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[Deleted member]

After playing Joker a bit here's my thoughts (tagging @Swamp Sensei since he was interested):

• Definite main/secondary material. At the very least he's someone I want to get good with
• He's strong, but will likely place around high-mid tier.
• The Rebellion Gauge needs to award offensive play. As of right now it mainly fills from getting hit, and I believe that's Joker's largest problem.
• Furthermore, allowing Arsene to be activated (similar to how you can use Persona attacks in the game) would go a long way alongside the aforementioned change.

Overall I really like him. If I get better with him he could definitely be primary main material.

These are pretty much my thoughts on him. TBH I love Joker and will use him alongside Inkling pretty frequently, but being able to control when Arsene is summoned and having better ways to fill the gauge would be very nice. Allowing the stick to control the gun dodges even when tap jump is off would also be super helpful. A small buff to his base form damage output would also be welcome.

 

[SneakyLink]

You seem to be mixing up a persona with a stand.
Personas are basically just JRPG stat numbers, very rarely will they ever have some sort of gimmick ability tied to them.

(But I guess the Demi-fiend would be a physical build)

Like I said... never played a Persona game before and really unable too.

 

[KarneraMythos]

I might try and hop on later for some matches so I can understand Joker a little better. I want to learn him so I can use him in matches. He's a lot of fun from what I've done, but I agree with you guys regarding Arsene in his move-set. There's a strange Catch-22 with him where either you're meant to get knocked around and summon Arsene at some point, or you do so well without him in the entire match that you don't get to use him in your move-set at all.

 

[Deleted member]

Do we have an arena going? If so, could I have the ID?

 

[Deleted member]

Did the arena crash?

 

[Idon]

What ways would you guys suggest getting better?

Tagging Idon Kingslime304 Alternis since you guys are pretty good.

With Joker? God knows what's optimal with him, especially since he's only 24 hours old.

In general? Fundamentals fundamentals. You can always work on things like spacing, reading, mobility, tech-chasing, etc etc and those will generally carry over.

Did the arena crash?

Nope.

Do we have an arena going? If so, could I have the ID?

G1KSM
7890

 

[SlickWylde]

I'm down to whoop some noobs in an arena.

 

[Deleted member]

Idon
Is the arena still open?

 

[Deleted member]

What ways would you guys suggest getting better?

Tagging Idon Kingslime304 Alternis since you guys are pretty good.

whenever you play the vidya, focus on whenever you get hit and think about why you got hit

were you punished, did you lose a 50/50, did you **** up a jablock, etc etc etc

i find laser-focusing not on your mistakes but rather on the cause of your mistakes helps a lot

also i'm gonna take a crazy, wild, bonkers guess here and assume that you're a joker main

in which case practice his edgeguarding and ledgetrapping because he's got crazy edgeguarding potential and a pretty good ledge game

 

[Cyn]

Did the arena crash?

The most common question in recent memory~

 

[Deleted member]

G1KSM
7890

Thanks, but the arena’s full unfortunately. (

 

[Idon]

I might try and hop on later for some matches so I can understand Joker a little better. I want to learn him so I can use him in matches. He's a lot of fun from what I've done, but I agree with you guys regarding Arsene in his move-set. There's a strange Catch-22 with him where either you're meant to get knocked around and summon Arsene at some point, or you do so well without him in the entire match that you don't get to use him in your move-set at all.

Yeah Sakurai clearly designed you to be taking hits with rebel's guard but the issue is...

It's a ****ing counter. And good players don't get hit with counters.
In fact, bad players don't get hit with counters because they miss.

And if you don't proc your counter, the endlag is bad enough for a raw fsmash to ruin your day.
Aaaaagh, Joker's pretty fun but the fact his big killing power is tied to that is painful.

 

[Deleted member]

I think the main problem I have with the rebellion gauge is that it encourages you to play the game more like Smash 4 and be defensive in a game that promotes aggressive play more.

 

[Deleted member]

What ways would you guys suggest getting better?

Tagging Idon Kingslime304 Alternis since you guys are pretty good.

My advice on getting good is constantly using training mode, and learning the character.
Find some neat tricks and combos with the character, and ways to trick opponents into smash attacks.

 

[Pyra]

View attachment 210478
They all place high for me with the exception of Sheba. She needs to go to the time-out corner. Forever.

I uh...

Haha yeah

Sheba

She kinda makes me feel like some of the users here do

 

[SlickWylde]

Thanks, but the arena’s full unfortunately. (

I can start a second arena if you're interested.

 

[Deleted member]

SlickWylde
Who is that in your avatar?

 

[Kingslime304]

Missles are sort of versatile in that it can be used as a zoning tool, a way to bait jumps, and as a whiff punisher. I use it at the start for the first two reasons so I can use my fair or nair to punish their jump.

 

[Deleted member]

Uggh, I will keep on arguing that Joker needs more kill moves.
Only Joker's smash attacks are kill moves, and it can get very frustrating when you need a kill, but your opponent knows that you are hungry for a smash attack.

 

[SlickWylde]

SlickWylde
Who is that in your avatar?

It's a picture of me from like 7 years and 30 lbs ago lol

 

[Alternis]

What ways would you guys suggest getting better?

Tagging Idon Kingslime304 Alternis since you guys are pretty good.

I'd say just from watching rea quick that you should consider spacing on your moves and that's all I got right now. I'll admit I wasn't really paying attention to matches I wasn't in. I'll keep an eye out for your play, though.

 

[Noipoi]

It's a picture of me from like 7 years and 30 lbs ago lol

You're a cowboy!?

 

[Will]

trying to explain :

It's a picture of me from like 7 years and 30 lbs ago lol

 

[DaybreakHorizon]

My garbage internet crapped out (I forgot my ethernet adapter at home ). Guess that's it for me for the night.

I'll be going home soon (week and a half) to play more matches, so I'll be more active then. Thanks for the tips everyone!

 

[Idon]

Uggh, I will keep on arguing that Joker needs more kill moves.
Only Joker's smash attacks are kill moves, and it can get very frustrating when you need a kill, but your opponent knows that you are hungry for a smash attack.

Joker's fair works well on ledge, especially with arsene.

Issue is,ya gotta be Arsened

 

[Kingslime304]

What’s you favorite aerial to throw out? Mine would be my Fair, and Up-air for Dark Samus since I usually catch people with fair, and I usually like juggling a lot.

 

[Deleted member]

-Wants to change music
-Forgets about the line thing

Seriously, I am not happy.
Also I am back on my bed.

 

[SlickWylde]

You're a cowboy!?

Slick Wylde is a character I made up a long time ago, he exists in multiple times/dimensions. Usually he's a noir style detective, but yeah this picture is more of a cowboy version lol

Will Yes, exactly!!

 

[Deleted member]

I can start a second arena if you're interested.

I appreciate it, but I think I’ll test out Joker on quickplay for a bit.

 

[Deleted member]

It's a picture of me from like 7 years and 30 lbs ago lol

That is an impressive picture of yourself. I like the shading and the cowboy outfit, as well as the grumpy face that fits the theme.

 

[PsySmasher]

Phew... finally got my 1300+ word essay on Net Neutrality done.

Let's see if there are any arenas open.

*Sees that there's one open*

Oh maybe since it's late, it'll be pretty emp...

*Arena is full*

...

You've got to be kidding me.

 

[Alternis]

What’s you favorite aerial to throw out? Mine would be my Fair, and Up-air for Dark Samus since I usually catch people with fair, and I usually like juggling a lot.

With Yoshi, all his aerials are great. I can't choose just one.

Incineroar's is either fair or nair for me. Both are good for quick hits.

With Joker, I'd say nair. It's so nice to land.

Btw, I swear you proved how Samus fair will give anyone cancer.

 

[Idon]

Phew... finally got my 1300+ word essay on Net Neutrality done.

Let's see if there are any arenas open.

*Sees that there's one open*

Oh maybe since it's late, it'll be pretty emp...

*Arena is full*

...

You've got to be kidding me.

Just left, man.
Go wild.

 

[Zinith]

With Yoshi, all his aerials are great. I can't choose just one.

There is no "favorite" aerial for a Yoshi main

 

[Deleted member]

Yeah Sakurai clearly designed you to be taking hits with rebel's guard but the issue is...

It's a ****ing counter. And good players don't get hit with counters.
In fact, bad players don't get hit with counters because they miss.

And if you don't proc your counter, the endlag is bad enough for a raw fsmash to ruin your day.
Aaaaagh, Joker's pretty fun but the fact his big killing power is tied to that is painful.

Ah yes. I remember in Persona 5 where Joker had to get the **** beat out of him before he could use his personas. Faithful as always, Sakurai.

 

[osby]

What’s you favorite aerial to throw out? Mine would be my Fair, and Up-air for Dark Samus since I usually catch people with fair, and I usually like juggling a lot.

Palutena neutral aerial. Yes, I'm that guy.

 

[PsySmasher]

What’s you favorite aerial to throw out? Mine would be my Fair, and Up-air for Dark Samus since I usually catch people with fair, and I usually like juggling a lot.

Let's see...

- NAir
- All of them
- FAir, Bair
- NAir (duh)
- Nair, FAir, BAir

 

[Idon]

Ah yes. I remember in Persona 5 where Joker had to get the **** beat out of him before he could use his personas. Faithful as always, Sakurai.

See, that's the thing.
I don't think Rebel's Guard is a representation of Joker's gameplay within Persona. If it was, it'd probably be something more akin to using magic charge or whatever.

I think it's more representative of the story themes in Persona 5, where you're supposed to be an underdog who endures the beatdown, grows stronger for it, and then retaliates using your newfound strength. At least that's what I think Sakurai was going with Joker's moveset.

Of course, story themes and gameplay themes are sometimes... they don't mesh as well together as they should.

 

[SlickWylde]

That is an impressive picture of yourself. I like the shading and the cowboy outfit, as well as the grumpy face that fits the theme.

Haha thank you! :D I was trying to actually make it a whole thing (Even made a first episode of a failed youtube "series" lol - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fNT...RlqeYc71mGPByxjuhr6uwhT2ueF9UMicpAo31jVKbdjbM )

Also I'm in the arena, and I decided to go with Random, so I imagine it's going to give me someone I suck with lol.

 

[Deleted member]

****ing hell why am I still alive