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University of Texas - Austin

What events do you want to see at our meetings?

  • Brawl Singles/Doubles

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Melee Low Tiers

    Votes: 2 18.2%
  • Brawl+ Singles/Doubles

    Votes: 1 9.1%
  • Smash 64 Singles/Doubles

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Brawl Minus Singles

    Votes: 3 27.3%
  • Random Character/Random Stage tourney (any game)

    Votes: 3 27.3%

  • Total voters
    11
  • Poll closed .

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,973
grass-cattle (who I assume is Jose), it's not enough to beat someone more often than they beat you in friendlies to declare yourself the better player. Even having a 100% win rate against a particular player in tournament won't make you better than them. If Clay beats Jamal in the next 10 smash tournaments, I would still point out that Jamal is the superior player, and likely to place higher in tournaments.

Ranking Jamal as the worst of those 4 players makes no sense. I know for a fact that Jamal is better than Matt and Clay. Jose, I don't have enough experience playing you to make the same judgment, but considering your lack of tournament experience, we have no choice but to rank Jamal above you. Of course, if you enter a few tournaments and place higher than him each time, we'll change this. But it's not as simple as "I beat him in friendlies, so I'm better than he is."

For the record, you really should not even be ranked until you at least enter a tournament. It's unfair to the players who actually enter the events and compete.

And just a remark: it's bull **** when players don't enter tournaments because they know they'll lose. Those of us who win had to go through years of non-stop losses to get where we are. It's an insult to expect good players to show up but not expect to enter the tournament yourself when it's their only incentive to appear. With that in mind, I'd like to thank all the players who do consistently enter, even when they don't expect to do well. And I'd like to point out that those are the players who improve fastest, as evidenced by Jamal, Clay and Edgar, who have gotten quite a bit better in the past few months. Even Sharif, who's been playing with us for only a few weeks, has gotten a lot better by entering the tournaments.
 

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,973
It took me a while to understand your post. At first I thought you were going to a place called "brofist" for a lecture.
 

Hylian

Not even death can save you from me
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 9, 2004
Messages
23,165
Location
Missouri
Switch FC
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I'm going to go to more meetings until I beat kal in one tournament then I'm going to quit and never play him again >_>.

>_>.
 

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,973
Then you'll be driving to a tournament with Jamal and Jesus Freak one day and BOOM!

teehee
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
****... I forgot to add a "you" after "brofist." Oh well, you got the point :)

I'll maybe drop by for the next UT Smash Club Brawl tournament. Gotta show up at least once before I quit this game and graduate the school, haha.
 

JOS.fm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
363
Location
Austin-UT/San Antonio
that's a pretty good point. being a good player against a general public rather than one person is a better estimation of how good a players. in that sense, I'll concede my thought.

and about your remark, which I brought about due to the fact that I won't enter tournaments because I'll lose... so? our club is centered around the idea of improving and having a good time, not in creating an environment where one must consistently enter tournaments lest we insult the good players who 'bother' to show up. the tournaments we hold are for fun and to entice all types of players, not just good ones. even if I was the best player in the club, I still wouldn't pay. I would understand if the money went solely towards food and drinks and miscellaneous things like recording setups , but when it goes towards players pockets, it does the club no great favor.

edit: sharief is a pretty cool guy!
 

Tirno

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
207
Location
Austin, TX
and about your remark, which I brought about due to the fact that I won't enter tournaments because I'll lose... so? our club is centered around the idea of improving and having a good time, not in creating an environment where one must consistently enter tournaments lest we insult the good players who 'bother' to show up. the tournaments we hold are for fun and to entice all types of players, not just good ones. even if I was the best player in the club, I still wouldn't pay. I would understand if the money went solely towards food and drinks and miscellaneous things like recording setups , but when it goes towards players pockets, it does the club no great favor.
It's not about insults. Kal is just noting that entering (and losing) tournaments is part of the cycle of being a competitive smasher (or competitive gamer in general). I mean, how competitive do you think Melee would be if everyone who didn't stand a chance of earning cash refused to enter? There would be no competitive scene, no incentive for improvement. And it's not like it's just for the good of the players who win money. There's no competitive environment like a tournament, and, as such, no better way to improve not only your Melee skills, but necessary skills like stamina and controlling your nerves. So by mentioning the club's purpose in improving the community, you've answered your own question.

Also, why does it matter to you where the money goes? Half the people who have won money at Smash Club have been officers who spend their time and money organizing the events. Even if the money went towards the club, it would pretty much just fund the junk food we have there. As far as I know, the club isn't in some dire need of money.

Also x2, you're not the only one he was talking about.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
While I can see why you say entering tournaments play a role in improving, IMO it's the friendlies against people at your own level or better are really the core to improving. Personally, when I'm presented with a $5 entry fee to enter a tournament, it seems like too much. I know I'm a cheapass, but think of all the Wendy's spicy chicken nuggets you could get? That's 25 nuggets.

If the entry fees were really cheap like $1-2, I'd probably enter because it's only like sacrificing 5-10 chicken nuggets. And the fact that there is money (at all) on the line creates something to play for, not just first or second, which in turn creates a competitive environment. The point is, 25 chicken nugget sacrifice is too much, but 5-10 chicken nugget sacrifice is reasonable.

In conclusion, all in favor for cheap entry fees for tournaments!!

But seriously, I don't mean to insult those that worked hard and went through what I'm going through to get better. From my point of view, since I know I'm not going to win anything, it's essentially paying for the tournament experience. $5 seems too much just to get some serious matches. Compromise!!
 

Tirno

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
207
Location
Austin, TX
It's not "play a role in improving." Friendlies and tournament matches go hand-in-hand towards improvement, but tournament matches are especially critical. Come on, it's called competitive smash. Why not enter an actual competition every once in a while? Besides, Melee isn't actually going to last forever. In all likelihood, either it'll grow too old or you will. Why not enjoy the competitive scene to the fullest while it lasts?

On the topic of value, five dollars seriously isn't that much. Just cause Wendy's offers crappy nuggets subsidized by economies of scale doesn't mean everything in life that isn't on the dollar menu isn't worth buying.
 

pootTheBox

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 12, 2005
Messages
619
Location
In a Kingdom of Mushrooms, max'n
Just cause Wendy's offers crappy nuggets subsidized by economies of scale
I really appreciated that

I agree with $1-2 tournaments mainly because I truly try as hard as a $5-10 tournament. This may be due to the competitive nature of the tournament format, regardless of an entry fee. I also can't help being bothered by the business attitude of some elite smashers. If you are trying to get elite smashers from OoC then I can understand them wanting the chance to earn the cost of their commute back. But also you hear from many that will unlikely win that they would rather have the money from the venue+entry fee for their commute. Can't please everyone

I will now teleport back to my respective thread
 

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,973
Why is Matt making these chicken nuggets out to be valuable? They're ****ing terrible.
 

blackfox51

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 17, 2008
Messages
72
Location
Austin, Texas
Personally, when I'm presented with a $5 entry fee to enter a tournament, it seems like too much. I know I'm a cheapass, but think of all the Wendy's spicy chicken nuggets you could get? That's 25 nuggets.
On the topic of value, five dollars seriously isn't that much. Just cause Wendy's offers crappy nuggets subsidized by economies of scale doesn't mean everything in life that isn't on the dollar menu isn't worth buying.


10 objections

Anyways, $5 for an entry fee is a lot less than other tourneys, and we gotta have something for the club and winner... 1-2 dollars doesn't really cut it
So ******** to your lowered entry fee haha

And, I'm assuming the meeting is set at this point? I'm just gonna change the OP and what not
 

JOS.fm

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 24, 2008
Messages
363
Location
Austin-UT/San Antonio
I'm guessing better players would rather have the higher entry fee to entice good players from other places to come by the club since they don't have much competition here. I can't really help fund that, however, since I've no reason to; I've got enough competition as it is.
And I personally don't feel any difference between tournament and friendly matches, they're both fun with the exception that one's free . I still can't beat the players who beat me in tournaments even in a friendly setting since there's always a drive for both players to improve (unless it's falcon dittos, then the drive is towards the most knees). and I don't understand the whole argument that participating in tournaments will make you better. you'll obviously encounter different play styles but I usually get three or four matches whereas with matt I can play for hours and try out new tactics. given that there's time for experimentation during friendlies, I would say that this is a more important factor towards improving. I'm ignoring the fact that many players(with dif playstyles) would come due to the tournaments being held, but whenever they're here, I hardly get to play them when I go so whatev.
I'm in favor of matt's suggested entry fee, solely because I don't mind yet attracting out-of-city players until I become better.
 

PhantomX

WarioMan
BRoomer
Joined
Apr 16, 2008
Messages
10,683
Location
Round Rock, Texas
I'm guessing better players would rather have the higher entry fee to entice good players from other places to come by the club since they don't have much competition here. I can't really help fund that, however, since I've no reason to; I've got enough competition as it is.
And I personally don't feel any difference between tournament and friendly matches, they're both fun with the exception that one's free . I still can't beat the players who beat me in tournaments even in a friendly setting since there's always a drive for both players to improve (unless it's falcon dittos, then the drive is towards the most knees). and I don't understand the whole argument that participating in tournaments will make you better. you'll obviously encounter different play styles but I usually get three or four matches whereas with matt I can play for hours and try out new tactics. given that there's time for experimentation during friendlies, I would say that this is a more important factor towards improving. I'm ignoring the fact that many players(with dif playstyles) would come due to the tournaments being held, but whenever they're here, I hardly get to play them when I go so whatev.
I'm in favor of matt's suggested entry fee, solely because I don't mind yet attracting out-of-city players until I become better.
It doesn't matter at low levels of play but it does at higher levels. If you're playing with someone vastly inferior to your skill level it's not helping you in the least, so oftentimes these superior players will just **** around because it doesnt' matter and there's nothing on the line.
 

Noc

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
225
Location
Galveston, TX
It's totally worth putting down a modest amount of money to enter tournaments even when you have a low probability of winning any money back. I see it as purchasing an experience that is challenging, invaluable with respect to improvement, and fun all at the same time.

Tournaments are exciting: you put some money and your reputation on the line and have an opportunity to prove how good you are no matter who you face. You have the wrong attitude if you don't want to enter because you know you can't beat person X or Y. Rankings are not set in stone; upsets do occur. And even if it is truly impossible for you to beat someone, you gain by trying to beat them anyway to see how close you get. Nearly beating somebody that everybody believes to be far above your level in a tournament set can do much for your confidence. You CAN still have fun and learn a lot (indeed perhaps more) if you lose most of your tourney matches.

Friendlies are, besides being really fun, a good way to improve. They definitely allow you to experiment with new tactics and techniques and learn to become proficient with them at your own pace. However, a lot of what it means to be a pro smasher is the ability to relax and play creatively and efficiently even in situations where a lot is on the line. Entering tournaments provides this psychological training that teaches one to forget about the nerves and pressure and play with calm focus and determination to win even if it feels like you're getting *****. It is entirely possible for somebody to **** in friendlies but then perform disappointingly in tournament (I think Lambchops is a good example). So, if you're really interested in getting good at smash, I do not think entering tournaments is optional. You are basically doing yourself a disservice if you do not get out of your comfort zone of only playing friendlies.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
Speaking for myself, I do understand the value of the tournament experience. No offense to Smash Club tournaments though, it just doesn't seem like $5 is worth it. On the other hand, I was more than willing to pay $10 for Phase 6 (and also venue fee, doubles, etc) because it seemed more worth it, though unfortunately I couldn't make it (anyone making plans for Phase 7? I want to go!)

Again, I would definitely enter a tournament for a meager $1-2, or even $3 (someone mentioned earlier about truly trying to win so long as there is SOME money on the line). And also, you have to consider that lowering the entry fee would motivate more players to join, which in a sense counteracts (not completely, but some of) the decrease of money in the pot.

Well, this is just coming from a Chinese cheapass that was raised with a crazy sense of frugality, so I'm probably just a bias son of a *****.
 

Noc

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
225
Location
Galveston, TX
What if we did a $1 round robin melee tournament? Would really help in determining rankings and it's not unlike a bunch of friendlies.

I would like to go to another Phase tournament! But we would have to move our fifth meeting to a different day since Phase 7 is on March 27th.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
$1 round robin sounds awesome. May take a while, but we have an entire meeting to do it! The one we had at Tirno's was 6 people and only took like an hour. If we had like 15 people it'd probably take the whole meeting but should be able to get done if everyone is playing their matches.

And let's move our fifth meeting for Phase 7, haha!
 

Kal

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 21, 2004
Messages
2,973
I don't want to do a ****ing round robin with 15 people. That would be agonizing.
 

BRLNK88

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
955
Location
Austin, Texas
Now that I've seen Darkrain, and he may be coming to a meeting here, I honestly have little motivation to go to Phase 7.
 

Tirno

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 4, 2006
Messages
207
Location
Austin, TX
so i'm a little confused. what do you guys mean by round robin? :confused:
It's a tourney format where each participant plays a set with every other participant. The rankings are then determined by who has the best win-loss ratio at the end. The good part is that nobody gets screwed by a bracket and that everyone gets to play lots of sets. The bad part is that everyone has to play lots of sets. Oh, and no exciting finals sets.
 

BRLNK88

Smash Ace
Joined
Mar 16, 2009
Messages
955
Location
Austin, Texas
And that...is why you fail.
No I don't, there's no point entering Melee, and I don't wanna enter Barlw *ahem*, excuse me, Brawl.
Only if they're guaranteed to have Brawl minus or plus. One might call me unreasonable, but I won't even be playing much smash once I graduate, might as well play the game I have the most fun with.
 

musashi

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
155
Location
monterrey, nuevo leon, mexico
i dont see whats wrong with playing lots n lots of sets lol
and if u guys want finals u can get the 2 players that performed the best and have them play a 3 out of 5 set or something like that heh
 

chaoscontrolASH

Smash Rookie
Joined
Oct 1, 2009
Messages
3
Location
Austin, TX
It's a tourney format where each participant plays a set with every other participant. The rankings are then determined by who has the best win-loss ratio at the end. The good part is that nobody gets screwed by a bracket and that everyone gets to play lots of sets. The bad part is that everyone has to play lots of sets. Oh, and no exciting finals sets.
ah ok. thanks for clearing that up Edgar

by the way guys, i uploaded those pictures i took from the club on facebook haha. yes they were all random shots. but i aint tag anybody. mostly b/c im lazy, and partly b/c i would be only able to tag so many people
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
i dont see whats wrong with playing lots n lots of sets lol
and if u guys want finals u can get the 2 players that performed the best and have them play a 3 out of 5 set or something like that heh
Of course the 2 players that performed the best will be a tie between me and Edgar. Everyone else in the club sucks at melee.
 

Noc

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
225
Location
Galveston, TX
Don't forget about Phase 6 Kal, you met Darkrain and beat him a couple times. :D

Room change: the meeting this Saturday will be in WEL 1.308 (next door to WEL 1.316).
 

Noc

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Dec 30, 2008
Messages
225
Location
Galveston, TX
There will be a $1 venue fee that will be collected at the door (with the ticketing procedure). This will help pay for the cost of the room and snacks/drinks. For any pot tournaments we do, we won't use the ticketing procedure and we won't take a house cut for the club.
 

MT_

Smash Ace
Joined
Nov 8, 2009
Messages
791
Location
Austin, TX
How much does a room cost anyways?

And any Jester (or anyone) people want to smash fest today??
 
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