Ademisk
Smash Champion
Simna's our moderator. It's really all his fault.
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Using Up B in the air as an offensive move.
- Thread starter MattDotZeb
- Start date
As one of the foremost critics and proponents of upB use I would definitely not close this topic.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
The worst part is that this thread actually works for him....
Levitas
the moon
Well, nobody else toys with trolls better than simna, after all.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
No I mean using PK Thunder as an offensive move.
kenny10
Smash Journeyman
Yeah after what we've seen with Burntsocks. PKT could do 30% damage though if you tailwhip them enough times then blast yourself.
Fuzzy Guts
Smash Cadet
That isn't even nice.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
It's true though.
MattDotZeb
Smash Hero
So, this topic, technically is useful for Ness.
I want a video of someone doing this, now.
I want a video of someone doing this, now.
Levitas
the moon
come on, just believe it. I totally was screwing around with it yesterday. Seems people don't expect the shortened grounded ones. And I totally nailed someone with the pk suprise yesterday too.
GildedPunch
Smash Ace
LOL@ Simna's well thought out pk thunder names.
im afraid nessbounder came up with that one^_^
GildedPunch
Smash Ace
oh.....
^_^
^_^
Ademisk
Smash Champion
http://youtube.com/watch?v=yhMdxMoGWes
+
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qQfvhu0PaaA
wait...those videos are both under your youtube account...>_> Odd.
+
http://youtube.com/watch?v=qQfvhu0PaaA
wait...those videos are both under your youtube account...>_> Odd.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
I could've sworn Simna had some videos of him doing neato PK Thunder stuff, but I couldn't find it.
GildedPunch
Smash Ace
wwhoah it's sleepyk!
whom i've never played cuz my mother doesn't let me go to smashfests and the tourneys are too far!
wassup?
whom i've never played cuz my mother doesn't let me go to smashfests and the tourneys are too far!
wassup?
MattDotZeb
Smash Hero
This topic needs more topicing.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
Uhm. Zap people. It hurts them.
ive found that a really simple way to use the up b offensively is when youre recovering with low damage
you havent been thrown far enough to have to specifically rely on the up b, meaning you can use your double jump to get high above the stage and lure your opponent to you
angle the attack downward and you should be set
i can take down sikass's marth with relative ease this way. he HATES it
you havent been thrown far enough to have to specifically rely on the up b, meaning you can use your double jump to get high above the stage and lure your opponent to you
angle the attack downward and you should be set
i can take down sikass's marth with relative ease this way. he HATES it
turtlecake
Smash Journeyman
I bet he also hates yellow coconuts...
Ademisk
Smash Champion
Yes, that also works. It's sometimes the only way to recover from above. People get used to it eventually though, and learn to just space away from you.
Levitas
the moon
lol, or sweetspot from above. People don't expect it, they think you're gonna attack from above, or shoot up or something. And then you're on the edge. and they're like, "woah"
Ademisk
Smash Champion
Yeah, same difference.
Also, edgeguarding with PKT2. Am I insane or is this just crazy enough to work? In other words, purposefully jumping off the stage as if you were going to edgeguard an enemy, and then doing a PKT2 into the enemy's Up B trajectory. Anyone have a good reason this wouldn't work?
GildedPunch
Smash Ace
mindgames.
i do it all the time.
well not all the time, but when i have a chance.
BUT i have done it many times before!
i do it all the time.
well not all the time, but when i have a chance.
BUT i have done it many times before!
Ademisk
Smash Champion
It seems like it should work. I mean, it's the same basic principle as Simna's PK Thunder right on the ledge, where he whips it around the enemy and hits himself at the same time as they hit the ledge, only from a different angle.
upB out of shield could work since it has more range than ness' grab... but I don't see it being as practical in the air.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
It's better if you DjC PK Thunder. You can increase your distance from the opponent, or decrease the amount of time it takes you to hit yourself.
thesage
Smash Hero
Sometimes when somebody approaches me I randomly pull out pkt... It doesn't work that often, but when it does.... awesome.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
.......people confuse random crap working with mindgames WAAAY too much.
So what, nobody has any serious they can find wrong with my idea? I've used it like twice now and it worked the first time, and had no consequences the second.
So what, nobody has any serious they can find wrong with my idea? I've used it like twice now and it worked the first time, and had no consequences the second.
Levitas
the moon
What characters have you done this against? Characters like Marth and shiek are best edgeguarded other ways, the spacies move as fast as you in the air with shorter startup times, Peach Jiggs and samus are like, " we don't care because we can stay in the air forever", so that leaves some mid tier and lower that it may apply to if they are forced into a strict recovery pattern. Meaning that you could easily edgeguard them another way.
So what advantages does the pkt2 edgeguard have over anyone/anything?
So what advantages does the pkt2 edgeguard have over anyone/anything?
thesage
Smash Hero
Well... it has a lot of knockback...
...
...
...
Yeah it's mostly useless, but it looks smexy.
...
...
...
Yeah it's mostly useless, but it looks smexy.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
Fox and Falco, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, Luigi if he's already used his second jump(unlikely), pretty much anyone with a predictable trajectory of recovery. I've used it on Fox twice so far, like I said, worked the first time, like a charm. Guy had no idea what I was doing, tried to avoid me, and got punished for it.
There is no one perfect edgeguard. The best edgeguard is always the one that enemy doesn't see coming. But considering that we can't read our opponent's minds, we have to go for the edgeguard that is most likely to succeed based on circumstance and position. This is just another option, and I'm trying to ask if there are any LARGE flaws in the strategy.
It has high knockback, a large range of attack, and it's in a position where the enemy has a limited ability to attack and is infinitely more interested in making sure they survive. If you PK Thunder near the enemy, you also have a high chance of hitting them with a tailwhip(which I actually just discovered while testing this attack today) which lowers their recovery position, throws them slightly off, and keeps them even FURTHER from hitting you while you attempt to PKT2 them.
In addition, you can use Ness's second jump offstage to create even better situations for edgeguarding. For example if you double jump in the same direction that you PK Thunder(using PKT at the same instant as you double jump) then the PKT will start closer to your body, and you'll be able to PKT2 quicker. And if you double jump in the opposite direction that you PKT, then you'll be farther away from it, and unless you're suicidal, farther away from your opponent, which could throw off their estimate of your attack. Think of it as increasing your range, and the ease at which you can decide Ness's direction with the PKT.
There is no one perfect edgeguard. The best edgeguard is always the one that enemy doesn't see coming. But considering that we can't read our opponent's minds, we have to go for the edgeguard that is most likely to succeed based on circumstance and position. This is just another option, and I'm trying to ask if there are any LARGE flaws in the strategy.
It has high knockback, a large range of attack, and it's in a position where the enemy has a limited ability to attack and is infinitely more interested in making sure they survive. If you PK Thunder near the enemy, you also have a high chance of hitting them with a tailwhip(which I actually just discovered while testing this attack today) which lowers their recovery position, throws them slightly off, and keeps them even FURTHER from hitting you while you attempt to PKT2 them.
In addition, you can use Ness's second jump offstage to create even better situations for edgeguarding. For example if you double jump in the same direction that you PK Thunder(using PKT at the same instant as you double jump) then the PKT will start closer to your body, and you'll be able to PKT2 quicker. And if you double jump in the opposite direction that you PKT, then you'll be farther away from it, and unless you're suicidal, farther away from your opponent, which could throw off their estimate of your attack. Think of it as increasing your range, and the ease at which you can decide Ness's direction with the PKT.
Levitas
the moon
careful, spacies can get to the bolt before you by illusioning if you use the up b first, and to be more safe, you should probably use the PKT2 where you circle it between you and the stage.
That said, I'm gonna try it the next time I can.
Note: when a Ness is off the stage, and uses PKT, it has a magnetic effect on opponents. The seem drawn to it, like a moth to the flame. Oh yeah, and if they get there, it assists their recovery AND kills you. Meaning careful is the key word for trying this.
That said, I'm gonna try it the next time I can.
Note: when a Ness is off the stage, and uses PKT, it has a magnetic effect on opponents. The seem drawn to it, like a moth to the flame. Oh yeah, and if they get there, it assists their recovery AND kills you. Meaning careful is the key word for trying this.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
Right, like I said, it's situational. I wouldn't use it on a Spacie I think is going to illusion. I'd just sit back and bat.
I think the strength of this edgeguard is its total range. First off you have a line from yourself to the edge, and if the enemy recovers into that line, they get hit with a huge knockback. Next, although it requires a good bit better timing and is risking, it's also an edgehog technically. Which means if the enemy tries to sweetspot and this edgeguard's first hit fails to hit them, they;re still screwed. And, again with great timing, if they DO go for the stage over the sweetspot, the move has the advantage over an edgehog, since the part just before it hits the stage could potentially hit them even if they miss the sweetspot. So it just has a huge potential for hitting the enemy, if timed right.
I think the strength of this edgeguard is its total range. First off you have a line from yourself to the edge, and if the enemy recovers into that line, they get hit with a huge knockback. Next, although it requires a good bit better timing and is risking, it's also an edgehog technically. Which means if the enemy tries to sweetspot and this edgeguard's first hit fails to hit them, they;re still screwed. And, again with great timing, if they DO go for the stage over the sweetspot, the move has the advantage over an edgehog, since the part just before it hits the stage could potentially hit them even if they miss the sweetspot. So it just has a huge potential for hitting the enemy, if timed right.
turtlecake
Smash Journeyman
Spacies are dirty with that shining and what-not...
Ademisk
Smash Champion
I did not post twice.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
I did not post 3 times.
Ademisk
Smash Champion
All spacies are gay and need to be taken down a peg.
"Oh, look at me, I play Fox, shine shine shine. Oh look, now I'm winning tournaments, lolz, shine shine shine. Ohmigod, that Ness won't stop uairing me, fail fail fail." X_x
"Oh, look at me, I play Fox, shine shine shine. Oh look, now I'm winning tournaments, lolz, shine shine shine. Ohmigod, that Ness won't stop uairing me, fail fail fail." X_x