Victory Road :: Pokemon Tier Legality Discussion

[JOE!]

my point was that I was simply adding to the convo of "stuff that makes Dory not as broken as he seems"

 

[Wave⁂]

That's not really what the discussion was, but I guess that'd okay since we talked about that last week.

Other stuff that can kill Doryuuzu after setting up:
DDGyara
DDMence
SD Sub Cacturne
SubSD Leichi Empoleon
DD Altaria
SD Dig Sunny Day Shedinja

 

[JOE!]

yeah, im notorious for not checking dates....

 

[mood4food77]

the only thing i really hate about doryuuzu is that you have to make your team able to beat it AND garchomp

one of them is fine, it's the combination of both that really screws you over

doryuuzu is leaving a dent in something, there's no denying that, but then garchomp comes in and you're like ****, i have to deal with him now

most bulky pokemon can handle one of them, they usually cannot handle both, especially when nothing is guaranteed against garchomp cause of sand veil

really, i think both should be banned if their usage becomes absurdly high

but i will say this, garchomp is definitely a lot easier to deal with than doryuuzu

 

[Tenodera]

That's not really what the discussion was, but I guess that'd okay since we talked about that last week.

Other stuff that can kill Doryuuzu after setting up:
DDGyara
DDMence
SD Sub Cacturne
SubSD Leichi Empoleon
DD Altaria
SD Dig Sunny Day Shedinja

Wait, do you mean after Dory sets up or after that Pokemon does? If it's the former (which makes more sense), how well do Gyara and Mence stand up to +1 Rock Slide? Cacturne has to watch out for X-Scissor even though he has a chance due to Sand Veil. Empoleon taking a +2 STAB Earthquake from that attack is surprising, and Altaria and Shedinja also get maimed by Rock Slide.

Doryuuzu is pretty scared of any Mach Punch, Vacuum Wave, strong Aqua Jet user. BulkyChomp and perhaps Swampert might/should be able to take a hit and retaliate with Earthquake (if no Balloon) or Dragon Tail to phaze 'im. As for "countering" instead of just revenge-killing... switch Balloon Drought Ninetails on a predicted Earthquake!

 

[CT Chia]

That's not really what the discussion was, but I guess that'd okay since we talked about that last week.

Other stuff that can kill Doryuuzu after setting up:
DDGyara
DDMence
SD Sub Cacturne
SubSD Leichi Empoleon
DD Altaria
SD Dig Sunny Day Shedinja

Wait, so these pokes have to set up first? Unlikely.

And what moveset are we talkin here on Dory? I run @Balloon, SD EQ RockSlide XScissor
RS hits Sheddy
XS hits Cacturne
etc
etc

 

[Wave⁂]

I'm not the one who brought up the conversation of Pokemon who can beat Dory after setting up.

 

[CT Chia]

The only pokemon I've found that really can are strong priority hitters with Vac Wave Mach Punch and Aqua Jet, and Gliscor.

 

[Wrath`]

I run Infernape/Roopushin. Dorry can not handle two Mach Punchers. Of course I become Shanderra bait as Roopushin does not learn u turn.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I run Infernape/Roopushin. Dorry can not handle two Mach Punchers. Of course I become Shanderra bait as Roopushin does not learn u turn.

Doesn't Roobushin get Payback to hit Shandera for supereffective damage on the switch-in and stuff?

 

[UltiMario]

Payback doesn't get extra damage on the switch anymore, so EQ ans SE are your only options.

If you mess up the prediction, Shandera OHKOs with Overheat.

 

[kirbyraeg]

I run Ditto.

 

[NJzFinest]

Technican Breloom >>>>>> Dory

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Payback doesn't get extra damage on the switch anymore, so EQ ans SE are your only options.

If you mess up the prediction, Shandera OHKOs with Overheat.

Really? That's a shame.

I thought Shandera doesn't have Levitate? Or maybe I'm misunderstanding what you mean when you say the predictino between Earthquake and Stone Miss.

 

[kirbyraeg]

He just means if you try to mach punch a shandy switch-in you'll die to overheat next turn. You have to predict it switching in.

Breloom also gets ****ed by shandera.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

He just means if you try to mach punch a shandy switch-in you'll die to overheat next turn. You have to predict it switching in.

Ahh.

Breloom also gets ****ed by shandera.

On the flip side, does Breloom OHKO Shandera with a 5-hit Bullet Seed if Stealth Rocks are up?

 

[UltiMario]

On the flip side, does Breloom OHKO Shandera with a 5-hit Bullet Seed if Stealth Rocks are up?

I am absolutely certain it does.

It doesn't matter if that craps resisted, Shandera is a frail **** and 5 hits can easily accumulate to 75%

 

[kirbyraeg]

Yes. It has a small chance to ko with max damage rolls on 4 and is guaranteed with 5.

So you have about a 15% chance of beating it. lol.

 

[NJzFinest]

I run shed shell on my Breloom.

A decent number of other players do as well. You don't need LO to hit hard, even without SD.

**** shandera :D

 

[The Real Gamer]

Shed Shell on Breloom is the way to go.

 

[UltiMario]

Or you could play Wifi and not Dream World

:V

 

[kirbyraeg]

Or you could switch in Espeon, who will beat any breloom that uses anything to set up ever.

 

[The Real Gamer]

Or you could overpredict the Espeon switch in and Bullet Seed it from the get go.

I've actually done that once. :3

 

[Terywj [태리]]

I don't know if it was stated in here or not, but someone mentioned Tropius as a means of coming into Breloom. Tropius resists Mach Punch and Bullet Seed, has Harvest to bypass Spore (although the true mechanics of Harvest hinder this somewhat), has Roost, and can Air Slash away.

I've never tested it out, although the thought process seems viable. But then again, it's Tropius.

 

[M.K]

With Sunny Day support, Tropius can fire off some nasty Solarbeams as well.

Tropius @ Lum Berry with Air Slash/Solarbeam/Hidden Power/something is viable.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

With Sunny Day support, Tropius can fire off some nasty Solarbeams as well.

Tropius @ Lum Berry with Air Slash/Solarbeam/Hidden Power/something is viable.

Breloom resists Solarbeam. Unless you were merely referring to Tropius as a whole.

But then you're using Sunny Day...

 

[kirbyraeg]

Sunny Day is the best weather move. It has the worst set-up pokemon though.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Sunny Day is the best weather move. It has the worst set-up pokemon though.

Define "best weather move" for me?

 

[kirbyraeg]

It produces the best weather.

Reading that again, that entire post makes no sense.

Sun is the best weather. Ninetales is the worst weather pokemon ever in OU (Groudon is awesome)

 

[The Real Gamer]

I don't know if it was stated in here or not, but someone mentioned Tropius as a means of coming into Breloom. Tropius resists Mach Punch and Bullet Seed, has Harvest to bypass Spore (although the true mechanics of Harvest hinder this somewhat), has Roost, and can Air Slash away.

I've never tested it out, although the thought process seems viable. But then again, it's Tropius.

That was actually me. I saw a few people use it against my own Loom, and it worked wonders.

Idk about its viability outside of countering Breloom, though.

 

[UltiMario]

Since when it Sun a good weather? lmao

 

[Wrath`]

I thought Rain was the best weather.

 

[UltiMario]

Its probably Sand, actually.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Sandstorm > Rain Dance > Sunny Day > Hailol

 

[UltiMario]

Hail is only good because it's the perfect anti-weather weather.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Hail is only good because it's the perfect anti-weather weather.

Hail got "okay" additions. I mean, Thick Fat Mamoswine is nice, and there was something else which came to mind. Don't remember what it is, though.

And we can't forget about Rotom-Freeze. Oh man.

 

[kirbyraeg]

Rain>Sand>Sun>Hail

Rain has the offensive advantage over sand, and it can wear down ttar/hippo after repeated switch-ins on surf.

 

[UltiMario]

You have to always double switch your Poli though, because if TTar comes in, you're just Pursuit bait for it. If it can KO you on your way out, it doesn't matter what damage you do on its way in.

When Sand is up, it's even more destructive, considering a single Pokemon can't effectively break the team's momentum like Nattorei can.

 

[Wrath`]

Every sand team runs Dorry, it is a very predictable weather.

 

[Terywj [태리]]

Every sand team runs Dorry, it is a very predictable weather.

Predictability does not stop how destructive Sandstorm abusers like Doryuuzu and Garchomp can be, though.