**Update G&W** Second Characters to Counterpick with for Kirby Mainers Game & Watch

[~Gonzo~]

This forum is to discuss what Character Kirby mainers should second to counter their worst matchups.

Snake Finished

Counters to Snake that we are agreeing on are DDD, and Pikachu.
DDD's advantages are his chaingrab, Grab release on the edge, his strong kill moves, excellent spacing, strong aerials, a backair similar to Kirby's, and a very strong Inhale for countering.
Basically this match is all about grabs, chaingrab till ur heart is content and then chaingrab some more, also keeping Snake away from u by spacing aerails or tilts adds to DDD's strengths against Snake. As long as ur good at grabbing and have decent spacing u shouldn't have a problem with this matchup.

Pikachu: A relatively underused character with a small following, possess a lot of potential. With an aerial game rivaled only by few and a neutral B that stops campers cold, Pikachu has many advantages. First his Uair combos into another Uair. His Fair is very fast and has decent range , his Dair is not a spike but a finisher also has a lot of knockback and splash-damage on the ground. His Dsmash is an amazingly good counter move as good as ROB's. Snake's real game is on the ground. Pika can chaingrab snake to about 50-70 damage then use his aerial game to build another 50-70 damage b4 killing with thunder, Usmash, dair, or dsmash. Fsmash is harder cuz the sweetspot is in the middle. Also if ur fighting a campy snake using Neutral B is a great counter and forces Snake to approach, IS THAT POSSIBLE ?? lol anyway Pika is an excellent Counter to Snake and i suggest every Kirby player learns how to play Pikachu.

Here are some vids of these to characters in action.


Esam! Pika vs Snake

ESAM! Pika vs Snake

Nava Pika vs Mantis snake

DSF snake vs Zelgadise DDD

DSF snake vs Zelgadise DDD 2

Zelgadise DD vs Hostility snake

Next character
MetaKnight

Counter Pick None

I was discussing with my crew what they thought of Marth as a counter to and we have decided that noi one counters MK its more who is even with MK. If u feel that ur even with MK as Kirby then go right ahead and play with ur main. However if u feel that the MK ur playing is to fast for u. I suggest switching to Pika. His speed and aerial range, speed, comboabilty, Dsmash and thunder make him a great choice

Anther Pika vs Rofa MK

Anther Pika vs Rofa MK 2

Anther Pika vs GW jut for kicks

Azen Lucario vs Plank MK 1

Azen Lucario vs Forte MK1

Azen Lucario vs Forte MK 2

Azen Lucario vs Forte MK 3

Next Character Mr. Game and gay I MEAN Game & Watch

So the new topic is Game and Watch. I personally dont mind playing Game and Watch to much. He is annoying but his dair can be counterd by a SH hammer or the ground hammer if ur good at dash cancelling it. Bair can be countered by Airdodging while jump towards G&W or if u've caatch him early u can do a dash attack to counter. The Turtle has lag so u have to dodge and punish it. Also beware of Dsmash and Fsmash as they are his favorite finishers. Be a good tech'er or esle u can can get tech chased.

However if u need a counter to make the match up easier u can look at these vids at what the boards are suggesting as counters.

The boards believe that TL has an advantage over G&W but mainly Snake due to hist ridiculous KO otential at low percents

Also i wished to discuss another underused character against G&W, Fox. Although some believe this character has seen its last days of tourney his matchup rankings show almost all neutral. However since he's not seen in tourney his game hasn't evolved nor has it seen the camera. SO, if u know or have seen any good Fox vids please post them in the thread so i can add them to the list of ___ vs G&W vids



Vids
Valor Snake vs Beat G&W "3Stocked"

Cyphus G&W vs LEE snake (not as good but shows that although less skilled Snake won)

 

[storm92]

For Snake, I usually go Dedede.
He has great range with almost every move, his Bair is basically Kirby's with an extra kick, and he can take repeated Utilts due to his fall speed and weight.
Also, he can edgeguard Snake almost indefinitely with Fair/Bair/Nair to knock him out of his Cypher (Kirby can too with well timed Bairs and hammer).
It's just the range I love with DDD.
DDD also has little problem killing at lower %s. Whereas Kirby needs to get Snake above 100% usually to KO, D3 can do so at much lower %, and if he hits with a full Fsmash, he can at ridiculously low %s.

 

[~Gonzo~]

I agree, also something i've been experimenting with is the Grab release. Once DDD reaches the end of the stage u can choose to grab release snake forcing him to Jump back on the stage where he b grabbed again and Chained to the edge for a grab release again. Basically u just never Snake play on the stage. U force him to keep recovering over and over till he has KO damage

 

[storm92]

That sounds fun =D
I'm going to go test that out, is there any real way for him to escape it?

 

[cAm8ooo]

I second Zelda but I'm looking for another character. Hopefully this thread will point me into the right direction.

 

[~Gonzo~]

That sounds fun =D
I'm going to go test that out, is there any real way for him to escape it?

NOPE as long as u dont hit him when u want to grab release and as long as ur semi close to the edge.

 

[~Gonzo~]

I second Zelda but I'm looking for another character. Hopefully this thread will point me into the right direction.

Thats the goal, Zelda is a great character but her attacks come out to slow for me.

 

[cAm8ooo]

I didn't know DDD was that good against Snake, I use to main him for a little while, maybe it's time to brush the dust off of him and put him back into action.

 

[~Gonzo~]

He's considered the tourney counter for Snake. There is some talk that Pikachu is a counter to snake. I dont know how nor have i found any videos showing a good Pikachu vs Snake

Vids are up

 

[storm92]

Alright sounds good.
I'm going to do some friendlies soon I hope with a Snake main or two, so I'll take what I see using DDD and Pika and report back.

Also, a cookie to anyone who knows what the heck my avatar is.

 

[cAm8ooo]

Yea I'm going to be playing a Snake player in about an hour, ill try Dedede out.

and to storm, i have no idea what it means. I will take a cookie for trying to look it up on Google though.

 

[~Gonzo~]

Yea I'm going to be playing a Snake player in about an hour, ill try Dedede out.

and to storm, i have no idea what it means. I will take a cookie for trying to look it up on Google though.

Try and record some matches maybe?

 

[cAm8ooo]

I don't really have anything to record with at his house, but im planning on ordering a capture card soon.

 

[~Gonzo~]

sounds good, u can hook ur laptop or computer to ur tv AV outputs

another thing i'm seeing a lot of with DDD that works well against Snake are buffered uptilts, Utilt comes out so fast its crzy

 

[storm92]

From the Zel vids, it doesn't look like he's so much as a Snake counter as just a char that can actually keep up with Snake.
I still love the 0-50 combo on Snake with Kirby.

 

[DarKirby92]

storm, ur avatar is...

7 circles and a triangle!!!!!

nomnomnomnomnom

 

[storm92]

Winnar.

10kirbys?

But really...it does have a meaning? =D

 

[~Gonzo~]

So i sent samuraipanda a PM asking him to show me some vids of Anther's Pikachu, its supposedly one of the most amazing Pika's out there. Also i'm seriously considering Picking Pika Up myself due to his low profile in tourneys. No one would c it coming and then BAM, thunder in the face lol

 

[Sad Panda323]

^You know, a simple Youtube search would have given you plenty of videos.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4izF4oBeha8

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Fw5f2Z3ZCE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OGJM0xJqajI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7hIYYI9T8k

 

[TwilightKirby]

wow my comp is being really gay for some reason.. it keeps double posting recently lols...

I'm starting to learn captain falcon just cause its fun and everyone cheers for you if you start winning in a tourney match.

He can get that wtf how do I play against captain falcon reaction too. And ROB is one of his better matchups to boot. Still prolly won't counterpick him though =/

 

[TwilightKirby]

Sometimes when I'm really desperate... I counterpick...

Spoiler

pink kirby

 

[~Gonzo~]

^You know, a simple Youtube search would have given you plenty of videos.

I appreciate u finding these but we need Anther Pikachu vs Snake players, ROB players, and or MK players
These however r useful
Anther Vs ROFA MK

Anther Vs MK1

Anther pika vs MK 2

Anther vs ROB
I requested Samurai Panda to record 2-3 vids of his Snake vs Anther's Pika for us to see. Hopefully he will.

 

[TwilightKirby]

Metaknight isn't even that hard for kirby =/

 

[T-nuts]

what about pit as a snake counter? seems like you could pretty much outcamp him and pits arrows detonate snakes mines and grenades if you hit them. also pit is great at edgeguarding, and his best kill move is bair. if you can get snake off the side trying to recover and hit him with a bair at 85%, snake is dead.

pit may not be a counter exactly, but i think it would at least be even.

also, really campy characters in general give me trouble when im kirby if they pick a stage that is very easy to camp on (like FD). pit seems to be a great solution to this as well because he can force an approach from just about anyone. this is why i am currently trying to learn pit as a second main.

Pit doesnt do well against MK though, and G&w is a challenge...still need another character for those ones if i cant win with kirby.

 

[~Gonzo~]

What do uall think Of Pika, i think he's the next big thing in Brawl. Severly underestimated / underplayed he can give snake and MK a hard time He really doesnt have any bad matchups and the ones he does Kirby has even or good matchups against. Not only that u play him just like Kirby except u replace Bair with Fair, and u add a little downsmash. I was playing him a little today and i really felt like Pikachu is ROB combined with Kirby. It was amazing

Watch the Vids on the First Post Please.

 

[KirbyandSonicrock14]

Well Kirby my back up character. I main Sonic. Does that count?

 

[~Gonzo~]

Is Sonic a counter to MK, Snake, or ROB? if he is then plz tell us y u think so

 

[storm92]

Hey gonzo, I just played a good player's Snake and MK with my Pika and I can honestly say it is so much easier than facing them with my Kirby.
Snake isn't that hard for me with Kirby, but Pika I win every time.
I'm going to try to record some matches later of Pika vs. Snake/MK, I just recorded a few ones against a Marth and co. that I'm uploading as I speak.

 

[~Gonzo~]

sounds really good. I want to get really good with Pika and play against my friend Candy who has an amazing Snake (no homo) and a really good MK. Hopefully we can all watch each others videos and critique / develop Pika's counterpick game.

Also i'll post good vids of Pika or DDD matches uall take in the main thread

 

[TwilightKirby]

Really metaknight is probably the most solid counterpick there is o.o

Metaknight has a definite lack of bad matchups... I dont think he has any at all really... just even at worst. Like snake metaknight is even. Marth metaknight is even. Metaknight is the worst character for rob to play against.

Plus metaknight is a gimper just like kirby. Its a pretty easy transition. I barely ever play metaknight and when I do use him I can still win usually o.o hes just too good lol.

 

[storm92]

Yeah sounds like a good plan to me. Pika is really easy to pick up and learn, so it shouldn't be a problem.
QA recovery is godly, I love it.
I need to practice on the QA lock, that looks too easy to not use.

 

[~Gonzo~]

MK is pretty **** amazing, i just to want to be a victim of MK is the **** syndrome. I really dont want to have to use MK.

 

[TwilightKirby]

But cause we're good with kirby we can just say its just cause we are kirby fans =P

 

[storm92]

Same here, I actually got told at my last tourney in friendlies I was one of the best ones they'd ever seen and the best one at the tourney (funny because one of them got to the finals), but I really don't like using him as much as Kirby/Pika/CF.

 

[TwilightKirby]

Wah they told you you were one of the best metaknights they've ever seen???

They need to watch some more metaknights o.o theres like bajillions of metaknight players lols... and lots of the pros that win tourneys use metaknight too. Not trying to say anything bad about you o.o

Storm I need to go to the tourneys you go too =D lol.

 

[storm92]

Yeah, I was like O.o there are too many for me to be up there. I know I wasn't, I just think I impressed them =D

And yeah, we're both SoCal and never go to the same tourneys. We'll both have to make it to one soon.

 

[~Gonzo~]

lol agreed, i'm stuck w/ the likes of Forte, Chillin, Azen, Chu, M2K and more at every tourney i go to.

On another note i also dont want to use MK just cuz everyone everywhere plays him. People are prepared to play MK BUT if u play Kirby and Pika, Ur opponent is more likely to b caught off-guard giving u an advantage from the getgo.

 

[TwilightKirby]

I have a better suggestion: ZSS or zamus or zero suit samus.. watever lol

She has an advantage against ROB and snake and is even with marth, but has more range and combos. The reason its even is cause marth can get early kills cause shes so light.

Oh and I go to tournaments with DSF Futile Edrees Gamble... lol all the top 20 players in socal pretty much o.o and probably the other people that barely didn't make it on the list...

Which is why I want to go to the tourneys storm is going to lols. Ahh well its better for me to do decently in a hard/big tourney than to win a small tourney I suppose. Or rather its better for kirbys reputation =D

 

[storm92]

Yeah, all those big tourneys are either too far for me to drive to or I always have something planned that day.
I'm gonna try to make it up to one of the UCLA tourneys though.

 

[~Gonzo~]

I played Zamus for a little bit and i've seen Chillin counterpick Zamus against Marth players. Literally all he did lol was space Forward B. It worked i guess but Kirby vs Marth isn't to bad. I dont mind that match up nor do i mind Kirby vs ROB. Kirby vs ROB requires u to play smart and think ahead. Kirby vs Marth requires patience and baiting. both strategies are acheivable with Kirby.

Yo Critical Hit4 is coming Twilight. U should try and come out.