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**Update G&W** Second Characters to Counterpick with for Kirby Mainers Game & Watch
- Thread starter ~Gonzo~
- Start date
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
lol sorry storm i've just been talkin to Twilight about it for a little bit. Its in sykesville, Maryland. The biggest East Coast tourney there is. Probably one of the biggest tourneys out there right now. DSF went as did PC Chris u could talk to him about it a little. Also its a sticky on the tourney listings page
Haha no it's cool, I haven't been to any big tourneys so I don't blame you.
The best person I've played would be Azen, but that was over Wi-Fi.
So yeah.
When is it?
Too lazy to look for the tourney page.
I'm going to the east coast for a week on Sunday, but I won't have a car or anything while I'm there.
The best person I've played would be Azen, but that was over Wi-Fi.
So yeah.
When is it?
Too lazy to look for the tourney page.
I'm going to the east coast for a week on Sunday, but I won't have a car or anything while I'm there.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
i believe its Sept 7-8, its a two day event
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
Here is the Link for Critical Hit 4 there is a 5000 dollar gauranteed Pot. Serious cash tourney
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180762
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=180762
Deg222
Smash Journeyman
Personally against Snake I'll use DDD, the only disadvantage DDD has is that he's a big target. DDD usually has to watch out for Snake's boost smash, that missle will hit you if you get hit by the first part of the attack.
Against Marth, I usually just stick with Kirby, all you have to do is be patient. Don't do laggy attacks because you'll get punished but if I had to choose a character to counter Marth, it would definitely be ZSS. Not only can you outspace Marth's forward air spam with your forward B but also your down smash. Just watch out and don't get tipped, ZSS is almost as light as Kirby and can die at about the same percentage.
Against Marth, I usually just stick with Kirby, all you have to do is be patient. Don't do laggy attacks because you'll get punished but if I had to choose a character to counter Marth, it would definitely be ZSS. Not only can you outspace Marth's forward air spam with your forward B but also your down smash. Just watch out and don't get tipped, ZSS is almost as light as Kirby and can die at about the same percentage.
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
In my area there are a lot of veerrrryyyy good marth players. Also ROB. Snake too but for some reason I don't have issues with him.
I AM SO ASHAMED for the first time ever I lost to a snake last tourney =/ /emo
Anyways I need to start working on playing the way I play when I'm on my last stock for EVERY stock lol.
And gonzo how am I supposed to pay for a plane ticket? o.o
I AM SO ASHAMED for the first time ever I lost to a snake last tourney =/ /emo
Anyways I need to start working on playing the way I play when I'm on my last stock for EVERY stock lol.
And gonzo how am I supposed to pay for a plane ticket? o.o
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
u can get a bus for pretty cheap i'm sure, next tourney u c dsf at ask him how he's getting here
and seriously twilight get some Kirby vs Snake Vids up if ur that good, i need to c that ****
and seriously twilight get some Kirby vs Snake Vids up if ur that good, i need to c that ****
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
lol well the reason is that theres a lot of random people that play snake o.o and also I practice against a good snake every week. So I would get to know the spacing extremely well. Also I would get used to how I can punish and when it was safe etc. But I haven't been practicing with him for awhile and thats prolly why I lost to one =/ I got impatient gah o.o
The marth I lost to at that tourney also had kirby as a secondary lol o.o hmm he banned rainbow cruise whats another good stage against marth?
The marth I lost to at that tourney also had kirby as a secondary lol o.o hmm he banned rainbow cruise whats another good stage against marth?
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
Hanenbow (elektroplankton), Frigate Orpheon. If ur smarter than ur opponent u can counter at FD and just outplay them,
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
hanenbow is baned usually in westcoast but I picked frigate... unfortunately I wasn't too used to the stage =/ I think I would probably be best with just FD
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
The characters I have trouble against with Kirby is Snakes, Olimars, and ROB's. Basically anyone that can spam and camp well. Lucario is decent against those characters, thats why I use him as a secondary.
But I would say the best secondary for Kirby mainers is Pit. Pit's great against all the match ups that Kirby is weak against.
But I would say the best secondary for Kirby mainers is Pit. Pit's great against all the match ups that Kirby is weak against.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
Pit is sounding pretty good just b/c he is one of the few with a more or less neutral match up against MK however he is difficult to master. I think the viable counter picks vs Snake are DDD, Pit, and Pikachu.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
Pika is so hard to learn, also the First post has been edited for a new character and has new vids, check it out.
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
Pikachu seems like a harder character to learn than Pit. Would you say Dedede is easy to pickup and learn?
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
DDD is incredibly easy to pickup and learn.
DDD's advantages are his chaingrab(EASY), Grab release on the edge (EASY), his strong kill moves, excellent spacing, strong aerials, a backair similar to Kirby's (EASY), and a very strong Inhale for countering (EASY).
Basically this match is all about grabs, chaingrab till ur heart is content and then chaingrab some more, also keeping Snake away from u by spacing aerails or tilts adds to DDD's strengths against Snake. As long as ur good at grabbing and have decent spacing u shouldn't have a problem with this matchup.
His Bair is just Like Kirby's his fall rate is different which is the only thing u'll have to become accustom to. Also some of his moves are a little laggy so u have to use the right moves. Utilt, Dtilt, Uair, Dair, Bair, Dsmash more or less
DDD's advantages are his chaingrab(EASY), Grab release on the edge (EASY), his strong kill moves, excellent spacing, strong aerials, a backair similar to Kirby's (EASY), and a very strong Inhale for countering (EASY).
Basically this match is all about grabs, chaingrab till ur heart is content and then chaingrab some more, also keeping Snake away from u by spacing aerails or tilts adds to DDD's strengths against Snake. As long as ur good at grabbing and have decent spacing u shouldn't have a problem with this matchup.
His Bair is just Like Kirby's his fall rate is different which is the only thing u'll have to become accustom to. Also some of his moves are a little laggy so u have to use the right moves. Utilt, Dtilt, Uair, Dair, Bair, Dsmash more or less
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
bump, there has been no discussion, please MK is one of the most difficult matchups
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
Umm.... MK feels even to me... o.o You just have lots of ridiculously good MK players on east coast lol.
OldManTellah
Smash Cadet
Even though it's not time for it I thought I should point out that I have a hard time with Game & Watches.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
I'll make G&W the next character discuss, in the meantime i have a counter to MK, a good one. Marth. The reason Marth Counters MK for many reasons.
First Post updated
His moves are all powerful, especially when tippered, and it seems that Marth has an answer in most situations. Despite this, Marth's poor recovery and lack of range when compared to most of the other characters at tournament level play can often lead to him having to work twice as hard as other high level characters in terms of recomvering. However, his strengths are all solid and his weaknesses are fairly shallow, which leads him to being a strong character choice for veteran smashers. With the ability to get absurdly low % KOs with tippered attacks, several attacks and setups out of shield, and his over-b combo attack giving him an easy and safe damage dealer, Marth is not a character to be taken lightly.
Also not mentioned in that little synopsis was the fact that Marth can do a release grab to Dair spike combo or a release grab to Fair tipper combo on MK.
Although his range is greater than MKs its best to learn ur spacing with Marth. Also move staleness management is important to playing Marth. That last Fsmash that missed might cost u a KO. Also Marth has great aerial range and a counter that can beat any move MK has. Did u just read that right? yes, any move in MK's arsenal except perhaps Forward B in certain cases can b countered.
Counter, coupled with, release grab Combo KOs, and his Forward B, for building damage makes Marth the quintessential MK counter.
First Post updated
His moves are all powerful, especially when tippered, and it seems that Marth has an answer in most situations. Despite this, Marth's poor recovery and lack of range when compared to most of the other characters at tournament level play can often lead to him having to work twice as hard as other high level characters in terms of recomvering. However, his strengths are all solid and his weaknesses are fairly shallow, which leads him to being a strong character choice for veteran smashers. With the ability to get absurdly low % KOs with tippered attacks, several attacks and setups out of shield, and his over-b combo attack giving him an easy and safe damage dealer, Marth is not a character to be taken lightly.
Also not mentioned in that little synopsis was the fact that Marth can do a release grab to Dair spike combo or a release grab to Fair tipper combo on MK.
Although his range is greater than MKs its best to learn ur spacing with Marth. Also move staleness management is important to playing Marth. That last Fsmash that missed might cost u a KO. Also Marth has great aerial range and a counter that can beat any move MK has. Did u just read that right? yes, any move in MK's arsenal except perhaps Forward B in certain cases can b countered.
Counter, coupled with, release grab Combo KOs, and his Forward B, for building damage makes Marth the quintessential MK counter.
I'm pretty sure moves only get stale when you hit with them. So it's ok to miss every once in a while.
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
But marths have the same matchup as kirby against MK? o.o they say its even lol.
Henryhta
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2008
- Messages
- 19
Marth will do better if you force MK to take action. If MK gets you into air, use counter and your airdodge to get back on ground. Neutral b to push you into the air and mess with his spacing/timing. If he is edge guarding, you are better off airdodging or counter. Due to Marth ability to recover, if you are coming in low from stage then you will probably be harassed or lose a stock, if you are farther away from the stage you are pretty much screwed.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
I understand what they say but they haven't played pro marths who utilize the grab release techniques. Marth is an all or nothing character. Either u know how to play him or u dont. There is no in between. I saw Neo Marth play against an MK and it was amazing. He had control of the match although it was close he was able to do what he wanted and space himself. Not saying its easy but Kirby's Bair and Marths tippered Fair are almost the exact same range.
Basically a pro Marth vs a Pro MK = advantage for Marth
Reioumu
Smash Lord
It's like, only if it's Neo, but even Neo has problems against MKs. At the last Chu's BiWeekly, Neo got outplaced by a bunch of metaknights and a snake. I dunno about it being a counter, but I do agree that Marth has a much better chance against Metakanight than Kirby. I would also advise using snake or G&W against MK. M2K says Snake counters MK completely.
As for G&W. I really don't know any counters for him. That's a tough one, but I would say people who can outspace him like Marth, and Dedede.
-Rei
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
Grrr.... at Snake for being so hard to learn. I would like to learn how to play Snake well but he's so hard to learn not to mention i feel so limited when i play him. I'm use to mobility and Snake kinda doesnt have that
Reioumu
Smash Lord
Eh, Snake was one of the easiest characters for me to learn. I've beaten scrubby and average metaknights with my snake that just uses Grenades, F-tilt, Up-tilt, and Mortar Slide. He's really easy to learn IMO. Grenade timing is easy too. You just need to be patient with him and just like attack out of your shield n stuff.
-Rei
-Rei
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
DDD is better against Snake
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
East cost though has some exceptional MK's to the point that a counter is necessary for less skilled players like myself
TwilightKirby
Smash Ace
But if kirby is your main wouldn't you be more skilled with him and less skilled with your secondary therefore making picking a character with an advantage over a character with a neutral matchup have pretty much the same odds as winning as if you sticked with your main? >.<
(confusing logic I know lol)
(confusing logic I know lol)
Nanaki
Smash Lord
I've heard talk of DK being a MK counter, don't know if I believe it or not. Seems like a well played DK would be pretty decent. High priority recovery to slightly offset MK's amazing gimping, long range, high priority on the sh double bair, and can kill MK at extremely low %, while surviving to extremely high % himself. It might be just me, but when I play MK's I tend to get KO'd pretty horizontally, which DK recovers well from.
Also heard stuff about Diddy, but Diddy's pretty much a counter to everyone if the Diddy is a good mindgamer. You might argue that he could be even against MK, but I still feel like he's at the disadvantage myself. MK is fast enough and floaty enough to avoid bananas, and has just as much air priority as Diddy. Diddy does do a good job of avoiding gimps with his versatile recovery though, and his pretty good at gimping as well. I dunno, I could see arguments both ways on this one.
Just my 2 cents. Probably not worth more than 1 cent to the rest of you
Also heard stuff about Diddy, but Diddy's pretty much a counter to everyone if the Diddy is a good mindgamer. You might argue that he could be even against MK, but I still feel like he's at the disadvantage myself. MK is fast enough and floaty enough to avoid bananas, and has just as much air priority as Diddy. Diddy does do a good job of avoiding gimps with his versatile recovery though, and his pretty good at gimping as well. I dunno, I could see arguments both ways on this one.
Just my 2 cents. Probably not worth more than 1 cent to the rest of you
CaliburChamp
Smash Master
To counter MK with Kirby. Make sure you recover high up above the stage, if your below the stage, your going to get gimped by MK by a stage spike.
Also, try to predict when MK will use shuttle loop and punish it with a stone attack. Never get in range of MK's downsmash, and if you can't help but be in range of his downsmash, shield and run away, dont try attacking MK, cause downsmash will attack quicker than any of Kirby's moves, except for maybe Kirby's jab. When MK uses tornado, final cutter will out prioritize it, but thats very situational, and stone attack will stop the MK from using tornado because stone pwns tornado so badly.
Just remember the bane of Meta knight is Kirby's Stone attack and prediction. Try using the stone attack more often in your battles against Meta Knight.
Also, try to predict when MK will use shuttle loop and punish it with a stone attack. Never get in range of MK's downsmash, and if you can't help but be in range of his downsmash, shield and run away, dont try attacking MK, cause downsmash will attack quicker than any of Kirby's moves, except for maybe Kirby's jab. When MK uses tornado, final cutter will out prioritize it, but thats very situational, and stone attack will stop the MK from using tornado because stone pwns tornado so badly.
Just remember the bane of Meta knight is Kirby's Stone attack and prediction. Try using the stone attack more often in your battles against Meta Knight.
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
Stone ***** shuttle loop when he's using shuttle loop but Marth's counter beats it more
jtowns
Smash Apprentice
Stone is much better than it was in melee
~Gonzo~
Smash Ace
I believe that the two main moves Marth needs to beat MK is counter and grab. If ur smart with ur grabs and smart with ur counter then u should deal quite a lot of damage and be able to kill with Fsmash or Usmash.
if marth gets stuck in tornado, if you practice you can use marth's dolphin slash to break out and hit mk with a solid attack at the same time. otherwise , just countering it is obviously the way to go.
btw i know we're not talking about dedede, and i know dedede is not a bad matchup for kirby anyway, but if you ever have trouble with one, just pick metaknight. seriously. you should win. unless you dont want to counterpick with such an all around godly character haha.
i look forward to the g&w section. dsmash and fsmash should NOT be killing me that early, that little ***.
btw i know we're not talking about dedede, and i know dedede is not a bad matchup for kirby anyway, but if you ever have trouble with one, just pick metaknight. seriously. you should win. unless you dont want to counterpick with such an all around godly character haha.
i look forward to the g&w section. dsmash and fsmash should NOT be killing me that early, that little ***.