#UltimateDLCSoMale: The Female DLC Character Discussion

[NurpNurp]

Good morning everyone, and I just happened to finish my meme album. Pick your poison:

THE FEMALE DLC DISCUSSION MEME ALBUM

Spoiler: MEME ALBUM

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More coming up!​

I'm sorry but among the other mentioned problems here, the mention of SNK Heroines feels incredibly out of place. I can understand wanting more diversity, despite me disagreeing with your points overall, but SNK Heroines does kind of objectify it's playable characters, at the very least Terry who has been pointed out for "bimbofication" instead of being an overall genderbend of the original character.

And on top of that, SNK Heroines has an even worse gender ratio than Smash considering all but (maybe) 1 character in that game is female. That's not diversity, it's just inverse representation.

I feel for you, more women in the DLC would be great to see, but the assumption that the lack of women is based on malice is such an intellectually dishonest position I feel the need to come out and criticize it

 

[Deleted member]

That's it, you're all calling me evil now. To think that you would all just...just...call me out amd tell me that what I want is evil...please. I'm just being a mess.

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

What did I miss on this thread?

 

[Deleted member]

What did I miss on this thread?

Nothing...carry on.

 

[Dutch Raikuna]

Nothing...carry on.

I'm still a supporter regardless!

 

[MaddaD]

In just 16 hours from now, truth will be unveiled. The months of silence and hopes will be lifted, and we can all look forward to the next character to be used in Smash montages for the coming weeks.

Hoping FemReps:
2B, Arle, Shantae, Edelgard, Byleth

Hoping NonFemReps:
Quote, Dante, Geno, Any Pokemon Rep, Doom Slayer, Earthworm Jim, Crash

EDIT: Just read the backlog and oh man. This is the beginning of a jRPG antag's story is made

 

[crazybenjamin]

If Sakurai really had something against female fighters then chars like Lucina, Zelda etc. wouldn't make a whole lot of sense.

That was then, this is now.

I hoped impact font memes and basic meme templates would have stayed in 2019

Unpopular opinion: just because they're old doesn't mean they're inherently bad. You wouldn't say that about retro games, why is it different here?

 

[Planet Cool]

Okay, I think some of y'all are starting to exaggerate re: the lack of female newcomers in Ultimate. Inkling, Daisy, Dark Samus, Isabelle and Kazooie (plus Pikachu Libre!) ain't a bad lineup. Is it ideal? Definitely not, but it's better than every other Smash except 3DS/Wii U. We should keep campaigning for more ladies, including standalone female fighters, but please let's not act like Nintendo and/or Sakurai are being malicious.

Anyhoo, maybe it's the PapaGenos talking, but I think Arle Nadja might be coming tomorrow!

Kazooie is only really the secondary part of the duo & not the one you primarily control,

Nope, still not true.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Okay, I think some of y'all are starting to exaggerate re: the lack of female newcomers in Ultimate. Inkling, Daisy, Dark Samus, Isabelle and Kazooie (plus Pikachu Libre!) ain't a bad lineup. Is it ideal? Definitely not, but it's better than every other Smash except 3DS/Wii U. We should keep campaigning for more ladies, including standalone female fighters, but please let's not act like Nintendo and/or Sakurai are being malicious.

Anyhoo, maybe it's the PapaGenos talking, but I think Arle Nadja might be coming tomorrow!



Nope, still not true.

Plus P5 is a game mostly made up of great women so having them in Jokers final smash and the background of his stage is great.

 

[lordvaati]

Okay, I think some of y'all are starting to exaggerate re: the lack of female newcomers in Ultimate. Inkling, Daisy, Dark Samus, Isabelle and Kazooie (plus Pikachu Libre!) ain't a bad lineup. Is it ideal? Definitely not, but it's better than every other Smash except 3DS/Wii U. We should keep campaigning for more ladies, including standalone female fighters, but please let's not act like Nintendo and/or Sakurai are being malicious.

Anyhoo, maybe it's the PapaGenos talking, but I think Arle Nadja might be coming tomorrow!



Nope, still not true.

As an addendum, Isabelle and the Inklings both are the 2 most popular Nintendo characters of the 2010s, so the claims of intentional dodging is odd since they are aiming for the most characters that can resonate with the audience.

 

[scoobymcsnack]

That's it, you're all calling me evil now. To think that you would all just...just...call me out amd tell me that what I want is evil...please. I'm just being a mess.

Nothing wrong with wanting more females bro, that’s cool and you’re free to support whoever you want in the game! People just have an issue with the way your memes portray the developers, who put a lot of time and effort and love into Ultimate.
No one is saying that wanting more females is evil, that would be ridiculous haha

Wanting more females in smash? That’s all cool
Acting as if the developers don’t care about the fans or females or whoever, and acting like you’re entitled to the characters you want? Uncool

 

[Ben Holt]

Lesley seems to have deleted her account.
I feel as if this started over me telling her to brace herself for the possibility of Dante as FP5.
We all know how emotional she is, so let us hope for the best.
Please keep in mind that she lives in Manila and there is volcano danger there now, so that's likely hugely contributing to her stress.
If you're reading this Lesley, we care about you.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Lesley seems to have deleted her account.
I feel as if this started over me telling her to brace herself for the possibility of Dante as FP5.
We all know how emotional she is, so let us hope for the best.
Please keep in mind that she lives in Manila and there is volcano danger there now, so that's likely hugely contributing to her stress.
If you're reading this Lesley, we care about you.

Who's this Lesley? I don't really follow Smashboard as much.

 

[Ben Holt]

Who's this Lesley? I don't really follow Smashboard as much.

She's the deleted member that created this thread.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

She's the deleted member that created this thread.

What happened exactly?

 

[Ben Holt]

What happened exactly?

She absolutely wanted FP5 to be female, and with it looking to be Dante, she lost it.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

She absolutely wanted FP5 to be female, and with it looking to be Dante, she lost it.

Can't say I blame her, considering I too am tired of the sausage fest that is the DLC reps. Especially when some of my wanted characters are female but are likely to be screwed over by other male characters (example is me wanting Edelgard but worries Byleth has more chances due to protagonist/avatar privileges, regardless if Byleth can be both genders).

 

[Deleted member]

Who's this Lesley? I don't really follow Smashboard as much.

She's the creator of this thread. She's one of those folks that holds gender as the only reasonable justification to add a character. Feminist, only plays female characters and has previously stated that she would keep calling Smash a misogynist game if FP5 turns out to be a dude. Her biggest hopeful was KOS-MOS despite never playing Xenosaga (apparently, I only heard this in passing in the newcomer thread) and has kinda made a name for her self in the Newcomer Speculation thread by saying some egregious things. Nothing to bad though I don't think. Been around for less than a year and already had nearly 2k posts.

She's a good kid. Just naive. She's proven that she's open to change her mind on some things like the whole Kazooie debate. Although we came to an understanding that what she and others wanted was a solo female character and not someone associated with a duo like BK, she's was all for giving Kazooie the credit where credit is due towards the end of that mass arguments. The conversations that I had with her are pretty telling to me that she can be a very reasonable person.

All in all, I feel a little guilty about my reaction to her wall of memes. I could have been a little less blunt but I meant what I said. I know that in a few years she will look back on this and maybe other things in retrospect and realize how childish she was acting at times. Nothing wrong with that. I said and did stupid things when I was 18 all the time. I wish her the best though, honestly and if that volcano is a direct threat to her and her family or friends I hope they all stay safe. Mother nature's a *****.

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

She's the creator of this thread. She's one of those folks that holds gender as the only reasonable justification to add a character. Feminist, only plays female characters and has previously stated that she would keep calling Smash a misogynist game if FP5 turns out to be a dude. Her biggest hopeful was KOS-MOS despite never playing Xenosaga (apparently, I only heard this in passing in the newcomer thread) and has kinda made a name for her self in the Newcomer Speculation thread by saying some egregious things. Nothing to bad though I don't think. Been around for less than a year and already had nearly 2k posts.

She's a good kid. Just naive. She's proven that she's open to change her mind on some things like the whole Kazooie debate. Although we came to an understanding that what she and others wanted was a solo female character and not someone associated with a duo like BK, she's was all for giving Kazooie the credit where credit is due towards the end of that mass arguments. The conversations that I had with her are pretty telling to me that she can be a very reasonable person.

All in all, I feel a little guilty about my reaction to her wall of memes. I could have been a little less blunt but I meant what I said. I know that in a few years she will look back on this and maybe other things in retrospect and realize how childish she was acting at times. Nothing wrong with that. I said and did stupid things when I was 18 all the time. I wish her the best though, honestly and if that volcano is a direct threat to her and her family or friends I hope they all stay safe. Mother nature's a *****.

Even as someone who does agree that characters should be fun first before gender: I DO admit I sympathize with her frustration when it comes to female charaters getting the short end of the stick. The gaming community is already so male-focused that the stack is sorely against females from the get go. And I admit if FP5 IS Dante: As much as I think that would be cool, it just means that the entire DLC is nothing but a sausage fest. I will admit now that there are days where I do share her mentality that "Smash is misogynist", "Sakurai doesn't give a damn to female fans", etc. etc.

And while I get more DLC is on the way: Again, the odds are in male characters' favor because they're way more iconic because males are considered "widespread appeal". As someone who has a few female characters in my wishlist (my #1 hope atm is Edelgard, who faces competition from Byleth); it is disheartening when said females have potential to be interesting gameplay-wise, but are shoved aside because males are more iconic to the majority's minds.

 

[MaddaD]

Well damn.

I'm sorry that Lesley is going through what she's going. A volcano is a serious threat that should never been taken lightly, and this likely contributed to her latest replies. Perhaps it's for the best she take a leave for the time being.

That was then, this is now.

So explain this point a bit more. They're not open to any female fighters because the first several were boys? And that's final?

Unpopular opinion: just because they're old doesn't mean they're inherently bad. You wouldn't say that about retro games, why is it different here?

It would help if the memes didn't reek of desperation to prove a personal belief and didn't ultimately contradict themselves by mentioning a series that has even less of a gender balance than Ultimate

Most memes also tend not to be political in nature

 

[Aeon_Shadow]

Well damn.

I'm sorry that Lesley is going through what she's going. A volcano is a serious threat that should never been taken lightly, and this likely contributed to her latest replies. Perhaps it's for the best she take a leave for the time being.


So explain this point a bit more. They're not open to any female fighters because the first several were boys? And that's final?


It would help if the memes didn't reek of desperation to prove a personal belief and didn't ultimately contradict themselves by mentioning a series that has even less of a gender balance than Ultimate

Most memes also tend not to be political in nature

I can attest to that too, since I too am from the Philippines. Hope she is doing well.

 

[crazybenjamin]

So explain this point a bit more. They're not open to any female fighters because the first several were boys? And that's final?

They just seem to care less than they did in the Sm4sh era. Now, some would say that they don't have to care, but that's not the point, I'm just acknowledging that they cared more in the past.

It would help if the memes didn't reek of desperation to prove a personal belief and didn't ultimately contradict themselves by mentioning a series that has even less of a gender balance than Ultimate

Most memes also tend not to be political in nature

Fair enough, but these are separate from my point. The "reek of desperation" part is the main reason why I suggested making my own contribution, but now that she's just...gone, I don't see the point.

Wow. I can't believe Lesley Black Velvet is actually...gone. It all seems so surreal, one minute she's having a discussion, now all I see is "deleted member."

 

[Lacrimosa]

Was the perception the same for Sm4sh DLC?
We had these back then:





(all male, except Corrin but the male outfit is the default)
(genderless)


Bayo was also the last character to be added.
I don't know. Saying that they don't "care" looks like a grudge/resentment/grudge/whateverbadwordfits.

I mean, I get that people want to play female characters and I can see that female players want more female representation. However, I strongly disagree with people saying that they "don't care". This isn't all that strong, however there are way stronger emotions out there and I think it just doesn't fit with the history of Smash when people say that stuff and does a misjustice to Sakurai and his team.

And heck, the last DLC fighter isn't even out, yet. So what's the point of complaining now (and I think it's not even justified even if we get someone like Dante or Master Chief).

 

[Deleted member]

And heck, the last DLC fighter isn't even out, yet. So what's the point of complaining now (and I think it's not even justified even if we get someone like Dante or Master Chief).

And keep in mind too that #5 for the fighters pass isn't even the final DLC character. It's like people forgot that Sakurai himself said that there will be more post-pass. I don't understand why some peoples impressions are that if #5 isn't a female then it's all over.

There's still lots and lots of time. There's still more characters coming.

 

[crazybenjamin]

I don't know. Saying that they don't "care" looks like a grudge/resentment/grudge/whateverbadwordfits.

Sakurai chose Ultimate's newcomers for reasons completely unrelated to their gender, couldn't that be described as him not caring about diversity? (I'm not saying that he has to care about diversity, it's just the reality that sometimes it will take a back seat to other factors.)

 

[Deleted member]

Sakurai chose Ultimate's newcomers for reasons completely unrelated to their gender, couldn't that be described as him not caring about diversity? (I'm not saying that he has to care about diversity, it's just the reality that sometimes it will take a back seat to other factors.)

Sakurai has no obligation to fulfill your agenda. To say that he doesn't care paints him in a negative light and it devalues all the hard work he has put into this game. He obviously cares about this game a lot, but he doesn't care about your politics. Besides, the whole diversity thing is a weird one because there's already diversity in the DLC right now with Joker being a Japanese character and Terry being an American. Or does this not count because they don't have the appropriate skin complexion to accommodate your diversity agenda?

 

[Dinoman96]

It's funny how people complain so much about the female lineup for this game when one does have to consider that we've come a really long way from Brawl, where all we had were:

/

This was it. This was basically our playable female lineup in Smash prior to Smash 4. Just Peach, Samus, Zelda and their alter egos. Oh, and Nana if you used the alts that switched the Climbers around. Could you imagine if this was how things still were today?

Meanwhile, let's look at Ultimate.



(you guys really should make similes for Nana and the female Pikachu/Pichu alts...)

You can also have all three Mii Fighter types be female.

Now that's much better. Still not exactly ideal? Yes, but I'd say they did make some noticable effort to expand the female roster since the Brawl era.

 

[crazybenjamin]

Sakurai has no obligation to fulfill your agenda. To say that he doesn't care paints him in a negative light and it devalues all the hard work he has put into this game. He obviously cares about this game a lot, but he doesn't care about your politics. Besides, the whole diversity thing is a weird one because there's already diversity in the DLC right now with Joker being a Japanese character and Terry being an American. Or does this not count because they don't have the appropriate skin complexion to accommodate your diversity agenda?

I specifically said that he doesn't have to care about "my politics." There are very good reasons why one might not care.

 

[Hadokeyblade]

Sakurai has no obligation to fulfill your agenda. To say that he doesn't care paints him in a negative light and it devalues all the hard work he has put into this game. He obviously cares about this game a lot, but he doesn't care about your politics. Besides, the whole diversity thing is a weird one because there's already diversity in the DLC right now with Joker being a Japanese character and Terry being an American. Or does this not count because they don't have the appropriate skin complexion to accommodate your diversity agenda?

I've been told Terry doesn't count specifically because he's white and white people aren't diverse.

(don't take this too seriously I'm just making fun of people who do think this way)

 

[Deleted member]

Hearing that news about the Volcano in Lesley's area scares me. I hope nothing bad happens to her or anyone else in her area.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Hearing that news about the Volcano in Lesley's area scares me. I hope nothing bad happens to her or anyone else in her area.

Yeah I heard. I hope she's safe.

I know my brother and sister-in-law are currently in Thailand so they should be fine as they're far away from it but still praying Lesley's okay.

 

[Neoxon]

Well, we got a woman as yet another alternate costume. Byleth, as I feared, is male by default.

 

[Deleted member]

Well, we got a woman as yet another alternate costume. Byleth, as I feared, is male by default.

Sucks to be you I guess.

I'm neither excited or upset. I'm already over it. As long as they're fun, then I have no objections.

 

[SneakyLink]

While saddening, we must rejoice. For we now have 6 DLC slots inbound!

 

[Ben Holt]

We did it. FP5 has a female alt.

 

[Dr. Jojo Phantasma]

Yep, we got our female finally. Just like Corrin I will use the female variant 98% of the time.

 

[TheYungLink]

We finally have a female character. They are an alternate variation of a character who is male on the CSS by default, but let's not split hairs: Byleth is female as well as male, so they count. The thread owner got what they wanted.

This thread was founded on the predication that we get at least one female character, and we finally did. Yes, it would have been nice to have a fully female character with no male alts or anything like that, and I can get being miffed that male Byleth is the default, but I think the chance for an inclusion of a fully female character has gone up by a bunch. I would not be surprised if we got at least one more female playable character in the Fighter's Pass 2.

I, for one, will keep rooting for such a fully female character. The sentiments of this thread will not be forgotten by me, at least, and I hope to see more female characters that women can identify with to help them better enjoy Super Smash Bros.

Edit: I wish Lesley was here to see this.

 

[Neoxon]

Credit where it's due, a female alternate costume is better than none at all. But my primary focus was towards characters who are either exclusively female or are female by default. I'm not gonna stop my push.

 

[Deleted member]

Heck yeah, we got a female character in the Fighter Pass.

Hopefully the second one brings up some more.

And yes, too bad that Lesley left since I wanted to see her reactions.

 

[MaddaD]

It's Byleth, but not the way I would have wanted...

And yes, too bad that Lesley left since I wanted to see her reactions.

Likely not too happy since Byleth isn't female only