their reaction is predictable punish them accordingly.
- If peach is floating closer to you and she's fairly close to the ground. Use tilts, or upB her if she gets too close at that height.
- If peach is floating but she's fairly high above the ground and out of reach of your tilts and she's intimidating you into a corner. Don't upB her. Even if it does hit, it will do minimal damage and it puts you in a bad position. When you reach a corner of the stage and you feel you have no place to go but jump in the air and attack her or try to run under her, run or WD under her or dash dance, become unpredicable. If you jump or go off the edge of the stage, expect a beat-down or death. While nairs do work pretty well, it's best to stick to the floor if you can.
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
ben, can you just let me think i was winning the ground game. >_< lmao
and that's pretty interesting about the wavedash thing. you're both totally right though. i definitely should work on that.
and thanks a whole bunch for breaking it down like that for me vadgama. i'll keep everything your saying in mind and try to apply it next time around.
and that's pretty interesting about the wavedash thing. you're both totally right though. i definitely should work on that.
and thanks a whole bunch for breaking it down like that for me vadgama. i'll keep everything your saying in mind and try to apply it next time around.
N.A.G.A.C.E
Smash Champion
Well u might of been winning the ground game, i just like to float lol
KidWithChemicals
Smash Cadet
thank you ben<3 good games yesterday btw.
and i probably wouldn't be able to say that without your advice vadgama. so thank you too!!
and i probably wouldn't be able to say that without your advice vadgama. so thank you too!!