Iwan
Smash Ace
Playing some earlier (friendlies at virginia tech)...we began messing around for a match or two, and while doing this, i couldn't help but notice that one of falcon's moves (that i had barely ever used), is one of his most valuable.
His up b. Now, i never implemented this into my game before today, but after i realized how amazing it's priority was (yes...a move the captain has with priority), i started using it fairly often.
The uses i found for it include edge guarding (go off stage and throw out an aerial to force them to air dodge, and after your opponent's air dodge animation is done, immediately use falcon's up b back towards the stage. You could stage spike, and if not, you'll make it back to the stage safely. It works). Also, this move out prioritizes many, many moves...while giving you a completely stupid amount of DI out of it. You can literally move from the edge of FD to almost PAST the middle of the stage DI'ing out of this move. And that makes this move fairly safe to use in a few situations.
This move can be used in any direction you point it at, and it out prioritzed at least every aerial DK has, was far too quick for Rob to spike/nuetral air me, and ended up replacing my shield grab at certain points through out a match.
Note, we were messing around at first, but later on got back to serious matches, and the move was honestly a valuable asset.
I'll update this thread regularly as more is uncovered and i test out this move. Someone at least throw this move into your game, for at least a match or two, and let me know how you end up doing...because i know this move is almost never used outside of recovery, and it should be.
It definitely, definitely should be.
**UPDATE ONE: SHIELD CANCELED UP B**---Keykid was messing around in training mode, and confirmed that this move can also be shield canceled. The move can be used for dash-->shield--> Up B. HOWEVER, THIS ONLY WORKS WITH TAP JUMP ON. Non tap jumpers cannot shield cancel with this move.
**UPDATE TWO: LEDGE HOPPED UP B**---This move can also be ledge hopped! The advantage to using this as a ledge hopped move is that even if the opponent is blocking, they still get hit. The reach this has is very impressive as well. To be more specific, there are two stripes at the edges of Final Destination...with light blue in the middle of the stripes. This ledge hopped Up B can reach as far AND EVEN FARTHER than the middle of these two stripes (where the light blue is). It can reach even farther because this move's hit box is fairly big. However, this is harder to perform because you have to land first, and then immediately use up B, as opposed to straight up ledge hopping it. And by the time you do that, your opponent could spot dodge or react to avoid it. But again, i'll rephrase, THIS MOVE CAN BE LEDGE HOPPED. Props to Keykid once again.
****More things thrown in by Keykid on Ledge hopped up B:
** UPDATE THREE: DASH CANCELED UP B**---I totally forgot to mention this in my original post, but this move can also be dash canceled, which means it can also replace Falcon's dash grab. This could be useful at high percents to ensure a KO.
**UPDATE FOUR: GRAB PRIORITY**---Initially thought to be super armor, but further testing has proven that to be false. During the last few frames of Falcon's Up B (when he grabs), the move has grab priority on it...taking the damage but absorbing the knockback. I up B'd through DK's fully charged punch, took the damage, but continued through the move and landed with the grab from my UP b. Again...Falcon's up B has grab priority.
**UPDATE FIVE: PLATFORM ADVANTAGES---In levels with platforms, if your opponent is above you, you can up B through the platform and you're set; it hits them everytime (unless spot dodged). Once again, it can't be blocked, so unless they spot dodge the Up B is going to hit. Keykid tried this out specifically on Norfair, BF, and even pirate ship. It's possible to hit with Falcon's up b even if your opponent is at the top platform on pirate ship.
**UPDATE SIX: Keykid's recent take and testing, and Y34HDUD3's testing**
Keykid:
Keykid's testing:
His up b. Now, i never implemented this into my game before today, but after i realized how amazing it's priority was (yes...a move the captain has with priority), i started using it fairly often.
The uses i found for it include edge guarding (go off stage and throw out an aerial to force them to air dodge, and after your opponent's air dodge animation is done, immediately use falcon's up b back towards the stage. You could stage spike, and if not, you'll make it back to the stage safely. It works). Also, this move out prioritizes many, many moves...while giving you a completely stupid amount of DI out of it. You can literally move from the edge of FD to almost PAST the middle of the stage DI'ing out of this move. And that makes this move fairly safe to use in a few situations.
This move can be used in any direction you point it at, and it out prioritzed at least every aerial DK has, was far too quick for Rob to spike/nuetral air me, and ended up replacing my shield grab at certain points through out a match.
Note, we were messing around at first, but later on got back to serious matches, and the move was honestly a valuable asset.
I'll update this thread regularly as more is uncovered and i test out this move. Someone at least throw this move into your game, for at least a match or two, and let me know how you end up doing...because i know this move is almost never used outside of recovery, and it should be.
It definitely, definitely should be.
**UPDATE ONE: SHIELD CANCELED UP B**---Keykid was messing around in training mode, and confirmed that this move can also be shield canceled. The move can be used for dash-->shield--> Up B. HOWEVER, THIS ONLY WORKS WITH TAP JUMP ON. Non tap jumpers cannot shield cancel with this move.
**UPDATE TWO: LEDGE HOPPED UP B**---This move can also be ledge hopped! The advantage to using this as a ledge hopped move is that even if the opponent is blocking, they still get hit. The reach this has is very impressive as well. To be more specific, there are two stripes at the edges of Final Destination...with light blue in the middle of the stripes. This ledge hopped Up B can reach as far AND EVEN FARTHER than the middle of these two stripes (where the light blue is). It can reach even farther because this move's hit box is fairly big. However, this is harder to perform because you have to land first, and then immediately use up B, as opposed to straight up ledge hopping it. And by the time you do that, your opponent could spot dodge or react to avoid it. But again, i'll rephrase, THIS MOVE CAN BE LEDGE HOPPED. Props to Keykid once again.
****More things thrown in by Keykid on Ledge hopped up B:
---Thank you Key!!Here are a couple notes about the ledgehopped UpB that need to be put out there:
1. You don't HAVE to double jump before using the UpB like you do when ledgehopping Uair and Fair. UpB will still work. If you double jump you get more range though.
2. Be CAREFUL at Final Destination to not get caught under the stage when attempting the No Double Jump (NDJ) UpB Ledgehop. If you DI towards the stage too quickly, you will get caught under the edge and will most of the time die (although if you catch yourself quickly enough it is possible to DI back to the edge but the success rate of this is very low). Don't gimp yourself. You can very easily just do the double jump like on the other ledgehops and save yourself any worries about gimping yourself.
3. Since this move has Super Armor, you can break through any standing edgeguard. Yesterday BananaTrooper and I were trying out holding Falcon's AAA combo as a standing edgeguard, and the only ledgehop (of Falcon's) that could break it was when he did UpB. He didn't truly ledgehop it if memory serves though, but more of a drop, double jump away from the stage, UpB. So yeah if you want to punish people spamming moves at the edge just ledgehop them with UpB instead of getting hit trying to do Uair or Fair. This strategy might not work in all situations and timings though because I haven't tested it. But I know it SHOULD work. lol If anyone wants to mess around with it while I'm off doing chores today feel free to.
** UPDATE THREE: DASH CANCELED UP B**---I totally forgot to mention this in my original post, but this move can also be dash canceled, which means it can also replace Falcon's dash grab. This could be useful at high percents to ensure a KO.
**UPDATE FOUR: GRAB PRIORITY**---Initially thought to be super armor, but further testing has proven that to be false. During the last few frames of Falcon's Up B (when he grabs), the move has grab priority on it...taking the damage but absorbing the knockback. I up B'd through DK's fully charged punch, took the damage, but continued through the move and landed with the grab from my UP b. Again...Falcon's up B has grab priority.
**UPDATE FIVE: PLATFORM ADVANTAGES---In levels with platforms, if your opponent is above you, you can up B through the platform and you're set; it hits them everytime (unless spot dodged). Once again, it can't be blocked, so unless they spot dodge the Up B is going to hit. Keykid tried this out specifically on Norfair, BF, and even pirate ship. It's possible to hit with Falcon's up b even if your opponent is at the top platform on pirate ship.
**UPDATE SIX: Keykid's recent take and testing, and Y34HDUD3's testing**
Keykid:
Which dairs do and don't outprioritze Falcon's Up B:Ok so after playing like 4 or 5 matches against the same ZSS that is in the video I posted of myself in the Falcon Video Thread, I came to the conclusion that UpB definitely has use. For example:
Zamus' Dair is just asking for an UpB. I got a nice 17% everytime the Zamus tried Dair-ing me.
Shield-canceled UpB is great when you are shielding and your opponent is attacking your shield. No matter how short the lag after they attack, you will be able to get an UpB in. It is more useful than a grab because its grab range is MUCH further than Falcon's terrible shield grab range. It also does more damage. It is more useful than any of his tilts because you have no chance of getting your attack broken because it will outprioritize any attack. It also does slightly more damage than any of the tilts. The same reasoning applies to why it's more useful than the AAA combo as well. I see no reason why UpB shouldn't be used as a shield-canceled move. I know that you CAN miss, but it's not likely if you have any enemy anticipation skills at all.
UpB is a good ledgehop depending on the situation. Like I've said before it outprioritizes essentially everything so you don't have to worry about getting hit like you do with Fair and Uair. It also has the ability reach beyond the range of those other two ledgehopped moves.
Dash-canceled UpB is useful if you are chasing after hitting your opponent up. If you don't "mindgame" them correctly and DO get airdodged, oh well because you can DI and FF far enough away from where your opponent lands that they won't be able to land and then dash over to you before your lag is over. Maybe Sonic could but I haven't tested this on Sonic so I don't know. lol While UpB has more priority than Running A, it's harder to connect with, so if your opponent is on the ground I don't think UpB is that great of an option. Still useful depending on the situation I think though.
Keykid's testing:
Y43HDUD3's testing:Toon Link Dair: Yes but only from certain angles. If he is directly above you and you do it you'll get hit. But if he's the slightest bit in front of you, you'll get it. I guess this makes sense since the UpB hitbox is essentially Falcon's face, not the top of his head (if that makes sense to anybody but me lol).
Metaknight: Essentially same story here. I've gotten it to work but like Toon Link's it only works if Meta is a smidge in front of you as you approach. If you're off you're going to get hit.
Ike: Breaks through Aether's drop. Dair as well from certain angle of appraoch (the sides). Same story as the others.
Game and Watch: I can't seem to get a grab on it unless I would otherwise not get hit by it. lol Maybe that's true with my other tests and I didn't notice? So yeah possible error there. If someone else has a better way to test than one person manning two controllers poorly while trying to make observations at the same time then please do so. lol
One note about all of these: UpB's priority SEEMS to strengthen as the move progress through its duration. If I've just started the jump portion (not the crouching-ish startup portion but actually the first little bit of upward movement) I get get hit by all three of the aforementioned Dairs. But if I start my UpB a little earlier and thereby get more UpB duration BEFORE I reach the Dair, I outprioritize them. Also, sometimes I take damage when I outprioritize and sometimes I don't. This makes me think that MAYBE the middle priority takes damage and MAYBE the highest priority of the UpB doesn't. That's just a guess though. It could just be differences in my approach angle. lol
More testing is needed!
It goes through Olimar's dair. (You still get damage) Hurray!!!
It doesn't go through Dedede's dair, but if you grab him from the sides then there's no problem.
Goes through Ganondorf's.
Goes through Sheik's, go for Zelda's sides or you'll get hit.
Go for Link's sides.
Goes through the front of Pit's dair attack. (the part of the attack facing you) (You still get damage)
Go for Lucario's sides. (You still get a bit of damage from the first blast)
The Ice Climbers are special. You will damage the one you grab a little bit but the other one will hit you and won't let you finish the attack. Isn't favorable, IMO.