Official Veterans Discussion

[ryuu seika]

I really want the Miis out of Smash, but @SmashChu you're really grasping at straws here.
The Switch hasn't even been out for a year. It's very likely that we will see a new Mii game later down the road. Even then, the Mii Maker is still a thing on the Switch.

May I ask why it is that you're against the Miis' inclusion? Personally, I just want to see Miis use actual Mii abilities, rather than being relegated to custom character skins.

 

[Deleted member]

May I ask why it is that you're against the Miis' inclusion? Personally, I just want to see Miis use actual Mii abilities, rather than being relegated to custom character skins.

Because I find them uninspired and boring, not to mention how much development time they take.
Also, those Mii costumes really shouldn't have cost money. I hate it when cosmetics are locked behind a pay wall.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I hate it when cosmetics are locked behind a pay wall.

Eh?

Most people would say those are the things that should be DLC.

Ah well, opinions I guess.

 

[A Distant Demon]

So yeah.

With Bayo 1+2 and Bayo 3 on Switch, i'm going to go out on a limb and say that is here to stay

 

[Quillion]

Mii's custom moves were all unlocked at the start and were all wildly different.

Not my point. It's that custom moves may be Smash 4's "unique gimmick." And if those go, there's no point to Miis anymore.

 

[Mic_128]

Not my point. It's that custom moves may be Smash 4's "unique gimmick." And if those go, there's no point to Miis anymore.

They could still have Mii Gunner/Fighter/Brawler just with fixed movesets.

 

[ryuu seika]

Why, though? They aren't particularly exciting movesets and they don't reflect the characters.

 

[fogbadge]

Why, though? They aren't particularly exciting movesets and they don't reflect the characters.

well the exciting part is a matter of opinion and the fact that there moves arent different from any of their games is argubly reflective of the fact that they something different in most games they're in

 

[Curious Villager]

The moveset customization feature can be a Mii Fighter exclusive thing in the next Smash if it ends up being too much for the whole roster.
It sort of was that way already with the Mii Fighters having their own customization section whereas everyone else had the other...

 

[Diddy Kong]

They could still have Mii Gunner/Fighter/Brawler just with fixed movesets.

They could also just cut them from the roster completely cause nobody even really wanted them and they are easily the least popular characters in Smash 4, even counting Dark Pit.

 

[Ghirahilda]

Well I think people just don't want some character back because they think:

That this will lead to more development time and they think, due to time contraists, that the characters they desire are't getting in the game because of others characters were developed.

Salty kisses for everyone

 

[fogbadge]

They could also just cut them from the roster completely cause nobody even really wanted them and they are easily the least popular characters in Smash 4, even counting Dark Pit.

i wanted them in smash

 

[Mic_128]

They could also just cut them from the roster completely cause nobody even really wanted them

I never understand this argument because other than the obvious fact that the people defending their inclusion obviously want them, (Looking at you, fogbadge !) people definitely did want them before their announcement. There were a few Mii character threads before they were announced.

 

[ryuu seika]

I wanted actual Miis with actual Mii powers.

 

[Ghirahilda]

I wanted actual Miis with actual Mii powers.

Like Wii Sports, Miitopia, Tomodochi life, Miitomo, Wii Party, Wii Music ?
I think they should still have customization. But representing those games right?

 

[KEYLIME SSB]

I would like to see another
M treatment from the project M devs for Sm4sh

 

[ryuu seika]

Like Wii Sports, Miitopia, Tomodochi life, Miitomo, Wii Party, Wii Music ?
I think they should still have customization. But representing those games right?

Not sure how Wii Music would fit but that kind of thing, yes.

Boxing jab combo, Swordplay F-Smash, Penguin Slide dash attack, Alien Abduction Up B, Pitchfork "Butt Jab" Forward Smash or Side B.

All just examples of what the Mii has to draw from, before we even get into cameo roles like Mario Kart. And no, there's no reason we can't have both this and customisation. It just begs the question of whether we restrict them to gaming specific classes or have one obvious standout class for such a moveset.

 

[Quillion]

I also don't get why people didn't want the Miis.

They're Nintendo icons as much as Kirby or Pikachu at this point, and even if they're ultimately "flavor of the month" characters, look at Lucario, Greninja, or Corrin.

Smash needs its "flavor of the month" characters to stand by its timeless veterans.

 

[Dragoncharystary]

The Miis were the stars of two of Nintendo's best selling games of all time and one of THE best selling games of all time (yes, the only Nintendo game that outsold Super Mario Bros and Pokemon Red and Blue). Wii Sports and Wii Sports Resort are both in the top ten best selling game of all time as of 2017. The Miis are also easily more recognizable than 75 percent of the Smash Bros roster to the average joe on the street. I even bet more people on the street would recognize the Miis than Link or Zelda, albeit barely.

The Miis aren't going anywhere.

 

[AEMehr]

Miis by the design are molded to work with the game they're put in. To me it makes more sense to design Miis as fighters in a fighting game than it is to give them a moveset based on sports/instrument playing/apartment simulators.

Sure, something like that would represent what Miis have done, but Miis do whatever the game needs them to do. They're so open-ended, so they work in practically any scenario. Because of that, them being a custom character is a better design choice than forcing them to follow a specific playstyle. I'd love to another type of Mii Fighter added to the franchise in the future, though I kinda feel the three existing ones round up the general gist of the types of fighting styles displayed in Smash well enough to make adding a unique archetype in comparison difficult.

 

[RouffWestie]

I agree with others that have said. Miis were included appeal to the largest possible audience. They are inoffensive and safe and the average person can recognize them.

Everyone should understand why they're not going anywhere, but it's frustrating that some people can't understand why some fans would be against - or at least very unimpressed - with their inclusion.

The Miis were designed as fighters in the most literal way possible. There was no creative process involved. Nobody put forth the effort of translating source material into an unpredictable and unique moveset. Instead they made some generic moves to fit one of three templates, balanced them, and called it a day. They played it incredibly safe; they didn't try.

 

[Quillion]

Nobody put forth the effort of translating source material into an unpredictable and unique moveset. Instead they made some generic moves to fit one of three templates, balanced them, and called it a day.

Solution: add one more Mii class that DOES take from the Wii series.

 

[AEMehr]

I agree with others that have said. Miis were included appeal to the largest possible audience. They are inoffensive and safe and the average person can recognize them.

Everyone should understand why they're not going anywhere, but it's frustrating that some people can't understand why some fans would be against - or at least very unimpressed - with their inclusion.

The Miis were designed as fighters in the most literal way possible. There was no creative process involved. Nobody put forth the effort of translating source material into an unpredictable and unique moveset. Instead they made some generic moves to fit one of three templates, balanced them, and called it a day. They played it incredibly safe; they didn't try.

Just my opinion, but it takes more effort to create three unique movesets themed around different fighting concepts than it is to create a fighting concept around all the games Miis show up. Especially since they're making three different characters lol.

You don't have to like the way they handled Mii Fighters, but I honestly think it was the smarter way to go about it. It's a novel concept, but some people really like it.

 

[The Smash Nerd II.0.]

Solution: add one more Mii class that DOES take from the Wii series.

My solution is cut all 3 but your idea works too.

 

[Deleted member]

My solution is cut all 3 but your idea works too.

May I ask why you would want this? Besides the inclusion of , I say was a great thing to be added to Smash IV. Let Grandmother Shizuka tell you something: I did not think much about them but some of those DLC outfits looked good that I bought six of them. Among them I have created a each based off myself, a woman 56 years of age.

The others I happily agree with in that Miis ain't going anywhere. But I also have to wonder why they could not introduce them in Brawl since the Wii is where they originated? Had they been present there, that game would be even more enjoyable to me.

Sayonara

 

[Quillion]

My solution is cut all 3 but your idea works too.

The only reason to cut the Miis entirely is if customization goes, but even that's a big IF.

 

[kirbstr]

Honestly, Miis should just get a rework as regular characters and customs should be scrapped. Maybe give and the properties of their custom moves for their defaults then toss the rest of it in the garbage. Smash 5 could be so incredible if half the dev time doesn't go into an alternate version and customs this time.

 

[Mic_128]

Smash 5 could be so incredible if half the dev time doesn't go into an alternate version and customs this time.

I don't think anything close to 'half the dev time' went into adding slightly bigger/faster/smaller/different-%-dealing versions of attacks.

 

[kirbstr]

I don't think anything close to 'half the dev time' went into adding slightly bigger/faster/smaller/different-%-dealing versions of attacks.

Including all the modes associated with customization as well as the split dev time and limitations caused by the 3ds, yea I'd say at least 50% if not more of the work on the game was on customization and the 3ds version of the game.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I vastly wanted the Miis. I didn't expect the specific iteration, or for them to be a Smash-specific character, but I'm happy with it.

If customs go, only Palutena and Mii Fighters should have them. I think customs are good for the game, though. I just wish they were more competitive-friendly.

As for returning vets; there's not many cuts that seems likely. The 3 clones could be cut, but just as easily could stay. Corrin probably won't stay relevant long enough. Roy however might due to being pushed, so him being on the base roster feels somewhat likely(regardless of Lucina coming back or not). Mewtwo is the only Pokemon I could see being cut yet again from the base roster, but the reason doesn't feel likely either(which is how hard he was to make. That's why getting him in Smash 4 took so long. Albeit, he has provingly been low priority, so who knows).

Wolf would be nice to have back, but I he was a semi-clone made last minute, and if there's no relevant game, I can understand him staying gone(unless DLC matches the timing with a game release. If Zero wasn't significantly delayed, he probably would've been DLC in 4). He's much easier to remake/make, than, say, Krystal(as noted by Sakurai), so I don't expect her either. I think Star Fox might stay the same. Pokemon, like Fire Emblem, has a good chance to get a new character, which is also why cuts sometimes happen, to avoid having a huge roster size. That said, beyond Mewtwo, the only Pokemon that could potentially see a cut is Greninja. The rest are heavily safe otherwise for various reasons(mostly extreme vet status, which matters a lot).

Ice Climbers feel obvious unless technical issues happen again. 3rd parties are up in the air bar obviously Sonic and Bayo since Sega are buddy-buddy with Nintendo. I feel all have a great chance to come back from 4. Snake is a "who knows".

 

[Quillion]

I want actually unique customs for everyone. I don't care if they have to cut certain content to do it; customs were such a missed opportunity to represent more iconic moves in its debut.

 

[Blackwolf666]

I want the miis back and hopefully the community will be more accepting of them. I want to use my 1122 and 3322 mii gunners damnit along with my 3233 and 2122 Brawlers. Hopefully Nintendo will come up with an official moveset for switch that I can get into. I don't consider 1111 as official and everything else as just customs... many have tried to convince me otherwise, but never swayed me.

 

[Verde Coeden Scalesworth]

I want the miis back and hopefully the community will be more accepting of them. I want to use my 1122 and 3322 mii gunners damnit along with my 3233 and 2122 Brawlers. Hopefully Nintendo will come up with an official moveset for switch that I can get into. I don't consider 1111 as official and everything else as just customs... many have tried to convince me otherwise, but never swayed me.

They're not "official" setups. There is no real official one. While they are slightly by the fact that the Event Mode treats it as such, however, it also just has "no customs" as the point. Being there's better reasons to ban them on "With Anyone" than customs alone, they didn't think banning them during Event Mode was needed. They're already unplayable in another mode(Smash Party, although I think that's the wrong name, but eh) for understandable reasons.

Imo, I think they're fine as is, with maybe balance issues at best. Having unique customs but other options is what they are. I wouldn't mind a separately playable type of Mii based upon the regular games, instead of the Mii Fighter, but that's something that wouldn't work well for other reasons. The point of the Mii is to create your own character, and when it comes to Smash, they don't exactly have a blatant moveset to draw from because they're pretty much everywhere. It's just an odd mishmash. The Class system works far better. Maybe a 4th moveset(focusing on sports) could work better, though. I mean, they were in sports games a lot, so it's justified.

 

[Spazzy_D]

What if Roy had something like this as his Up B?

Less upward recovery but a good amount of vertical and excellent combat use, fitting in with his "explosive" theming. Making him more of an all or nothing character and more different from Marth.

I mean, Roy's recovery is already sufficiently different from Marth since it hits in a different way and you can angle it.

If anything I would say his double-edge dance is his one special that could be updated.

 

[Quillion]

The only move Roy needs is to add a fiery sword beam to his Neutral B. Otherwise, he represents the Roy of Binding Blade very well.

 

[FunAtParties]

Your job is to change one move on a vet that will piss off as many people as possible, but it has to "make sense". What move is it?

My vote goes to Falcon Punch > canon pistol

 

[ryuu seika]

Inhale -> that Jumping Inhale custom.

Nothing would be more infuriating than an actually viable swallowcide.

 

[Al-kīmiyā']

Scrap Miis and replace them with the ability to make a character with any properties/moves one desires. Combined with downloadable skins, people can try to make characters that won't have gotten in.

 

[Rosalinatehplumber]

I don't know what to except out of the veterans. Especially when most people thought Ike wasn't coming back and the IC would. Speculation is only opinions and theories. But, it is fun to predict what would happen not to mention making new friends. I do hope most of them to return. But unfortunately, some will probably be on the chopping block due to time constraints, rights issues or priority issues (hopefully only a few like 3-5). Now this may sound weird, but whoever is going to be in it will meant to be playable.

 

[Megadoomer]

Scrap Miis and replace them with the ability to make a character with any properties/moves one desires. Combined with downloadable skins, people can try to make characters that won't have gotten in.

I feel like things could go horribly wrong with that idea. I could easily see people abusing that kind of a system and min/maxing to make characters that are far more overpowered than Brawl!Meta Knight or pre-patch!Bayonetta.