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[Michael the Spikester]

That said though you're probably more likely to see snow falling in Hell then you'll ever see Mortal Kombat in Smash.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

That said though you're probably more likely to see snow falling in Hell then you'll ever see Mortal Kombat in Smash.

10 years ago “you’re more likely to see snow falling in hell than a third party character in Smash” “Yeah but Solid Snake”

 

[staindgrey]

Regarding Scorpion/Sub-Zero debate, you guys are forgetting one major factor. The owner of the IP has to okay it.

I don't think Ed Boon would be okay with copying and pasting a moveset onto both Scorpion and Sub-Zero after spending 11 games making them about as different as possible. They play absolutely nothing alike and don't even share animations anymore. If one of them got in, the likeliness of the other getting an echo, IMO, is nil.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Their ABILITIES are different. But their MOVES are similar enough to warrant an echo. It’s the difference between a fire effect and a freeze effect on contact.

Sub-Zero can throw spears? Sub-Zero can breathe hellfire?

Pretty sure that would be Scorpion's Neutral B and Toasty being his Final Smash.

At most I could see Sub-Zero being an semi-clone. Nothing more though.

 

[Shroob]

Regarding Scorpion/Sub-Zero debate, you guys are forgetting one major factor. The owner of the IP has to okay it.

I don't think Ed Boon would be okay with copying and pasting a moveset onto both Scorpion and Sub-Zero after spending 11 games making them about as different as possible. They play absolutely nothing alike and don't even share animations anymore. If one of them got in, the likeliness of the other getting an echo, IMO, is nil.

This.


Also, I hate it when pairs get into one game, but half the pair is missing.


Like, Ryu and Ken in Smash 4. Hell, Sakurai knew this and even put in a Ken trophy just because he knew "If you have Ryu, you NEED Ken." If you have Scorpion, you need Sub.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

10 years ago “you’re more likely to see snow falling in hell than a third party character in Smash” “Yeah but Solid Snake”

Tis too bad Mortal Kombat ain't that popular in Japan to begin with which hurts his chances drastically.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Sub-Zero can throw spears? Sub-Zero can breathe hellfire?

Pretty sure that would be Scorpion's Neutral B and Toasty being his Final Smash.

At most I could see Sub-Zero being an semi-clone. Nothing more though.

Chrom has Ike’s up b despite being a Roy echo. And A lot of echos have different final smashes.

 

[Polan]

Tis too bad Mortal Kombat ain't that popular in Japan to begin with which hurts his chances drastically.

if erdrick gets in plz let this argument die in a grease fire

 

[Shroob]

if erdrick gets in plz let this argument die in a grease fire

I mean, that would only bolster it. Dragon Quest is huge in Japan. It won't die until a Western 3rd party gets in.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Chrom has Ike’s up b despite being a Roy echo. And A lot of echos have different final smashes.

I think the issue is that Scorpion and Sub Zero have entirely different skill sets.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Regarding Scorpion/Sub-Zero debate, you guys are forgetting one major factor. The owner of the IP has to okay it.

I don't think Ed Boon would be okay with copying and pasting a moveset onto both Scorpion and Sub-Zero after spending 11 games making them about as different as possible. They play absolutely nothing alike and don't even share animations anymore. If one of them got in, the likeliness of the other getting an echo, IMO, is nil.

The same is true of Ryu and Ken. Capcom didn’t object to that.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Chrom has Ike’s up b despite being a Roy echo. And A lot of echos have different final smashes.

Chances are Scorpion will have two moves as well as a Final Smash that are different from Sub-Zero rendering him a semi-clone at most.

 

[staindgrey]

Tis too bad Mortal Kombat ain't that popular in Japan to begin with which hurts his chances drastically.

On the scale of fighting game communities it's not that popular in the West either. It sells, but Netherrealm games lose steam a lot more quickly than other fighters. Almost all of their games are one-and-dones at EVO, and Injustice 2 had an absolutely awful turnout this past year.

Like, I love the series, and it's my third favorite fighter by a slim margin. But I don't pretend to think its fighting game community is all that robust. Sadly.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

On the scale of fighting game communities it's not that popular in the West either. It sells, but Netherrealm games lose steam a lot more quickly than other fighters. Almost all of their games are one-and-dones at EVO, and Injustice 2 had an absolutely awful turnout this past year.

Like, I love the series, and it's my third favorite fighter by a slim margin. But I don't pretend to think its fighting game community is all that robust. Sadly.

Yep can't see it now.

Doesn't help too they're owned by Warner Bros. which knowing them won't be up for negotiations.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

On the scale of fighting game communities it's not that popular in the West either. It sells, but Netherrealm games lose steam a lot more quickly than other fighters. Almost all of their games are one-and-dones at EVO, and Injustice 2 had an absolutely awful turnout this past year.

Like, I love the series, and it's my third favorite fighter by a slim margin. But I don't pretend to think its fighting game community is all that robust. Sadly.

I go back and play the other games all the time. Why are people so wrapped up in the idea that a fighting game needs to have a tournament seen to have a community. I’m a fan of the franchise, not a single specific title.

 

[Shroob]

We're sooner to see Steve Minecraft and Doom McShootsalot in Smash than the multicolor murderous ninjas I feel if we're talking 3rd parties.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

We're sooner to see Steve Minecraft and Doom McShootsalot in Smash than the multicolor murderous ninjas I feel if we're talking 3rd parties.

Steve at least has a huge chance and at this point almost guaranteed given Minecraft's legacy.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Yep can't see it now.

Doesn't help too they're owned by Warner Bros. which knowing them won't be up for negotiations.

Why is this an argument for EVERY third party character. It’s brought up so often for so many different ones that I almost believe it means nothing. Plus, if they’re hard to negotiate with, then how did LEGO Dimensions happen?

 

[PsySmasher]

We're sooner to see Steve Minecraft and Doom McShootsalot in Smash than the multicolor murderous ninjas I feel if we're talking 3rd parties.

Yeah... as much as despise Steve, I think he does have a better shot over Scorpion (or most 3rd party characters from companies not in Smash already).

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Steve at least has a huge chance and at this point almost guaranteed given Minecraft's legacy.

No one is guaranteed.

 

[Wademan94]

Why is this an argument for EVERY third party character. It’s brought up so often for so many different ones that I almost believe it means nothing. Plus, if they’re hard to negotiate with, then how did LEGO Dimensions happen?

Cause WB was responsible for a good majority of that game?

 

[Shroob]

Why is this an argument for EVERY third party character. It’s brought up so often for so many different ones that I almost believe it means nothing. Plus, if they’re hard to negotiate with, then how did LEGO Dimensions happen?

Because until it happens, there's zero precedence for a Western 3rd party character to be playable. The closest we've had is Shovel Knight, and looking at fan ballots, he usually scored rather well.


WHEN it happens, then we can talk.

 

[staindgrey]

The same is true of Ryu and Ken. Capcom didn’t object to that.

Ryu and Ken are FAR more similar than Scorpion and Sub-Zero have ever been.

Ryu and Ken were made to be bros, mirrors of one another. Their changes are minute while the core concept remains the same for each: they're shotos, taught by the same master. A literal player one and player two.

Sub-Zero and Scorpion are sworn enemies from rival clans who only shared some moves in the first few MK games because all the ninjas shared those moves. In MKX/MK9, nothing about them is even remotely similar. You can't give Scorpion an ice counter and you can't give Sub-Zero a "GET OVER HERE!" chain, yet you can't properly represent either without each. Ken and Ryu both have shoryuken, hadoken and tatsumaki. The differences between those moves are minor and aesthetic throughout most of their history.

It's really comparing apples and oranges. But I'm saying that, while one could justify creating a compromise character to represent both Scorpion and Sub-Zero technically, I seriously doubt Ed Boon would sign off on that. It's basically neutering the uniqueness of each character that's been there since MK1.

 

[Deleted member]

On the scale of fighting game communities it's not that popular in the West either. It sells, but Netherrealm games lose steam a lot more quickly than other fighters. Almost all of their games are one-and-dones at EVO, and Injustice 2 had an absolutely awful turnout this past year.

Like, I love the series, and it's my third favorite fighter by a slim margin. But I don't pretend to think its fighting game community is all that robust. Sadly.

The problem with Neatherrealm games in the FGC is that one comes out every two years. They don't stick with a single game for years unlike every other FG dev, and as a result they have good turnout in the beginning but drop off hard, since people don't want to invest time into a game that will be replaced next year.
Casually though, they always do great, and MK has a legacy matching Street Fighter's. Besides, I don't think Nintendo is going to turn down Scorpion/Sub because of MKs lack of FGC pressence.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Because until it happens, there's zero precedence for a Western 3rd party character to be playable. The closest we've had is Shovel Knight, and looking at fan ballots, he usually scored rather well.


WHEN it happens, then we can talk.

Arg. This again. Just because it’s never happened before doesn’t mean it never will.

I’m getting tired of these made up rules.

 

[Polan]

Because until it happens, there's zero precedence for a Western 3rd party character to be playable. The closest we've had is Shovel Knight, and looking at fan ballots, he usually scored rather well.


WHEN it happens, then we can talk.

Steve at least has a huge chance and at this point almost guaranteed given Minecraft's legacy.

see this is why smash speculators wind up eating **** everytime a new character is revealed. nothing is guaranteed but nothing is off the table.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

That said though. I don't see Scorpion getting in tbh.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Cause WB was responsible for a good majority of that game?

That's literally her argument, WB made the negotiations for all the franchises included in that game meaning the argument that "WB are hard to negotiate with" is unfounded. It isn't even like Final Fantasy which has a plethora of legal stuff with Nomura and Uematsu owning rights to stuff that Nintendo doesn't care about extra negotiations with

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Every time I bring up a character I want I always regret it. Every time I say I don’t want a character someone else brought up I regret it. There is no win in this for anyone.

 

[Wademan94]

Arg. This again. Just because it’s never happened before doesn’t mean it never will.

I’m getting tired of these made up rules.

It just feels a bit harder to justify considering it hasn’t happened yet.

 

[Shroob]

Arg. This again. Just because it’s never happened before doesn’t mean it never will.

I’m getting tired of these made up rules.

see this is why smash speculators wind up eating **** everytime a new character is revealed. nothing is guaranteed but nothing is off the table.

Of course they're made up, but at the same time, we shouldn't shoot for the stars, because we'll just crash and burn.


For instance, the entirety of the Geno fanbase.


I like to keep speculation 'reasonable' down to realistic levels, that way when something happens that defies my expectations, I'm shocked, surprised and excited.

 

[staindgrey]

The problem with Neatherrealm games in the FGC is that one comes out every two years. They don't stick with a single game for years unlike every other FG dev, and as a result they have good turnout in the beginning but drop off hard, since people don't want to invest time into a game that will be replaced next year.
Casually though, they always do great, and MK has a legacy matching Street Fighter's. Besides, I don't think Nintendo is going to turn down Scorpion/Sub because of MKs lack of FGC pressence.

Oh, I'm by no means saying Nintendo would balk at MK because of its meager FGC. I was just adding to his point that MK likely doesn't have a ton of fan demand in the East. By metrics of how long their games last in the public eye and in the tournament scene, even in the West it's not a must-have series.

But it clearly sells. WB has invested a lot of money into Netherrealm and they make great products. I'm psyched for MK11.

 

[SnakeFighter64]

This is why I just want to know every Fighter right away. I’m sick of fighting with people on the internet over Character inclusions. In any fighting game.

 

[Michael the Spikester]

Agumon, Banjo-Kazooie, Byleth/Edelgard, Geno, Erdrick, Sora.

Anyone else I'm missing who could be "Brave"?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Agumon, Banjo-Kazooie, Byleth/Edelgard, Geno, Erdrick, Sora.

Anyone else I'm missing who could be "Brave"?

Yo mamma




You walked right into that one.

 

[Cutie Gwen]

Of course they're made up, but at the same time, we shouldn't shoot for the stars, because we'll just crash and burn.


For instance, the entirety of the Geno fanbase.


I like to keep speculation 'reasonable' down to realistic levels, that way when something happens that defies my expectations, I'm shocked, surprised and excited.

While I do think it's good for people to keep expectations low, there's 2 problems here.
1: 'reasonable' is entirely subjective and influenced by bias of whoever's using the term
2: This is purely hypothetical yet SnakeFighter's getting shot down with "Nuh uh not realistic", meaning her suggestion is immediately shot down without anyone really thinking about it, which was the reason she brought it up. This is the same issue with other characters in the Smash bubble "Hey wouldn't X be cool?" "Nope, not going to happen, Y's likelier"

 

[Deleted member]

Agumon, Banjo-Kazooie, Byleth/Edelgard, Geno, Erdrick, Sora.

Anyone else I'm missing who could be "Brave"?

Braviary.

I mean, if a lot of those half-assed arguments count for a number of those characters, no one can say **** about it being Braviary.

 

[Wademan94]

That's literally her argument, WB made the negotiations for all the franchises included in that game meaning the argument that "WB are hard to negotiate with" is unfounded. It isn't even like Final Fantasy which has a plethora of legal stuff with Nomura and Uematsu owning rights to stuff that Nintendo doesn't care about extra negotiations with

What I meant to get across is that I don’t know how hard they are to negotiate with involving stuff outside their domain. Dimensions was published by WB Games and they were more heavily invested in its development as opposed to licensing out their properties to another company.

 

[staindgrey]

Every time I bring up a character I want I always regret it. Every time I say I don’t want a character someone else brought up I regret it. There is no win in this for anyone.

You alright bud?

 

[SnakeFighter64]

Agumon, Banjo-Kazooie, Byleth/Edelgard, Geno, Erdrick, Sora.

Anyone else I'm missing who could be "Brave"?

Why would Edelgard be Toon Link’s height?