Unofficial Project M Ridley - CLASSIC RIDLEY BETA RELEASED! 31/10/16

[BaganSmashBros]

For those who already downloaded BrawlEx version (i saw 4 downloads already) - redownload it. I used outdated models (models in the new version should have that Battlefield glitch fixed by KingJigglypuff while outdated models have completly different shaders).

 

[AbbiDood]

Watching someone playing as Ridley against CPU and actually using him are different things. Tail will be curled like that outside of more active animations (like running, attacking, jumping), but only later, when other issues will be gone.
I already said that i won't change his aerial mobility and explained why (must be somewhere on previous pages, i don't remember where exactly, but it was shortly after release of v1.5). Range is getting reduced on STilt, SSmash and DSmash in the next update (not by much). That range is still not really that great and i'll explain why. You know how Marth's tipper deals more damage while rest of the sword isn't that good, but still can be used to KO and damage opponents? Well, you see, Ridley has something similar. Except its heavely exaggerated - tip deals high damage and knockback (not always that high, but you understand what i mean), but everything else on the tail is as weak as most jabs in the game (3% damage and low knockback). It also has low hitlag. So, hitting with the sourspot may lead into troubles. I can't do anything about tail range anyway - if i will make his tail any more shorter than that, it will look heavely distorted during animation in which its not straight or only slightly curved. Thats just the way his tail is rigged. Recovery on his moves is already long enough to be higher than Ganondorf's (who is also stronger).
Yeah, i know. I just wanted to add all animation as fast as possible while still keeping animation quality high without making them too large in size. Will be fixed along with the way tail is posed while he isn't using it.

I actually downloaded and played around with him yesterday and I still stand by everything I said.
You know how the C-Stick in Brawl/Project M coded to work as "direction + A at the same time", right? The fact that ridley legit moves forward NOTICEABLY when using fair and bair with the c-stick is a bit too ridiculous imo. You should most definitly cut down on his aerial mobility, becouse right now things like that are just too stupid and make him, at least imo, not even fun to use. He feels extremly finnicky and just weird in the air. I'm not gonna read through potentionally 20 or so pages to know your reasoning for this air mobility, but yea. There you go.

If making the tail shorter is a problem becouse of how the model is rigged then I'd suggest rerigging it. I know that takes work, and having to adjust all his animations again takes work too, but it'd help make the character feel more legit. I'd go as far as to suggest making his wings a bit shorter too, maybe by like 5% or so, the rest of his body is fine.

Another animation that needs some cleaning up to do is forward air, just thought I'd mention that. Needs more ending frames.
Another balancing suggestion I have is to change his neutral air, becouse right now he really doesn't have a move to approach with in the air. Nair has too much start up, fair doesn't hit a lot of characters when done instantly. Giving him a different nair, or like I said shortening his tail/making the move faster/weaker, would help.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I actually downloaded and played around with him yesterday and I still stand by everything I said.
You know how the C-Stick in Brawl/Project M coded to work as "direction + A at the same time", right? The fact that ridley legit moves forward NOTICEABLY when using fair and bair with the c-stick is a bit too ridiculous imo. You should most definitly cut down on his aerial mobility, becouse right now things like that are just too stupid and make him, at least imo, not even fun to use. He feels extremly finnicky and just weird in the air. I'm not gonna read through potentionally 20 or so pages to know your reasoning for this air mobility, but yea. There you go.

If making the tail shorter is a problem becouse of how the model is rigged then I'd suggest rerigging it. I know that takes work, and having to adjust all his animations again takes work too, but it'd help make the character feel more legit. I'd go as far as to suggest making his wings a bit shorter too, maybe by like 5% or so, the rest of his body is fine.

Another animation that needs some cleaning up to do is forward air, just thought I'd mention that. Needs more ending frames.
Another balancing suggestion I have is to change his neutral air, becouse right now he really doesn't have a move to approach with in the air. Nair has too much start up, fair doesn't hit a lot of characters when done instantly. Giving him a different nair, or like I said shortening his tail/making the move faster/weaker, would help.

I digged it out:

As for aerial mobility few were complaining about - that won't be done. I tried slightly reducing it and it felt stiff and uncomfortable. And that is not all problems that come from that. Without this, Ridley has nothing going for him other than his range (which doesn't really matters when only tail blade can do anything worth attacking), fast aerial attacks (UAir, BAir, FAir and maybe DAir), strong projectile (which travels slowly and comes out slowly), good recovering abilities, temporary light armor (which breaks after taking enough damage and not only slows him down, but also disables L-Cancelling) and attack power. Even then, he has weaknesses that can't be overlooked:

• Large size;
• Low weight;
• Low falling speed;
• Start up and end lag issues (some actions can be punished with a Falcon Punch without it really being dangerous);
• Downright disgusting sourspots (3% for most of them);
• Low ground speed;
• Very dangerous to use vertical recovery.

So, without aerial mobility, he is like Melee Mewtwo or Melee Ganondorf without any ATs or just Bowser with higher range, fireballs instead of fire breath, better recovery and no super armor. So, i won't reduce it. I won't increase it either because that would be ridicolous.

I don't know what causes him to move forward when using C-Stick, so, i don't think i can fix it. It just...happens. I used Brawl Pit as a base, so, maybe thats why.

I can't rig models or even re-rig them and do you know how much work it will take just for something that may or may not work? Tail moves around more than any other body part in his animation and there are 12 bones to move in each animation. Not sure about reducing wings' size - that will also require editing every animation they appear in (it won't be as bad as with tail) and it will be harder to animate wing flaps since each "finger" can bend only at its base and nowhere else.

I agree about FAir. Too...instant in both ways. I'll try to not make it last for too long and make it like most of Ganondorf's aerials - animations are long, but they can be interrupted pretty early. Not sure about NAir. I wanted to make his tail less...er...compressed during it. That may help. Shortening his tail won't help much without buffing it in some other way (reduced start up, increased damage and/or knockback, etc). Decreasing start up will help more than both.

 

[AbbiDood]

Alright, about all those weaknesses you mentioned.. how about making those things better, and nerfing his aerial mobility? Make him a bit heavier, make him fall a bit faster (which he doesn't really need imo), start up and lag issues aren't as much an "issue" if you ask me that range more than makes up for it, fix some of those "disgusting sourspots", I do agree that his ground speed is too slow, at least his running could be a tiny bit faster, recovery is whatever he has pretty high jumps.

 

[TheDarkKnightNoivern]

Alright, about all those weaknesses you mentioned.. how about making those things better, and nerfing his aerial mobility? Make him a bit heavier, make him fall a bit faster (which he doesn't really need imo), start up and lag issues aren't as much an "issue" if you ask me that range more than makes up for it, fix some of those "disgusting sourspots", I do agree that his ground speed is too slow, at least his running could be a tiny bit faster, recovery is whatever he has pretty high jumps.

I kinda have too agree, the speed at which ridley moves in the air combined with his size just looks weird and unnatural compared to other characters. Nerfing that and slightly improving his ground game is a good idea imo. Also a slight weight increase would be good considering how easily he gets knocked around by projectiles

 

[Weiss]

Went through the Great Maze with Ridley and found this nightmare.

It's Pit with Ridley's rig.

This looks like how I draw. I like it.
@ BaganSmashBros
Is she around to explain it?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Alright, about all those weaknesses you mentioned.. how about making those things better, and nerfing his aerial mobility? Make him a bit heavier, make him fall a bit faster (which he doesn't really need imo), start up and lag issues aren't as much an "issue" if you ask me that range more than makes up for it, fix some of those "disgusting sourspots", I do agree that his ground speed is too slow, at least his running could be a tiny bit faster, recovery is whatever he has pretty high jumps.

Don't know. He is better known for flying around like mad in Super Metroid and he was shown being rather slugish on the ground. Will try to make such version (nerfed aerial mobility, buffed pretty much everything mentioned) just to see how it will turn out.

This looks like how I draw. I like it.
@ BaganSmashBros
Is she around to explain it?

Who is "she"? If thats a typo, then i can explain - Ridley pack does not includes models for Subspace Emissary clones. That simple.

 

[Weiss]

Don't know. He is better known for flying around like mad in Super Metroid and he was shown being rather slugish on the ground. Will try to make such version (nerfed aerial mobility, buffed pretty much everything mentioned) just to see how it will turn out.

Who is "she"? If thats a typo, then i can explain - Ridley pack does not includes models for Subspace Emissary clones. That simple.

The BrawlEx think you said you had no idea how to work...
I ask if the person who made it for you knew how to work it haha.
Also, where could I find these spikeless models? May have missed them.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Also, where could I find these spikeless models? May have missed them.

http://forums.kc-mm.com/Gallery/BrawlView.php?Number=207876

 

[HypnotizeOverdrive]

A BrawlEx port is cool and all, but what about the SFX? Unless it uses Brawl Ridley's SFX instead of Pit's, then in which case disregard this post.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

A BrawlEx port is cool and all, but what about the SFX? Unless it uses Brawl Ridley's SFX instead of Pit's, then in which case disregard this post.

...I think it does. Never tested it since i don't know how to use BrawlEx.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

No, it doesn't. Even more - it uses Pit's SFX. Kinda forgot how this whole thing works and he/she didn't sent Ridley's files with updated SFX IDs.

 

[HypnotizeOverdrive]

You have replace a boss's or enemy's SFX with the SFX Ridley uses, and then edit Ridley's .pac file to point to the new SFX.

Or just make the attacks point to Brawl Ridley's SFX, unless your PSA has more SFX than that.

 

[Cpt.]

Impassable Pit, perhaps?

...what is edge cancelling? And doesn't it puts him into helpless state and lifts up into the air at the end? I want to see it executed properly.

Ledge canceling is when you fall off a ledge after using an attack which cancels any move you just used. Youtube "Ganon on Ice" by Bizzaroflame and you will see what I mean.

In Ridley's case it cancels out the helpless state when you fall back onto the platform. So you can keep using the side B fast.

BTW, awesome new avatar!

 

[BaganSmashBros]

You have replace a boss's or enemy's SFX with the SFX Ridley uses, and then edit Ridley's .pac file to point to the new SFX.

Or just make the attacks point to Brawl Ridley's SFX, unless your PSA has more SFX than that.

I know. Had to do that while making Ridley using Brawl model.

Ledge canceling is when you fall off a ledge after using an attack which cancels any move you just used. Youtube "Ganon on Ice" by Bizzaroflame and you will see what I mean.

In Ridley's case it cancels out the helpless state when you fall back onto the platform. So you can keep using the side B fast.

BTW, awesome new avatar!

Sounds weird.

I don't know how to fix that either way. Its issue with game's engine/physics.

 

[Cpt.]

I know. Had to do that while making Ridley using Brawl model.

Sounds weird.

I don't know how to fix that either way. Its issue with game's engine/physics.

Here is a clip to show you what I mean. I'm not really sure if it is too good, but it seems like it could be pretty absurd against some characters.

If you were looking to fix it, I'd say to make it so he can't go backwards after using the move... if that's possible.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Here is a clip to show you what I mean. I'm not really sure if it is too good, but it seems like it could be pretty absurd against some characters.

If you were looking to fix it, I'd say to make it so he can't go backwards after using the move... if that's possible.

Thats not possible. Either he can move while falling or he can't move horizontally. Looks ridicolous BTW.

 

[drogoth232]

I think you'd either have to increase gravity or decrease air mobility.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I think you'd either have to increase gravity or decrease air mobility.

Increasing gravity/falling speed will buff him instead (it will be harder to vertically KO him), but decreasing air mobility can fix that. But it also will signifficantly nerf him.

 

[Cpt.]

I'll have to play against one of my friends who is really good to see if it really is as absurd as it looks. There could be a way to punish it well enough. I'll get back to you, Bagan.

 

[AbbiDood]

Will try to make such version (nerfed aerial mobility, buffed pretty much everything mentioned) just to see how it will turn out.

Cool. Even if you don't like how he ends up, mind posting it in this thread whenever it's done? Would much rather play with that Ridley. I'd even be cool if you only nerfed his air mobility and kept him the way he is otherwise, but yea.

 

[Weiss]

It never ends haha.

 

[AuraShaman]

Went through the Great Maze with Ridley and found this nightmare.

It's Pit with Ridley's rig.

Spoiler

Also, BaganSmashBros , what's with the cool new avatar? Are you hinting at a new skin?

 

[Dark-Samus-Lives]

Just downloaded Ridley. Very nice job as expected. It's not perfect but a lot of my criticisms have been brought up before so I don't want to be the one to beat a dead horse.

I saw a conversation a couple pages back about implementing Meta Ridley's Plasma Beam as an alternative neutral B over the Meta Ridley Costume (if you ever actually get it implemented). Any thoughts about this? I have a lot of ideas already but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

 

[AuraShaman]

@ Dark-Samus-Lives : All of my yes.

 

[Warzenschwein]

I just beat Ridley in Super Metroid and barely survived... reminded me why I wanted this character to be playable, lol.

Regarding the Plasma Beam:
It's cool but the thing is it's an attack that'd only work for Meta Ridley. And I'm not a fan of a costume giving you an extra option (+ Ridley already has a plethora of options..)

 

[AuraShaman]

I'm pretty sure we are meaning an asthetic change.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

For those criticizing the balance of Ridley, I've been given permission (look a few pages back) to make needed balance edits for Ridley.

So bring up everything that should be addressed, and I'll look into it.

 

[AuraShaman]

For those criticizing the balance of Ridley, I've been given permission (look a few pages back) to make needed balance edits for Ridley.

So bring up everything that should be addressed, and I'll look into it.

Ummm.....hmm..... Angle his down air? Have it only spike on the first frame? Slow down a few of his attacks like his jab to give them more weight.


A more asthetic change I'd like to see is a change in his dash and crouch animations. I'd like to see him have more of a DK-style dash, while giving him the ability to crawl, and transfering his current dash animation for that. Seeing he will likely need to be on all fours for his new crouch animation, I'd also recommend nerfing his down tilt and changing it to another tail swipe; this way, Ridley can trip opponents at lower percentages... That, or make it a horizontal claw swipe.

If possible, I'd like to see his down B only reflect nonphysical* projectiles, while also having enough super armor to resist flinching from physical projectiles; any physical projectile capable of enough knockback on Ridley will destroy the reflector shield.

*when I talk physical, I mean bombs, missiles, rocks, and misc throwing items. Nonphysical means energy-based; fire, electricity, magic, etc.



God forgive me that I miss out a balancing suggestion.

 

[OmegaX5000]

For those criticizing the balance of Ridley, I've been given permission (look a few pages back) to make needed balance edits for Ridley.

So bring up everything that should be addressed, and I'll look into it.

I mentioned on the previous page that his horizontal fireballs have seemingly infinite range. I only say seemingly because it traveled the entire length of the Training Room stage and kept going offscreen. Maybe have it dissipate after a set distance since it currently goes over 5x the length of Fox's blaster shots.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

Ummm.....hmm..... Angle his down air? Have it only spike on the first frame?

I'm going to experiment with this move before I truly know what I'm going to do with it.

Slow down a few of his attacks like his jab to give them more weight..

More weight? What do you mean by that?

Ummm.....hmm..... Angle his down air? Have it only spike on the first frame? Slow down a few of his attacks like his jab to give them more weight.


A more asthetic change I'd like to see is a change in his dash and crouch animations. I'd like to see him have more of a DK-style dash, while giving him the ability to crawl, and transfering his current dash animation for that. Seeing he will likely need to be on all fours for his new crouch animation

Since Ridley uses Pit as a base, he cannot have a crawl.

I'd also recommend nerfing his down tilt and changing it to another tail swipe; this way, Ridley can trip opponents at lower percentages... That, or make it a horizontal claw swipe.

What's wrong with his current Down Tilt?

If possible, I'd like to see his down B only reflect nonphysical* projectiles, while also having enough super armor to resist flinching from physical projectiles; any physical projectile capable of enough knockback on Ridley will destroy the reflector shield.

*when I talk physical, I mean bombs, missiles, rocks, and misc throwing items. Nonphysical means energy-based; fire, electricity, magic, etc.

I'm afraid that's not possible. But I could see if I can make the armor state end if he's hit by a heavy attack.

I mentioned on the previous page that his horizontal fireballs have seemingly infinite range. I only say seemingly because it traveled the entire length of the Training Room stage and kept going offscreen. Maybe have it dissipate after a set distance since it currently goes over 5x the length of Fox's blaster shots.

I'll certainly look into that.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Cool. Even if you don't like how he ends up, mind posting it in this thread whenever it's done? Would much rather play with that Ridley. I'd even be cool if you only nerfed his air mobility and kept him the way he is otherwise, but yea.

Of course.

Spoiler

Also, BaganSmashBros , what's with the cool new avatar? Are you hinting at a new skin?

Maybe. Its not finished yet. Well, it is fully functional, but its not that special since its just Ridley with white head, black body, torn wings and glowing white...something instead of eyes.

Just downloaded Ridley. Very nice job as expected. It's not perfect but a lot of my criticisms have been brought up before so I don't want to be the one to beat a dead horse.

I saw a conversation a couple pages back about implementing Meta Ridley's Plasma Beam as an alternative neutral B over the Meta Ridley Costume (if you ever actually get it implemented). Any thoughts about this? I have a lot of ideas already but I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

It will either be too hard to balance or it wouldn't actually be that attack. The closest thing to that would be Meta Ridley having different sound and hitsparks on attacks (for example, electric hitsparks instead of normal on Up Smash) and different GFX on aerial Down B.

I'm going to experiment with this move before I truly know what I'm going to do with it.

I'll say right now it has hitbox only on the tip of tail that appears only when he goes down and its inferiour to PM Wario's DAir in nearly every way (the only advantage over it is that he bounces up higher upon hitting someone).

 

[Weiss]

So what's looking official?
When all is said and done I shall return to being your Guinea pig.

 

[drogoth232]

Since Ridley uses Pit as a base, he cannot have a crawl.

Pretty sure you can use BEx to edit the module to give him a crawl.

Either that or you could code it in, manually.

 

[KingJigglypuff]

I knew that. <:v

 

[drogoth232]

I knew that. <:v

Then don't use false claims :V

 

[500YearOldGrandpa]

For those criticizing the balance of Ridley, I've been given permission (look a few pages back) to make needed balance edits for Ridley.

So bring up everything that should be addressed, and I'll look into it.

Don't know if you already plan on changing it, but the aerial mobility is the only thing that really bugs me at this stage. It doesn't look or feel right, and it's definitely OP.

 

[AuraShaman]

Since Ridley uses Pit as a base, he cannot have a crawl.

Pretty sure you can use BEx to edit the module to give him a crawl.

Either that or you could code it in, manually.

I knew that. <:v

Then don't use false claims :V

Huehue, funne.

What's wrong with his current Down Tilt?

I feel for a down tilt, it looks unnatural. It goes back to the whole "weight" feel; I feel it just needs to be slowed down to feel natural.

That, and so many other fighters with tails use them for their down tilt.

Well, it is fully functional, but its not that special since its just Ridley with white head, black body, torn wings and glowing white...something instead of eyes.

This gives me an idea! If you can, save the torn wings and glowing eye sockets for Ridley's blue alt. The blue alt is based off Neo Ridley, a zombie X-parasite version of Ridley, correct? He NEEDS those eyes and wings to really play that surreal, undead look! And while we're at it, we can brighten and dull out the skin color to make it look even more undead! This is is special treatment for his blue alt, of course; much like the multiple times I suggest straightening out the snout of the beak on his Other M alt.

Spoiler

Inb4 someone tells me that isn't possible because my suggestions are just too farfetched~ T_T

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I feel for a down tilt, it looks unnatural. It goes back to the whole "weight" feel; I feel it just needs to be slowed down to feel natural.

That, and so many other fighters with tails use them for their down tilt.

He already uses his tail too much. Yes, its his main weapon outside of Other M (where claws are his main weapon) and Metroid Prime games (where projectiles are his main weapons), but his claws are sharp not to just look menacing. They need some love too and character with aerial combat as main focus certainly should have a launcher like Ridley's current DTilt. Also, all characters with tails (except for Bowser and PM Charizard) use them for DTilt, so, something different is always nice.

This gives me an idea! If you can, save the torn wings and glowing eye sockets for Ridley's blue alt. The blue alt is based off Neo Ridley, a zombie X-parasite version of Ridley, correct? He NEEDS those eyes and wings to really play that surreal, undead look! This is is special treatment for his blue alt, of course; much like the multiple times I suggest straightening out the snout of the beak on his Other M alt.

Ridley-X is less of a zombie (he is such only when you see him as dry husk) and more of a mutated copy of Ridley's clone (sounds ridicolous though), with main differences being signifficantly increased size, more spikes and something that looks like a pair of vestigal wings below normal wings. Omega Ridley is more of a zombie than him.

 

[AuraShaman]

Ridley-X is less of a zombie (he is such only when you see him as dry husk) and more of a mutated copy of Ridley's clone (sounds ridicolous though), with main differences being signifficantly increased size, more spikes and something that looks like a pair of vestigal wings below normal wings. Omega Ridley is more of a zombie than him.

B..but Ridley-X looks so zombie-ish! ;_; I mean c'mon, it's a virus infecting a corpse, and bringing it back as a hellspawn! You can't tell me that isn't an ingenius idea; plus, I only remember being phazon being a corruptive, radioactive substance, not a virus.

If you have a better idea for which current alt you'd like to use it on, I'll gladly hear it.