• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

Social Ultimate Social Thread: Under Construction. Be Back Soon!

What are you most excited about for E3?


  • Total voters
    107
Status
Not open for further replies.

CaptainAmerica

Smash Master
Joined
Aug 21, 2014
Messages
3,089
Location
New York
NNID
TomOfHyrule
Ok, should I pick the original Twilight Princess version for Wii, or the HD remaster on Wii U?

I found more copies of the Wii version around the island than the Wii U one, so I would like to know if the Wii U version has good new content or works well enough to take it over the original.

Mostly because there are remasters who end up playing worse than the original game (the Silent Hill remasters for PS3, for example).
Get the Wii U. It has Link with the correct handedness.

lol seriously though, the WiiU one is in HD and has the new amiibo functionality. The Wolf Link amiibo gives you an extra set of trials that you can only do in Wolf form. I'm reasonably sure they also added motion aiming controls for the WiiU as well.

Twilight Princess was probably my favorite Zelda game overall, but it's really hard to compare any of them to BotW. Still, the Wii is the only version I didn't get - I had the original GameCube one and then I got the WiiU remaster.
 

Pakky

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 19, 2014
Messages
7,547
Chain Chomp is an AT though.
True but what matters now may always matter in the future.

We're having "why this clone has the same moveset with the fighter they're based on?" convo like it's still freaking 2014.
I wasn't saying that. I was saying it strange that they chose to represent him with a thing he barely uses.

That's like showing :ultlucina: with a spear but still keeping her the exact same.

Its visually confusing.

That's not meant to offend it just genuinely makes no sense.

But agree to disagree.
 
Last edited:

Diem

Agent of Phaaze
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
1,744
Location
Agon Wastes
NNID
Luminoth_Prime
Man... I still need to play Wind Waker...

Just for curiosity, if you had to rank it among the other 3D Zeldas, where would you place it?
Wind Waker was my first Zelda game ever. It holds a special place in my heart because of that. Still, I manage to hold it to a more critical lens than some people. Many people say that your first Zelda game is destined to be your favorite, but Wind Waker probably isn't in my top 3 or 4.

It has amazing art direction. One the things people gush about most with the game is that its graphics still hold up today and will forever, and they're not wrong. With the HD rerelease on Wii U (which is only $20), that's now certain. It's a gorgeous game that's full of personality in almost every aspect of its presentation. It's no wonder that Nintendo still uses its art style in many of their spinoff games.

Sailing is fun, especially with the Swift Sail in the HD version. There's enough to come across while sailing from Point A to Point B to keep it from being boring. There's a good amount to explore and discover, though by today's standards there's not much. Talking to every single fish for every single tile of the map to fill it out is tedious, though.

However, the world is quite empty due to the limited nature of the GameCube and technology at that point. I feel like the core ideas of Wind Waker would be better executed today with the kind of technology used to bring Breath of the Wild to life, creating a much more dynamic and interesting ocean to explore, rather than a firm grid. It was fascinating and impressive for its time, and is still good fun today, but I wouldn't say it's anything extraordinary.

They also pad out a good chunk of the islands with these reefs, Fairy islands, and the triangle islands that are just the same thing but with minimal variation, leaving a good fraction of the map space as deadzones with no reason at all to revisit unless you're a completionist.

As for the story, the characters and presentation are all fairly good. Certainly a step up from Ocarina of Time (though that's not a high bar). The beginning is really strong, and the ending is climactic as hell, though there are parts throughout the middle where things get pretty slow and unfocused, particularly after you get the Master Sword. That was the part of the game that I dropped off on back when I first played it, and didn't go back and finish it until some time later. The game definitely picks up at the very end, though, so it's worth it just to see that.

People gush about Ganondorf having so much characterization in this game, but... there's really only two lines/moments where he displays said characterization, and otherwise he's nothing special, so I'm constantly baffled by how people act like he has as much depth as Thanos from Infinity War or something.

Which is an issue with the discussion surrounding the game, in my opinion. Back when it was revealed/came out, there was a lot of cynicism about the game, since the previous games were OoT/Majora's Mask, there was the Spaceworld demo showing a realistic Ganondorf and Link swordfight, and everyone wanted that style of Zelda. Wind Waker was the polar opposite, so it wasn't too well-received back then. Nowadays, no one criticizes it for that reason, and almost everyone agrees that it's a fantastic game, as most Zelda games are, but some people blow it up to be this perfect, amazing gem, leading them to exaggerate Ganondorf's (still unprecedented) characterization, among other things.

The game is unfinished. Majora's Mask got away with four dungeons because it was developed in like 18 months on a dare, but Wind Waker only has 6. There were supposed to be more, but they were cut, which is why there's only two dungeons in the beginning and two regular dungeons in the second half of the game, as opposed to the typical three. In the original version, this was made worse by the Triforce search at the end that was just a really grueling fetch quest. It's cut down and revised in the HD version, at least, but compared to Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, the game is rather lacking in core content.

The combat also isn't a substantial upgrade from its predecessors. It adds a new "parry attack" feature where if you wait for your enemy to strike, you'll get a prompt to press the A button and automatically roll around or jump over them and land an attack. It's fun to use, but completely automatic, so it doesn't really add any depth. It's a precursor to the Hidden Skills found in Twilight Princess, or the timed dodge attack in Breath of the Wild, but nothing too remarkable. What is worthy of note is how music notes play for each hit during combat in a subtle way that makes fights a bit more dramatic, which is something no other game has done to my knowledge.

Overall, it's definitely a great game and worth a playthrough. But many people overhype it too much, perhaps to compensate for the unfair criticisms it got back in the day. I still go back and replay it every now and then, like I do all Zelda games. If you like the other Zelda games, you'll enjoy this one, too.

For reference, here's my personal Top 3 3D Zelda games:

1. Twilight Princess
2. Majora's Mask
3. Breath of the Wild

I can't tell whether I like Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker more, hence why I cut it off at 3, since I'm at least certain in my ranking of those. I still haven't really played Skyward Sword, though from what I have played and what I've heard from others, I don't think it'd shake up my list any.
 

Gyrom8

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
2,795
Location
over dere
Switch FC
SW-4844-4242-3130
View attachment 193195
I do not use Final Smashes very often, but still.

Chain Chomp is an AT though.

Speaking of Mario Enemies, I am trying to remember all types of Shy guys.
Red Shy Guy, Blue Shy Guy, Big Red Shy Guy, Big Blue Shy Guy, Green Shy Guy, Dark Blue Shy Guy, Red Snifit, Blue Snifit, Black Snifit, Black Shy Guy, Pink Shy Guy, Orange Shy Guy, Yellow Shy Guy, Purple Shy Guy, Teal Shy Guy, Boom Guy, Elite Boom Guy, Fly Guy, Ghoul Guy, Boo Guy and Wind-Up Shy Guy.
There's also Spear Guys and Anti Guys (though the last are technically Black Shy Guys I guess)
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Wind Waker was my first Zelda game ever. It holds a special place in my heart because of that. Still, I manage to hold it to a more critical lens than some people. Many people say that your first Zelda game is destined to be your favorite, but Wind Waker probably isn't in my top 3 or 4.

It has amazing art direction. One the things people gush about most with the game is that its graphics still hold up today and will forever, and they're not wrong. With the HD rerelease on Wii U (which is only $20), that's now certain. It's a gorgeous game that's full of personality in almost every aspect of its presentation. It's no wonder that Nintendo still uses its art style in many of their spinoff games.

Sailing is fun, especially with the Swift Sail in the HD version. There's enough to come across while sailing from Point A to Point B to keep it from being boring. There's a good amount to explore and discover, though by today's standards there's not much. Talking to every single fish for every single tile of the map to fill it out is tedious, though.

However, the world is quite empty due to the limited nature of the GameCube and technology at that point. I feel like the core ideas of Wind Waker would be better executed today with the kind of technology used to bring Breath of the Wild to life, creating a much more dynamic and interesting ocean to explore, rather than a firm grid. It was fascinating and impressive for its time, and is still good fun today, but I wouldn't say it's anything extraordinary.

They also pad out a good chunk of the islands with these reefs, Fairy islands, and the triangle islands that are just the same thing but with minimal variation, leaving a good fraction of the map space as deadzones with no reason at all to revisit unless you're a completionist.

As for the story, the characters and presentation are all fairly good. Certainly a step up from Ocarina of Time (though that's not a high bar). The beginning is really strong, and the ending is climactic as hell, though there are parts throughout the middle where things get pretty slow and unfocused, particularly after you get the Master Sword. That was the part of the game that I dropped off on back when I first played it, and didn't go back and finish it until some time later. The game definitely picks up at the very end, though, so it's worth it just to see that.

People gush about Ganondorf having so much characterization in this game, but... there's really only two lines/moments where he displays said characterization, and otherwise he's nothing special, so I'm constantly baffled by how people act like he has as much depth as Thanos from Infinity War or something.

Which is an issue with the discussion surrounding the game, in my opinion. Back when it was revealed/came out, there was a lot of cynicism about the game, since the previous games were OoT/Majora's Mask, there was the Spaceworld demo showing a realistic Ganondorf and Link swordfight, and everyone wanted that style of Zelda. Wind Waker was the polar opposite, so it wasn't too well-received back then. Nowadays, no one criticizes it for that reason, and almost everyone agrees that it's a fantastic game, as most Zelda games are, but some people blow it up to be this perfect, amazing gem, leading them to exaggerate Ganondorf's (still unprecedented) characterization, among other things.

The game is unfinished. Majora's Mask got away with four dungeons because it was developed in like 18 months on a dare, but Wind Waker only has 6. There were supposed to be more, but they were cut, which is why there's only two dungeons in the beginning and two regular dungeons in the second half of the game, as opposed to the typical three. In the original version, this was made worse by the Triforce search at the end that was just a really grueling fetch quest. It's cut down and revised in the HD version, at least, but compared to Ocarina of Time and Twilight Princess, the game is rather lacking in core content.

The combat also isn't a substantial upgrade from its predecessors. It adds a new "parry attack" feature where if you wait for your enemy to strike, you'll get a prompt to press the A button and automatically roll around or jump over them and land an attack. It's fun to use, but completely automatic, so it doesn't really add any depth. It's a precursor to the Hidden Skills found in Twilight Princess, or the timed dodge attack in Breath of the Wild, but nothing too remarkable. What is worthy of note is how music notes play for each hit during combat in a subtle way that makes fights a bit more dramatic, which is something no other game has done to my knowledge.

Overall, it's definitely a great game and worth a playthrough. But many people overhype it too much, perhaps to compensate for the unfair criticisms it got back in the day. I still go back and replay it every now and then, like I do all Zelda games. If you like the other Zelda games, you'll enjoy this one, too.

For reference, here's my personal Top 3 3D Zelda games:

1. Twilight Princess
2. Majora's Mask
3. Breath of the Wild

I can't tell whether I like Ocarina of Time or Wind Waker more, hence why I cut it off at 3, since I'm at least certain in my ranking of those. I still haven't really played Skyward Sword, though from what I have played and what I've heard from others, I don't think it'd shake up my list any.
May you please make an analysis on why you like Twilight Princess so much?
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I am going to say this, but without Brawl, I do not think Ultimate would have been as balanced as it is now.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
Ya'know he's not evhaveen a 'bad' character.

Its just why give him a rifle he never uses?



Put 'em in smash Chain chomp is my favorite Mario enemy.
It's kind of funny how prevalent Mario references are in Zelda. Chain Chomps, Goombas, Cheep Cheeps, Bloobers (literally just Bloopers), Lakitus, Bob-ombs, Bombites (similar to Bob-ombs), Piranha Plants, Thwomps (in many forms), Pokeys, Boo Buddies (basically Boos) and Mamu (essentially Wart) are all examples of references to Mario examples. I might have missed some, but these are a majority.

Then, the Cucco Keeper from Link's Awakening looks like Luigi (or just is). In ALttP, the Bug Catching Kid's house has a painting of Mario for some reason. In Castle Courtyard (Hyrule Castle) in the original OoT, paintings of Mario, Luigi, Peach, Yoshi ( Zinith Zinith ) and Bowser can be seen through the window, although the remake changed it to a classic Mario level.

Malon in OoT has a pin of Bowser on her, and Talon and Ingo obviously look like Mario and Luigi. Finally, Deku Babas clearly look like Piranha Plants.

Nintendo really loves their cameos and references, but I'm not surprised.

If you had to hire one of the Smashers as your personal bodyguard, who would you hire and why?
Link, of course. He gets to snipe for free. Greninja also gets to Shadow Sneak for free.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
May you please make an analysis on why you like Twilight Princess so much?
well for me it's M I D N A
Also it was like, a perfected OoT for me and I looooved OoT so this was nice

It's like the "quintessential" 3D Zelda, like the most basic "Zelda formula" game without any major gimmicks like motion controls (at least for the non-Wii versions)

It was literally just a better OoT and that's just great
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
24,013
Ohh, thank you!

What if :ultsnake: eats the dog, the duck and the sharp shooter though?
Then I'll need a yoga instructor to make sure he burns all these calories.

True but what matters now may always matter in the future.



I wasn't saying that. I was saying it strange that they chose to represent him with a thing he barely uses.

That's like showing :ultlucina: with a spear but still keeping her the exact same.

Its visually confusing.

That's not meant to offend it just genuinely makes no sense.
  1. It differentiates him from Pit
  2. He uses it
  3. Looks cool
Lucina doesn't use a spear in Smash. I don't get what's so confusing, it's just something that adds flavor to his render like Ganondorf's sword in Melee- oh wait, people made a huge deal out of it, too.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
As someone who mains both Samus and Dark Samus, I am grateful about Echo fighters being a thing.

While they may not have a unique moveset ignoring cases like Ken's, they at least prove that Sakurai tried his best to add characters who the fans requested a lot as fighters in any possible form.

And it's better than having a case similar to Alph's who doesn't even have an amiibo just for being Olimar's alt (who at the same time isn't a DLC fighter, and those ones got amiibo of their alts too).


Seeing Sakurai doing its best to please the requests from the fans in any way is great.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I have an embarrassing secret, but I have not played any other LoZ game than BoTW.
( Please do not hold up your torches and pitchforks. )
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member

Guest
As someone who mains both Samus and Dark Samus, I am grateful about Echo fighters being a thing.

While they may not have a unique moveset ignoring cases like Ken's, they at least prove that Sakurai tried his best to add characters who the fans requested a lot as fighters in any possible form.

And it's better than having a case similar to Alph's who doesn't even have an amiibo just for being Olimar's alt (who at the same time isn't a DLC fighter, and those ones got amiibo of their alts too).


Seeing Sakurai doing its best to please the requests from the fans in any way is great.
As someone who lost it for Dark Samus and got more excited for her than Ridley, I am very happy Echoes are a thing.

Also, great to see another DS main. That's some top tier taste ya got there.:ultdarksamus:
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
If you had to hire one of the Smashers as your personal bodyguard, who would you hire and why?
Palutena because she's a literal ****ing goddess
Bayonetta is a close second because she's also super ****ing strong
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Kirby has infinite power though.
Can Kirby beat Saitama and Goku though?
Yeah but Palutena can watch over you from anywhere anytime, right?
If Kirby loses focus because he sees like a tasty cake or something then I'd just be ****ed if someone like tries to shoot me
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
We talking Zelda? Because if so, Breath of The Wild is my favorite, followed by Majora's Mask and A Link Between Worlds.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Yeah but Palutena can watch over you from anywhere anytime, right?
If Kirby loses focus because he sees like a tasty cake or something then I'd just be ****ed if someone like tries to shoot me
True, but what if Kirby did not lose focus. 1 v 1.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I also wanted to note that you will most likely see 3 Chain Chomps in Link's Awakening. BowWow, YipYip, and an unnamed one, respectively.



I want to see those 3D renders/models.
This reminds me that Link’s Awakening also features Prince Richard. I wonder if he’ll be in the remake, but it would be pretty cool to see both Sable and Richard get HD models. Same with Wart.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
No one is praising Skyward Sword, and I thought the game had a certain charm to it.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member

Guest
If the Link's Awakening remake adds new guest appearances of Nintendo characters, I would love to see any Metroid being an enemy.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
As someone who mains both Samus and Dark Samus, I am grateful about Echo fighters being a thing.

While they may not have a unique moveset ignoring cases like Ken's, they at least prove that Sakurai tried his best to add characters who the fans requested a lot as fighters in any possible form.

And it's better than having a case similar to Alph's who doesn't even have an amiibo just for being Olimar's alt (who at the same time isn't a DLC fighter, and those ones got amiibo of their alts too).


Seeing Sakurai doing its best to please the requests from the fans in any way is great.
Echos are nice because it lets me choose between fire Marth and hot dad bod Marth at will, depending on whether or not my opponent can easily edgeguard me using some cheese (like Ness D-Smash near ledge)
 
Last edited by a moderator:

Gyrom8

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 21, 2018
Messages
2,795
Location
over dere
Switch FC
SW-4844-4242-3130
I have an embarrassing secret, but I have not played any other LoZ game than BoTW.
( Please do not hold up your torches and pitchforks. )
No need to be embarrassed (I've never played a Final Fantasy game)

Though BoTW admittedly would be a strange game to introduce someone to the series with, as it's very different from the others structure-wise. I could imagine that playing the other games afterwards might feel a little restrictive. If you're looking to play more Zelda games in general, A Link to the Past or Ocarina of Time are probably the best place to start.
 
Last edited:

Diem

Agent of Phaaze
Joined
Jun 16, 2018
Messages
1,744
Location
Agon Wastes
NNID
Luminoth_Prime
May you please make an analysis on why you like Twilight Princess so much?
Is that because you love the game too and want to have those feelings corroborated, or because you hate the game and want to see why someone would consider it #1? :p

I've actually been planning on doing a video analysis/essay about it, since I've noticed over the years that Twilight Princess gets a lot of hate for some reason. I remember coming across a fairly popular Zelda YouTuber one day, and the first video I watched had a sideways comment less than a minute in about how Twilight Princess has no personality. And in a high-rated YouTube comment under a Majora's Mask OST, I once saw someone say that TP was like the Christopher Nolan Batman movies in that, compared to Majora's Mask, there was no levity and it was all just dark and gritty. Because apparently they forgot about the snowboarding yetis, the monkey you fight by slashing its huge butt, talking to golden chickens, sumo wrestling, bug collecting, etc.

But I'm not too confident in my speaking abilities for videos after my most recent attempt from a couple months ago. I don't have a whole lot of experience. So I could substantiate my feelings in text here and now like I just did with Wind Waker--I've got another hour at work to kill--but I try to be self-conscious of my long posts and avoid filling people's screens with walls of text.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
24,013
Echos are nice because it lets me choose between fire Marth and hot dad bod Marth at will, depending on whether or not my opponent can easily edgeguard me using some cheese (like Ness D-Smash near ledge)
Echos were just a cover for putting hotter versions of characters to the game, prove me wrong.
 

Iridium

Smash Hero
Joined
Mar 17, 2018
Messages
8,445
This reminds me that Link’s Awakening also features Prince Richard. I wonder if he’ll be in the remake, but it would be pretty cool to see both Sable and Richard get HD models. Same with Wart.
Interesting that Chain Chomp are the most frequent Mario enemy, having appeared in four games (five if you count Hyrule Warriors). ALttP, Link's Awakening, Four Swords and Four Swords Adventures. I think someone on the team really likes them.

No one is praising Skyward Sword, and I thought the game had a certain charm to it.
Yeah, it's great. Also, Ghirahim. That's all.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Zelda Tier List:
S Tier: Breath of The Wild
A Tier: Majora's Mask, A Link Between Worlds, Ocarina of Time, A Link To The Past, Skyward Sword
B Tier: Link's Awakening, The Minish Cap, Twilight Princess
C Tier: Spirit Tracks, Oracle Games, Four Swords Adventure, Zelda 2
D Tier: The Wind Waker, Zelda 1
F Tier: Phantom Hourglass
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member

Guest
honestly i find it hilarious how marth might actually be the worst of the marthlikes this time around
w3hUyFC.gif
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Zelda Tier List:
S Tier: Breath of The Wild
A Tier: Majora's Mask, A Link Between Worlds, Ocarina of Time, A Link To The Past, Skyward Sword
B Tier: Link's Awakening, The Minish Cap, Twilight Princess
C Tier: Spirit Tracks, Oracle Games, Four Swords Adventure, Zelda 2
D Tier: The Wind Waker, Zelda 1
F Tier: Phantom Hourglass
I love how the CDi titles and Hyrule Warriors aren't present.
 

osby

Smash Obsessed
Joined
Apr 25, 2018
Messages
24,013
Is that because you love the game too and want to have those feelings corroborated, or because you hate the game and want to see why someone would consider it #1? :p

I've actually been planning on doing a video analysis/essay about it, since I've noticed over the years that Twilight Princess gets a lot of hate for some reason. I remember coming across a fairly popular Zelda YouTuber one day, and the first video I watched had a sideways comment less than a minute in about how Twilight Princess has no personality. And in a high-rated YouTube comment under a Majora's Mask OST, I once saw someone say that TP was like the Christopher Nolan Batman movies in that, compared to Majora's Mask, there was no levity and it was all just dark and gritty. Because apparently they forgot about the snowboarding yetis, the monkey you fight by slashing its huge butt, talking to golden chickens, sumo wrestling, bug collecting, etc.

But I'm not too confident in my speaking abilities for videos after my most recent attempt from a couple months ago. I don't have a whole lot of experience. So I could substantiate my feelings in text here and now like I just did with Wind Waker--I've got another hour at work to kill--but I try to be self-conscious of my long posts and avoid filling people's screens with walls of text.
This "remotely dark atmosphere equals bad" mentality kills me. Not every game needs to be buried under saturation to be good and half of the people don't know what they are talking about when they call a game edgy.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Echos were just a cover for putting hotter versions of characters to the game, prove me wrong.
:ultrichter::ultdaisy::ultken::ultchrom:you might be onto somethi-
:ultlucina: hmm well idk i'll take this into consideratio-
:ultdarksamus:
tenor.gif
 
Last edited by a moderator:
D

Deleted member

Guest
Are the Fire Emblem swordsman the shoto clones of Smash? You’ve got Marth as Ryu, the fairly boring but reliable one who started it all, Roy as Ken, the fiery version with a play style focused on rushdown, and Lucina as Sakura, the fan girl of the main one who tries to emulate them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom