Very frustrated with the lack of female versions of The Hero

[Kuon]

So- I'm not female, and I am honestly surpsrised to read all of the responses here. I will chalk it up in part to male privilege.

But I am curious-- how much of an important role do the females actually play in these dragon quest games? I am working to be as nonbias as possible- but if the goal was to get as many heroes from different games in as possible, would it have made sense to have three guys and one gal? Or two and two?

I am working from a base probability that only four models could be created. This seems both pragmatic and likely with development time, to me. If we only had four models from four games (to maximize the variety of DQ games given), would it have made sense to have a female over the male (as far as how DQ works, as I don't know the games).

(Side note. If only Fire Emblem had been given this treatment. Maybe we would only have four FE characters).

Yeah, I think maybe they should've taken out one of the male characters and put in a female like female Erdrick. Then again, I don't think it would've taken much more time to program female Erdrick as male Erdrick's alt, but I don't really know since I'm not a programmer at Sora Limited or Bandai Namco

 

[pupNapoleon]

Yeah, I think maybe they should've taken out one of the male characters and put in a female like female Erdrick. Then again, I don't think it would've taken much more time to program female Erdrick as male Erdrick's alt, but I don't really know since I'm not a programmer at Sora Limited or Bandai Namco

Again- I'm not a female nor a DQ player- but does what you said make sense? The perception I'm given is that Erdrick ist he most famous DQ character, and that he is famous as a male and not female. (Maybe another of the alt characters could have been female alt, but I wonder if it runs into the same comment I just made).

 

[Deleted member]

So- I'm not female, and I am honestly surpsrised to read all of the responses here. I will chalk it up in part to male privilege.

But I am curious-- how much of an important role do the females actually play in these dragon quest games? I am working to be as nonbias as possible- but if the goal was to get as many heroes from different games in as possible, would it have made sense to have three guys and one gal? Or two and two?

I am working from a base probability that only four models could be created. This seems both pragmatic and likely with development time, to me. If we only had four models from four games (to maximize the variety of DQ games given), would it have made sense to have a female over the male (as far as how DQ works, as I don't know the games).

(Side note. If only Fire Emblem had been given this treatment. Maybe we would only have four FE characters).

The characters in question are simply alternate versions of two of the playable heroes, at the start of DQ3 and DQ4 you can choose the hero's gender. Like Pokemon, and other RPGs. I am kinda surprised they weren't part of the package, but I would also be surprised if it wasn't even considered since other characters in the game also have both male and female versions playable.

 

[Blackwolf666]

When looking at the pallet swaps I thought the same thing... well not really frustrated just a little disappointed. They could have decided to give the Luminary and the Guv alternate colors while giving Erdrick and (the DQ4 protag) gender swaps. I most likely wouldn't have used them anyway since I'd be playing as the DQ8 protag but still.

 

[Shaya]

If you're a big fan of the DQ series, which "Hero" is meant to represent, it would seem "off" that you care most about 2 of 11(+?) main characters in the series? To be devil's advocate-y here.
If you predominantly cared only for the DQ games with female protagonist variety, then the lack of that being represented is understandable.

Although nothing much can be said that would be of real consolation, the cultural / majority fan preference is likely what's happened here. Dragon Quest is apparently a major fan favourite in Japan compared to the West, and marketing wise they chose to make the flagship representation be DQ XI; and I've heard a lot about "Eldrick" from III, what are the other two versions popularity factor? Gender/identity are less at the front of social and cultural thought/progression in many countries still, and Japan is an oft described as being "behind", it shouldn't be a free pass or anything but is probably the factor here.

If you're not particularly a fan of DQ games but have a misandrist policy on what you play; that's a shame - while aesthetics is important to the characters I play, a lot of my continually played characters are those foremost that I enjoy the gameplay of, and usually come to love the rest of them incidentally (Marth, ZSS in a nutshell - and my other beautiful brothers, sisters and children). If you end up playing the character and like how they play, I'd hope their physical appearance or identity would be of reduced priority! (just like you'd tend to/are expected of towards people~).
But like,anyone doing their own thing is fine, I don't think you need to justify yourself to others over this preference too much - countless competitive players (including top level) over the years have made it known they will basically only play female characters or prefer them, so you're in good company.

I've barely played through a dragon quest before and know all too well how virulent slime memes/culture is. Personally was most excited to have a "Toriyama" designed character in Smash, haha. "I GET TO PLAY GOHAN / PRETEND IM A DIFFERENT COLORED GREAT SAIYAMAN YEEES"

I think having your voices heard on this is valid; it mightn't change now but if the developer's are given more context to help them empathise with those upset, it might make way in the future.

 

[Idon]

Honestly, if they had the resources to make 2 more models in the form of female alterations, I would prefer those resources be put into making models of other Dragon Quest protagonists rather than female versions of games already represented, but that's just me.

 

[Kuon]

If you're a big fan of the DQ series, which "Hero" is meant to represent, it would seem "off" that you care most about 2 of 11(+?) main characters in the series? To be devil's advocate-y here.
If you predominantly cared only for the DQ games with female protagonist variety, then the lack of that being represented is understandable.

Although nothing much can be said that would be of real consolation, the cultural / majority fan preference is likely what's happened here. Dragon Quest is apparently a major fan favourite in Japan compared to the West, and marketing wise they chose to make the flagship representation be DQ XI; and I've heard a lot about "Eldrick" from III, what are the other two versions popularity factor? Gender/identity are less at the front of social and cultural thought/progression in many countries still, and Japan is an oft described as being "behind", it shouldn't be a free pass or anything but could be the factor here.

If you're not particularly a fan of DQ games but have a misandrist policy on what you play; that's a shame - while aesthetics is important to the characters I play, a lot of my continually played characters are those foremost that I enjoy the gameplay of, and usually come to love the rest of them incidentally (Marth, ZSS in a nutshell - and my other beautiful brothers, sisters and children). If you end up playing the character and like how they play, I'd hope their physical appearance or identity would be of reduced priority! (just like you'd tend to/are expected of towards people~).
But like,anyone doing their own thing is fine, I don't think you need to justify yourself to others over this preference too much - countless competitive players (including top level) over the years have made it known they will basically only play female characters or prefer them, so you're in good company.

I've barely played through a dragon quest before and know all too well how virulent slime memes/culture is. Personally was most excited to have a "Toriyama" designed character in Smash, haha. "I GET TO PLAY GOHAN / PRETEND IM A DIFFERENT COLORED GREAT SAIYAMAN YEEES"

But what confuses me is that Dragon Quest is huge in Japan, and it's no surprise that Japan loves their waifus. So... why would they not have at least one female alt?

 

[Shaya]

But what confuses me is that Dragon Quest is huge in Japan, and it's no surprise that Japan loves their waifus. So... why would they not have at least one female alt?

They also generally, if not more so, have a really big love/thing over "generic male haram anime protagonists".

(This post is made in jest, generally).

 

[Arcadenik]

When looking at the pallet swaps I thought the same thing... well not really frustrated just a little disappointed. They could have decided to give the Luminary and the Guv alternate colors while giving Erdrick and (the DQ4 protag) gender swaps. I most likely wouldn't have used them anyway since I'd be playing as the DQ8 protag but still.

Both DQ11 and DQ8 Heroes don’t have female versions. If they wanted four males and four females for consistency like they did with Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Corrin, Inkling, and Pokemon Trainer, they would have gone with DQ9 and DQ10 Heroes instead of DQ11 and DQ8 Heroes.

But instead they went with the most popular DQ Heroes (all 3 are 15+ years old and two of them are from the NES era) plus the newest one (who turns out to be the default Hero to promote DQ11 Switch).

They most likely did this to appeal both Japanese fans and the few American fans who bothered to play the NES, DS, and 3DS (and PS2 and PS4) games.

And so now we have a different type of consistency... instead of four males and four females, each Hero comes with a recolor that’s based on a Hero that didn’t make the cut.

DQ11 Hero recolor is based on DQ10 Hero. (Wii and Wii U)
DQ3 Hero recolor is based on DQ5 Hero. (SNES and DS)
DQ4 Hero recolor is based on DQ1 Hero (NES)
DQ8 Hero recolor is based on DQ2 Hero (NES)

 

[Blackwolf666]

Both DQ11 and DQ8 Heroes don’t have female versions. If they wanted four males and four females for consistency like they did with Villager, Wii Fit Trainer, Robin, Corrin, Inkling, and Pokemon Trainer, they would have gone with DQ9 and DQ10 Heroes instead of DQ11 and DQ8 Heroes.

But instead they went with the most popular DQ Heroes (all 3 are 15+ years old and two of them are from the NES era) plus the newest one (who turns out to be the default Hero to promote DQ11 Switch).

They most likely did this to appeal both Japanese fans and the few American fans who bothered to play the NES, DS, and 3DS (and PS2 and PS4) games.

And so now we have a different type of consistency... instead of four males and four females, each Hero comes with a recolor that’s based on a Hero that didn’t make the cut.

DQ11 Hero recolor is based on DQ10 Hero. (Wii and Wii U)
DQ3 Hero recolor is based on DQ5 Hero. (SNES and DS)
DQ4 Hero recolor is based on DQ1 Hero (NES)
DQ8 Hero recolor is based on DQ2 Hero (NES)

I never said DQ11 and DQ8 heroes had female versions and don't really feel like they need to keep the genders equal for this. Just go with the most popular heroes and since 2 of them have gender swaps include those at the cost of a couple pallet swaps for DQ3 and DQ4.

edit: accidently said characters instead of versions

 

[Arcadenik]

at the cost of a couple pallet swaps for DQ3 and DQ4.

Umm... no thanks.

I’m more concerned with fan service, not affirmative action, and that’s precisely what Smash just delivered.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Umm... no thanks.

I’m more concerned with fan service, not affirmative action, and that’s precisely what Smash just delivered.

How's that not fan service?

 

[Arcadenik]

How's that not fan service?

Cutting Erdrick’s DQ5 recolor just to have an Erdrick with boobs?

DQ5 recolor vs Boobs? I’m going with DQ5 recolor.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Cutting Erdrick’s DQ5 recolor just to have an Erdrick with boobs?

DQ5 recolor vs Boobs? I’m going with DQ5 recolor.

and... fans can't like having female counterparts to characters that have female counterparts within their own games in smash because? I mean either way its servicing fans of Dragon Quest. You're making it sound like people just wanted them to go that route to either have another pair of breast to look at or some SJW nonsense.

 

[Deleted member]

A bit disappointed, I feel that current representation is great but with the female alts you could also represent some cool entries like IX and X in addition to Sofia and Femdrick.

Honestly I feel a female echo would be great as you have a bit more leeway with the model as the bodies of male and female heroes are not really similar (Solo is relatively more muscular than Sofia for example and she would look quite muscular if she was an alt instead of him and female Erdrick is shorter in the artwork).

 

[Arcadenik]

and... fans can't like having female counterparts to characters that have female counterparts within their own games in smash because? I mean either way its servicing fans of Dragon Quest. You're making it sound like people just wanted them to go that route to either have another pair of breast to look at or some SJW nonsense.

Dragon Quest fans, not feminists and certainly not SJWs, are the target audience.

If there were female versions in the game, I’d accept that. But since there are none and we got recolors instead (and I accepted that), now we have people here saying female versions should have gotten in the game for the “women players” or to have more “female representation”. If that ain’t “SJW nonsense” I don’t know what is.

Maybe Sakurai, Nintendo, and Square Enix felt that recolors would appeal more Dragon Quest fans than female versions (who were only in four games)... since they would be representing the same games twice whereas the recolors would be representing the DQ games that didn’t get the playable Heroes.

And really, the Dragon Quest Heroes are like Disney Princesses to me. The promotion materials tend to put all the male Heroes together for group pictures. It makes sense for Smash to follow suit and that was made clear with the Hero’s Final Smash.

 

[Klimax]

With these swap, they can represent more game of the franchise. This is why they went for it. If having female dragon quest characters was a better solution to represent the franchise, they would have done it.

 

[SSBCandidates]

I do feel sad we are not getting the heroine from DQ3 and pretend she is Videl. I imagined there would not be any trouble and be a case like the Wii Fit Trainers, as they have different body types but same stats. Or as the Robins and Corrins.

An idea I had for Simon, was that instead of colors, we would have 8 different Belmonts as skins so we could have various whip welding Belomonts and have Trevor playable, as well as Sonia Belmont; who I love, believe is a great female character who sadly got shafted by IGA. That idea went to Bowser Jr and the Kopalings

And now we have Simon and Richter but as semi-separate entities, being Richter Simon´s echo; and having 7 echos of Simon would had been too much.

Well, I did not get Sonia; but love playing with the CV guys. And I would also love to have great female characters in Smash (doubt Chun-Li will ever be playable, but wish it was as she was a vital part in the presence of female video game characters), but I do not feel it is a reason to give up on Smash Brothers and the characters representing your favorite series.

To date, I do not like the design Mega Man has in Smash Bros, but that does not stop me from enjoying the character. And the Star Fox characters have their designs based on Zero which most people hate, but does not stop them in playing with them.

And will get flames, as I am really sick and tired of the current PC/SJW era we live in as it is actually limiting creativity world wide; in the name of tolerance, love and peace; only that these ones are forced whatever the means.

All I want is good games and characters.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Dragon Quest fans, not feminists and certainly not SJWs, are the target audience.

If there were female versions in the game, I’d accept that. But since there are none and we got recolors instead (and I accepted that), now we have people here saying female versions should have gotten in the game for the “women players” or to have more “female representation”. If that ain’t “SJW nonsense” I don’t know what is.

Maybe Sakurai, Nintendo, and Square Enix felt that recolors would appeal more Dragon Quest fans than female versions (who were only in four games)... since they would be representing the same games twice whereas the recolors would be representing the DQ games that didn’t get the playable Heroes.

And really, the Dragon Quest Heroes are like Disney Princesses to me. The promotion materials tend to put all the male Heroes together for group pictures. It makes sense for Smash to follow suit and that was made clear with the Hero’s Final Smash.

First I should say (if I didn't make it clear before) I'm not taking the stance I am to spread any type of deeper message or anything to do with sticking up for anyone. Now I'll admit I haven't really read any of the other replies here so I didn't know what was said earlier. However, their words aren't mine.


I just simply would have enjoyed the female models to fully represent dq4 and dq3 protags more than pallet swaps to sort of represent another hero. It might be because I never really cared too much about color swaps that represent X character's series... most of the time I'm basically like "that's cool, I guess." with a few exceptions that get me hyped like Fierce Deity for Link. In my eyes I see the final smash, moveset and the stage as enough. However, I've accepted that it didn't go that route.

 

[KatKit]

There's no doubt that it was a huge missed opportunity; I'll use the character regardless, but it is a glaring omission. At the very least, there's a lot of effort put into the characters who are in the game. There's also always the possibility of additional skins/costumes in a future update.

Hopefully, this is an isolated incident; I fear that there are a lot of viable female DLC characters that may be overlooked because they may think they aren't as marketable or some nonsense.

And really, the Dragon Quest Heroes are like Disney Princesses to me. The promotion materials tend to put all the male Heroes together for group pictures. It makes sense for Smash to follow suit and that was made clear with the Hero’s Final Smash.

Bird Studio (Akira Toriyama, an artist whose work is predominantly aimed at a young male target-demographic) has control of which characters are shown in promotional material; it's no surprise that they tend to show off the male protagonists (see: the Dragonball series for how the few female characters are sidelined/stereotyped depicted).

 

[YoshiandToad]

Maybe next Smash game appearance, Pokémon Trainer style...

 

[S-bow64]

Eight recolor is based on DQ2 hero ? I thought that was Terry haha, especially since the Luminary alt looks like Angelo.

I'm a little disappointed for the lack of female counterpart for 3 and 4 sure but I don't really care that much tbh.

 

[RPK]

Cheers to hoping they get an echo Heroine. Skins being the Heroines from DQIII, DQIV, DQIX, and DQX with alternate colors for each.

 

[Oddball]

I could see them splitting into male/female alts if it was JUST Erdrick as the playable character.

Having multiple playable characters and one or two of them having multiple genders (but not all of them) seems weirdly imbalanced, especially if Smash is just trying to keep it to eight alts per character. You'd be left with two of the characters having alternate colors and the other two having the same colors but different genders.

 

[Deleted member]

It would have been cool if they pulled a Smash 4 Little Mac regarding alts, ngl.

And while I want to celebrate that Eight, one of my two most wanted picks since years, is finally in with all the things he had against... I do feel bad for the people who couldn’t get their favourite heroes or heroines in.

I don’t enjoy seeing people I love to talk with sad or down, even if I find the reasons fair.

 

[OnyanRings]

I thought i was going to be more upset, but im just happy that DQ is finally represented in smash.

Though the female representation in this dlc pass is severly lacking... Really hoping for Jill now.

 

[Deleted member]

I thought i was going to be more upset, but im just happy that DQ is finally represented in smash.

Though the female representation in this dlc pass is severly lacking... Really hoping for Jill now.

Jill Valentine, Mach Rider or Adeleine would be my dream choices regarding that.
I owe MvC2 and staindgrey my support for Jill.

 

[PsySmasher]

Yeah, I get why some people are upset by the lack of female alts. And that's completely justified.

But I also get why they went with color alts of the other DQ Heroes instead, so I'm not super upset.

Either way, this doesn't really change my opinion on Hero (since I was iffy on them to begin with).

Plus we got 2 more characters to go, so there's a chance there's a female character for DLC.

 

[Deleted member]

But yeah... Jill Valentine would be my personal pick for a RE rep over anyone else.

 

[zferolie]

Echo Fighter Pass:
Dixie Kong
Heroine with (Sofia, Female Erdrick, Ann Lucia, Female Celestrian and recolors of each)
Impa
Octoling
Medusa

There, solves our female representation and gives us a lot of lower effort characters in a way that the rest of the fanbase can't complain about them because they're echoes. Also gives our last Rare/DK character and a female villain.

I could see that or replace dixie kong with Ms Pac Man, as Dixie could also be more of a semi clone or luigi style to diddy.

Honestly it is sad we didnt see a female version of the hero, i can see why they maybe did it, as just giving 1 female carient could be odd... but they did it with Wendy koopa... i say replace the alt colors, give us female erdrick, female dq9 lead, female of 5 character, and then maybe also dq1 hero who is only in the final smash. Or replace female 5 with another hero, only having female dq9 lead and female erdrick.

Maybe they can still do it, maybe we will get a surprise echo announcement when they show off more of the hero, called the Heroine. But not getting my hopes too up.

 

[Penguinbowler]

My guess is because only the DQ3 and DQ4 Heroes have female counterparts. 11 and 8 don't, that or they just didn't want to make any more unique models.

 

[Deleted member]

I wouldn’t lose hope on echo fighters yet.

If Kasumi from Persona, a character who I would also like, became a separate DLC echo fighter, I feel that the possibility of having an echo fighter for most DLC picks would be pretty possible.

 

[Folt]

I never said DQ11 and DQ8 heroes had female versions and don't really feel like they need to keep the genders equal for this. Just go with the most popular heroes and since 2 of them have gender swaps include those at the cost of a couple pallet swaps for DQ3 and DQ4.

edit: accidently said characters instead of versions

Problem is, those heroes who have possible female alts would also give up palette swaps referencing the original DQ hero and the (given what I've heard elsewhere) also rather popular DQ5 Hero, which I think is a thing they might have wanted to avoid.

As for why specifically those two heroes are the ones with palette swaps referencing the other DQ heroes, i think it has something to do with their designs compared to the other two.

 

[Deleted member]

Ngl, I would probably feel like the people here if Coco Bandicoot wasn't one of Crash's alts if he got in.

Having a chance to get characters we love as alts if possible is always cool for many, more so if they seem highly likely for one.

I can understand the dissapointment of not getting some of our favourite heroes as part of the alts.

 

[Blackwolf666]

Problem is, those heroes who have possible female alts would also give up palette swaps referencing the original DQ hero and the (given what I've heard elsewhere) also rather popular DQ5 Hero, which I think is a thing they might have wanted to avoid.

As for why specifically those two heroes are the ones with palette swaps referencing the other DQ heroes, i think it has something to do with their designs compared to the other two.

Depends on what someone would want to see more. I prefer alternate skins over simple pallet swaps to kind of represent another character... you don’t and that’s fine.

 

[shinhed-echi]

I don’t know about you guys, but for me Hero has crushed it when it comes to color swaps.

Who else has 3 different character alts, and a palette swap referencing yet another hero for each one!?

The only way to top this is for another character to be included who sports 7 different characters for alt costumes. (Ok, you could say we’re 2nd place to Bowser Jr. only).

 

[Deleted member]

I don’t know about you guys, but for me Hero has crushed it when it comes to color swaps.

Who else has 3 different character alts, and a palette swap referencing yet another hero for each one!?

The only way to top this is for another character to be included who sports 7 different characters for alt costumes. (Ok, you could say we’re 2nd place to Bowser Jr. only).

You need to understand that some people were hoping to see some of their favourite heroes or heroines as alts too.

The dissapointment is reasonable.

 

[Folt]

Depends on what someone would want to see more. I prefer alternate skins over simple pallet swaps to kind of represent another character... you don’t and that’s fine.

Maybe, but palette swaps is one way to reference other popular/iconic characters from other DQ games who otherwise does not have a shot.

Or, as is in this case, the DQ1 Hero, DQ5 Hero, Terry from DQ6, and Angelo from DQ8. All are fairly popular and/or iconic in the DQ series but lack certain aspects that make them unsuitable as actual alts for the Hero's moveset.

 

[Manonymous]

Can we just get at least one female for this DLC?

Well technically, isn't Kazooie a female ?

 

[shinhed-echi]

You need to understand that some people were hoping to see some of their favourite heroes or heroines as alts too.

The dissapointment is reasonable.

I’ll be honest here. I messed up a little here.

I do understand the frustration.

I intended to post this in the Social thread, as an innocent observation in comparison to the rest of the roster.

I have no idea how I ended up here, since I’ve been trying to avoid this thread.
Because I posted it here, upon reading it again, I realize how out of touch what I wrote might seem, trust me, I didn’t mean to sound like I’m belittleing the issue (word?).

I too would have preferred 4 female alts as opposed to 4 color swaps any day of the week.

I apologize. I feel so embarrassed now. :s